Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

Trump Back In Court After Big Iowa Win; GOP Candidates Turn To New Hampshire After Trump's Historic Win In Iowa. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired January 16, 2024 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:25]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm John Berman in New York. Kate Bolduan is in New Hampshire. These are the two states where the Republican presidential campaign is taking place today. You surprised I said New York?

Donald Trump's first campaign stopped after winning the Iowa caucuses, a federal court here in New York. His motorcade arrived just minutes ago. This is the first day of a trial where a jury will determine how much Trump must pay E. Jean Carroll for defaming her after she accused him of raping and sexually assaulting her. This is where Donald Trump is taking his campaign today.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: And we're going to have more on that legal battle and where Trump is going to be in court. We're going to have much more on that in a moment. But let's talk about why I'm here in the great state of New Hampshire today, because Iowa was yesterday, New Hampshire is today and the political -- the focus of the political universe now lands squarely here, after Donald Trump's big win, dominant win in Iowa yesterday.

We have big news, it's just dropped. Nikki Haley now suggesting that there may no longer be any debates coming this week. Her campaign releasing a statement that read, let me read this. We've had five great debates in this campaign. Unfortunately, Donald Trump has ducked all of them. He has nowhere left to hide. The next debate I do, Nikki Haley says, will either be with Donald Trump or with Joe Biden. I look forward to it. Obviously suggesting she's no longer interested in debating Ron DeSantis.

That decision comes as the first official results of the 2024 primary are in, and everyone is working through what the numbers out of Iowa now mean for New Hampshire, and beyond. The Iowa caucuses, the results there, and Donald Trump's big win, are answering some of the questions that have been swirling for quite some time like would Donald Trump break 50% in Iowa? He did. Would any of his rivals drop out? One did. And is a Trump-Biden match looking more likely today? It is.

President Biden's team watching all of this very closely. The President saying this about Trump's Iowa win, it's clear Donald Trump is the official front runner. We need to work even harder now, that from President Biden. And here was Donald Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: People in our country are great, they're all great. We love Iowa but they're all great. They only want to see one thing, they want our country to come back. They're embarrassed by what's going on. Our country is laughed at all over the world laughing at us. And they want our country to come back. They want America, you know, they want us to be great again. It's a very simple, MAGA, Make America Great Again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: That was last night. Donald Trump, Nikki Haley, Ron DeSantis, all have events scheduled here in New Hampshire. Vivek Ramaswamy might be here but he won't be campaigning for himself. He suspended his campaign after a disappointing fourth place finish in Iowa, and he quickly turned around and endorsed Donald Trump.

CNN's Kristen Holmes here with me in Manchester, flying overnight together with me. What are you hearing about from the Trump campaign? What are you hearing how the candidates are refocusing and what they're saying as they wake up with a whole new reality this morning.

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hearing from Trump's advisors, this is really the ideal scenario for them. To have Ron DeSantis come in second place, to win by a large enough margin, to set the tone, to have Ron DeSantis come in second place ahead of New Hampshire to kind of stem any momentum that they were seeing Haley have in New Hampshire. Because Ron DeSantis doesn't really have a path in New Hampshire, he hasn't really spent any money here. It's not something that they're worried about with him.

The other part of this that is key is Vivek Ramaswamy. I know from senior advisors that they believe that his voters are actually also Trump voters. They've actually attended some of his events here in New Hampshire. They think that he was more popular than possibly polls were leading on, so they think this is a good thing for them.

Now, the other candidates, this also is going to extend their lifeline. Ron DeSantis coming in second, set of third after pouring everything into that. Nikki Haley, knowing that she's probably going to have a strong showing in New Hampshire, here's what they said last night.

[09:05:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RON DESANTIS (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I can tell you because of your support in spite of all of that that they threw at us, everyone against us we've got our ticket punched out of Iowa.

NIKKI HALEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Tonight, I will make this Republican primary a two person race. Our campaign is the last best hope of stopping the Trump Biden nightmare.

(END VIDEO CLIP) HOLMES: So, Nikki Haley, we know that Trump's campaign is watching her polarize very carefully here in New Hampshire. Again, they're hoping that his big win in Iowa gives him the momentum going to the state. They're also hoping it slows down her momentum, but it's not going to stop them.

He was only supposed to have two events here ahead of the primary. It was going to be over the weekend. He now has events four, four events that four days of the week -- yes. Only one event, not one day not having an event when he's going down to Florida for Melania as mother's funeral. So he clearly is paying attention.

