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Haley Campaign Announces $24 Million Haul In Q4; Harvard President Resigns Amid Firestorm Of Controversy; Feud Between Jimmy Kimmel And Aaron Rodgers Escalates. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired January 03, 2024 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:30:00]

EVA MCKEND, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: She's short -- sort of is not concrete in her responses. Nonetheless, though, there is a lot of momentum for her here on the ground. Governor Sununu, a bit of an opening act for her, and he has boundless energy.

So, she will take part in three campaign stops today across the state, again, appealing to voters here in New Hampshire. Telling them that if she were to defy expectations, win this Republican nomination, that she would be the best person to confront President Biden in the fall, John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Eva McKend for us in Kingston, New Hampshire. Eva, keep us posted. Thank you very much.

RAHEL SOLOMON, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Let's continue the conversation now. With me now is CNN political analyst and White House reporter for The Associated Press Seung Min Kim. Also joining us is Sophia Cai, national politics reporter for Axios. Good to see you both, ladies.

Sophia, let me start with you. This news that Nikki Haley more than doubling her fundraising with a $24 million haul in the past three months, and it also included so many new donors. So, not just more money, but new people -- new donors. What does that signal to you?

SOPHIA CAI, NATIONAL POLITICS REPORTER, AXIOS: It means that she has even more of a runway, and she can do things like really focus her in- person time in New Hampshire and continue to advertise in Iowa as she has been. And so, that gives her you know, even more momentum but also expectation with voters, as well as people across the state in Iowa, in New Hampshire, and nationally. And so, you know, it says she continues to be someone to watch, someone to make the case that she's the best alternative to former President Trump.

SOLOMON: Seung Min, let me bring you in. I'm not sure if you've heard Eva's report there. But two things stood out to me. One is that voters were asking her questions about China, about monetary policy, real issues. I mean, does that suggest that they're still shopping around?

They're so open to changing their minds. But also, that comment from the voter that he didn't like that she didn't answer his question directly. How much of an obstacle is that going to be for her if that's the impression that voters seem to have? SEUNG MIN KIM, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: First of all, I think early state voters definitely are continuing to shop around. This was a poll last month. There's a little bit old from the Des Moines Register in Iowa, but they said 46 percent of likely caucus-goers were not set on a candidate.

I'm sure that number has gone down a little bit in a couple of weeks since. But we still do have some time before the Iowa and New Hampshire contests. So certainly, this is why you see these big crowds show up at these events.

They want to get to know the candidate more and they want to, you know, hear all of them out before they make their final choice later this month. Now, when it comes to what the voters said. I think that's kind of one of the weaknesses that her opponents have tried to latch on to. That a lot of times that she doesn't give a direct answer.

For example, she doesn't give a direct answer about whether she would or would not be Donald Trump's vice president should he make her that offer. She's been very careful. Nikki Haley has been very disciplined on the campaign trail.

But I think sometimes voters can feel that that comes at the expense of being candid. And that is something that certainly these voters who have an upfront look at all of these candidates, it's certainly something that they crave.

SOLOMON: Sophia, what do you make of this news that Tom Emmer is now endorsing -- drawing his support behind Trump that, of course, follows Steve Scalise, the -- yesterday? I mean, you essentially have now all of House GOP leadership throwing their support behind Trump. It says something. What does it say?

CAI: Yes. I mean, I think look, it says that he's absolutely in the lead. I think the expectation for him is very high.

You know, he needs to go into Iowa. He's got all of the House Republicans behind him as well, as you know, a couple of dozen senators. I mean, that is -- those are numbers that show that he is expected to win Iowa by 20 -- 30 points and that if he falls short of those expectations, then that gives room for someone like Nikki Haley or Ron DeSantis, depending on who comes second to say, look, Trump underperformed. And that gives me a space.

SOLOMON: Seung Min, on the issue of immigration, Trump just wrote an op-ed in the Des Moines Register where he in part promised to be tough on immigration. He promised to be tough on deportations, to increase funding, target cartels and gangs. Is this a winning issue for Trump?

