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House GOP Revolts Against Speaker's Spending Bill; Hunter Biden Stuns Cap Hill With Appearance Before Oversight CMTE; Tonight On CNN: Final GOP Primary Debate Before Iowa Caucuses; House Panel Holds First Impeachment Hearing On Mayorkas; Rep. Anthony D'Esposito (R-NY) Talks About House Committee's Consideration Of Impeaching Alejandro Mayorkas. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired January 10, 2024 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[15:00:53]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN Breaking News.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: We're following breaking news on Capitol Hill. I'm Boris Sanchez alongside Brianna Keilar in the nation's capital.

And we've already seen fireworks on the Hill today. Now, we're watching a hard right rebellion. A handful of conservative House Republicans just revolted against the spending deal that Speaker Mike Johnson made with Senate Democrats.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Let's get the latest now from CNN's Lauren Fox, who is there on the Hill watching it all go down.

Lauren, what's happening?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER: Yes, this was a rule vote, a procedural vote on an unrelated bill to that spending package that Mike Johnson agreed to with Majority Leader Chuck Schumer. This rebellion, though, is coming from House conservatives with more than a dozen of them voting to bring down this procedural step to show their dissatisfaction with the deal that was cut from Speaker Mike Johnson.

Now, this is a playbook that they have used before. It is also a playbook they used against Kevin McCarthy. Right after he cut the debt ceiling deal back at the end of May. This is a sign that they're frustrated. I just finished speaking with Bob Good, the leader of the House Freedom Caucus, who told reporters that they have two demands. They want, as part of the spending deal, to include border security. They also want it to include further spending cuts.

If you remember, the deal that was announced on Sunday by Speaker Mike Johnson in a dear colleague's letter included the fact that this spending deal was $1.59 trillion with $886 billion in defense, $704 billion in non-defense spending, but then $69 billion in reprogrammed funds that would go into the non-defense side. It's that $69 billion side deal that has frustrated and angered the House Freedom Caucus. They're arguing that is something that the Speaker never should have agreed to. Now, while Good and his colleagues are deeply frustrated right now with the Speaker, no one is calling to oust Speaker Johnson. And I think that that is a really important thing to note here, because this is different than the rebellion so far that we saw against Kevin McCarthy. That doesn't mean that the anger doesn't build. That doesn't mean that the frustration doesn't build.

But Good was asked specifically about whether or not Johnson's job was in jeopardy and he said that reporters needed to stop comparing Johnson to McCarthy because they are different. They had different levels of leadership experience. I think that's really important to note in this moment as we are watching House conservatives show once again that they are willing to stand in the way if they don't get their way on these spending agreements. Brianna, Boris?

SANCHEZ: Yes, interesting that they know the difference between McCarthy and Johnson, yet the deals that they agreed to largely the same.

Lauren Fox on Capitol Hill, thank you so much.

We alluded to fireworks there earlier today. Hunter Biden stunned lawmakers when he showed up at a House Oversight Committee hearing as Republicans were set to begin the contempt of Congress process against the President's son. He's accused of not complying with the subpoena to sit for a closed-door deposition last month, insisting that any such proceeding be made public.

KEILAR: Well, today it was public, but it was sort of a different situation here. He unexpectedly showed up to be a member of the audience in that hearing room. And that set off some heated exchanges between Republicans and Democrats on the committee as Biden - Hunter Biden - was sitting there watching.

You had folks on this panel bickering for several minutes. But then just moments after it began, it was over. As Republican Marjorie Taylor Greene started to speak, Biden stood up and without a word, stalked out of - left the room, I should say. His lawyer spoke to reporters afterward.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ABBE LOWELL, ATTORNEY FOR HUNTER BIDEN: The Republican chairs today then are commandeering an unprecedented resolution to hold someone in contempt who has offered to publicly answer all their proper questions. The question there is what are they afraid of?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: All right. Joining us now, CNN Capitol Hill Reporter, Melanie Zanona.