The campaign, the super PAC, all pouring millions of dollars already into New Hampshire hitting Nikki Haley, particularly on immigration. They think that's going to be key for them here in this state. So they are watching this carefully. But again, good night last night for former President Donald Trump.

BOLDUAN: It is interesting because Nikki Haley was really hammering immigration and border security in her -- in sign of kind of her closing argument in Iowa. Clearly, it's going to be a very big issue.

BERMAN: Well, they're looking at all comments. They have a comment that she said in 2015, where she said essentially that illegal immigrants weren't criminals or shouldn't be treated as criminals. And they are cutting that clip and playing it over and over, and over again. And that's where they're hitting her. And they think that immigration, particularly in New Hampshire, is one of the key issues.

So they also have another ad running on Social Security, another important issue, but when I talk to the advisors, immigration that they're going to really hammer home here.

BOLDUAN: That's really interesting. And we're also seeing kind of a shift in that soundbite, a shift to maybe a harsher, more direct Nikki Haley taking on Donald Trump. Let's see what happens today. It's great to see you. Thank you.

Programming for all of you, CNN town hall with Ron DeSantis tonight 9:000 PM Eastern, it's all live here in New Hampshire. Wolf Blitzer moderating that debate, you won't want to miss it. That's 9:00 PM Eastern. John?

BERMAN: All right. So what does Donald Trump's win in Iowa mean, especially for New Hampshire and going forward? First of all, as you can see here, Donald Trump won 98 of the 99 counties in Iowa. And the one county where he currently trails, he trails Nikki Haley by one vote, one single vote. And the win was dominant in all 99 counties.

Let me show you the counties where Donald Trump won by more than 10%, OK? Everywhere except two counties, the county where Nikki Haley leaves by one vote and this county right here, Story County where Iowa State is right there. His lead there four points. So he was just dominant everywhere. In one sense, you can't tell much more of a story than that among every demographic group, every geographic location. So a better way maybe of looking at what Iowa means maybe to look at one of the other candidates here. So let's X out where Donald Trump was.

And let's see where Nikki Haley finished second. Everywhere in red here is where Nikki Haley finished second. I want to highlight one place where she did not finish second. That was Polk County where Des Moines is, the capital. Donald Trump won there by a significant amount of 11 points. But you can see Nikki Haley trailed Ron DeSantis. Why am I bringing up Des Moines and Polk County, because this is an urban and suburban area.

New Hampshire looks more like this county maybe than any other county. Actually, if I go right here, Dallas County also, it's the county where she came in second, but barely. This was the county that saw the greatest growth over the last 10 years. It's a suburban county. This is what New Hampshire looks like. And Nikki Haley barely edging out Ron DeSantis here trailing Donald Trump by a significant amount.

Let's look actually at New Hampshire because that's where the story is now moving. That's what we should be talking about right now more than anything else. Nikki Haley, as I said, those urban and suburban areas in Iowa with large amounts of independent voters, that's the group she wants to target in New Hampshire, why?

This is the voter registration in New Hampshire. You can see Republican 268,000, Democrat 262,000. This is the important number, undeclared 343,000, more than Republicans or Democrats. Republicans and undeclared can vote in the Republican primary. A lot of them are Independent, a lot of them are moderate. It's a big group, Nikki Haley wants to target them.

But in Iowa, again, our entrance polls show that Donald Trump lead among Independents. They make up a big part of this group. Donald Trump leading in that group as we head into New Hampshire.

Finally, one number I want to highlight that might be a warning sign for Donald Trump in Iowa was the turnout. We're looking at a turnout right now of about 110,000, that's not a lot. That's way less than 2016, which was 187,000. It's less than 2012, which was 122,000.

[09:10:14]

And remember, this was the only game in town. There was no real Democratic caucus, so Independents might show up here. This could show now, I know it was cold., it was very cold, but this could show an enthusiasm gap as we head into these other primaries. That's what we'll be looking for.

So as I said, Donald Trump heading to New Hampshire ultimately today, but not before he campaigns here in New York at a federal courthouse. There is a trial here. This is his campaign stop. Senior legal affairs correspondent Paula Reid is here with us now to talk about what's in store court today. Paula?

PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, in just a few minutes here, a jury will be selected to determine if Trump should pay damages to E. Jean Carroll, about comments that he made denying that he raped her in a department store in the 1990s. Now these specific statements are from 2019 when he was, of course, president. And this specific statement, there has been litigation related to this whether he had possible immunity, because you may be thinking, wait, didn't we already have a trial on this exact issue? Yes, we did.

