Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

Now, Trump in New York Federal Court Before Heading to New Hampshire; GOP Candidates Turn to New Hampshire After Trump's Win in Iowa; Trump's Historic Win in Iowa Proof of His Powerful Hold on GOP. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired January 16, 2024 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:00:00]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour. Thank you so much for being with us. I'm Kate Baldwin joining you all this morning from New Hampshire. John Berman holding it down in New York, where Donald Trump is right now making a courtroom campaign stop before heading here to New Hampshire on the heels of his dominant win in Iowa.

Donald Trump is in court right now as the jury that will decide if he's going to pay as much as $10 million in damages to E. Jean Carroll is selected.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. Let that sink in. New York is Donald Trump's first campaign stop after winning the Iowa caucuses. As we speak, for the first time in decades, he is sitting in the same room as E. Jean Carroll, the woman who sued him and won for defamatory comments he made about her assault allegations.

CNN's Kara Scannell is outside the courthouse right now. Bring us up to speed, Kara.

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, John, both E. Jean Carroll and Donald Trump are in the same courtroom, and as you say, this is the first time they've seen each other in decades when this assault took place.

So, there are three tables in the courtroom. E. Jean Carroll is sitting at the first table surrounded by her lawyers. There's a second table behind her and then Donald Trump is at the table behind that. So, he's about a table apart from E. Jean Carroll. Now, so far, she has not turned around to look at him as he walked into the courtroom.

Right now, the judge is kind of laying out the rules of how this is going to play out. He said there will be nine jurors to hear this case and he also gave a warning to Carroll and Trump saying that they are directed not to say anything with an earshot of any juror, prospective juror or attempt to communicate by any means directly or indirectly unless they're a witness.

Now, Donald Trump speaks a lot about the E. Jean Carroll case. He says it while he's out campaigning. This seems to be a bit of a shot across the bow from the judge warning Trump and his lawyers, as well as E. Jean Carroll and hers, that they are not to make any statements that could influence the jury hearing this case.

This was something that came up the last trial where the judge had to speak to Trump's attorneys telling him that he could think of several statutes that Trump might be potentially tripping, suggesting, in fact, there could be some sort of jury intimidation. He didn't go that far but he sent a warning to Trump's attorneys. This seems to be him laying this out at the beginning saying he does not want any communications directly or indirectly with the jury.

Now, he also -- the lawyers were -- Trump's teams was re-upping some of the arguments they've been making about what the testimony could be about the witnesses that will be coming, and one of Trump's attorneys was making objections and continuing to make the argument. And this judge, Judge Lewis Kaplan, said when a ruling is made, that is the end of it, not the beginning of an argument.

Another difference from how the last trial in the civil fraud trial was taking place in New York State court just a block or so from here. Very different judge overseeing this case, he runs a very tight ship.

[10:05:01]

We're already seeing that as he's kind of setting the table for how this will get underway.

So, soon, they will begin to bring a pool of jurors in. The judge will ask the jurors if they feel they can be impartial. In this case, knowing sitting in the courtroom looking at Donald Trump and E. Jean Carroll, he said if anyone says they can't, he will dismiss them without further questions and they will continue to work through the process until they have nine jurors seated. And then from there, we will move on to opening statements in this case.

Now, this trial is expected to last only a few days. The wild card here is if Donald Trump is going to testify as his lawyer said he wants to, and if that will happen this week before he attends his mother in law's funeral or if we'll be back on Monday for that. John?

BERMAN: All right. Kara Scannell, outside this courthouse where there are already a number of developments, keep us posted throughout the morning.

With me now, CNN Chief Legal Affairs Correspondent Paula Reid. So, Paula, already a warning from this judge, and I like how Kara put it, this judge made clear that when I make a ruling, it's the end of the discussion, not the beginning.

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, exactly. One of my law professors used to say, I will not debate you on this. And that's basically what he's saying, like we're not going to have an ongoing debate about this. This is the decision, it's final. And it shows how this judge has a much stronger command of the courtroom, which is common in federal courts. You know, they tend to be very orderly, very disciplined, and that's what former President Trump is going to see this morning, because he did not participate in this case last year.

