Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

Trump to Participate in Closing Arguments in New York?; Nikki Haley and Ron DeSantis Set to Debate; House Republicans in Chaos?; Hunter Biden Appears on Capitol Hill. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired January 10, 2024 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:01:39]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN HOST: We are following breaking news.

Sum it up this way: Life today on Capitol Hill is something, a wild scene unfolding, as House Republicans were starting to move toward holding the president's son in contempt of Congress for defying a subpoena to appear and testify. As the House hearing got under way, the target of that investigation, Hunter Biden, surprised the committee and walked into the committee hearing, leading both sides to effectively start shouting and accusing each other of essentially saying, what are you so afraid of?

CNN's Melanie Zanona seen all of it unfold. She joins us once again

Melanie, political theatrics are common on the Hill. This was unusual.

MELANIE ZANONA, CNN CAPITOL HILL REPORTER: Yes.

And it's important to remember that this hearing was already going to be contentious. If you take a step back and remember that House Republicans are recommending that the president's son be held in contempt of Congress for refusing to appear for a closed-door deposition back in December, but Hunter's surprise appearance today ejected even more chaos and drama into the already contentious situation.

I want to take a listen to an exchange that happened in the hearing room just moments ago. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY MACE (R-SC): First of all, my first question is, who bribed Hunter Biden to be here today? That's my first question. Second question, you are the epitome of white privilege, coming into the Oversight Committee, spitting in our face, ignoring a congressional subpoena to be deposed.

What are you afraid of? You have no balls to come up here and...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Chairman, point of inquiry. MACE: Mr. Chairman...

(CROSSTALK)

REP. JAMES COMER (R-KY): The lady is recognized.

(CROSSTALK)

REP. JARED MOSKOWITZ (D-FL): If the gentlelady wants to hear from Hunter Biden, we can hear from him right now, Mr. Chairman. Let's take a vote and hear from Hunter Biden. What are you afraid of?

(CROSSTALK)

COMER: Hold on, hold on, hold on. Order, order, order.

(CROSSTALK)

MACE: Are women allowed to speak in here or no? Are women allowed to speak in here or no? Because you keep interrupting me.

COMER: Order.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZANONA: So, clearly, some fireworks there at the start of this hearing, which is still going on.

Republicans making the argument that this is just a political stunt and a distraction from Hunter Biden and that he has not complied with the terms of their subpoena, but Democrats, meanwhile, pointing out that Hunter Biden was right there in the audience and that if they wanted to hear from him, he could have testified under oath in a public setting, which Hunter Biden has said he was willing to do.

Democrats also made the point during the hearing that there have been several Republicans who have defied congressional subpoenas, including last year, when the January 6 Select Committee wanted to hear from a number of House Republican lawmakers.

So there was a contentious back-and-forth, but that hearing is still going on, and we're expecting it to last quite a while here, as Democrats make a push for amendments and Republicans push back.

BOLDUAN: OK. So what is this going to mean for this push to hold Hunter Biden in contempt? It's unclear to me.

ZANONA: Yes, I mean, this is not going to change the outcome of today. Both the House Oversight Committee and the House Judiciary Committee are expected to advance a resolution that would refer Hunter Biden to the DOJ and hold him in contempt of Congress.

That outcome is not expected to change just because Hunter Biden showed up today. Now, whether that changes the DOJ's calculation, because, ultimately, they're the ones who are going to have to determine whether or not to hold him in contempt, that's a different question.

[11:05:00]

But after the hearing, Hunter Biden was in there for about 20 minutes. He left. And then his lawyer made a prepared statement and spoke for about 20 minutes and reiterated the point that Hunter Biden is willing to talk, but only publicly. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ABBE LOWELL, ATTORNEY FOR HUNTER BIDEN: The Republican chairs today then are commandeering an unprecedented resolution in contempt who has offered to publicly answer all their proper questions.

