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Blinken Arrives In Middle East As Fears Rise Of Wider Conflict; Today: Biden and Trump On The Campaign Trail; IA Shooter Believed To Have Posted TikTok Video From School Bathroom. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired January 05, 2024 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:30:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Wider region. With us now is retired Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt. He's also a former assistant secretary of state for political and military affairs under President George W. Bush. And Max Boot, Senior Fellow on the Council of Foreign Relations, and a columnist at the Washington Post.

Gentlemen, we say that Antony Blinken is there to keep the conflict between Israel and Hamas from spreading. But just to review, where we've seen real-life fighting in the last several days. Obviously, you have the situation in Gaza.

There's conflict in the West Bank. You have the attack on Hamas official -- killing the Hamas official in Beirut. You have the conflict in the Red Sea with the U.S. and the Houthi squaring off in ships there.

We have the U.S. strike on a pro-Iranian militia group in Baghdad. And then over here in Iran, you have the dual explosions at the tomb of Qasem Soleimani. So, you can see there is already extreme tension over the whole region, Max. Is this bad enough, or could it get even worse?

MAX BOOT, COLUMNIST, THE WASHINGTON POST: Oh, it could easily get worse, John. I mean, I think what Tony Blinken and the administration, in general, are trying to do is to keep a lid on this thing. Keep it from just bursting out of control, which could very easily do.

Now, I think the good news is that neither the U.S. nor Iran has any desire to engage in a full-scale war. And I don't think -- I don't think Iran wants a full-scale war with Israel either, which is why Lebanese Hezbollah is not mounting an all-out offensive on Israel. But the bad news is, of course, as we have many examples throughout history of where you get into these tit-for-tat incidents, and all of a sudden, a situation can spiral out of control, and you wind up with a war that nobody wants.

And we are in real danger of seeing that at this moment. I think the administration is trying to walk a tightrope. On the one hand, they're trying to keep this war from expanding. They are trying to keep, you know, hostilities at a low level.

But at the same time, they don't want to give Iran and its proxies permission or a pass to attack the U.S. or our allies in the region, which they have been doing if their attacks on shipping into the Red Sea, with attacks on U.S. installations in Iraq and Syria. And so, they're trying to push back and deter Iran without triggering a major conflict. And that's very difficult to do.

BERMAN: Yes. Picking up on something that Max just said there, General, I left out Syria here. Because since October 7, there have been more than one hundred attacks on U.S. personnel stationed in both Iraq and Syria here. And, of course, again, we just saw this week this US response drone attack on a pro-Iranian militia leader inside Baghdad. How would you assess the U.S. response to these attacks?

BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT (RET), U.S. ARMY: Well, first of all, I think the U.S. is doing a halfway decent job responding to some of these attacks. But I'm still baffled by this attack yesterday in Iraq. If we're trying to prevent a conflict there and you know protect our soldiers and diplomats there, that's the worst way of going around it.

We sort of slap the racket in the face by attacking a pro-Iranian militia group on the day that they were celebrating -- mourning the loss of Qasem Soleimani a few years prior. So, again, if we're trying to avoid war, I don't understand how we're trying to provoke more conflict inside of Iraq. And even worse, we now have the government of Iraq threatening and probably will follow through with this threat to throw Americans out.

And if they throw Americans out -- the American military out of Iraq, our entire operations against ISIS in Syria ends. And then, of course, we can see not only a conventional threat growing but now we're bringing ISI back into the fight.

BERMAN: We can see how all of these conflicts are connected. I want to talk about what's going on in Gaza. The Israeli Defense Minister just said that we could see a change in approach to Israeli operations over the coming days and weeks. Perhaps, a new combat approach that would include raids on terror hotspots.

And the IDF released this video from Central Gaza, which they say shows Hamas terrorists running into a structure here. And then you see the targeting from the air of that structure. Max, do you think this represents a new approach? How likely do you think this is to be effective?

BOOT: Well, there are signals that Israel is changing their approach, that they're trying to wind down the major combat phase of the operation and transition to a lower intensity operation where they're targeting individual terrorists, rather than just, you know, leveling entire neighborhoods. Whether that actually comes to pass or not, very hard to say. I mean, the war has been going on for more than three months already, and Israel still has not been able to accomplish its aim of destroying Hamas.

And all indications are it will take many more months of military action on the part of Israel to achieve that if it's even -- if it's even achievable. So, you know, I think they're -- they are making some moves partly to reduce civilian casualties, partly to release some Israeli reserves so they can go back to civilian life. But whether this was going to be a truly major shift in the operation, or whether this is more aspirational at this phase, I think very much remains to be determined.

[11:35:20]

BERMAN: General, the State Department just announced a $10 million reward for help in disrupting the Hamas financial operations -- global financial operations. How important do you think that is in the battle against Hamas?

KIMMITT: Well, I think the important thing to understand is that if you want to defeat a terrorist organization, it can't just be done with boots on the ground. It has to go through the entire spectrum of anti-Hamas operations. Whether it's boots on the ground, whether it's going against their financing sources, going against their enablers indirectly, and going against their sources -- resources, such as logistics and supply.

