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Hunter Biden Stuns Capitol Hill At Oversight Contempt Hearing; House Homeland Security Committee Considers Impeaching Mayorkas; Judge Says Trump Can't Speak During Closing Arguments In NY Civil Fraud Trial; Boeing CEO Admits "Mistake" After Door Plug Rips Off Mid- Flight; Tonight On CNN: DeSantis & Haley Debate One-On-One In Iowa. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired January 10, 2024 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[13:00:49]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: It is the top of the hour. I am Brianna Keilar alongside Boris Sanchez here in Washington. And we are waiting for the White House Press Secretary to take questions after a morning of drama. Really no other way to put it on Capitol Hill with the President's son at the center of it all.

Just three hours ago, Hunter Biden stunning Capitol Hill by appearing unexpectedly there, is the House Oversight Committee convened, lawmakers considering holding the President's son in criminal contempt of Congress for not complying with a subpoena to sit for a closed door deposition last month. A vote before the full House could happen as soon as next week.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: But today, the scene in the corridor as Biden walked to the hearing was pretty close to chaos. And that was just a preview of what unfolded when he actually went and sat down before the committee. Lawmakers squabbling with each other as Hunter sat down quietly silent before them.

And then just moments after it began, it was over as Republican Marjorie Taylor Greene started to speak. The younger Biden stood up and walked out without a word. His lawyer then spoke to reporters after.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ABBE LOWELL, ATTORNEY FOR HUNTER BIDEN: The Republican chairs today then are commandeering an unprecedented resolution to hold someone in contempt who has offered to publicly answer all their proper questions. The question there is, what are they afraid of?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Let's get the latest from CNN Capitol Hill Reporter Melanie Zanona. We also have CNN Legal Analyst and former Federal Prosecutor Jennifer Rodgers to discuss. Melanie, to you first, do we know what led to Hunter Biden appearing today? Why that decision? MELANIE ZANONA, CNN CAPITOL HILL REPORTER: Well, this strategy from Hunter Biden was likely probably a mix of PR reasons and also legal reasons. Hunter Biden and his legal team have been trying to make the point for several months now that he is willing to show up and publicly testify for Republicans under oath, I might add, that he just doesn't want to sit for a closed door deposition.

But Republicans have pushed back and they say this is not how congressional subpoenas work, that he does not get to dictate the terms of his appearance, even though we should note several Republicans have defied congressional subpoenas in the past from the January 6th Select Committee. So, this showdown really has been brewing for months between Republicans and Hunter Biden, the President's son.

But it really came to a head today with that surprise, dramatic appearance from Hunter Biden. And it led to some fireworks at the beginning of the hearing. Let's take a listen to one of those contentious exchanges.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY MACE (R), OVERSIGHT AND ACCOUNTABILITY COMMITTEE: You are the epitome of white privilege, coming into the Oversight Committee, spitting in our face, ignoring a congressional subpoena to be deposed. What are you afraid of? You have no balls to come up here and --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Chairman, point of inquiry.

MACE: Mr. Chairman --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The lady is recognized --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If the gentlelady wants to hear from Hunter Biden, we can hear from him right now, Mr. Chairman. Let's take a vote and hear from Hunter Biden. What are you afraid of?

MACE: Are women allowed to speak --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hold on, hold on, hold on. Order, order, order.

MACE: Are women allowed to speak in here or no? Are women allowed to speak in here or no?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Order.

MACE: Because you keep interrupting me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZANONA: Now, this hearing in the Oversight Committee is still ongoing, as well as another hearing in the House Judiciary Committee, which is also marking up a resolution that would refer Hunter Biden to the DOJ for contempt of Congress. But ultimately, if the House, the full House, does pass this resolution, which we are expecting to happen as early as next week, it's going to be up to the DOJ to determine whether to prosecute the President's son.

They are already looking into Hunter Biden over some other tax and gun related charges. But no doubt, just a remarkable moment here on Capitol Hill as Republicans pursue their impeachment inquiry into President Joe Biden.

KEILAR: Yes. Just when you think you've seen it all. The House, Mel, also began its first hearing on whether to impeach Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas over his leadership, his handling of the border crisis as well. What's happening there?

ZANONA: Yes. So this comes as the impeachment inquiry into Biden has really struggled. Republicans have failed to come up with a definitive link between President Joe Biden and his son's foreign business deals.

[13:05:03]

And as the surge of migrants across the border has become such a big issue in recent weeks and months, Republicans are now prioritizing impeaching Alejandro Mayorkas, the Secretary of Homeland Security. I talked to Mark Green, he is the chairman of the Homeland Security Committee. He said this is the first hearing.