BERMAN: So he's there as a campaign stop. This is his first stop after winning the Iowa caucuses. If he wants to make a spectacle of himself somehow, yes, I understand he can do a press conference after, but what could he try to pull off inside the courtroom and what could the judge do?

REID: Well, the possibilities are endless, but there really is no role for him today. This is jury selection and then opening statements. There's no role for him to participate in any ways. You're going to stand up and cause a disturbance. That seems highly unlikely.

But his lawyers have said that he might want to testify. And that is where he could get into some trouble, because the judge has set out rules, right? We're not going to re-litigate what happened in that department store. He obviously can't attack E. Jean Carroll, he'd have to stick to the topic of damages.

And we saw just last week in a different civil trial, where he was allowed to speak during closing arguments that he didn't abide by any guidelines and went totally off the rails.

BERMAN: If he's allowed to speak about damages, what does that mean? I mean, how wide would those parameters be?

REID: He can talk about his frame of mind. He can speak --

BERMAN: Now or then?

REID: Then.

BERMAN: Okay.

REID: In 2019, or they're also going to consider another statement that he made actually subsequently at a CNN town hall in 2023.

So, it's very narrow. Any role that he would hear, but have, but if he wants to expand that lane, that could have consequences. And I think that's what the judge is getting at.

And I also want to note, it's not just about the campaign, right? We have him and E. Jean Carroll in the same room for the first time in decades, and that has an enormous impact on a survivor of sexual abuse. I've seen this so many times in the courtroom. That's emotional for her. So, anything that he says and does could have an impact on her.

He also got to get a jury sitting there, right? And they're going to be contemplating damages. So, he could be thinking about trying to amplify this message that I'm being persecuted, I can't talk, this judge is restricting me. But that has ramifications, emotional and potentially financial in terms of damages. So, it will be interesting to see how he plays this risk reward.

BERMAN: I'm so glad you brought that up because this is not a campaign stop for E. Jean Carroll. REID: Yes.

BERMAN: Right. She has accused him of sexually assaulting her and a jury agreed with her before.

REID: Yes, found liable for sex abuse.

BERMAN: And now she is sitting in the same room as this man that she says assaulted her all those years ago and that has to be very, very difficult.

The judge also issuing sort of guidelines for what the teams can say outside the courtroom as well. I wonder how that might restrict the possible news conference that may or may not happen in New York today.

REID: Well, I have a feeling, based on what we've seen over the past couple of years, it's unlikely to stop him from holding a press conference, but this was an issue last year during this trial. The judge was frustrated and expressed his frustration to Trump's lawyers, because, again, Trump did not participate in the last trial related to this case about statements that Trump was making about E. Jean Carroll and about the case.

Now, again, he can hold his press conference and get his larger message across if he feels they're trying to interfere with the election, they're coming after me, this is all political, I'm a victim, without going after E. Jean Carroll. But what we've seen again and again and again is he has not successfully been able to do that. Either he doesn't want to or he's just incapable.

We saw with the civil case, right? Last week that was a personal, because it's about his business, and he's just completely incapable of staying on message and staying disciplined and not violating, for example, a gag order. Here, no gag order, some outlines from the judge. It's unlikely he's going to stay in these contours, but we'll see.

BERMAN: Paula Reid, CNN Chief Legal Affairs Correspondent, great to have you here. Thank you very much.

Kate, back to you in New Hampshire.

BOLDUAN: New Hampshire, exactly. Thanks, John.

Yet again, the courtroom and the campaign colliding for Donald Trump. Here with me now is the one and only Dana Bash who's set to sit down with Nikki Haley and New Hampshire Governor Chris Sununu at noon today.

[10:10:05]

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: I feel like I just saw you on a plane overnight from Iowa. Was that you?

BOLDUAN: It was a fever dream, all of us.