It just strikes me, Mel, that looking at that, it's almost like a player who did something really bad in some kind of game and gets ejected from the game and they're walking out in shame.

[15:05:10]

I mean, that's more the vibe than a congressional hearing here.

MELANIE ZANONA, CNN CAPITOL HILL REPORTER: Yes. It was a pretty remarkable moment here on Capitol Hill today. This hearing was always going to be contentious. Remember, House Republican committees are poised to recommend that the President's son be held in contempt of Congress for refusing to sit for a closed-door deposition.

But Hunter's appearance today, this surprise appearance, was really stunning, even to Democrats on the committee who have been in communication with Hunter Biden before. So it was a really stunning moment. It injected even more political theatrics into the situation. And it led to some pretty tense exchanges and fireworks at the outset of the hearing. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY MACE (R-SC): You are the epitome of white privilege coming into the Oversight Committee, spitting in our face, ignoring a congressional subpoena to be deposed. What are you afraid of? You have no balls to come up here and ...

REP. JARED MOSKOWITZ (R-FL): Mr. Chairman, point of inquiry.

MACE: Mr. Chairman ...

MOSKOWITZ: If the ...

REP. JAMES COMER (R-KY): The lady is recognized.

MACE: I'm not done. You play stupid games.

MOSKOWITZ: If the gentlelady wants to hear from Hunter Biden, we can hear from him right now, Mr. Chairman.

MACE: And you win stupid prizes.

MOSKOWITZ: Let's take a vote and hear from Hunter Biden.

MACE: I'm speaking.

MOSKOWITZ: What are you afraid of?

MACE: Are women allowed to speak in here?

MOSKOWITZ: What are you afraid of?

COMER: Hold on. Hold on. Order, order, order ...

MOSKOWITZ: Are you guys (inaudible) ...

COMER: Ms. Mace? Ms. Mace?

MACE: Are women allowed to speak in here or not.

COMER: All right.

MOSKOWITZ: Okay.

MACE: Are women allowed to speak in here or no?

COMER: Order.

MACE: Because you keep interrupting me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZANONA: Now, after the hearing, after Hunter Biden sat in the audience for around 20 minutes, him and also his lawyer exited the hearing room. And they also gave a statement to reporters. His lawyer said that Hunter Biden is willing to appear for public hearings, testify under oath, but is not willing to sit for a closed-door deposition. That is the point. That is the point that Hunter Biden was trying to make today by showing up.

He pulled a similar move back in December, the day of his closed-door deposition. He came to Capitol Hill and did a press conference outside the Capitol. But Republicans have pushed back on that. They said that's not how congressional subpoenas work and that he does not get to dictate the terms of how he complies. But ultimately, it is going to be up to the DOJ to determine whether or not to prosecute Hunter Biden here. That's because the House committees will send this to the full floor. The House presumably will vote on it as soon as next week and then it's going to be referred to the DOJ.

But again, just this remarkable showdown between congressional Republicans and the President's son as Republicans try to ramp up their efforts to impeach President Joe Biden.

KEILAR: Yes, he certainly inserted a lot of drama showing up there, but watching him get heckled by a member of Congress as he left was just so strange.

Melanie Zanona live for us on Capitol Hill, thank you.

SANCHEZ: Yes. Watching those members heckle each other at different points was ...

KEILAR: Just weird, yes.

SANCHEZ: ... awkward to say the least.

Let's discuss with former federal prosecutor and host of the It's Complicated podcast, Renato Mariotti.

Renato, great to see you as always.

What did you make of the surprise appearance by Hunter Biden? Is this a good legal strategy? RENATO MARIOTTI, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: It's actually - it is complicated. So usually I would say that it makes no sense for someone who has been indicted to show up and try to make any public statements of any kind. It's usually best to remain silent. But in Hunter Biden's case, he's been charged with crimes that most people aren't charged with.