So, I think as you take a more comprehensive approach, that's the way to go. But I would -- I would also add to Max's point. While we may be seeing a transition to our getting high-value targets up in Gaza, and for that matter inside of Lebanon, there's still a full-fledged fight going on in front of units.

So, while things are slowing down in Gaza, they are not slowing down in terms of their operational pace and their operational style since October 7 down Khan Yunis.

BERMAN: Khan Yunis, right here in sort of Southern Gaza. Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt, Max Boot, thanks to both of you. Sara.

BOOT: Thank you.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: It was a good conversation, John. There are disturbing new details emerging about the teenager accused now of killing another student and wounding others in an Iowa School shooting that we brought you yesterday. Why authorities are now taking a closer look at his social media?

Plus, Donald Trump makes an appearance in Iowa tonight, just as President Biden prepares to deliver his big speech that Donald Trump is a threat to American democracy. We're live on the campaign trail. We'll have all that coming up.

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[11:41:12]

BERMAN: Huge day on the campaign trail today. Very shortly, President Biden will begin his 2024 push with what his campaign is billing as a major speech at Valley Forge -- near Valley Forge in Pennsylvania, the historic Revolutionary War site. And the theme will be the "Donald Trump Is A Threat To Democracy." He will be talking about the perils of U.S. democracy.

Donald Trump. He will be in Iowa today campaigning. And this follows, of course, the duel town halls between Nikki Haley and Ron DeSantis right here on CNN.

CNN's Chief National Affairs Correspondent Jeff Zeleny is outside what will be, I am told, the Ron DeSantis event in Iowa. Jeff, what are you seeing today?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: John, we're seeing all the candidates back on the campaign trail, as you said. And the Florida Governor will take the stage momentarily here. And he's really sharpening his argument against former President Donald Trump.

He's been saying some of the same things and answers to questions. But last night on center stage in prime time, he made the argument that he says Donald Trump simply is not electable. Really, warning Republicans to consider their options very carefully here.

But, John, he's doing something more than that. He's really going after the character and integrity of the former president. We're hearing that here again this morning as well.

He's campaigning with a couple of members of Congress. And Texas Congressman Chip Roy just said a few moments ago, consider the character and integrity of Donald Trump. So, these personal qualifications really have not been explored nearly as much.

So, in the final days of this campaign, what DeSantis and Nikki Haley are trying to do is A., convince some of those undecided voters why they should support them, and perhaps also peel away some of Donald Trump's supporters. That may be more difficult to do, of course. But, John, as you said, President Biden also on the campaign trail.

That raises the larger question of electability. Is Donald Trump an asset to the party or is he not? It's been a question that has been sort of in the ether -- in the air all year long. There's no answer to it, of course, at the moment.

But DeSantis is really reminding voters that next year, there'll be so many legal cases -- or this year, rather, so many legal cases, so many courtroom exchanges happening, is that what the party wants? So, all of this coming together here on the eve of the anniversary of January 6. It certainly puts this 2024 election into a very sharp focus, John.

BERMAN: Really interesting that Chip Roy at this DeSantis event behind you is starting to talk about character in the presidential candidates. It will be very interesting to see if Ron DeSantis continues that as he takes that stage. Following the CNN town hall last night, where really for the first time, you saw Trump's opponents leaning in in a substantial way trying to run directly against Donald Trump.

Terrific report. Jeff Zeleny, thank you so much.

SIDNER: And here to discuss all of this. CNN political analyst, historian, and professor at Princeton University. Julian Zelizer. Why, Julian, I have talked to you. I don't know how many times. And my tongue is just twisted. It's coming to the end of the show.

JULIAN ZELIZER, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: It's OK.

SIDNER: I do want to ask you something. Is it too late? We are 10 days from the caucuses in Iowa.

And just now, you're really seeing DeSantis and Haley to some degree, really going after Donald Trump in a way we really haven't seen so much before. But we're so close. People, have they made up their minds pretty much?

ZELIZER: I think the odds are very low that you're going to have big shifts between now and Iowa. Haley is certainly thinking of New Hampshire, and probably DeSantis as well. And I think this is a setup for the next competition where there's a little more time.

But again, the numbers still show that the former president is overwhelmingly in the lead, and far ahead of them.

SIDNER: I do want to talk about something we did not hear from Ron DeSantis. He started out this whole campaign about wokeness. And, you know, all these sorts of -- I don't know, social issues that he saw as something like Transgender Health Care bands and woke-ism.

[11:45:17]

But he did talk about abortion this time. And pointed out something that distinguished him in some ways from Donald Trump, especially in a state like Iowa. Well, this work because evangelical voters are such a high number of those who are going to go to the caucuses, go to the polls.

ZELIZER: Well, he's desperately trying to find something to distinguish himself and to define himself as an alternative, who's still most loyal to the conservative base. But I think many evangelical voters are still willing to go with former President Trump and believe that with the Supreme Court and other Federal Court appointments, he delivered what they wanted. And the Dobbs decision was, in many ways, a product of the Trump presidency, and they will not forget that.