KIM: I think with the primary electorate, it certainly could be. If you look -- if you talk to Republican primary voters, if you talk to polls, you see that border security and immigration are always at the top of that issue list for Republicans, which is why you hear not only -- not only Donald Trump but obviously the other candidates in the field and congressional Republicans talk about the issues so much. They know this is something that is very critical for their voters. But if you figure -- if you've kind of looking ahead to the general election, this is an issue that even though President Biden faces a lot of challenges, both political and substantive challenges when it comes to the border, the Biden campaign feels that they can really go on the offensive when it comes to Trump immigration. Because they're already reminding voters of the hardline policies that Donald Trump pushed and -- pushed hard in his administration.

They say that as a country that voters do not want. And they're eager to make that contrast if and when they are the two general election candidates.

[11:35:07]

SOLOMON: Sophia, Seung Min made the point that primary voters are so absolutely shopping around. Steve King, the nine-term former Republican Representative from Iowa who has a history of racist rhetoric. He endorsed Vivek Ramaswamy for president in his home state. And when pressed about getting this endorsement, here's what Ramaswamy said.

Actually, we don't have the sound. But in the past when he has been asked about this issue of race, he has sort of -- he has sort of implied that this issue of white supremacy -- this premise of white supremacy is a farce, I believe is his word. So, let me ask, Sophia. I mean, how many Iowans are still listening to Steve King, and thoughts about this endorsement?

CAI: Yes. I mean, look, Steve King is a former member of Congress from Iowa. So, you know, there's certainly a handful of Iowans who recognize his name, know who he is, but I think the endorsement really shows you the sort of people that Vivek Ramaswamy is trying to appeal to. You know, he is really swinging to the right. Right of Ron DeSantis, definitely to the right of Nikki Haley to appeal for a -- from the MAGA base.

And so, the voters that he is trying to strip off is definitely coming from Trump to the extent that he can get them. And so an endorsement like Steve King, which by the way, is someone that he's been campaigned within Iowa for several months now, you know, that endorsement, that shows us that, you know, Vivek Ramaswamy is doing anything he can to stay in the race, and really, frankly, to make news.

SOLOMON: Seung Min Kim, Sophia Cai, thank you both. And Ron DeSantis and Nikki Haley take questions directly from Iowa voters in back-to- back town halls. The CNN Republican presidential town halls moderated by Kaitlan Collins and Erin Burnett, live tomorrow night starting at 9:00 p.m. on CNN.

BERMAN: Former Harvard President Claudine Gay stepped down from a role at the university after intense scrutiny over her handling of antisemitism on campus and allegations of plagiarism. Now, protests are planned in support of her. She was the first black female president of Harvard. Plus, a feud between Jimmy Kimmel and Aaron Rodgers. Why one is threatening the other with possible legal action? This is about possible defamation and libel.

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[11:41:34]

BERMAN: New fallout this morning after Harvard President Claudine Gay resigned after six months on the job. This follows controversy over her response to questions about antisemitism on campus and an ongoing plagiarism scandal. Reverend Al Sharpton announced he and the National Action Network planned to picket outside of billionaire Bill Ackman's office tomorrow in protest of what they call the relentless campaign against Gay. Ackman was a Harvard alum and was a vocal critic of hers.

With us now is Charlie Covit, a Harvard student and member of Harvard Hillel. Charlie, thanks so much for being with us. What do you think the tipping point here was? What do you think it was looking at this that finally caused Claudine Gay to resign?

CHARLIE COVIT, STUDENT, HARVARD: Yes, thank you for having me on, John. I mean, I think that eventually, the plagiarism accusations probably the dam broke at some point. And it was just too much for -- too much reputational damage to the institution and for its students for her to stay on.

But I think it's also important, as she said in her letter, that now that she is gone for the focus to return to the actual university, rather than any one individual. And hopefully, we can go back to what actually precipitated all of this, which is really an epidemic of antisemitism at Harvard.

BERMAN: What does it matter? What does a college president matter to a college student? There are plenty of college students that I know, or I remember from my time in college, who probably couldn't even name who was a university president was.