In other words, typically, if you didn't fill out the right form or made a false statement on a form about prior drug use, you're not usually - that's not usually a firearm offense that's brought by federal prosecutors. And similarly, failure to pay a rather small amount of taxes, that's usually something where you get a penalty letter, not a felony indictment.

And so I think his legal team has calculated that they need to change the public narrative surrounding Hunter Biden. And so since there was a subpoena for private testimony, they're making a big show about his willingness to speak publicly because he wants an opportunity to try to sway the jury pool, gain some sympathy and perhaps convince prosecutors that it's not worth moving forward with these charges.

KEILAR: As the DOJ considers that, they're going to want to look at, was this in good faith that he tried to negotiate an appearance before this committee. I wonder, Renato, if the behavior of members of this hearing, if that is going to be taken into account as they consider that, if perhaps they'd acted more maturely, that might have actually helped them make their case better.

MARIOTTI: I think certainly for contempt, Brianna, I think that's a very good point. In other words, for a contempt prosecution, we - if you remember, Mark Meadows was recommended or referred to the DOJ for contempt. He ultimately was not prosecuted in part because I think his lawyer convinced the Justice Department that he had made some efforts to comply.

[15:10:00]

And I think here you can bet your bottom dollar that Hunter Biden's lawyers are going to make very - the DOJ very aware that Hunter Biden was very willing to testify. But given the circus that you saw here, it's understandable that he wanted to testify publicly. At least that, I think, is the argument they're going to make.

SANCHEZ: So if you were advising him, would you advise him for that reason against a deposition in private? Would you want him to lean into doing it publicly?

MARIOTTI: I think so. I mean, Hunter Biden's in an unusual circumstance. There's no real debate about whether or not he paid or didn't pay certain types of taxes or what he said on a form. But he needs to change public opinion because there's been a very concerted campaign, public campaign against him.

And so trying to move the needle on that is probably his best move and so I think that's why his lawyers have pursued that sort of strategy. I think it's a very savvy strategy by a gifted defense attorney who I respect very much.

SANCHEZ: Renato Mariotti, appreciate the perspective. Thanks so much.

MARIOTTI: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: So in just a few hours, Republican presidential hopefuls, Ron DeSantis and Nikki Haley are going to face off for a primetime battle in Iowa right here on CNN. This is the final Republican primary debate before Monday's critical Iowa caucuses.

KEILAR: Of course, Donald Trump has a significant polling lead in the state. He did qualify, as per usual, to be on that stage tonight. But he is skipping this debate, just like all of the previous ones.

Let's preview tonight's duel with a pair of CNN political commentators. We have Geoff Duncan and Karen Finney.

What a thing to follow, all that drama, the thing you have just watched. Maybe there will be more drama tonight.

KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I was going to say.

KEILAR: What are you expecting?

GEOFF DUNCAN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I hope a lot less theater than we've seen in previous debates and certainly less theater than we're seeing in the halls of Congress today. I hope it's a more intimate setting between two individuals that are able to unpack their policies, their positions, put a good glimpse on what their leadership style looks like. But this is going to be a game of expectations, exceeding expectations.

It's certainly not going to - either one of them would be in a position to win Iowa - but certainly if they can exceed expectations, one of them, then they'll gain that momentum going into New Hampshire. And you could certainly see Nikki Haley, if she exceeds expectations here and then walks into a New Hampshire situation, which seems like it's starting to shape up. It could be a really good tailwind for her.

SANCHEZ: As you noted, the expectation for both of them, second place at best in Iowa. What does it tell you that Donald Trump hasn't shown up to any of these debates and it doesn't seem to be hurting him, Geoff?

DUNCAN: I think it's important to realize this is important for Donald Trump, too. Right? It's hard to think about this, but in 2016, Ted Cruz beat Donald Trump in Iowa, right? So he wants to perform well. He wants to really put his best foot forward. But if he underperforms here and Nikki Haley overperforms and it goes into New Hampshire, game on. This could be a reset button that none of us expected to see.