It's so far just a rehash of an investigation that he had been conducting into problems at the southern border. But Mayorkas was not at this hearing. There were state attorney generals that are at this hearing. And Republicans were trying to make the case that just because he hasn't committed a crime necessarily, that gross incompetence is still a standard for impeachment.

Democrats, meanwhile, have pushed back on that. They said policy disputes are hardly rise to the level of high crimes and misdemeanors. They say, they see that this is a political stunt on the half -- behalf of Republicans. So Republicans planning to move quickly on this. This is likely going to be just one of a handful of hearings from the Homeland Committee before they eventually try to move to the full floor with impeachment articles for Mayorkas' spree [ph].

SANCHEZ: Melanie, please stand by. Let's pivot over to Jennifer Rodgers. Curious to get your thoughts on this appearance by Hunter Biden. Really a surprise. What do you make of that strategy?

JENNIFER RODGERS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, it's interesting. I mean, I don't know what it is. It's a PR strategy or political strategy, but I think it's pretty smart as a legal strategy. Listen, Hunter Biden is fighting two criminal cases already that have been filed against him. He certainly doesn't want to have a third for contempt of Congress.

And I think perhaps Jamie Raskin set it out best in his five minutes or so of talking during the hearing. He has not failed to comply with this subpoena. Not only did he show up today, but his lawyers have been negotiating in good faith about the appearance since he obtained the subpoena. So it would be completely unprecedented for DOJ to proceed with a criminal case here.

And I just think Hunter Biden and his team wanted to really put the nail in that coffin that he should not be criminally charged here no matter what happens, no matter whether DOJ handles this as it normally would, or whether they decide to refer this to Hunter Biden's special counsel, David Weiss for resolution.

KEILAR: Yes. And Jen, I think we can see, and this is an election year, it does seem Republicans are not operating in full faith with some of these investigations, but I think we should be clear about the process. It is up to them to determine how a interview or an appearance goes. I mean, if they want it to be behind closed doors, isn't that up to them, just as it would be up to Democrats on the flip side if they were in the majority?

RODGERS: It is up to them, Brianna, as far as how they run their own hearings. But then when it comes to the question of whether someone can be criminally charged for contempt of Congress, that's not what DOJ will consider.

What DOJ will consider is whether there was good faith negotiations, whether the witness completely blew off the subpoena, failed to negotiate at all, just denied it altogether, as in the case of the two people who actually were charged with contempt of Congress, Steve Bannon and -- I'm forgetting his name, Larry, the economic adviser to former president Trump because they just refuse to even negotiate at all.

So when you're looking at the criminal standard, it's not quite, well, Congress gets to have it the way they want it. And if you don't comply with their demands, you know, you potentially go to prison. It's a different standard. If you negotiate at all in good faith, at least that's how DOJ has considered it in the past, then you will not be criminally charged.

So there's just no basis under this set of facts for Hunter Biden to be charged, but I think DOJ will, as they always do, take a referral from Congress and give it some thought at least before coming forward with their decision.

KEILAR: I think it was Peter Navarro you were speaking up. I wanted to go -- I thought that's what it was. I just wanted to Google it before I said to myself.

RODGERS: Sorry about that.

KEILAR: No, no, it was Peter Navarro.

SANCHEZ: Jennifer Rodgers, thanks so much for the perspective.

RODGERS: Thanks.

SANCHEZ: Of course.

Let's expand the conversation now with someone who was in that hearing. Joining us is California Democratic Congressman Robert Garcia. He's a member of the House Homeland Security and Oversight Committees. Congressman, thank you so much for being with us. Obviously, there are House procedures in place that would have prevented Hunter Biden from doing a public hearing then and there. So what message do you think he was sending by actually showing up today? Was this a publicity stunt?

REP. ROBERT GARCIA (D), CALIFORNIA: I mean, let's be very honest with the facts. The truth is, is that Hunter Biden has agreed to testify publicly on numerous occasions. And the head of our committee, James Comer, continues to refuse. James Comer has been calling for a public testimony now for months and months. House Democrats, we agree.

We should hear from Hunter Biden. We were all ready for that public hearing, but they refused to allow that to happen. And so I think -- I mean, obviously, Hunter Biden came today. He was ready to answer questions. He wants to let people know that he wants to publicly testify. But the Republicans aren't interested in that.