BASH: Okay. That was you.

BOLDUAN: Exactly.

BASH: And you were there. And you were there.

BOLDUAN: Exactly right. That was the one snoring, snoring in foray (ph).

Let's talk about what John and Paula were talking about. Donald Trump, fresh off this huge one in Iowa, back in a court room. I mean, the split screen it presents today of how the courtroom and the campaign are the same, have become the same thing for him.

BASH: I was thinking that I feel like we can get rid of the term split screen because it's the screen.

BOLDUAN: That's true.

BASH: Right.

BOLDUAN: It's a great point.

BASH: It is the screen. It is the campaign. It is Donald Trump's 2024 candidacy. And since even before we really got into it, when other people joined the race, it was abundantly clear that a big part of the reason for him running was to fight his legal battles from a perch of not just a former president but a candidate for president. And we're seeing that play out.

And just in the context of what happened last night, we cannot underscore enough how much Republican voters in Iowa, in particular, and we'll probably see the same going forward, they don't care. In fact, this is a plus. It's not a plus that he's alleged to do these things, but the plus is that he turns it into them against us.

BOLDUAN: He's harnessed it.

BASH: Harnessed it. This is you. This is me right now, but tomorrow could be you, and I'm fighting for your rights, because my rights are your rights. And he twists it all or mushes it all together in a very successful way. Mush is an official political term and legal term.

BOLDUAN: I was going to say, look it up, official political term, which leads me to one of the data points coming out of the entrance polls that I am fascinated with because I don't know exactly what to take from it.

So, coming from caucus goers last night, 65 percent of caucus goers saying that Donald Trump is fit for the presidency if convicted, even if convicted of a crime. 31 percent said he would not be fit for the presidency if convicted of crime.

One, is that a problem? Is the 65 or the 31 where people should be focused more? And does that split look the same in New Hampshire? I don't know. BASH: It's such a good frame of a question, because the answer is both. I mean, both of those, the yes and the no, are very instructive for us about where the Republican electorate is, or at least where the electorate was, the caucus-goers in Iowa. Because, yes, you can look at, oh, my goodness, two-thirds of -- almost two-thirds of these people say, we don't care, it's fine. But on the flipside, if he becomes the nominee in a general election and you have 30 percent of these base voters say, I'm not going to vote for him. That's a problem for him.

BOLDUAN: Nikki Haley.

BASH: Yes.

BOLDUAN: You're going to be speaking to her very soon. She hits the ground running. This is where she's been putting time and a huge amount of resources. And she just came out with a new ad this morning that mirrored her final message last night where she was talking about the Trump-Biden nightmare, as she put it, which I think is fascinating. And then the headline also coming out that she's decided she is no longer interested in debating Ron DeSantis.

BASH: Yes.

BOLDUAN: Power play or risky?

BASH: Both. It is a bit risky when you are trying to make New Hampshire as she is the place where she can shine. She's got the endorsement, of course, from the governor. I'm going to speak to both of them together. She is doing well here. Her rise in the polls was most evident here in New Hampshire. She's appealing to the kind of voter that tends to go out for a Republican like her in these primaries. And yet New Hampshire takes pride in a lot of their traditions.

One of the traditions is the WMUR debate, the big, most important political station, if you will. People out there know what stations are anymore. And so, like I said, people in New Hampshire take pride in that. And she's effectively saying, I'm not going to do it. It's supposed to be this coming week. I'm not going to do it.

So, we'll see if it hurts her. She's gambling on the fact that doing the debate, having a replay of what we had in Iowa, which is what it would be with Ron DeSantis, is not worth it.

BOLDUAN: Would hurt or not help enough for it to be worth it.

BASH: Yes, exactly.

BOLDUAN: So fascinating, which also adds to my interest in seeing what is discussed at 12:00 P.M. today.

[10:15:00]

Thanks for coming early.

BASH: Good to see you.

BOLDUAN: It's great to see you.

