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Jeremy Saland is Interviewed about Trump's Court Case; Rep. Thomas Massie is Interviewed about a Spending Deal; FAA Announces Audit of Boeing. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired January 12, 2024 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[09:34:01]

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Donald Trump heading to Iowa this weekend after closing arguments in his $370 million civil fraud trial in New York on Thursday. The former president made himself heard through several rants in court, both in and out of court, as it turns out, using the lawsuits against him as part of a familiar campaign pitch, claiming he did nothing wrong despite an unprecedented attack against him.

Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We didn't have a jury. We had no rights to a jury.

This is a statute that's a consumer fraud statute. Never been used for anything like this before. And it's a shame.

We won this case already in the court of appeals.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: Judge Engoron has already found Trump liable for fraud and is expected to issue a decision later this month. Now it's how much money he might have to pay.

Here now is former Manhattan prosecutor Jeremy Saland with us.

So, we just talked about the fact that Donald Trump spoke outside of court and most people can do that, no problem.

[09:35:02]

But he also made a statement inside of court, which the judge had already said he was not supposed to do. So, what does the judge do in this case, and is that something that if you and I did it, would we be treated differently?

JEREMY SALAND, FORMER MANHATTAN PROSECUTOR: Absolutely, starting backwards. Absolutely. You and I would never do that. We would be fearful for it because there would be consequences for it. We would lose any credibility, whatever we did have if we said these things. And the judge specifically said, you know, to some extent, you -- stick to the facts, stick to the evidence. We're not going to talk about things beyond the four corners of this courtroom. And what did Donald Trump did? That's exactly what he did.

To a certain extent I think Judge Engoron is doing that to give Donald Trump that lead and that latitude because he knows there's going to be an appeal and he's taking some wind out of some sails. Whether or not that sort of appellate issue would have any value, you know, I don't know, but he's nonetheless giving Donald Trump that - that sort of space to make those statements, as ridiculous as they are.

SIDNER: It's interesting to sort of look at it in the context of, we're already so used to like people with power getting special treatment. And you're saying basically that's what's happening here. In part, though, it's about the appeal. So, what does Donald Trump's team do next? Like, where does this go?

SALAND: So, in New York state there's another level of court. It's the appellate division. And then, after that, what we have is a court of appeals. We can call it a mini United States Supreme Court for the state of New York. Remember, this is a state case, not a federal case. It does not go through that same track. So it goes through the state process.

SIDNER: Goes through the state process.

In the end, because the judge has already, on the merits of the case, he's already ruled. He's already said that there was fraud here and that Donald Trump is liable for the fraud. How much do you think, with all the shenanigans that have gone on in court, the judge will look at this and say, all right, is he going to do the math? Do you think that that's where this is going?

SALAND: I think he's done himself, he meaning Donald Trump, absolutely zero favors. He has hurt himself at every opportunity he can. But that's not what Donald Trump is trying to do in the courtroom. Donald Trump is appealing to these people out there in the caucuses and with the primary voters to get him to that election, to win that election.

So, we heard the statute has never been used before. We've already won. You know, I'm the victim. This is the same thing no matter where he is.

SIDNER: And the thing is, we've already won is not true. And actually he's lost this case. It is now a matter of how much money he might have to pay and whether he can do business in New York. So, this is actually a very, very big deal for the Trump family and the Trump Organization.

Thank you so much for explaining all that. We appreciate it. I am sure you will be back because there's a lot more to go on this and many other cases, Jeremy.

SALAND: We will. Great to see you.

SIDNER: All right, John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, thank you so much.

House Speaker Mike Johnson had a deal to avoid a government shutdown, but is he about to buckle to conservative pressure and go back on it all? We've got new reporting.

Plus, breaking this morning, the FAA announces an audit of all Boeing 737 Max 9 production and suppliers after that door plug blew out last week. What this means for flights going forward.

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[09:42:23]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Right now look - we have a live look at Capitol Hill as House lawmakers are getting to work as -- and also as the clock is ticking down as they're racing, once again, toward the potential of a partial government shutdown over, again, government funding once again. Not even three months into the job, House Speaker Mike Johnson is facing another huge test and challenge, mounting pressure from the right flank of his party who want deeper funding cuts, even staged a protest against the agreement that Johnson has reached with Senate Democrats over the top line spending amount.

But Johnson is also faced with the reality, he has the slimmest of slim majorities and a Democratic-controlled Senate and a Democrat in the White House.