[13:10:08]

What they're interested in is this complete sham political stunt, impeachment process that absolutely has zero evidence linking Hunter Biden and his business dealings with President Biden and the White House. And so I think we've got to be very clear about what happened today. Republicans are only interested in creating as much chaos and dysfunction as possible.

SANCHEZ: They do write the rules when it comes to a determination on how an appearance is to take place, though, right? Like, it's up to them. Even if Comer initially said he would do it publicly, now he wants to do it privately. It's still up to the Republicans on the committee.

GARCIA: It is. And in fact, I made a motion today in the committee when it was my turn to speak, to actually hear from Hunter Biden directly, either today or at a future hearing. And they rejected that motion. And so they could have, at that moment, accepted a public hearing, which we want to have, which Hunter Biden himself wants to have. But they're not interested in that.

Let's remember who's really driving the car here. This is all about Marjorie Taylor Greene. On day one of President Biden's inauguration and the day he became president, she filed an impeachment motion on his very first day in office. So this is her impeachment fantasy.

This is Donald Trump's impeachment fantasy come to life, where they're just obsessed with doing whatever they can to ensure that they stop President Biden and try to have this revenge fantasy of Donald Trump and Marjorie Taylor Greene. And so, we are open to having the sunshine in, having the hearing, but they rejected it once again today.

SANCHEZ: So Republicans argue that Hunter's testimony would help prove wrongdoing by President Biden, which the White House has denied. I want to be clear about this. They have not, Republicans, shared any direct evidence that Joe Biden profited off of his family's business dealings when he was in office. They do, however, point to witness testimony that Hunter sought to enrich himself based on access or the illusion of access to his father. Can you say with 100 percent certainty that Joe Biden wasn't aware that Hunter was doing that?

GARCIA: Absolutely. I mean, there is zero evidence linking President Biden to any sort of wrongdoing. Now, look, Hunter Biden is going through a judicial process right now. Obviously, he's going through a serious process. He's going to deal with that as a civilian.

But at the end of the day, this is about what President Biden, what he's doing, his vision for the country, and this is all a political sham to try to essentially hurt President Biden and try to reelect Donald Trump. And they've, in fact, said as much. Marjorie Taylor Greene has said as much. And so I think we've got to be honest about what's actually happening today.

And what the American public want is transparency. What's more transparent than having Hunter Biden actually ask questions in front of the public and answering questions of both Republicans and Democrats?

SANCHEZ: To that point, Congressman, Republicans are pointing to these messages allegedly sent by Hunter Biden about Chinese businesses. And he mentioned specifically in an email a 10 percent cut for the big guy. Do you believe that that big guy is Joe Biden? Shouldn't that be investigated?

GARCIA: Well, first of all, the judicial process is moving forward. And, of course, absolutely not. I mean, let's be very clear once again. Republicans have produced zero evidence linking the President to any wrongdoing. And in fact, Republicans over and over and over again in the House, outside the House, across the country, are saying themselves that there's no evidence.

And so, this is -- the one thing there is bipartisan agreement on is that there is no evidence linking the President to any sort of business dealing or wrongdoing with Hunter Biden. But look, Hunter Biden is going through his own judicial process, and that's where the information will come out. They should let that go forward.

But Republicans are more interested in these clown show political stunts. They do it every single day while we're facing, as you know, a government shutdown over the course of the next week.

SANCHEZ: Lastly, Congressman, there are efforts not only to impeach President Biden, but key members of his administration, including DHS Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas, over that record number of migrant encounters that we saw in December. Do you believe that Mayorkas has been derelict in his duties to protect the southern border?

GARCIA: Absolutely not. I mean, this is ridiculous. Again, who's leading this effort? Marjorie Taylor Greene. So you can go back to Marjorie Taylor Greene essentially being the leader of both of these kind of sham impeachment efforts. Here's the reality. There are real issues along the border. The President recognizes this. Democrats understand this. We want to secure border. We want to send more resources to Border Patrol agents that need it. We want technology along the border. We want to help the nonprofits that are working on the border.

But you know who rejects every single one of those proposals? House Republicans.

[13:15:00]

The President has actually proposed millions and billions of dollars to help the border and security across the country, that's been rejected by the House Republicans because they actually don't want solutions on the border. They want to turn it into a political football and a political talking point for Donald Trump.

And so we are happy to have a debate on immigration on the border. We want to have that debate. We've actually proposed funding, but they are really not interested in any of that. So this, again, this impeachment idea is a Marjorie Taylor Greene creation. And everything she's doing at this point is completely nuts. And so we just got to take it for what it is and try to get the business done for the American people.