Let us promote my dear friend, Dana Bash. Coming up at 12:00 Inside Politics, Dana is going to be speaking with presidential candidate Nikki Haley and New Hampshire governor Chris Sununu right here on CNN. John?

BERMAN: Oh, I will be watching.

All right, new this morning, Kate, the suspect in the Gilgo Beach serial killings has just, has been charged with a fourth murder and just pleaded, I believe, not guilty.

And the Senate takes its first steps to securing a temporary funding bill to avoid a government shutdown.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:20:00]

BERMAN: If you have been watching CNN, you are probably aware that Donald Trump won the Iowa caucuses and won them big. I think we have mentioned it a few times over the last few hours. The main question now, though, is what this big win in Iowa means going forward, particularly here in New Hampshire, the New Hampshire primary one week away.

So, I asked our friend, Jeff Zeleny, our senior political correspondent, which counties in Iowa are the most like New Hampshire. He told me, Linn County, which is where Cedar Rapids is. You can see Donald Trump just trounced Nikki Haley and Ron DeSantis there, an 18 point win, Haley narrowly edging out Ron DeSantis, so not performing that well here.

What makes this a New Hampshire-like county? Well, it's suburban, much like much of New Hampshire. Forgive me, New Hampshire residents, but it's basically one big suburb of Massachusetts. Your suburbs also are more educated voters.

Another county that looks a little bit like New Hampshire would be Story County, where Iowa State is. Again, Donald Trump beat Nikki Haley but only by four points here. You can see a lot more college educated voters here. But, again, Donald Trump with the edge. This was a county that Marco Rubio won in 2016 that Nikki Haley would really have to win.

I'm highlighting these counties because they have more independent voters, which are voters that Nikki Haley will need in New Hampshire if she hopes to have a chance there. But independent voters in Iowa went for Donald Trump, 42 percent of the vote, Nikki Haley 34 percent Ron DeSantis 18.

In New Hampshire, independents will be a huge, huge issue. Let me show you the voter registration here, undeclared voters, 343,000, Democrats, 268 -- Republicans, 268, Democrats, 262. These undeclared voters will hold major sway in the Republican primary. They can vote. The big question, and Jeff Zeleny posed this to me via text, are, are independent voters in Iowa similar to independent voters in New Hampshire? Probably not. They act a little bit differently.

How do they know? Well, we can look historically. As we said, Donald Trump's victory in Iowa, the biggest margin ever for Iowa caucuses, edging out this, George W. Bush got the highest percentage before, 41 points.

Now, the thing about Bush's victory in Iowa in 2000 is he went on to lose New Hampshire badly to John McCain by almost 20 points. Now, again, McCain didn't really compete in Iowa, but you can see the so- called independent voters in Iowa. They didn't make much of a difference in 2000. They had a huge difference in New Hampshire in 2000. So, those independent voters, they seem to behave very differently there in Iowa and here in New Hampshire. We'll have to see what happens this time around. Kate?

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. And you already started my next interview off as a hostile interview saying that New Hampshire is a suburb of Massachusetts. Like I don't know why you set me up like this.

BERMAN: A nice one. A nice, tax-free suburb of Massachusetts, but a suburb.

BOLDUAN: Moving on, John Berman.

With Iowa now in the rearview mirror, Donald Trump, Nikki Haley, Ron DeSantis will all be holding events in New Hampshire where we are today. Governor DeSantis is stopping first, though, this morning in Haley's home state of South Carolina.

Now, Nikki Haley has spent time and a whole lot of resources in New Hampshire and she is hoping that she can make some real headway against Trump in what we have seen his dominance in the polls here with the more moderate, independent thinking voters in this state.

Joining me now for a window into what folks are thinking, especially after last night in Iowa, Republican New Hampshire State Representative Bill Boyd. Bill -- and he's asked me to call him Bill. Bill, thank you so much for being here.

STATE REP. BILL BOYD (R-NH): Kate, thank you very much. I'm happy to be here. I appreciate it.

BOLDUAN: Thank you. What did you think of last night?