So, where is this going to go? Is there a way to thread this needle for Republicans right now?

Let's discuss. Joining us, Republican Congressman from Kentucky, Thomas Massie, who is also a surrogate for the Ron DeSantis campaign, and we'll get to that.

Congressman, thanks for coming in.

First to your day job and the order of business right now.

REP. THOMAS MASSIE (R-KY): Yes.

BOLDUAN: Do you think Johnson is going to stick with the deal he made with Schumer on that top line number, or do you think this is headed back to square one?

MASSIE: Well, the only deal that's in law was created this summer. You know, folks were desperate to raise the debt limit. So, what happened is, the White House and the Senate agreed to real spending cuts. That's the reason I voted to raise the debt limit. It was the first time I've seen the White House and the Senate agree to cut spending.

So, we voted for that bill. Folks like myself and Jim Jordan. Not everybody on the right. It became law. Now, that is the law. The Senate and the White House, right now, have buyer's remorse, I

think. They wish they had never agreed to those spending cuts. So, what they tried to do over the Christmas and New Year's break is renegotiate the deal with the new speaker.

Now, the problem is, the speaker doesn't really have the authority, or we haven't granted him that authority, to renegotiate that deal. So, myself, and folks like Jim Jordan, we want to stick with the deal we made this summer.

Now, there are some folks who want to add to the deal and try to get a border security package in there. And I'm not sure that that's doable. It may be worth a try. But I just want to stick to the deal that was made this summer when I voted to raise the debt limit in exchange for spending cuts.

BOLDUAN: Said another way, you do not - you do not want him to stick with this top line number he's agreed with Schumer. Unclear, though, what the next step is.

You know, you - you have long been against kicking the can down the road on funding bills.

MASSIE: Yes.

BOLDUAN: These short-term spending measures, CRs for everyone's -- as everyone has come to know them.

MASSIE: Yes.

BOLDUAN: If Speaker Johnson comes to you and says, we need a short- term spending bill now because of the clock, in order to get any agreement, given the reality of a Democrat Senate and a Democrat in the White House, or government shuts down, which one are you OK with?

[09:45:15]

MASSIE: Here's what I've proposed to - to the speaker yesterday, let's do a long-term CR. Why do we keep doing these short-term CRs and creating these crises for the American people. Let's do a CR that goes all the way to September 30th and be done with it. That's - that's what I put on the table. And I think that would make us the adults in the room. We would be the responsible party.

The reality is --

BOLDUAN: Is he open to it?

MASSIE: He is open to it.

The question is, are the military hawks in our own party, who desperately want to increase spending, they want to increase military spending and they're willing to increase domestic spending, would they go for the CR. And it looks like they don't want a CR at all. So, they're the ones who are actually creating this crisis for the American people. BOLDUAN: Well, because it could lead to -- let's not get too far in

the weeds if we can try.

MASSIE: Yes.

BOLDUAN: It would lead to cuts, not increases in spending, which - which people are - are looking at.

MASSIE: Correct.

BOLDUAN: So, we're going to put that into the TBD - TBD category.

Three days to the Iowa caucuses. You have been campaigning with Ron DeSantis.

MASSIE: Yes.

BOLDUAN: He calls himself an underdog. If he loses in Iowa, is not a close second, do you think he should drop out?

MASSIE: Oh, absolutely not. This is early in the race. There's a lot of bumps in the road between now and the convention. Remember, folks are going after the favorite in this race, Trump, with all this lawfare, I'll call it. And he's not at 50 percent.

I think - you know, I think Ron DeSantis can win in Iowa without winning Iowa if he keeps the president to a low number and shows what we see in the debates and what I've seen on the ground campaigning with him, which is, he's doing better in Iowa than these polls indicate. And I think we're going to find that out.

I'm - I'm getting my long johns and my gloves ready to fly to Iowa this weekend, and we're going to finish the - finish it this weekend.

BOLDUAN: I know you are from the Midwest, just like me, when you call them long johns, which I appreciate.

On the debate stage, on Wednesday, Nikki Haley criticized DeSantis for having you as a surrogate. I want to play this moment for everyone.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NIKKI HALEY (R), 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's really rich that Ron is going to act like he suddenly cares for Israel when he brought the person to Iowa that's the most anti-Israel Republican in the state. The person that went and voted against Israel's right to exist in Congress. The person that voted with the squad against anti- Semitism on college campuses.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, Governor.

HALEY: And you brought that person to --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, Governor.