SANCHEZ: Congressman Robert Garcia, we have to leave the conversation there. Very much appreciate you sharing your perspective.

GARCIA: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Thanks.

KEILAR: Sources tell CNN that former President Trump's lawyers had discussions with the judge presiding over his New York civil fraud trial on allowing the former president to speak in his defense during closing arguments tomorrow. Now, though, we have learned that Judge Arthur Engoron indicated he does not expect Trump to speak in court because Trump failed to comply with the judge's preconditioned terms.

SANCHEZ: Let's bring in CNN's Katelyn Polantz. Katelyn, what were those preconditioned terms?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, the judge made it really clear and we're just getting more of a glimpse into this. So earlier today, we did learn the full story that Trump's lawyers had said to the judge in New York, we want him to speak. He wants to speak and address the court for a closing argument. Really unusual for someone who's the defendant to do that.

And the judge said yes. And at that time, in documents we just got from the court, the judge wrote, he may not seek to introduce new evidence, he may not testify, he may not comment on irrelevant matters. In particular and without limitation, he may not deliver a campaign speech.

And then laid out to his attorneys, those are the rules. And if he doesn't follow them, I'll cut him off. I could find him. I could do a bunch of things as the judge presiding in this courtroom. And then in these documents that we just got, there was a back and forth where the attorneys weren't willing to agree to these terms because they said Trump wasn't willing to agree to these terms.

They then tried to bring the death of Melania Trump's mother into play into this and postpone the closing arguments. They asked the judge, oh, we're not meeting your deadlines. We don't have an answer for you. Can we postpone the closing arguments? He's not going to be in court tomorrow.

And then the judge said, those are the terms. I'm not going to move the closing argument. If he wants to be there, he can. His attorneys came back and said, OK, he will speak tomorrow. And they still wouldn't agree to these terms that the judge is setting.

And so at that point, that's when the judge said, that's it. You can either take this offer that I'm giving you as the judge or leave it. You have until noon today -- so that's today -- to tell me if he agrees to this. They never responded according to these documents. And so now the judge is laying it down and saying, it's over. You didn't agree, and so he's not going to speak.

KEILAR: To be clear, there are rules for what you can and cannot say in a closing argument. They're just asking him to abide by them, basically.

POLANTZ: Yes. And this isn't a situation where one side is trying to get the other side to abide. It's the judge's --

KEILAR: Yes.

POLANTZ: -- courtroom. Whatever the judge says goes. And what's interesting about this, too, is there are legal possibilities here where Trump can appeal, try and claim the judge was unfair to him. But the judge is specifically indicating in these emails with his lawyers, I'm going to put this in the public record so that if you want to add this to what you're saying in your appeal against me, you can.

But he lays out under the law where he says, these are what my plans are, you can either agree to them or not. Take it or leave it. And apparently they didn't take it.

SANCHEZ: You have to wonder what the former president was intending to say if it's a case that he and his team have vowed, they're going to appeal anyway.

POLANTZ: Yes. I mean, our understanding from the sources that I was talking to earlier, along with Kristen Holmes and some other reporters here, was that it wasn't that Trump himself wasn't interested in abiding by certain restrictions. It was that he didn't want preconditions placed upon him before he was about to stand up and speak. I mean, we know he speaks off the cuff.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

KEILAR: That's right.

SANCHEZ: Facing several gag orders over that. Katelyn Polantz --

POLANTZ: In this case included, yes.

SANCHEZ: Yes. Thank you so much.

Still ahead on News Central, for the very first time, Nikki Haley and Ron DeSantis are facing off one on one on a debate stage. Everything on the line in Iowa as both candidates try to become Donald Trump's number one challenger.

KEILAR: Plus, Secretary of State Antony Blinken warning there will be consequences for the continued Houthi attacks in the Red Sea. This comes after the U.S. Navy shot down 21 missiles and drones on Tuesday.

And in his first address since the midflight blowout on an Alaska Airlines flight, Boeing CEO acknowledging a mistake was made that contributed to that situation. We'll have the latest on the investigation coming up.

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[13:24:20]

KEILAR: Tonight, Nikki Haley and Governor Ron DeSantis are going one on one for the first time. The two Republican hopefuls will be sparring in Des Moines, Iowa. Doing it right here on CNN in the final Republican presidential debate before the first ballots are cast, the first, I don't know, opinions. Can you call it ballots?

SANCHEZ: I mean, they're technically ballots because the Republicans use pieces of paper?

KEILAR: Yes, I guess so.

SANCHEZ: So I guess those count as ballots.