Last year, early last year, there was a trial and a jury found that Trump was liable for sexual abuse and defamation, and awarded her $5 million over her claim that Trump raped her in a department store in the mid '90s and then defamed her. Now this time around, the judge said, look, we're not going to re litigate, are those bigger questions about what happened in the department store or if she was defamed.

He says that that decision, that verdict carries over. So instead, this jury is just going to look at damages. E. Jean Carroll is asking for $10 million. This should only take a few days for a trial like this, but the big difference is Trump wants to participate this time. Last year he did not participate at all in this trial. But this time around, as you noted, while he's on the campaign trail, he is expected to be there today for jury selection. It's unclear how many other days he will attend. There's also a possibility he will testify.

But the judge has put some restrictions some guardrails on what he could say. Again, they're not really litigating what happened in the department store. Instead, this is just about damages. But, John, I think what the former president is going to see today is this is federal court, and it's jury selection. There is no role for him. There are no reporters and cameras roaming the hall. There's no pool spray at the top. So if he wants to get some limelight today, he's likely going to have to hold a press avail at one of his nearby properties. Because federal court, again, no cameras, very little transparency, so not a lot of attention to get inside a building like this or proceeding like this.

BERMAN: We just got word that E. Jean Carroll has arrived at these proceedings, so she's there. Donald Trump's motorcade is there. For this campaign stop, Paula Reid, thank you very much.

Donald Trump right here right now in New York and federal court. Let's go back to New Hampshire, the other campaign location today. Kate Baldwin is there. Kate?.

BOLDUAN: It really is a perfect framing, John, about how the courtroom is the campaign and talking about it that way. It really is perfect. Let's also now talk more about the new political reality that all of the candidates are waking up to and now facing, as they hit the trail, once again. Here with me now is CNN's Jeff Zeleny, also with us CNN political commentator, former lieutenant governor of Georgia, Geoff Duncan, and Pete Seat, former White House spokesperson for George W. Bush, also vice president of Bose Public Affairs Group, most importantly, a son of Indiana, the most important part of your bio, Pete. Let's get to it.

So, Jeff, let's talk about Nikki Haley and this statement that she put out during the campaign put out this morning, suggesting that she's no longer interested in debating Ron DeSantis at all. Her next debate is going to either by against Donald Trump or Joe Biden, is what she says. She's really trying to make this two person race.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: She definitely is. And she said that last night in her speech in Iowa, sounded like she was giving the same speech she would have given if she actually won second place. She didn't.

BOLDUAN: So true.

ZELENY: She came in third but she said, look, it's a two person race. It's something that Governor Sununu has been saying here in New Hampshire for quite some time. It's a two person race. It's still not quite been. The governor of Florida, Ron DeSantis, is in South Carolina today. So it's a three person race.

We'll see. I mean, I guess it makes some sense for her not to engage in DeSantis in terms of debating. But one question I have, the debate is on WMUR, the main TV station here in New Hampshire. It's a tradition. Maybe traditions don't matter anymore like they used to, I'm not sure, but we'll see if she gets any blowback for that.

Look, she's trying to look forward, trying to focus on Donald Trump and her electability argument with the President Biden.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. Lieutenant governor, what do you think of this move as a campaign tactic, if you will, saying basically, essentially, I'm no longer interested in standing on the debate stage with Ron DeSantis. I'm looking past him. What do you think of this and announcing it this morning?

[09:15:01]

GEOFF DUNCAN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, she's certainly posturing with strength. She started in her speech last night. I mean, you know, she really spoke as though she finished in second place. And quite honestly, I think everybody would admit she does have the best chance to beat Donald Trump and his primary process.

Now, last night, it got a lot more difficult in that process to try to beat him. I mean, things have got to really line up. And one of the things plaguing her campaign, and it's nothing she can do about it, is that Joe Biden's numbers continue to be so bad that that Republicans that are sitting on the fence about Donald Trump don't feel any threat that Joe Biden is going to beat Donald Trump.

If those numbers were tighter, I think we would have seen a different outcome. But, look, this perfect storm off Republican island is continuing to form again, the most morally corrupt or bankrupt individual. If any other candidate in any other race was showing up at a courthouse for what Donald Trump is showing up for today, they would be plummeting in the polls by the minute.

BOLDUAN: And that's not the reality of what we're looking at, Pete. Can you manifest a two person race? I'm fascinated by this move by Nikki Haley this morning.