SANCHEZ: Do you think so, Karen? I just saw you raise your brow.

FINNEY: Well, only because, look, if you look at the advantages, the institutional advantages that Donald Trump has, if he wins big in Iowa, which is all about your ground game, it is all about an organizing game. And I think what you're going to hear from DeSantis and Haley tonight is a balance between encouraging Iowans to brave the cult next week and get out there.

And the other thing about caucuses is, it's hours long. It's not like you just drop off your ballot and then walk out. No, no, no, no, no. You are there - I mean, sometimes it can come down to a coin toss. That's how intense this can get. That was 2016. It was crazy.

But - so from Trump's perspective, he's hoping to have a big win in Iowa, barnstorm through New Hampshire and then beat Haley in South Carolina. I certainly think, for Haley, she could come in second, do well in New Hampshire and make an argument to donors in particular that she's got some momentum. And, hey, maybe we should have a number two waiting in the wings just in case Trump isn't actually able to fulfill - to actually be our nominee.

So it'll be interesting to see tonight how much she is trying to both talk to Iowa, talk to New Hampshire, kind of talk to that national audience as she's trying to position herself as somebody who could take on Donald Trump.

KEILAR: It's not a bad argument in an unprecedented time like now to argue that she could be waiting in the wings. Let's hear some of the closing arguments of these candidates - well, that DeSantis and Haley - these candidates that we'll be hearing from tonight are making in Iowa.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. RON DESANTIS, (R) FLORIDA, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I like being underestimated. So I could sit here and say this, but you know what? I think that being the underdog suits me better. So buckle up. I think it's going to be an interesting ride.

NIKKI HALEY, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have been waiting for this. I've done 150 plus town halls and it has come to this moment. Don't complain about what happens in a general election, if you don't play in this caucus, it matters.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: He says he likes being the underdog, but it's not particularly an envious position that he's in compared to where he was with expectations at the beginning.

[15:15:04]

I wonder what you think about as you've been kind of observing his demeanor. If you think he's being forthcoming on that.

FINNEY: Yes, not so much. But actually, his tone has shifted a little bit. I mean, he's been a little less cocky than he was at the beginning and a little bit more speaking to how much he needs people, right? Because, again, you have to remember that the caucus, you really have to have people who are willing to stay there and wait it out and support you, right? So that's critical that you've got people who are really dedicated to you, right? They can't sort of go in and be willing to just change their minds.

So, yes, I've heard him - it sounds like he's really trying to rev his folks up. And look, I think he needs a really strong showing because it becomes much harder, particularly looking at the CNN polling, to make the argument in New Hampshire beyond Iowa if he doesn't have a good showing because it doesn't look like he's going to do well in New Hampshire.

SANCHEZ: Especially to donors. The point that you were making about Haley before ...

FINNEY: Yes.

SANCHEZ: ... if she can show them she has momentum, the dollars keep flowing, the opposite could be true for him.

Geoff, I've been speaking to people in Trump's orbit and they obviously point to evangelical voters being huge in Iowa. But they say that they are closely watching suburban women because that will give them an indicator as to how serious Haley is as a potential threat. Is that a fair assessment?

DUNCAN: Yes, certainly. I mean, the suburbs are up for the pickings at this point. I mean, we've seen that play out in Georgia with all of our races. And certainly, I think they're paying attention.

It's hard for me to think the suburbs will ever come back for Donald Trump. It just feels like he's so distant from them. And I feel like there's just no chance that he's going to pull it. Evangelicals, to me, have been one of the big anomalies. I think there's going to be a lot of disappointed people in 10 years from now that supported Donald Trump. I think evangelicals may be the biggest part of that disappointed crowd when they look back at what they did and the tailwinds they gave him. It should be interesting to watch this play out.

I think we have to remind ourselves 60 percent of Republicans don't want Donald Trump to be the next president. And I think Haley and DeSantis ought to push the thrust levers forward and focus on that 60 percent in the closing days and weeks of this campaign to try to get their attention because they're not going to trick it.