SIDNER: But in many states, including in Florida that just happened this morning, there is an abortion rights group that has said, look, we're going to try -- we have signatures. We're going to try to get a constitutional amendment on the ballot. Those amendments have been largely successful in places like Kansas. So, is this really what the voters want to hear, or could this be a stumbling block for him too?

ZELIZER: Oh, it could be a big one. Look, it might be what a large number of Republican caucus and primary voters want to hear. But it's pretty clear that in the general electorate, including in red states, this is not a popular issue.

So, come general election time, if there's one issue that might really drive Democratic turnout and hurt Republicans, reproductive rights is the issue. So, it's kind of -- it's a risky move. I think if the Republicans go all in on this question.

SIDNER: All right. Let's move to Nikki Haley. DeSantis was considered at the beginning, the most likely person to be able to beat Trump.

He was the one that Donald Trump's campaign focused on right from the beginning. But he's -- but he has not. He stumbled. He's not lived up to that.

It is Nikki Haley, who has really risen over these past months and gained momentum, especially in New Hampshire. She's focused on New Hampshire very, very strongly. And also, talked about her own state, although Donald Trump has the numbers there.

Here's what she said about -- she talked about Iowa and sort of a negative way that oh, you know, she's going to move on to New Hampshire. Here's what she said to try to clean that up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NIKKI HALEY, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And I trust you. I trust every single one of you. You know how to do this. You know, Iowa starts it. You know that you correct it. You know that you continue to go --

We banter against each other on different things. New Hampshire makes fun of Iowa. Iowa makes fun of South Carolina. It's what we do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: Is that line going to work? Because I think some people were offended by her sort of brushing off the Iowa thing. Well, I got New Hampshire.

ZELIZER: Yes. Voters are not always forgiving, especially in the competition between the different states at this part of the nomination process. She's made a couple of problematic statements from her statements about the Civil War, which didn't include slavery to this.

And part of it -- look, the media is now looking at her. It's focused on her. This is what comes with success.

And so, these mistakes can add up. But again, I don't think this is the big issue. The big issue for her is the fact that Trump is doing so well and might have a lead that is insurmountable barring a conviction in one of these trials that are going on.

SIDNER: Yes, and that's what the polling numbers tell us as well. Julian Zelizer, thank you so much for coming on this morning and explaining all that. And on Wednesday, just five days before the Iowa caucuses, which are in just 10 days, don't miss the "CNN Republican Presidential Debate" live from Iowa. Moderated by Jake Tapper and Dana Bash. It all starts January 10, 9:00 p.m. Eastern. Be here or be square.

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[11:53:07] SIDNER: We just learned months ago. One of the victims injured in Thursday's school shooting in Iowa is now out of the hospital. This news comes as authorities are digging into this shooter's social media for any ideas as to what triggered his deadly rampage at the high school in Perry, Iowa. Before the 17-year-old took his own life, he killed a sixth grader and wounded several other students and the school's principal.

CNN's Veronica Miracle is here now with details that you have just learned. Veronica, what are you hearing about the investigation?

VERONICA MIRACLE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Sara, a big part of what investigators are looking at right now is a potential motive. And part of that analysis is looking at the shooter's social media posts before the shooting, and also during. We're learning of a TikTok video that he posted from the bathroom posing next to a blue duffel bag with the caption, now we wait.

Just absolutely devastating. Also, what we're learning is what may have played a role, is bullying, according to some friends who spoke to ABC News. Take a listen to what they had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He got tired of the bullying. He got tired of the harassment.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We tried to be there when he needed us which clearly, we weren't for him enough.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MIRACLE: Those friends suggesting that may have been bullied since elementary school, Sara. And now, the shooting took place before school even began. It was the first day back from winter break around 7:30 in the morning where kids were gathered for a Breakfast Club when the first shots rang out.

At a vigil last night, CNN spoke to some individuals who were actually there when it happened. Take a listen to what they had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANGIE ORELLANA, PERRY HIGH SCHOOL FRESHMAN: At first, like the whole -- like a cafeteria went silent. And then like more shots like continued and everything just went into chaos. And I just saw like the principal started running, and like all my friends and I just got out of there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[11:55:08]

MIRACLE: Meanwhile, this community is mourning the loss of that sixth grader who was killed. Five others were also injured, four students and a faculty member. That faculty member according to his daughter was a principal here at Perry High School. He had to go into surgery but is in stable condition. All of those who are injured are expected to survive.

And posting on Facebook, the principal's daughter saying that he may have actually tried to save other lives by saying he tried to approach and talk Dylan, the shooter, down and distract him long enough for some students to get out. As many of you know Dad, he's a gentle giant and amazing dad and just an amazing person. The shooter died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound, Sara.

SIDNER: I got it. You know, Veronica, what stands out from your reporting is that young lady who's taken, it was friends with the shooter who really, really, really feels like she -- it's on her shoulders and it isn't. but what emotion and what heartache all of those students and teachers and faculty are going through. Veronica Miracle, thank you so much for your reporting.

BERMAN: And thank you all for joining us. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL. "INSIDE POLITICS" is up next.

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