The question there is, what are they afraid of?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZANONA: Yes, so this showdown really has been months in the making between House Republicans and the president's son, as Republicans have struggled to prove their argument that the president profited or made policy decisions based on his son's foreign business deals.

But it all came to a head today and likely only going to keep going in the months ahead as Republicans try to pursue an impeachment inquiry into President Biden, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Melanie Zanona, thank you so much -- John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: All right with us now, CNN political commentator S.E. Cupp and CNN political commentator former South Carolina State Representative Bakari Sellers.

As I noted before, we often see drama on Capitol Hill. That was unscripted drama, which is your specialty.

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I love it.

BERMAN: All right.

CUPP: This is a reality show.

BERMAN: You do reality shows right there.

CUPP: Calling Bravo.

BERMAN: That was the kind of stunt you see on a reality show, where the Republicans were surprised when Hunter Biden showed up.

CUPP: I think everyone was surprised, right? I can't speak to, as Norm did, the sort of legal strategy of showing up like this, but, politically, wow.

On the plus side. I think he got to make Republicans, again, look pretty unserious for taking so much time to target Hunter Biden and Joe Biden. On the other hand -- and I think you asked this question -- this is the last thing that Joe Biden wants right now. He'd rather be talking about Trump's legal problems, not Hunter's legal problems.

And coming in unannounced like a reality star at a "Housewives" reunion like look who's here with the receipts, I mean, way to take all the oxygen out of every room in Washington, D.C.

BERMAN: Let me just play a smidge more. And this came from Democrat Jared Moskowitz, who was pointing out that there are Republicans, including Republican members of Congress, who have defied subpoenas. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MOSKOWITZ: My colleagues who talk about lawful subpoenas, I appreciate the gentlelady's -- the gentlelady from South Carolina who voted to hold people in contempt.

Listen, I will make this bipartisan. I will vote for the Hunter contempt today. You can get my vote. You can get my vote. But I want you to show the American people that you're serious. Here is the subpoena to Representative Scott Perry, who did not comply. I'd like to enter this into the record.

Here is the subpoena to Mark Meadows. I'd like to enter this into the record, who did not comply. Here is the subpoena to Jim Jordan, who did not comply with a lawful subpoena. I'd like to enter that into the record. Here is the subpoena to Mo Brooks, who did not comply. I'd like to enter that into the record. Here is the subpoena to Mr. Biggs, who did not comply. I'd like to enter that into the record.

And here's the subpoena to Mr. McCarthy, who did not comply. I'd like to enter that into the record.

There's an amendment coming to add some of those names into the contempt order. You vote to add those names and show the American people that we apply the law equally, not just when it's Democrats, right, it's a crime when it's Democrats, but when it's Trump and the Republicans, it's just fine, no, show that you're serious and that everyone is not above the law.

Vote for that amendment, and I will vote for the Hunter Biden contempt.

I yield back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Bakari, there was a whole lot of entry into the record right there.

(LAUGHTER)

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, and rightfully so.

I mean, it just shows the unserious nature of House Republicans. And I think that, regardless of what you believe about Democrats and Republicans in this country, there is -- as much as Democrats get branded as one thing on one side, there is this belief that Republicans in the House simply cannot lead and it's always chaos.

And today did nothing but reinforce that. I want to push back on the notion that it was unscripted, though. I do think that -- I do think there were a few people in the room who got the heads-up. I think Jamie Raskin, as you can see, probably knew a little bit of something was happening. And you saw Congressman Moskowitz actually be prepared.

CUPP: He seemed ready.

SELLERS: He seemed ready, right?

CUPP: Yes. Yes. Yes.

SELLERS: That didn't seem like he was just startled by it. And then you saw Hunter Biden get up and leave. And as the kids say, he left Marjorie Taylor Greene on read, right?

