Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

Texas Military Dept. Doubles Down on Blocking Boarder Patrol from Accessing Parts of Southern U.S. Border; Interview with Rep. Seth Moulton (D-MA): Biden Criticized for Striking Yemen Without Congressional Approval; Biden Administration Will Seek Death Penalty for Buffalo Mass Shooter. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired January 12, 2024 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Tensions along the southern U.S. border are growing between Texas Governor Greg Abbott and the Biden administration. The Texas military department is blocking federal Border Patrol agents from doing their job by barring access to miles of the border in Eagle Pass.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: The state military has also taken over a park to use as a migrant staging area.

We have CNN's Rosa Flores joining us with more on these tensions. Rosa, one former Homeland Security official called Abbott's action just mind-blowing. How is the White House responding?

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the White House is condemning these actions by the state of Texas just like they've condemned prior actions like the deployment of the border buoys and the razor wire and also the busing of migrants to northern cities.

But the White House issuing a statement saying in part, quote: Governor Abbott continues his extreme political stunts that not only seek to demonize and dehumanize people, but that also make it harder and more dangerous for Border Patrol to do their jobs.

But let me get you up to speed as to how all of this started. It was Wednesday evening when Texas authorities started putting up razor wire fencing and gates around a public park, shocking local officials.

Well, the situation escalated when the state of Texas took the extraordinary step of blocking Border Patrol from that public park, not only from that public park, which Border Patrol uses the boat launch at that public park to launch their boats to get access to the Rio Grande, but also to a staging area that they use during migrant surges and also to miles of the river.

And the Texas military department, which are the state authorities that are there, doubling down saying that they're not giving Border Patrol access.

Saying in part in a statement, quote: The current posture is to prepare for future illegal immigrant surges and to restrict access to organizations that perpetuate illegal immigration crossings in a city park at the Rio Grande and the greater Eagle Pass area.

But Governor Abbott taking it a step further today during a press conference, saying that the state of Texas has the authority to do this. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. GREG ABBOTT (R-TX): So Texas has the legal authority to control ingress and egress into any geographic location in the state of Texas, and that authority is being asserted with regard to that park in Eagle Pass, Texas, to maintain operational control.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FLORES: Now, the Biden administration is asking the U.S. Supreme Court to intervene so that Border Patrol can regain access to this area.

And Boris and Brianna, I got to add, one of the other important things is the backdrop of all of this. The numbers at the U.S. southern border have plummeted significantly. Apprehensions back in mid- December were about 10,000 migrants a day along the U.S. southern border. That dropped to about 3,000 per day in January.

Now, in Eagle Pass, the epicenter of all this latest battle, they're about 500 per day this week. And so that also raises questions about why is the state of Texas doing this at this point in time? Back to you guys.

SANCHEZ: Yes, Rosa Flores, thank you so much for the update.

President Biden is facing sharp criticism from progressive Democrats for authorizing those airstrikes on Iranian-backed militants in Yemen.

KEILAR: We're going to be speaking with Congressman Seth Moulton, who is an Iraq war veteran, about the impact of these strikes and whether the president had the authority to carry them out.

[15:35:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: The White House is dismissing backlash, not just from Republicans but from some progressive Democrats, for not going to Congress before ordering strikes in Yemen. The retaliatory move on Houthi rebels was in response to more than two dozen attacks on shipping lanes in the Red Sea.

Democrats say that President Biden, I should say some Democrats say that President Biden failed to follow the Constitution by not getting congressional approval. But this afternoon, an official said the White House is, quote, confident and comfortable in its authority to strike.

We have Congressman Seth Moulton joining us now. He's a Democrat from Massachusetts. He served four tours in Iraq and he sits on the House Armed Services Committee. Congressman, thank you so much for being with us. Obviously, you

support the president's decision on the strikes. Your colleagues, some of them, including Pramila Jayapal, who is chair of the Progressive Caucus, said, if there's time to build an international coalition, there should have been time to come to Congress.

What do you say to that point?

[15:40:00]

REP. SETH MOULTON (D-MA): I say that the president is doing exactly what he is supposed to do. He's following the War Powers Act, which states very explicitly that the president has the authority to conduct strikes like this to protect U.S. national security.

And, of course, he's not just protecting U.S. national security. He's protecting the national security of the 55 different nations that have been targeted by these terrorist attacks. He's doing it in concert with some of our strongest allies, including the United Kingdom. So he's fully within his constitutional powers.