KEILAR: That's right. OK. So that's what they're going to be doing ahead of the ballots being cast there in the caucuses. GOP primary frontrunner Donald Trump, he did qualify for tonight's debate. He is once again skipping, though.

SANCHEZ: Yes, it doesn't seem to have hurt him much in polls. We'll see if that changes before Monday as we take a live look at the debate stage. You see our crack CNN team getting it ready and ship shape.

[13:25:08]

These two GOP rivals have now a prime opportunity to make their case directly to Iowans about who should be the last Trump challenger standing. We want to get some perspective now from former Obama 2012 campaign manager Jim Messina. He's the CEO of the Messina Group. We also have with us former adviser to George W. Bush and John McCain, Mark McKinnon. He's the creator of "The Circus". Mark, first to you, that latest Iowa poll. Trump has almost six in 10 support in the Hawkeye state. DeSantis in second, leading Haley by nine points. Is there much Haley can do at this point to catch up to DeSantis? And is there much DeSantis can do to catch up with Trump?

MARK MCKINNON, FORMER ADVISER TO GEORGE W. BUSH & JOHN MCCAIN: Yes, I think on both counts, there's possibilities. Iowa is famous for making decisions very late and very quickly. I mean, think about Rick Santorum, Ted Cruz, Mike Huckabee, all surprised at the last minute. So, you know, this has been a pretty stable race thus far. But again, historically, lots of things can happen. So I expect not just sparks tonight, but flamethrowers.

KEILAR: I think you're right. Jim, what are you watching for and how much of an impact do you think it can have?

JIM MESSINA, FORMER OBAMA 2012 CAMPAIGN MANAGER: Well, look, the thing I'm looking at tonight is, is there going to be this viral moment that allows someone to surge? Newt Gingrich had that in 2012 and surged. Hillary Clinton had it in 2008 in New Hampshire and surge. So the question is, can one of these two have that breakout moment that really starts to move the needle?

And, you know, I agree with Mark. Voters are starting to really pay attention. There's going to be a lot of people looking at this, which is why former President Trump is also doing his own thing concurrently, because he wants to slow down the eyeballs. He wants to make sure that no one gets too excited about his potential opponents here.

SANCHEZ: Mark, is there any particular demographic or geographic area in Iowa that you're watching to be an indicator of how well Donald Trump will be performing across the board in other primary locations?

MCKINNON: Well, you know, the thing about Iowa that often provides the search for somebody is evangelical voters. And Trump has had an interesting and dynamic and problematic history with evangelical voters. And the way they vote has changed over time. And they've come to adopt Donald Trump despite and because of some of his troubles.

But that's always what we look at in Iowa is where are the evangelical voters going? Because they're the ones who provide the search for Cruz, Santorum, Huckabee. Could that provide a search for somebody like Vivek? And maybe he's the surprise and maybe Haley or Huckabee ends up fourth.

I mean, the traditional notion is there are three tickets out of Iowa. So we'll see those three are going to be.

KEILAR: Jim, does anything that happens in Iowa -- and we're know, you know, someone does very poorly, they drop out, things shift. How can that affect what happens in New Hampshire in a big way?

MESSINA: Oh, it can absolutely affect it in two ways. First of all, someone's going to get some momentum coming out of this. Someone is going to try to say they are the alternative to Donald Trump. And if Nikki Haley were to finish second, Rick Santorum is basically over. He would likely get out of the race and allow Haley to have her one on one shot.

And so, you know, the same, Haley wants to get as close to second as she can. A strong third would be fine because she's betting all of her cards on New Hampshire and then South Carolina. So, you know, momentum really, really matters. And then a bunch of candidates are going to go away the next morning. People like Asa Hutchinson, probably Vivek and other folks who just aren't going to get one of the three golden tickets.

SANCHEZ: Jim Messina, Mark McKinnon, thank you so much for the perspective. Look forward to watching tonight.

MCKINNON: Thank you.

MESSINA: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: And for folks at home, don't miss it. CNN's Republican Presidential Debate live from Iowa, moderated by Jake Tapper and Dana Bash. The fun starts at 09:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN.

So we have new details on the hospitalization of Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin. We're learning that senior White House officials actually pushed the Pentagon to release a statement on the secretary's hospitalization. We have much more on the fallout of that straight ahead.

Plus, Secretary of State Antony Blinken warning that there will be consequences for Houthi attacks in the Red Sea. This as the U.S. Navy and Great Britain shoot down one of their largest attacks yet. Stay with CNN. We're back in just moments.

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