He did not respond to her. It was her time to speak. And he was like, I'm out. So he just walked out and gave her the respect, the same respect that she gave him. And so I think it was a good day for Hunter Biden. He availed himself to the committee. He said, I'm here. If you want me to talk to the American public, I'm here. Why not?

Most Americans don't know the rules of the Rules Committee. I don't even know the rules of the Rules Committee. So I'm like, if you want to hit the man speak, just call him up there. He's there. Let him speak right now.

And so I think most Americans will say, he's here. Why not let him speak? Or we will call you bluff.

BERMAN: So maybe not unscripted, half-scripted. I don't know if that's a thing in the reality world.

CUPP: It is. It is. It is.

BERMAN: OK, half-scripted.

OK, S.E. and Bakari are actually here to talk about the debate tonight, the CNN debate that's taking place in Iowa. Nikki Haley and Ron DeSantis, they risked their lives flying in, in the weather. Bakari did for political analysis.

[11:10:10]

So I do want to get to that here.

SELLERS: Yes.

BERMAN: What do they need to get out of this debate tonight?

CUPP: Well, let me focus on Nikki.

BERMAN: OK.

CUPP: On Nikki Haley. She has kind of two choices tonight. She can try to reach out to

independents and moderates by appearing more sane than Ron DeSantis and Trump. She should lump those two together and act like the sane alternative.

What I think she's going to do instead is try to appeal futilely again to the MAGA wing, and they might try to out-right each other. That's a good strategy for DeSantis. It is not a good strategy for Nikki Haley. So that's what I'm watching for tonight.

SELLERS: I think Nikki Haley has to show that she can be presidential, and I don't know if that's possible, but she has to attempt to show that tonight.

I think she's going to try to run against Donald Trump for that particular sliver of the party, and that's not going to make much sense. I think the danger is the person who's actually not on the stage. I think Vivek Ramaswamy is actually -- don't laugh.

CUPP: No, doesn't this mean we don't have to talk about him, that he's not on the debate stage tonight?

(CROSSTALK)

SELLERS: Well, I actually -- I mean, I hear you. I hear you, but I actually think that the danger for both Nikki and Ron DeSantis is slipping to fourth in Iowa, because then it's game over. Then we have cameras in Iowa next Monday actually covering an "I'm out of the race" speech from one of them.

They have to finish second and third. They have to finish strong. But at the end of the day, this is all J.V., because the person who looks like they're going to win is not there.

CUPP: Right. Right.

BERMAN: You both have a fair point here, which is Iowa, which is Monday, is the kickoff to the campaign season. Normally, that campaign season is monthslong.

This could be days, literally days-long.

SELLERS: They're fighting for their lives.

BERMAN: And 10 days. This could be over very, very quickly.

But I want it, if you will, each take a bite at this here. If -- let's start with Ron DeSantis. If it's going to be more than a few days or one day, what needs to happen between now and the end of January for him to actually stay in this race?

CUPP: He needs something that he has not been able to capture for the entirety of his campaign, momentum. He needs a good headline on top of a good headline and that snowball effect that Nikki has had, Nikki Haley has managed to find. Donald Trump has found it, for sure, with all of these legal stories cascading. He has never been able to hop on that momentum horse. So he needs a good finish in Iowa, second, maybe third, but I would say second. And then he needs a decent showing in New Hampshire. I don't think he's going to have one.

BERMAN: Fifth in the latest CNN poll.

CUPP: Yes, exactly.

BERMAN: He's in fifth.

CUPP: If he can't convince people out of Iowa that this isn't the only place in the whole country that I am a plausible candidate, his campaign will be over pretty soon.

SELLERS: My prediction is that, Monday night, Ron DeSantis is out of the race.

CUPP: Yes.

SELLERS: I think Monday, night, based upon this -- tonight, he's going to have to be a star. Again, I'm not sure he's capable of that.

CUPP: Yes.

SELLERS: He's going to have to separate himself from Nikki and Donald Trump, and that's hard to do in one night on one debate stage.