HALEY: To Iowa to go and - and campaign with you at -- UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Governor --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: You'd responded on Twitter by saying, "I'm living in Nikki Haley's head rent-free, and, trust me, there's plenty of empty space in there."

What are you saying there, Congressman?

MASSIE: Well, look, she hasn't read the bills that I voted against. A lot of Democrats voted with me on that bill because we believe in freedom of speech and we don't think that the federal --

BOLDUAN: On one of them. On one of them.

MASSIE: A -

BOLDUAN: She listed out - she listed out a couple.

MASSIE: Right.

BOLDUAN: And I have - and I - and I - and I promise you, I have read all of them. The resolutions are actually really not that long.

MASSIE: There - there are 19 resolutions. The first resolution is like six pages long and it tries to expand the - the conflict to Iran. I -- you know, she's never seen a war she didn't like and she's against free speech. So, you know, if she wants to hit me on that, she should talk about the facts instead of trying to characterize me as anti- Semitic.

As Ron DeSantis said in the debate, that was cheap garbage.

BOLDUAN: On one of the issue she's raising, as you've noted there are multiple resolutions. On one of the resolutions you were the only person to vote against the statement made by the House in November that reaffirmed the right of Israel to exist. How is that not anti- Israel?

MASSIE: Because inside of that resolution they equate anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism. There are --

BOLDUAN: They do not. They do not.

MASSIE: There are millions of Jews that agree with me on that. In fact, to make it even more clear -

BOLDUAN: They don't. That - that resolution in November, and we can go through them, that resolution in November, it was straight-forward -

MASSIE: Yes, go through them.

BOLDUAN: Reaffirms the state of Israel's right to exist, recognizes that denying Israel's right to exist is a form of anti-Semitism. It does not note - MASSIE: The - there you go. There you go.

BOLDUAN: It does - it does not -

MASSIE: That is it.

BOLDUAN: It does not say anti-Zionism.

MASSIE: And then - and then in a subsequent -

BOLDUAN: And it also notably - Congressman, one second.

MASSIE: Kate, let me speak.

BOLDUAN: No, no, no, I absolutely will.

MASSIE: In a subsequent resolution they clarified it.

BOLDUAN: I was going to get to that.

MASSIE: They clarified it in a subsequent resolution to say anti- Zionism is anti-Semitism.

BOLDUAN: And by "they" it was actually a different group who did. So, let me be really clear on the first --

MASSIE: No, Congress. It's the same Congress that passed that resolution.

BOLDUAN: I understand. I understand. I understand. But what I'm getting at, let's go step by step then. On the first resolution in November, nowhere in there does it say --

MASSIE: OK. It -

BOLDUAN: That -- that anti-Zionism is anti --

MASSIE: Take - take anti-Zionism - take anti-Zionism off the table, OK.

BOLDUAN: But -- give me one second.

MASSIE: Denying -- if - if you question Israel --

BOLDUAN: Congressman, let's talk about this.

[09:50:01]

MASSIE: If you have harsh criticism for Israel -

BOLDUAN: Let's talk about this. Let's talk about this.

MASSIE: That doesn't mean you're anti-Semite. Look, half -- at least half your viewers agree with me on this.

BOLDUAN: I understand that you're getting - that - that you're passionate about what you want to say. Let me ask the question then you can respond.

Nowhere in that resolution where you were the only member to vote against, one other member voted, Rashida Tlaib, voted present. Nowhere in there does it say that criticism of Israeli policy is anti-Semitic. Do you think -- do you think Israel has a right to exist?

MASSIE: Oh, absolutely, they have a right to exist. Look at my social media posts. I started out explaining that vote by saying, Israel has the right to exist.

BOLDUAN: So then - please talk to me.

MASSIE: Because I don't vote on the names of resolution, Kate.

BOLDUAN: You don't -- it's not the name of the resolution. Congressman, I -

MASSIE: I vote on what's in the resolution.

BOLDUAN: I prom -- this is not a gotcha in any way, shape or form.

MASSIE: Oh, I know.

BOLDUAN: I know you can respect how serious I am about the research I do on these things.

MASSIE: I - I love getting to - I love being able to discuss this with you.

BOLDUAN: The week later they did -- there was a resolution that did equate anti-Zionism to anti - to being anti-Semitic. And in that, 92 Democrats voted present in protests, 13 Democrats voted against it. Jerry Nadler, Daniel Goldman, Jamie Raskin, they spoke out against it. The Jewish members did speak out against that.

