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Hunter Biden Walks Out of House Committee Contempt Hearing; First Hearing on Mayorkas' Impeachment by House Panel; Interview with Congressional Ukraine Caucus Co-Chair Rep. Mike Quigley (D-IL); Funding Discussions Around Border Security and Assistance to Israel and Ukraine. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired January 10, 2024 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are you going to do when the House --

ABBE LOWELL, HUNTER BIDEN'S ATTORNEY: Last fall, Chairman Comer made an explicit offer that people like Hunter and had like him the option to attend a deposition or a public hearing, whichever they chose. Hunter chose a hearing where Republicans could not distort, manipulate, or misuse that testimony.

Honor and then ignoring that invitation and proving once again that they cared little about the truth and wanted only to, quote, move the needle of political support, which was a quote Chairman Comer confessed was his true purpose. The Republican chairs today then are commandeering an unprecedented resolution to hold someone in contempt who is offered to publicly answer all their proper questions. The question there is, what are they afraid of? Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Biden, why did you show up today, sir?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Biden, did you show up to testify?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why did you show up today?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Biden, why did you put your dad on speakerphone if he had nothing to do with your business? You put him on speakerphone multiple times to talk to your business partners. Why did you do that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't stop.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But why did you need to talk to him during business meetings if he had nothing to do with your business?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everybody stop. That's it. That's it. Let him through. Let him through.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN NEWS CENTRAL CO-ANCHOR: OK, what you have been watching, pure congressional mayhem. The House Oversight Committee was holding a hearing to find Hunter Biden in contempt of Congress for not agreeing to appear for a deposition. The thing is, Hunter Biden showed up at the hearing, apparently surprising all the Republicans, including the committee chair, and just set off a theatrical explosion. And you just saw Hunter Biden and his lawyer, Abbe Lowell, leaving that building right there. Quite a moment.

Melanie Zanona on Capitol Hill, you saw much of it. Explain what we just saw.

MELANIE ZANONA, CNN CAPITOL HILL REPORTER: Yes, well, Hunter Biden made a surprise appearance today in front of the House Oversight Committee which was about to recommend that he be referred to the Department of Justice for defying a subpoena and be held in contempt of Congress.

Now, a little bit of the backstory, Republicans have requested that Hunter Biden sit down for a closed-door deposition, but him and his lawyer have maintained time and time again that he would be willing to show up for a public hearing, and that he doesn't want his testimony to be selectively leaked by Republicans.

And today, him and his legal team made the point that he's here again today. He's willing to talk to Republicans. Democrats made the point that he is not scared of the committee. That he's willing to talk to them and basically trying to show that these contempt proceedings are without merit. But Republicans pushed back. It was a very contentious start to the hearing. You had Marjorie Taylor Greene and Nancy Mace really pushing back on his appearance. They said this was a disruption. They asked what the rules were. They said, this is just a political stunt from Hunter Biden. And Nancy Mace said he should be arrested here on the spot.

Now, Hunter Biden showed up. He was in the committee room for about, I would say, around 20 minutes. He was in the crowd. He did not speak going into the hearing room. He didn't answer questions from reporters. And then afterwards, his lawyer just gave a prepared statement. Hunter Biden did not really engage with reporters afterwards. But clearly, he is trying to make a point here, right?

He is trying to make the point that, once again, he is willing to speak to Republicans as long as it is in a public setting. And that is really what this contentious fight over the contempt proceedings boils down to. But it also comes amid this broader picture of House Republicans, really struggling to prove that President Biden either profited or made policy decisions because of his son's foreign business deals. They have made a centerpiece of their impeachment inquiry into the president. They have struggled, though, to provide any evidence, and so now they are moving ahead with contempt proceedings, which is going to be a showdown.

This is going to probably pass out of both the House Oversight Committee and out of the House Judiciary Committee. Then it will go to the full floor and then it's up to the DOJ to determine whether to prosecute. But again, the big picture here, it was absolute chaos. It was a circus and just another day, really, here on Capitol Hill, guys.