But I think, next Monday night, he's making a speech saying that, I'm no longer running for president of the United States. I'm going to focus on being governor of Florida and try to position himself to be vice president.

BERMAN: Bakari Sellers, S.E. Cupp.

He can't be vice president, though. They both -- both Donald Trump and Ron DeSantis live in Florida. From him -- for him to be on the ticket -- I'm sorry to digress here -- one of them has to move away from Florida, which is impossible for the governor of Florida, one might think.

SELLERS: Oh, that's actually constitutionally correct.

BERMAN: And Donald Trump, who is in Mar-a-Lago.

CUPP: Right. Right.

BERMAN: So we have a constitutional issue here.

So, again, it's a...

SELLERS: A live fact-check. Thank you for...

BERMAN: Sorry. Sorry.

(CROSSTALK)

BERMAN: He called me short in the break.

CUPP: Yes, he did.

BERMAN: So, that's what you get for that.

(LAUGHTER)

BERMAN: Bakari Sellers...

SELLERS: Another correct fact-check.

BERMAN: S.E. Cupp -- S.E. Cupp. Thank you both so much.

(LAUGHTER)

BERMAN: All right, the courtroom is the campaign trail for Donald Trump.

Donald Trump headed to Iowa from this Washington, D.C., hearing, but he's going to be back in court tomorrow, again, the court/campaign trail tomorrow, possibly even giving the closing arguments in his civil fraud case.

Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin now saying his secret hospitalization was due to a private battle with prostate cancer. We're getting new information about the diagnosis and why the White House had no idea.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:18:54]

BERMAN: All right, happening now, chaos on Capitol Hill this morning.

There was the chaos that we saw in a committee room where Hunter Biden showed up to a House Oversight Committee that was meeting to hold him in contempt for not showing up for a deposition. He went to the open hearing. Chaos ensued. We saw that.

What we have not seen was behind closed doors this simmering Republican discontent, bordering on a revolt, against the new House speaker, Mike Johnson.

We're just getting in new details about that.

CNN's Lauren Fox joins us from Capitol Hill.

So, what happened?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, House Republicans met this morning on Capitol Hill to discuss the spending agreement that was announced over the weekend.

And there was a lot of hard-line pushback against Speaker Johnson's agreement, including Warren Davidson, a Republican who actually walked out of that meeting early and told reporters that he was sick of listening to them drivel on about a planned surrender. Those are his words.

He also said that he never thought that Speaker Johnson should have been hired in the first place. That was in response to a question about whether or not Johnson should keep his job, given the fact that he cut a spending deal that looks a lot like the one that McCarthy cut as part of the debt ceiling negotiation over the summer.

[11:20:14]

Now, one thing is becoming very clear, that there are a number of hard-liners who are both very disappointed with the negotiation that Johnson entered into a Chuck Schumer, the majority leader in the United States Senate, but there is also a sense that many of them are not ready to take the step to try to offer that motion to vacate that ended Kevin McCarthy's tenure.

In fact, I talked to Matt Gaetz, who led that effort against McCarthy. He said, now is not the time to try to offer that against Johnson. He said he's disappointed. He said it's time for Johnson to fight, but he said it was too soon to make any moves like that one.

BERMAN: Too soon. All right, the question is if ever. We will see.

Lauren Fox on Capitol Hill, keep us posted. Thank you -- Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN HOST: All right, tonight, Ron DeSantis and Nikki Haley going head to head in Iowa in the final Republican debate before Monday's Iowa caucuses.

Yes, it's finally here. That prime-time matchup happening right here on CNN. It will happen tonight. You see that little thing in the right-hand corner? That's nine hours and 39 seconds. You have got a lot of time before this happens, so get your popcorn ready. Donald Trump will also be in Iowa, but not on the stage with his top rivals.

Instead, he is participating in his own solo town hall.

CNN's Eva McKend is joining us from inside the debate hall this morning.