What the War Powers Act says is that the president has 48 hours to notify Congress, and the strikes can't continue for more than 60 days. He's following both the letter and the spirit of the law so far.

KEILAR: At what point, then, does he need to ask Congress for approval? And do you understand that process to be underway? Because this doesn't seem to be a short-term thing.

MOULTON: Yes, I do. I think that he is -- first of all, he has to notify Congress in 48 hours. That process is underway. And then within the next 60 days, if he wants this operation to continue, he's going to have to come to Congress to ask for support.

But look, the Republican-led House right now can't even pass the simplest procedural votes. The House came to a standstill again this week on a procedural vote, just to get to the vote to actually vote yea or nay, on a piece of legislation.

So expecting that the House of Representatives, under this Republican leadership, is going to secure the security of the -- the national security of the United States, that's a longshot right now. I'm embarrassed to say that, as a member of the House myself.

But that's part of the context here for why the president just had to take decisive action, which is exactly what the administration did.

KEILAR: It is not a highly functional body. I think that is certainly noted by what we've seen this week and other weeks.

So, at first -- at first it was carrier strike groups going to the region for deterrence. Then you had special ops advisory assistance at a pretty high level that then quickly got out of Dodge, out of Israel. Then you had U.S. strikes in Syria against proxies, in Iraq including one in Baghdad, now what we've seen in Yemen overnight.

The U.S. says it doesn't want to make this a broader conflict. But isn't it kind of already a broader conflict?

MOULTON: Well, it's not just that we don't want to make it a broader conflict. We're actively working to prevent it from becoming a broader conflict. And I think that's the most important reason why the president took this action. There are a lot of militant groups like the Houthis in Yemen who are trying escalation. They are trying to instigate a broader regional war.

That's what these terrorist groups want. Hamas has been very explicit in this. They want the other terrorist groups in the region to join in.

And so what the United States is doing with its presence and with these deterrent strikes is saying that's not going to happen. You act up, you conduct terrorist activities against peaceful international shipping, we're going to hit you back and prevent that from happening again.

So there are people who will say that this is escalation. I think it's exactly the opposite. It's deterrence. It's exactly the message we need to send to these militant groups, to these terrorists in the Middle East that this kind of violence won't stand and we're not going to allow it to instigate a broader regional war.

KEILAR: So to your point about Hezbollah, you have Israel striking a Hamas leader in Beirut. It's been targeting missiles over the border in Lebanon. Netanyahu visited Israel's border with Lebanon, talked with -- talked about giving Hezbollah a taste of what Israel has given Hamas.

Do you worry that Israel is going to cross the line and make this a bigger war?

MOULTON: Look, I think that is a legitimate concern. I don't think it's in Israel's interests to have a broader regional war. But I do think there is diplomacy going on behind the scenes, Brianna, to say to the Israelis, be careful.

So there are a lot of ways in which the U.S. presence in the region right now is preventing a wider regional conflict.

It's slapping down these terrorist attacks, the Houthis from Yemen as we saw last night, the terrorist attacks in Iraq against U.S. troops. It's having close consultation with our allies, including the Israelis, saying you've got to tread carefully here and not spark a wider conflict.

There are a lot of ways in which the U.S. is playing an important role here because we don't want a broader Middle East war.

KEILAR: Congressman Moulton, thank you so much for joining us. We appreciate it.

MOULTON: Good to see you, Brianna.

KEILAR: Good to see you. Nearly two years after a gunman entered a supermarket in Buffalo, New York, and killed 10 black people, the Justice Department has announced it is seeking the death penalty for the shooter. Next, we're going to speak with the son of a woman who was killed in that attack about why he has mixed emotions about that decision.

[15:45:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Now to a major update in a story that we've been following very closely. The Biden administration today announced it's going to seek the death penalty for the gunman who killed 10 black people in a racist massacre at a Buffalo supermarket in 2022.

It marks the first time Biden's Justice Department has sought the death penalty, and victims' families are having mixed reactions. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHELLE FRYSON, RELATIVE OF BUFFALO SHOOTING VICTIMS PEARL YOUNG AND MARGUS MORRISON: It just shows the privilege once again. Once again, he's protected in federal custody. Once again, they got to decide which jail he would be remanded to, which is now federal. So to never have closure and to always be in this circus is exhausting and exasperating.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[15:45:00]

KEILAR: Joining us now is Mark Talley, whose mother, Geraldine Talley, was killed in the shooting. Mark is now the executive director and the founder of Agents for Advocacy. He's also the author of the book "5/14, The Day the Devil Came to Buffalo." Mark, thank you so much for joining us. You have been through so much. Your family has been through so much. You don't necessarily support DOJ's decision here. Tell us why.