BOYD: Last night was very telling. It showed to me that conservatives in Iowa still resonate with President Trump's populist message, evident by the fact that he took 51 percent of the vote. He was one vote shy of absorbing all 99 counties in the state of Iowa, which is just amazing.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

BOYD: I think it's a testament to the ground game that he and his advisers and his team had in place in Iowa. So, what that does is that the way that I'm looking at it right now, had there been any changes of the margin if President Trump was less than 50 percent if Ambassador Haley had finished second, then I would have been looking more towards Super Tuesday being the firewall, I think I think New Hampshire is the firewall right now. I think I think anything less than a win for Ambassador Haley next Tuesday bodes very well for President Trump in his prospects.

BOLDUAN: It really raises the stakes now.

BOYD: I think next is going to be vital for every undecided voter, every independent voter that wants to participate in the first in the nation primary.

[10:25:08]

They're going to be coming out next Tuesday.

BOLDUAN: You have not thrown your support behind a candidate. What are you wrestling with? Why not?

BOYD: The thing that I continue to wrestle with is two things. Number one is skill set. Do they have the executive functioning to walk into the Oval Office on day one and be able to hit the ground running? That's paramount. Number two, are they going to be able to calm some of the noise that exists in our country? Are they going to be able to quell some of the things that we see on social media in certain parts of the unrest that we're experiencing? I'm looking at that. But also, lastly, our stature in the world has taken a hit. And I think somebody is going to need to walk in on day one and build up the idea that we are a city on the hill, that the United States is city on the hill. And we're a city on the hill to the entire world.

BOLDUAN: Do you think -- given what you've seen and what you're hearing, do you think Ron DeSantis has a chance here?

BOYD: Truthfully, no. And I think Governor DeSantis -- unlike President Trump, Governor DeSantis has expected a lot of time, a lot of equity, a lot of money. He has a -- people that I know that are working on that campaign have just been down and out, head down, pedal to the metal, trying to outreach to every single voter here in New Hampshire to galvanize the DeSantis message. And, unfortunately, it's not playing here in New Hampshire.

I mean, there's -- I think part of the reason why is that New Hampshire is a purple state. And what Governor DeSantis' record in Florida, while completely laudable like what he's done in Florida, might not be something that plays well here in the state of New Hampshire. And I would say that it's probably systemic as to why his campaign hasn't caught fire up here in New Hampshire.

BOLDUAN: I think what I'm hearing from you is probably -- you've got the finger on the pulse of your constituents and a lot of folks here, which is these candidates have a lot of work to do. Nothing in New Hampshire is a surefire.

When, and these candidates, all of them, still have a lot of work to do, which is what we're going to see in the next week.

BOYD: I mean, what I would say is Ambassador Haley has had numerous down all same with Governor DeSantis, Governor Christie. When Senator Scott was in the race, you know Governor Burgum making routes today. Even Governor Hutchinson is still making the rounds at this day and age.

And, you know, tactically, President Trump has used the big stage, the arenas, the opera houses that exist here in New Hampshire He's used that particular form as a way where unlike the other candidates where they've been answering cross questions and you know the town hall former tends to be very organic. I would argue that President Trump really has wanted to hone his message, wanted to stay focused on making sure that his base, knows that that message continues to ring true and hope it brings along some independents and maybe some other disaffected voters in the process.

BOLDUAN: We will soon see. We'll see what happens in the next, just a few days down.

It's good to see you and great to meet you. Thank you so much for your time.

BOYD: Kate, thank you so much. I appreciate you.

BOLDUAN: Thank you.

And a reminder, do not miss the CNN Town Hall with Governor Ron DeSantis tonight at 9:00 P.M. Eastern all live from here in New Hampshire. My colleague, Wolf Blitzer, moderating, but is clearly a very important conversation at this stage only on CNN. John?

BERMAN: It is all happening, Kate.

Moments ago, the suspect in the Gilgo Beach serial killings pleaded not guilty to a fourth murder charge. The new developments just in.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:30:00]