COVIT: Yes. I mean, it's been pretty fascinating to see how much focus there's been on Harvard's president. I mean, just the other day, you know, one of the senior members of Hamas was assassinated in Lebanon. And this is higher on the headlines than that, which is pretty surreal when you think about it.

I think that Claudine came into a lot of different things to different people. And conversations on campus about her have really been quite charged. I mean, on the one hand, you have those saying that she was never qualified, and that she -- you know, she really never should have been president in the first place because you know, she's never written a book and things like that. Really, sort of personal attacks on her.

And on the other side, you heard people saying that these are kind of racially motivated attacks on Harvard's first black president. So, it's really become a conversation, I think, not just about the role of the presidency, but so many of these sorts of culture war, and social issues that have really, I think, been heating up on our campus, both this year and in past years as well.

BERMAN: Why do you think -- why do you think the rest of the country is so fascinated by it? Why should the country care who Harvard's president is?

COVIT: I mean, I think, clearly, Harvard has some symbolism, right? I think in many ways, it represents higher education. And I think that what we've seen in -- at Harvard in the last few months is to be disappointing.

I mean, you know, there is a solid contingent at our school that is pretty, I think, obsessed with Israel, really obsessed with demonizing the Jewish state, and I think kind of in parallel, you have this crisis where the president of Harvard to many didn't seem as though she actually should have been there. It seemed to some as though she was selected, more sort of from a DEI perspective than from her actual qualifications. And so, I think that in many ways, it's kind of a microcosm of so much of what America is debating right now.

I mean, issues around the war in Israel, racial justice, all of that. But again, you know, for a lot of students, it certainly is emotional. And I think that Claudine Gay was sort of an inspiration to a lot of people who saw her as the first black president of, you know, America's oldest university.

BERMAN: What do you want to see as qualities in the next president of the university? By the way, I'm sure that the president won't be named. You may be long gone by the time they named the next president. But who do you want to see? What type of president?

COVIT: Yes. I mean, you know -- yes. I mean, it's true. I mean, hopefully, you know, Harvard will kind of slow down. I mean, Claudian Gay's selection was the fastest in I believe 70 years. So hopefully, the university will take some time to think about not just what it wants that of the next president, but out of the next administration and the university, really, in general in the next few years.

I mean, I hope that there'll be a return to you know, hopefully, maybe stepping away from making political statements and wading into such charged issues, but also really recentering the issue of antisemitism on our campus. I mean, you know, Harvard -- a lot of Jews simply don't feel safe to be at Harvard, right now, you know. Harvard -- early applications to Harvard were down. Students from my school were asking me, who are considering applying, you know, is it safe for me to be a Jew at Harvard?

And I do think that that's a pretty alarming question for people to be asking in 2023 about, you know, America's best university. So, my hope is that the next president will really make clear that they're not going to stand for antisemitism and that Harvard once again, will be a place that's safe to be a Jew.

BERMAN: Charlie Covit, we appreciate your time. Thank you very much.

COVIT: Thank you. SOLOMON: All right, up next for us. Bad blood between Jimmy Kimmel and Aaron Rodgers. Why the late-night host is threatening legal action over some inflammatory comments from the NFL quarterback. We'll be right back.

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[11:50:31]

BERMAN: All right. Soon, a federal judge is expected to release the names of dozens of Jeffrey Epstein's alleged victims and associates. And now, comedian Jimmy Kimmel is threatening a lawsuit against New York Jets quarterback Aaron Rodgers for insinuating without any evidence at all, that Kimmel's name might be in those documents. This is what Rodgers said on a radio show.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AARON RODGERS, NEW YORK JETS QUARTERBACK: So, a lot of people including Jimmy Kimmel are really hoping that the list doesn't come out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Again, we didn't play to amplify it. We played it so you can see what was said here. Kimmel responded saying in part, for the record, I have not met, flown with, visited, or had any contact whatsoever with Epstein, nor will you find my name in any list other than the clearly phony nonsense, the soft brain wackos like yourself can't seem to distinguish from reality. Your reckless words put my family in danger. Keep it up, and we will debate the facts further in court.