[10:35:00]

BERMAN: Look, we're used to drama on Capitol Hill. That was unscripted drama right there in the, sort of, bad reality show genre.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN NEWS CENTRAL CO-ANCHOR: That doesn't count -- I don't remember that happening. The -- we're going to -- we're going to hold -- not even a contempt hearing. But we're going to hold a hearing specifically about one person who they say hasn't showed up. And then they show up. I don't remember this -- anything like this happening. Clearly, they were surprised.

SARA SIDNER, CNN NEWS CENTRAL CO-ANCHOR: It was a schoolyard brawl, basically. And the words being used were so uncouth, I'm not going to report some of them. But we heard from Congresspeople using all kinds of words that you would normally not hear in the halls of Congress. Never mind in a committee and on television. It just shows you how things have changed and the way people fight now.

BERMAN: All right. Our thanks to Melanie Zanona up on Capitol Hill. This is still unfolding before our eyes, so we'll be right back.

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[10:40:00]

BOLDUAN: All right. So, the breaking news of what we just saw unfold. One House hearing set to hold a president's son in contempt for not showing up to testify. Well, it just surprised -- that committee just surprised when that president's son, Hunter Biden, shows up to the committee hearing. Mayhem ensues, as you just saw.

Another House hearing also getting underway. The first hearing in the Republican push to impeach Biden's Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas over border policy. And all at the same time, Congress is also careening once again toward a government shutdown as efforts to reach a funding deal, there was progress, but also now hitting a major snag -- the calendar and a need for a short-term Band- Aid. Catch all that?

Joining us right now, Democratic Congressman from Illinois, Mike Quigley. There's a lot going on Capitol Hill, but I will also argue a lot of theatrics and not a lot of actual progress. Let's start with the mayhem that we just saw ensue in that House hearing over Hunter Biden when he just showed up. For our viewers, so you know, the congressman -- you were plugged in and waiting for our conversation when all of this played out. So, you heard it live along with us. What's your reaction to what happened?

REP. MIKE QUIGLEY (D-IL): You know, in the interim, my staffer handed me the quote from John Adams, there must be decency and respect and veneration introduced for persons of authority or we are undone.

Yes, the circus is in town. Yes, I missed the coverage of the dancing bears.

But the serious context of this is we have two international crises to address and we haven't got close to passing those supplementals. We haven't funded our government. I know there's a tentative deal, but many -- the slip 'twixt the cup and the lip. We had a deal in June and didn't get it done then. So, there are critical issues that have to be resolved. And, as you say, we're dealing with theatrics.

BOLDUAN: There is always theatrics in public hearings. We know this. It's -- this is -- a tale as old as time. What's unusual is seeing, kind of, the target of the hearing surprised the hearing to show up. There was some conversation about rules of appearing before the committee. I don't know if you know the rules of the committee, if there's a three-day heads up, or if Hunter Biden could have actually gone and sat at that table, taking the oath and testified publicly. But how unusual that is, and what does this mean for -- how this is going to go going forward? What do you think?

QUIGLEY: You know, I think the problem began some time ago, frankly under the Trump administration when Trump officials and members of Congress decided they didn't have to obey lawful subpoenas. You need to obey a lawful subpoena, but they have to agree to negotiations and how you go forward.

I'm the chair of the Transparency Caucus. I don't see what the problem is with Hunter Biden appearing in public. I hear a lot of people say, what are you afraid of? Well, let the American people decide. You know, let them judge. Let Hunter Biden testify publicly and solve these questions. And in the meantime, we're -- if we're going to waste the people's time, can we get our business done first?

BOLDUAN: Let's try to run through some of the business. I don't know if you're going to put this into the waste category or the business category. Another hearing happening right now. House Republicans are moving towards possibly trying to impeach Alejandro Mayorkas over the border. Negotiators in the Senate say that they are making progress towards landing on a deal that includes doing more border security. Do you think, in the end, the deal is going to be good enough for Democrats? Setting aside Mayorkas for a second.