PETE SEAT, VICE PRESIDENT, BOSE PUBLIC AFFAIRS GROUP: Well, we've heard all sorts of great one liners coming out of Iowa and New Hampshire over the years. Remember Bill Clinton, The Comeback Kid, they try to spin and spin, and spin to build a narrative that is good for them. But this is not a two person race. It's not a three person race. Maybe on paper, but in reality, it's a one person race.

We'll be charitable. I will be, until we get through New Hampshire and South Carolina. But right now, it's fair to say Donald Trump is the presumptive nominee. As John Berman pointed out earlier, he blew everyone away. He set records in Iowa yesterday. No other candidate, Republican candidate has ever gotten over 50% of the vote.

Biggest margin of victory ever in the history of the Iowa caucuses, hit every single demographic group that he normally doesn't, Independents, women, college graduates, he won them all. So, Nikki Haley is saying what she needs to say to justify a couple more weeks in the race, but it's only going to be that a couple more weeks.

BOLDUAN: Mm, rough assessment, Pete. Rough assessment for sure. One thing, just to bring everyone in, one thing you and I were talking about as we're flying over here overnight is, your final notes and your biggest takeaways from last night. And not only seeing the caucuses play out, but in the messaging and the narrative, and the story that the candidates wanted to leave Iowa with, essentially forgetting Iowa and jumping straight into New Hampshire and beyond. What was your biggest final note for last night?

ZELENY: Look, we heard it in her speech last night, in Nikki Haley's speech last night that she said she's the only one who can sort of save Republicans from the Trump-Biden nightmare. And then we woke up this morning and saw that ad on television here this morning. So for the first time, it seems like she's really trying to play to win. She's trying to play to win over those Independent voters here in New Hampshire.

But as Pete was saying there, the math is so difficult for her going forward. But let's not get ahead of ourselves in the process. What some candidates want to do, obviously, is collect delegates. I've never seen a race, there's not been a race in modern history with so many uncertainties, criminal trials, et cetera. So she's trying to collect delegates as well, for that convention in Wisconsin, we'll see if that would ever even matter.

BOLDUAN: Exactly. There's so many if still. Lieutenant governor, Ron DeSantis, answer this question for me, Ron DeSantis is waking up this morning or has already woken up this morning thinking what?

DUNCAN: Well, I think he's wishing he was better at math at this point. I mean, it gets really tough. I will applaud him for coming in second place yesterday. You've spent a lot of money and time, and effort in Iowa. But now the math in front of him is really, really tough. I mean, we walk into New Hampshire, where his numbers are at best numbers, I think 5%, then you walk into South Carolina where he had finished a distant third or further. You know, this is a tough situation for Ron DeSantis, and I think it'll be tough for him to raise money and do the things he needs to do.

Look, this is what we all saw coming months ago when we said, hey, we got to have a consolidated effort. If we're going to beat Donald Trump, and the mess and chaos that surrounds him, we've got to come with one voice. And this is what happens. We forgot for a period of time that that was important. And now we've got a splintered fractured party like we've never seen before. And it's going to be tough to beat Donald Trump and certainly going to be tough to beat Joe Biden with Donald Trump.

BOLDUAN: I mean, put it in perspective, Pete, of what, you know, what really happened last night and what it means for today. The only way that Trump could have done better last night would have been what?

SEAT: To be unopposed. I don't think there's any way he could have done better. It cannot be understated how big of a boost it was for Donald Trump. I think it shows that retail campaigning isn't what it used to be. These races are nationalized. They're driven by what people see online and on TV. Donald Trump's made the fewest number of stops in Iowa, and Ron DeSantis did the full Grassley. He went to all 99 counties, so did the Vivek Ramaswamy.

In this Trump era, it's very, very different how they campaign. And it also says that Republicans aren't done with Donald Trump.

[09:20:02]

They weren't looking for Trump with less baggage. And every time he's indicted, every time people take shots at him, we become more stubborn mules and we cleaned even harder.

BOLDUAN: I'm really interested to see what that all looks like, though, as we focus on a very different electorate here in New Hampshire. Great to see you, Pete. Jeff and Geoff, thank you both.