Now, clearly, CNN, no one has any reporting that Kimmel is linked in any way to the Epstein case. There was some bad blood, it's notable, between Aaron Rodgers and Jimmy Kimmel because of jokes that Krimbal -- Kimmel had made criticizing Rodgers for pushing conspiracy theories.

Here now is CNN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney Joey Jackson. Joey, the reason I wanted you to want to talk about this was the issue of defamation. You know what Aaron Rodgers said has no basis, in fact, no evidence to support it. When does something like that become defamation?

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, John, an important question to be answered for sure. So, what happens is, remember what defamation is. It's a false statement that is injurious to someone's reputation. And as a result of that, it can cause the person great reputational damage.

When you talk about defamation as a relates to public figures as both Jimmy Kimmel and Aaron Rodgers are, you have to show what's called actual malice. What on earth does that mean? You have to show knowledge that you made the statement knowing it was false or just reckless disregard as to whether it was false or true. So, it's a very heightened standard. At the end of the day, though, I don't think it's yet ripe right for any defamation claims. Certainly, no one would want to be listed, talked about in the same sentence of, right, in terms of Epstein.

But when you talk about defamation, one, defense is absolute truth. If in the event it's true, it may be a terrible thing that someone said. But you know what, it's not defamatory. The list hasn't been published yet.

And so, you know, we'll see not to suggest at all that anybody's name whether it be Kimmel or Aaron Rodgers would be on that list at all. But you know, it's not right yet to the extent that when the list is published, everyone will get to see for themselves who specifically you know, is on it, John, and who's not.

BERMAN: When Jimmy Kimmel, as he says, his name is not on that list, does it then become a legal issue that Aaron Rodgers said it without any basis, apparently whatsoever?

JACKSON: So, here's the issue with that, right? Remember that if defamation is to end your reputation, certainly you shouldn't be saying anything right, that is injurious to anyone, whether they be public figures, private figures, or anything else. The problem with defamation in that regard, though, John is as follows.

Let's just say he's not on the list. That is Jimmy Kimmel was not on the list as he suggests he would never be on such a list. Then, the world would know that this is just a bad-blood argument. And you can argue then, if you're Jimmy Kimmel, that it's injurious to your reputation because, in essence, you're cleared as a result of a list being published to show that you're not on it. So, I don't see any reputational damage there.

As you mentioned at the outset, there's no love lost between them. Kimmel has made some jokes about Aaron Rodgers that he has not appreciated, including how he's worn that is on Rodgers' hair. And so, they've gone back and forth. And I think the public may just take that as this and not anything in terms of, you know, mean-spirited or to rise to the level. Well, you can argue it's mean-spirited, but to rise to the level of defamation, you know. Sorry.

BERMAN: Jimmy Kimmel in his social media statement didn't point out, if you continue this basically, I will see you in court. So, if Aaron Rodgers were to say anything else, how would that contribute to possible legal jeopardy or civil liability?

JACKSON: Yes, sure. So, would depend upon what is said, right, ultimately, at the end of the day, right? And you have to look at everything in context, I think the argument will be made, right?

The context of this, of course, is that Jimmy Kimmel when he makes his comments and statements, it's comedic in nature. Not to suggest comedians can injure someone, they certainly can, particularly when you have a platform like him. So too, Aaron Rogers has a tremendous platform, and you have to be careful about what you say. [11:55:09]

And so, to the extent that there is no such list that includes Jimmy Kimmel, and Aaron Rodgers would continue to -- continue to propagate that, now it could rise to the level because he's not there that it's now alive. Remember what defamation is, just a reset, right, false statement that is injurious to your reputation. You keep repeating something -- you keep repeating something, guess what, in this world, John, people get to believe it's true.

Now, you may have a cause of action. But I just think it's a feud between two people who probably have had enough of each other.

BERMAN: Joey Jackson, we appreciate it. Thank you very much.

JACKSON: Yes.

SOLOMON: John, for the record, I could never have enough of you know. always good to work with you.

BERMAN: I think this is a great thing because it kept making you sit next to me, you know. And I know it's a sacrifice. So, thank you very much.

SOLOMON: It has been a pleasure. And thank you for joining us. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL. "INSIDE POLITICS" is coming up next.

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