QUIGLEY: I'm not exactly sure where they are, but let's remember that the president offered a deal to dramatically increase border security last October. My friends across the aisle refused to put it on the floor. So, I think there's room for these discussions and good compromise. If there's no good faith, it won't get done.

BOLDUAN: Do you think Alejandro Mayorkas has done a good job when it comes to managing the crisis at the border, Congressman?

QUIGLEY: Extraordinarily difficult time. I think he's done the best he can. He needs a lot more resources. Let's remember the system was dismantled under the previous administration. We need those hearing officers. We need to hire border security. We need to put the system in place. And oh, by the way, we need to pass comprehensive immigration reform. All things that should have been done, 10, 12, 13 years ago, that's not the secretary's fault. But he clearly hasn't done anything to be impeached. We haven't impeached a secretary since post-Civil War and there's no reason to start now.

BOLDUAN: You are the co-chair of the House Ukraine Caucus. Funding seen as critical for Ukraine's war effort is wrapped up in this conversation about the negotiations over the border and border security. [10:45:00]

I know that you think connecting all of it is a bad idea from the start, but this is where you are. Do you see a chance if and when they present a deal on this supplemental, do you see a chance of voting against this money for Ukraine, the money for Ukraine, no matter what border policy changes, would it be included in that?

QUIGLEY: You know, it always depends on what the circumstances are. In the end, we have to fund this conflict. It's the most important war since the Second World War. Our national security is dependent. They're dependent upon this. Look, they're running out of time. They're running out of resources. Lives are at stake. Democracy is at stake. And our resolve is being judged by our friends and our opponents.

So, it's absolutely critical we get it done. I have no idea where they are in the negotiations. We can do all these things if we remind ourselves that there's more that unites us than divides us.

BOLDUAN: That is true. Hard though to say that and see that on Capitol Hill in this very moment. Especially what we've seen this morning. Congressman Quigley, thank you very much.

QUIGLEY: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: Sara?

SIDNER: All right. Great interview, Kate.

Up next, an explosive moment happening just moments ago on Capitol Hill. Kate, just talking about it, you just saw it here on "CNN News Center". Hunter Biden. Making a surprise appearance at that House committee proceeding. And boy, fireworks, big ones. How the White House may respond, coming up.

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[10:50:00]

SIDNER: Total theatrics on Capitol Hill this hour as President Joe Biden's son, Hunter Biden, unexpectedly showed up at a House committee proceeding, right as lawmakers were set to consider holding him in contempt of Congress.

Arlette Saenz is joining us now from the White House. That was unusual, to say the least. We -- no one was expecting those sorts of exchange with Congresswoman Nancy Mace and with Congressman Moskowitz, it was a battle royale with words. Luckily, it didn't come to blows. Has the White House, first of all, responded to what's happening on the Hill? I am certain they have seen it.

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: So far, we are still waiting to hear from the White House for a specific reaction to the fact that Hunter Biden appeared up on Capitol Hill. We're waiting to hear whether the White House or President Biden had any advance notice that the President's son would be doing this today.

But ahead of this hearing, this markup, White House Counsel Spokesperson Ian Sams pushed back on what they have called baseless attacks by these House GOP investigations into both President Biden and his son's business dealings. That is something that we've heard repeatedly from the White House.

One, that the president supports his son, but also this belief that these investigations are simply political theater and political stunts. Officials here at the White House repeatedly point to the fact that so far these House GOP investigations have yet to turn up any evidence of wrongdoing on the president's behalf as they are exploring some of these questions relating to Hunter Biden's business dealings.

But really at this moment, we've seen Republicans really eager to try to keep these issues up front and center, especially as the 2024 campaign is heating up. Republicans are hoping that if they continue to push these messages about painting the Biden family as corrupt, that that is something that could sink in with voters. I think only time will tell if that will actually be the case. But we are still waiting to learn a few more details about what kind of advanced heads up, if any, the White House or President Biden got today as Hunter Biden appeared there up on Capitol Hill.