MARK TALLEY, SON OF BUFFALO SHOOTING VICTIM GERALDINE TALLEY: Speaking for myself, I disagree with the decision that was made today. Now, in no way am I angry about it, because I'm not. At the end of the day, this white supremacist's life will be coming to an end. I just don't necessarily like how it's going to come to an end. I mean, he's going to know his death day eventually. He's going to be given a date in which he'll no longer be here.

On 5/14, Geraldine Talley, my mother, didn't know this would be her last day on Earth. Celestine Chaney didn't know this would be her last day on Earth. Ruth Whitfield didn't know this would be her last day on Earth. Zaire Goodman didn't know that this would be the day he'll get shot and have bullet fragments still in his body. That's going to affect him for the rest of his life.

So I feel, you know, why does this white supremacist who committed this act of racist domestic terrorism, he gets that privilege to know when he's going to die? For me, I would love for him to rot in a supermax prison or stay here in county jail somewhere near the city in which he caused all of this hate and chaos.

I want him to constantly be surrounded by the same individuals that he tried to kill. I want every second of the rest of his life to be in constant turmoil, not knowing that this is going to be the day that somebody tries to kill him because he tried to kill people that look like me. I want him to constantly fear that this could be the day he's going to die.

I want him to constantly know that he's going to be assaulted, possibly assaulted by multiple individuals with no guards around. I want everything and everyone that he's ever loved to suffer. I want people who had any idea what type of monster this person was.

I want the person who sold him this semi-automatic illegally modified weapon. I want all of these people to suffer. I want his life, the rest of whatever life he has, to be filled with pain, misery, and just unimaginable suffering.

And for as long as I'm living, whether that be 20 years or whether that be another 60 years, I want to personally see him suffer to the point that he can't take it no more. But I just feel for him to be given his day of death, I think this is a coward's way out. And just very disrespectful to the families of 5/14 and anybody affected by 5/14.

SANCHEZ: And Mark, I understand that you and other victims' families met with the Justice Department and they explained their decision. I'm wondering how they presented it to you and what the reaction was like inside the room.

TALLEY: I mean, they definitely did present it very professionally. I really can't speak for none of the other families. I just know for me, you know, it was a stump in the heart. You know, I feel he should be able to rot and decay and harden into the piece of you-know-what that he is.

You know, not waiting patiently in federal custody to die, peacefully until it's time to die. He should be surrounded by the people that he tried to kill.

KEILAR: Mark, tell us a little bit about your mom.

TALLEY: Very Southern. Loved her family, loved her friends. Even though I was an adult, she still treated me like her little boy, little baby.

It's hard to kind of, you know, replace those memories or it's just hard to cherish those memories with somebody who's no longer around. And especially how she was a victim of racist domestic terrorism that was spread all throughout on the Internet.

SANCHEZ: Mark Talley, we're so sorry for all that you and your family have endured. We're grateful for you sharing your story with us. We hope you would consider coming back as we get more information on the future of the shooter that was involved. Mark Talley, thank you so much for the time.

TALLEY: No problem. Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Of course.

Stay with CNN. We're back in just moments.

[15:55:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Get this, e-commerce giant eBay is going to pay a $3 million criminal penalty after the company was charged with stalking a Massachusetts couple, after eBay employees sent frightening packages to this couple, including live spiders, cockroaches, a bloody pig mask, even a funeral wreath they sent to the home of Ina and David Steiner back in 2019.

[16:00:05]

KEILAR: Yes, file this under truth is stranger than fiction. The acting U.S. attorney said that eBay's senior then-senior director of safety and security, Jim Bowe, was out to protect the company's reputation and silence the couple's reporting. The couple published an insider newsletter for eBay sellers and others in e-commerce. Bowe was sentenced to more than four years in prison.

Six other employees faced felony convictions for their involvement, facing all sorts of charges, even putting tracking devices on the Steiner's cards and posting ads for fake sexual encounters at the couple's home. eBay has apologized. A bunch of people got fired, too.

KEILAR: Yes, insane story.

All right, "THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts right now.

SANCHEZ: Great note to end on.