If somebody has already decided Donald Trump at this point in the game is going to be the next president, you're not changing their mind.

KEILAR: Yes.

FINNEY: It would be interesting also, Donald Trump got a little bit of blowback in Iowa over his ad that he released last weekend that sort of presented him as God's choice. I mean, it was - the criticism was pretty sharp. And so it would be interesting to see how if that hurt him in Iowa, not to say that necessarily that support then goes to Haley or DeSantis, but it could give them a little bit of an opportunity to have a better showing than we might expect.

KEILAR: These five days, here we are, we'll see what is going to happen and it is close. Karen, Jeff, thank you so much to both of you. Really appreciate it.

FINNEY: Sure.

KEILAR: Hunter Biden is not the only one that House Republicans have in their crosshairs. They're also starting impeachment proceedings against Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas over the border crisis. Next, we're going to talk with Congressman Anthony D'Esposito, a Republican on the committee pushing for impeachment.

SANCHEZ: Plus, the timeline for Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin's recent hospitalization is coming into sharp focus as a group of senators are now demanding answers about who knew what and when.

We're back in just a few minutes. Stay with us.

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[15:22:34]

KEILAR: Today, the House Homeland Security Committee is holding its first hearing to consider impeaching DHS secretary, Alejandro Mayorkas. House Republicans have been targeting Mayorkas over his leadership as migrant crossings have reached record highs and the border crisis becomes a defining campaign issue.

In a statement, a committee spokesperson said it will ensure that the public is aware of the scope of Secretary Mayorkas' egregious misconduct and refusal to enforce the law, but also that this process is completed promptly and accountability is achieved swiftly as the American people have demanded.

Democrats are calling this impeachment push meritless.

Joining us now is a member of the House Homeland Security Committee, Republican Congressman from New York, Anthony D'Esposito.

Sir, thank you so much for being with us.

Why impeach Mayorkas?

REP. ANTHONY D'ESPOSITO (R-NY): Well, thanks for having me. And yes, the Homeland Security Committee, the Republicans have laid out over the last 13 months a really comprehensive review and investigation into the dereliction of duty of Secretary Mayorkas. It is clear that he has zero operational control of the southern border. We've hit - set new records here in the United States of America, and they're not ones that we should be proud of.

We've seen almost 3.8 million individuals that have come across our borders since president - the President has taken office. We have nearly 1.8 million gotaways that have come into this country. These are people that we know of that we have no idea what they're doing, who they're associating with or what they're up to.

And that's in addition to the people who have come across the southern border that we have no idea of, again, what they're doing or who they're associating with, but we can't even account for them. This is a threat to our national security. Quite frankly, he has betrayed this nation. And there were members of - even the Democrats today who said - an individual who betrays this nation deserves impeachment.

And I think everything that we've laid out over this five-phase process, and again, I'm someone who has spent a career in the NYPD most of it as an investigator. And I think the Homeland Security Committee, led by Chairman Greene, did an excellent job. It wasn't rushed. It was thorough. We laid out five phases of where Mayorkas has failed the American people and failed his oath.

KEILAR: He - those Democrats are not arguing to impeach him, just to be clear. The gotaways are an estimate, though certainly you do expect that there are a lot of folks who are not apprehended.

[15:25:05]

The latest DHS data shows that during Biden's presidency, 4 million migrants have been expelled to Mexico or returned to home countries. I do just want to mention that. I also want to mention something that your Republican colleague in the Senate, Sen. Lankford, said yesterday. Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JAMES LANKFORD (R-OK): The problem that Secretary Mayorkas has is that he's working for the President of the United States and these are the President's policies. These are the Biden policies. So the problem is President Biden's policies on the border, not Mayorkas in the way he's carrying it out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: He's saying, look, clearly you disagree with the Biden administration policies when it comes to immigration. He is saying there that this isn't about Mayorkas, that this is about Biden administration policies. What do you say to that? So why focus on Mayorkas then?