I will note, that back in December when Hunter Biden went and spoke outside of the Capitol, the day that they did not appear for a closed- door deposition, President Biden was familiar with what Hunter Biden was going to say in his remarks. That is what the White House had said at the time. So, there is a possibility that the President had some type of advance notice, but we're still waiting to hear specifically from the White House on this today.

SIDNER: I think that is the biggest question that we all have on -- in our minds is, did the White House know that Hunter Biden was going to show up? We don't know the full answer to that, but it's hard to not know what your son is doing when there is such a firestorm around him. We will wait and see. All of the information that you get Arlette Saenz. For now, thank you so much for your reporting.

Toss it over to John.

BERMAN: All right. With us now CNN Legal Analyst Norm Eisen. He was special counsel for the House Judiciary Committee in Donald Trump's first impeachment. Ambassador, thank you so much for being with us. What we just saw, I can't remember anything like that right now. Hunter Biden showing up for this contempt hearing, sitting right next to him. You can see his attorney, Abbe Lowell, right there.

Two aspects to this, Norm. Number one, the theatrics, the showmanship, the politics. Number two, the law. First, explain the showmanship here.

NORM EISEN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST, FORMER HOUSE JUDICIARY SPECIAL COUNSEL IN TRUMP'S FIRST IMPEACHMENT TRIAL, AND FORMER WHITE HOUSE ETHICS CZAR: Hunter Biden is tired of being kicked around and maligned in the public eye. Abbe Lowell is famous. I've known him and worked with him for many years, John, for a very aggressive pushback strategy.

So, the public relations objective here was to make the point Hunter Biden is willing to answer any questions the committee had, you heard that in Abbe's press conference.

[10:55:00]

Any proper questions. But he wants to do it publicly. The legal point is what is known as the accommodations process. You have to reasonably offer to negotiate, both sides do, and the courts look at that when there is an enforcement of contempt that it -- like what is being considered here. So, it really was a very powerful move to the basket on both the PR and the legal fronts by Hunter and his lawyer.

BERMAN: On the legal side right here, I don't think there's much question that this committee led by Republican James Comer will vote to hold Hunter Biden in contempt. The House, the full House, probably will even with a narrow majority, but ultimately this will be up to the Justice Department. And the fact that Hunter Biden showed up at this hearing today, how would that weigh into a decision about whether to prosecute?

EISEN: I think the fact that he showed up today is probably more of an exclamation point or a highlight on the key legal issue that DOJ is going to have to decide, which is, has Hunter made a reasonable offer by agreeing to testify if it's in public?

And he does have some powerful arguments in that regard, John, that will be considered by DOJ, because there have been a series of inaccuracies, distortions and unfavorable depictions of what happens behind closed doors by Mr. Comer and by Mr. Jordan, who's -- who are leading this investigation. And for that reason, DOJ will say, well, Hunter kind of has a point here.

I think it helps him. And today's appearance is just a reminder to the world of his negotiating position.

BERMAN: Norm. I got to let you -- Norm, but very quickly, we don't know yet if the White House was given an early warning that this was going to happen. You've been inside the White House as a lawyer before. Do you think the White House lawyers are excited that Hunter Biden was up there?

EISEN: No, I think the White House is keen to have all things Hunter Biden be as low profile as possible in this election year. They were probably the least pleased of anyone in Washington. But from Hunter's perspective, a sound PR and legal move.

BERMAN: Ambassador Norm Eisen, great to have you. Thank you so much.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: So, we're following a lot of breaking news, a lot of moving parts this morning in today's show. It is debate night in America, in Iowa, right here on CNN. We're going to see that big debate tonight. What will we hear from Nikki Haley and Ron DeSantis? High -- how high are the stakes and will it make a difference with voters? Much more ahead.

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