MASSIE: Correct. And they - and --

BOLDUAN: The week before - the - the week before you were the only one to vote against.

MASSIE: Right.

BOLDUAN: Did you not read it?

MASSIE: I read it. And they came to me and said, gee, you're brave. We'd like to vote the way you're voting, but this is -- this is a political gotcha.

And so then a week later, a lot of them didn't have the courage to vote no. As you pointed out they voted present. And that's the difference between me and these other folks up here. I have the courage. I'll come on your show and take the heat, but I'll also talk about what's in that resolution. And Nikki Haley --

BOLDUAN: Recognizing that denying Israel's right to exist is a form of anti-Semitism. MASSIE: That's the name of the -

BOLDUAN: You can't - you - you do - you do not support -

MASSIE: That's the name of the resolution.

BOLDUAN: You do not - you do not support that?

MASSIE: Congratulations.

BOLDUAN: I'm not reading the name of the resolution.

MASSIE: Congratulations, you are able to read the name of the resolution. I don't vote on the names.

BOLDUAN: Oh. Oh, Congressman, I don't think you're wanting - I don't think you're trying to question my intelligence now, are you?

MASSIE: No, I'm just saying you don't have time to prepare for this like I did.

BOLDUAN: Do you mean the two pages that I read in two minutes this morning and highlighted, the resolve that the House of Representatives?

MASSIE: Yes, you took two minutes.

BOLDUAN: Oh.

MASSIE: You're -- good for you. You took two minutes. There have been 19 resolutions. I know what's in all of them. I studied them. And I say right on social media, if you'd done a little more research, you wouldn't have to ask me if I acknowledge Israel's right to exist. It's right there on my social media.

BOLDUAN: I just asked you. I - I -- I can read your - I've read your social media.

MASSIE: OK.

BOLDUAN: I also think, given the -- what is stated in this resolution, it is worthy of re-asking.

MASSIE: I enjoy this - this dialogue. I hope I get to come back on and talk about what's in these bills again.

BOLDUAN: In these resolutions and in these statements made by Congress and in this resolution, where everyone but you voted against, voted in support of. I'm happy to have you on anytime to discuss. And we'll continue to do my research.

MASSIE: OK.

BOLDUAN: And do not appreciate when someone even suggests or insinuates that I'm not prepared.

MASSIE: I'm going to suggest that you didn't have time to do the research that I've done. You did some research.

BOLDUAN: Congressman Massie, thank you for coming on.

MASSIE: Thank you, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Sara.

SIDNER: That was enlightening.

Thank you, Kate.

Waking nightmare. That's what Alaska Airlines passengers are calling their ordeal in a new lawsuit against Boeing. Now you'll see that picture there, that refrigerator-size hole in that Alaska Airlines flight. How the company is now responding, and the investigations that have been launched.

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[09:57:25]

BERMAN: All right, just in, the FAA just announced it will audit Boeing's production lines and suppliers for its 737 Max 9 planes. That was a type of plane where the door plug blew out last week.

CNN's Pete Muntean following this for us.

Pete, what does this all mean?

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Two rare announcements from the FAA. Each significant. And put together they mean the probe of Friday's in-flight blow is getting bigger, now going way beyond the incident itself and asking what a lot of people want to know, is there a bigger problem at Boeing. The FAA just announced it will audit the Boeing 737 Max 9 production line. That was the plane involved in last Friday's incident. As you mentioned, all 171 of those planes remain grounded in the U.S.

The audit will focus on Boeing and its suppliers. And that is key because a contractor, Spirit AeroSystems, builds the fuselage. This is in addition to the investigation into Boeing's quality control that the FAA announced yesterday.

And here's what the FAA said in its announcement of that investigation. It said, "this incident should have never happened and it cannot happen again. Boeing's manufacturing practices need to comply with the high safety standards they're legally accountable to meet.

Remember, this investigation is focusing on the Boeing 737 Max 9 door plug. That is the part of Alaska 1282 that blew out a week ago. And since then both Alaska Airlines and United Airlines found issues with their door plugs. United said it found loose bolts related to possible installation issues. Still a very controlled media message from Boeing. It says this is a result of an escape of quality control.

John.

BERMAN: All right, Pete Muntean following this for us. Pete, keep us posted. Thank you.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Coming up still for us, blizzard conditions force candidates to cancel events across Iowa today. Exactly what they never want to do days before votes. And now candidates are worrying about what these dramatic sub-zero temperatures are going to mean for the caucuses, for turnout come Monday.

We'll be right back.

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