D'ESPOSITO: Well, clearly Mayorkas is following policies set forth by the Biden administration. But the last time I checked, Secretary Mayorkas is the secretary of Homeland Security. He's the one that took an oath to protect this homeland, to protect us from enemies, foreign and domestic, and he is failing.

I mean, you could look at it any which way you want. There have been polls that have been done where 75 percent of Americans have said that the southern border is a major issue and that - those just aren't Republicans. Those are Republicans, Democrats. Listen, I represent a district where Democrats outnumber Republicans by almost 80,000 and it is the biggest issue that is talked about on an everyday basis.

KEILAR: Yes.

D'ESPOSITO: We understand that this is Biden's policies, but Secretary Mayorkas took an oath. When you take an oath, you have to overcome policies like that and make decisions based on the best interests of the American people and he is not doing that. Many observers think that you are moving forward on impeachment just to impeach someone. And to that point, this is going to be going through the Homeland Security Committee because there is resistance to doing this through the Republican-led Judiciary Committee.

As you mentioned, you come from a district that is not red, right? This was a Biden district. Does that not give you pause when I talk to you about how - the process of how this has to go through, because there is resistance on the Judiciary Committee.

D'ESPOSITO: Well, let's clear something up. It was a district that Joe Biden won in 2020. It is clearly red now because we won it in 2022 and anticipate winning it again in 2024. I mean, in Nassau County, the last few elections, it is entirely red. From actually the city line out to the east end of Suffolk County, Long Island is a bright shade of red.

Does it cause me pause? No. I said that I looked at this investigation that the Homeland Security has done over the last 13 months, it was comprehensive. It was done in a manner in which we took our time and it wasn't done on a partisan basis.

I mean, you speak to individuals. Look at my home state of New York, I mean, you have the mayor of the City of New York who is a Democrat who has flat out said that this issue is going to destroy the City of New York. The governor, who is a Democrat, has said that there is no room in New York (inaudible) ...

KEILAR: In - listen, we've talked to Chicago aldermen. We've talked to a number of Democrats who are frustrated with the Biden administration. We've interviewed a number of them. But we look at what's happening today on the Hill, the drama. You have the House GOP pursuing impeachment of President Biden, pursuing impeachment of Secretary Mayorkas, floating doing that to Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin, floating doing that to A.G. Merrick Garland, shutdown threatened.

Congressman Chip Roy threatening to boot Speaker Johnson over the bipartisan spending deal. The suspension on the House floor today over some of the more conservative or right members of your House conference there. What does all of this drama accomplish for the American people? What does it accomplish for your constituents?

D'ESPOSITO: Well, I don't see when we're setting records of people coming into this country illegally. I don't think that this is a - this is a fanfare or theater. This is accomplishing that we are going to hold ...

KEILAR: How does - but ...

D'ESPOSITO: ... someone who is the secretary of Homeland Security ...

KEILAR: ... how - but how does impeaching might ...

D'ESPOSITO: ... we are going to hold them accountable. KEILAR: ... how does impeaching him do anything about that? Why not pursue some sort of bipartisan legislation, which you actually have unbelievably ...

D'ESPOSITO: There is ...

KEILAR: ... it's so rare that you actually have an avenue to do that, why not do that?

D'ESPOSITO: ... there is actual legislation that has been passed by the Republicans in the House and it was sent over to the Senate nearly 220 days ago. It's collecting dust on Chuck Schumer's desk.

KEILAR: Yes, but I mean, your legislation though ...

D'ESPOSITO: That's - if we want to talk about legislation that was sent over, that's what we're going to talk about.

KEILAR: Well, let's - then let's about it, Congressman. Let's talk about it. Your legislation that pushes asylum seekers to only legal points of entry and then does not increase any funding for that.

[15:30:03]

D'ESPOSITO: It has been 220 days.

KEILAR: It goes back to - I'm sorry ...

D'ESPOSITO: It has been 220 days since Chuck Schumer has received.