Still ahead for us, Donald Trump, the winner of the Iowa caucuses, as we were just discussing, and John's going to talk more about in a New York courtroom, courthouse, where a jury will soon be picked to determine how much he will have to pay for comments he made denying that he sexually assaulted E. Jean Carroll. We will be back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:25:05]

BERMAN: Happening now, Donald Trump has arrived at a federal court in New York. This is a campaign stop for his trial to determine damages for defaming E. Jean Carroll. CNN's Kara Scannell outside the courthouse in New York with the latest. Kara, what are you seeing?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, so Donald Trump has arrived as has E. Jean Carroll. This will be the first time they've seen each other in years. They will be sitting down in the courtroom as the judge begins jury selection momentarily. It's kicks off in just a few moments from now. So also Donald Trump will have the opportunity to look at the jurors, as they're being asked questions and getting qualified for this process. Now this judge moves pretty quickly, so I think we'll have this jury seated by the end of this morning. And then we could have opening statements this afternoon. E. Jean Carroll's team will go first then Donald Trump.

And as we know that this trial is not about finding defamation. The judge has already ruled based on an earlier verdict, that Donald Trump defamed E. Jean Carroll. The question here for the jury will be damages, how much money Donald Trump may have to pay Carroll for harming her.

She is seeking more than $10 million in damages in part because of statements that Donald Trump made days after the verdict last year at a CNN town hall. She wants that to be some punitive damages that he should have to pay for continuing to repeat the statements that the jury found to be defamatory.

Now the big question here, Donald Trump, will he testify in this case. E. Jean Carroll is expected to take the stand. Donald Trump's attorneys say that he wants to testify. The judge has made rulings ahead of the trial saying that no witnesses can talk about the actual sexual assault or the defamation. Donald Trump is not permitted to say he didn't assault Carroll. He's not permitted to say he didn't know her and that he doesn't -- that he never attacked her.

But the judge -- so the question here is what will Donald Trump be able to testify when he takes the stand. His lawyers say that they want him to talk about his state of mind. That will be a decision the judge will make when the time comes. But we expect jury selection to begin shortly, and then opening statements this afternoon. John?

BERMAN: All right. As you said this could move very quickly. Kara, keep us posted.

With me now, CNN Chief legal affairs correspondent Paula Reid and Jeremy Saland, former Manhattan prosecutor.

Paula, we just heard that Donald Trump, he wants to testify. But if that happens it won't happen today. There are no cameras in the courtroom. What's he doing there?

REID: Well, he's trying to amplify this idea that he is a victim of political prosecutions -- persecutions, right, that they're only targeting him because they want to interfere with the election. That's why we saw him show up to oral arguments in federal court last week in Washington. And then he showed up to his civil case here in New York.

But what's different about today is it's unclear he's going to get a return on his investment of time because federal court, there are no cameras inside the hallways, there is no camera inside the court itself. There is no role for him today during jury selection, or if they get to opening statements. So this is very different than what we saw late last week where we heard from him four times in one day, right? He talked to cameras in the hallway on the way into court. He spoke in court. He spoke on his way out and then he had a press conference. Today, if he really wants to talk to his supporters or amplify his message, it is most likely that he's going to hold -- have to hold a private press event. Because again federal court totally different animals.

BERMAN: And we haven't got word yet that he is doing that. We'll have to wait and see. Jeremy, as Kara Scannell and Paula had both reported Donald Trump's legal team claims that he wants to testify here. The judge would put limitations on that. Explain potentially what he could say.

JEREMY SALAND, FORMER MANHATTAN PROSECUTOR: You know, what he could say is what I would expect him to say. He will take every avenue he can to say, well, he should not. Meaning, he'll use it as some sort of stomping ground for a win politically. He will try to say what he should not, again, which is I don't know this woman, this was a hoax. I didn't sexually assault her. I was not found responsible for raping her.

I would expect that because he's not going to want to speak about his money and what the potential damages could be. Will he try to speak to his state of mind? Will he try to sort of limit his financial exposure? Absolutely. But the script that Donald Trump has to keep and likes to keep is not what the court wants to contain from the four corners of the courtroom.

BERMAN: Yes. I mean, how long of a leash would a federal judge give him on the witness stand?

SALAND: Far less than Judge Engoron and the attorney general in New York civil case, there will be little to no leash. And I think that'll be shut down quickly. You know, his counsel has already said and his voice sort of that ground for appeal, which is you're already basically limiting my clients ability to defend himself out of the gate if you adhere to what the plaintiff's attorney wants, and you adhere to what you've already said to limit him.

But, you know, he's going to have to try to keep it to what his state of mind was, which may be reasonable and what his dollars are, which may be reasonable, because defamatory issue is over.

BERMAN: Paula, I saw you nodding at the no leash corollary right there.

REID: Yes. This is a different -- not only is this a different environment, this is a very different judge. And I think what we saw on the civil case.