Eva, you have been talking to a lot of people. You have been seeing things ramp up. What can you tell us tonight?

EVA MCKEND, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Sara, this is shaping up to be a fierce debate.

That's because there are still voters here in Iowa that are undecided. Governor DeSantis, Nikki Haley, they are trying to appeal to those voters, make the case for why they are the clear Trump alternative. Policy differences, those should also come into focus tonight.

And we're hearing from Governor DeSantis' deputy campaign manager, who sort of telegraphed Governor DeSantis' plan for the evening, and that is to try to push Haley into answering questions that they feel as though she has previously evaded. So we could get some fireworks.

I will tell you, from being out on the campaign trail, that things have really intensified in recent days. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I like being underestimated. So I could sit here and say this, but you know what? I think that being the underdog suits me better. So buckle up. I think it's going to be an interesting ride.

NIKKI HALEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have been waiting for this. I have done 150-plus town halls, and it has come to this moment. Don't complain about what happens in a general election if you don't play in this caucus. It matters.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCKEND: So just five days until the caucus, I know one thing for sure, Sara. Iowa is going to be watching closely.

SIDNER: They certainly will. And so will we.

Eva McKend, thank you for all of your reporting you're doing out there. And try to stay warm. It is freezing in Iowa.

BOLDUAN: One person avoiding tonight's debate stage, having nothing to do with the temperature, however, I believe, at least, is again the front-runner, Donald Trump skipping the debate.

But we know that, tomorrow, he is planning to be back in New York and back in a courtroom, voluntarily appearing at the civil fraud trial against him.

CNN's Kristen Holmes has much more on this.

Kristen, you're getting some new reporting on all of this and the strategy for Donald Trump this week.

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Kate.

We are learning now that not only is Donald Trump planning to appear in the New York courtroom. He is actually making plans to speak during the closing arguments in that New York civil case. Now, here's where things currently stand, according to our sources.

Donald Trump and his legal team have been in negotiations with the judge in that case to allow Donald Trump to speak. I know, from talking to senior advisers, this is something that Donald Trump has expressed interest in doing.

Where things stand right now is that the judge has indicated that he is inclined to let Donald Trump participate in these closing arguments, but with some restrictions. And we are told that Trump did not want to agree to any restrictions. So, as of now, we are unclear whether or not he will actually be

taking part in those closing remarks. And just to be clear, it wouldn't just be him. His legal team would be there as well. I do want to give a few caveats here. We have heard from Donald Trump's team time and time again and Donald Trump himself that he is going to appear in court.

Just last month, he said that he was going to be part of the defense, he was going to be the final witness and give his testimony, only to cancel last minute. So, this is by no means a done deal. And even if they go through all of the legal check marks, it doesn't mean he's actually going to speak. He could change his mind at the last minute. His team could say he's not doing that.

Part of this is because all of this is meant to be a distraction. It is the day after a debate. It is an opportunity for Donald Trump to suck all of the oxygen out of the race at a time when Nikki Haley and Ron DeSantis are scrambling, fighting for that second place.

[11:25:11]

So all of this really plays into how Donald Trump has been maneuvering around court and politics and using these court appearances as part of his campaign. The other thing to point out here is that this comes after what we saw yesterday, which was really a lackluster appearance by Donald Trump.

And by that, I mean he didn't have the same media fanfare that he has in New York. Now they are stepping it up, saying that he wants to participate in his closing arguments in New York's civil fraud case. Obviously, we are waiting and seeing. This is developing. We will let as soon as we have information as to whether or not this is a done deal -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Great reporting, Kristen. Thank you for the update, making also more proof that the legal strategy, the political strategy are one and the same for the Trump campaign right now -- John.

BERMAN: The courtroom is the campaign.

Meanwhile, Hunter Biden made this surprise appearance on Capitol Hill -- what his attorney sitting right there is now saying about this move.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)