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Jury Selected In Second Trump-Carroll Defamation Trial; GOP Candidates Turn To NH After Trump's Landslide In Iowa; WH: Texas Made It "Impossible" To Potentially Help Drowned Migrants; Sen. Manchin Talks Third-Party Ticket After Trump's Iowa Win. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired January 16, 2024 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[15:00:45]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: The jury has been selected and now the trial is set to begin in minutes in the E. Jean Carroll defamation case. Yes, another one. Jurors are weighing how much former president, Trump, has to pay for defaming Carroll yet again. We're following the latest from court.

Plus, tragedy on the Rio Grande, three migrants drowning in the river as Texas and the White House lock horns in a fight over control of the border.

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN HOST: And prosecutors unveil new DNA evidence in the case against the suspect in the Gilgo Beach killings as Rex Heuermann appears in court to face a fourth murder charge. The next court appearance is just weeks away.

We're following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

KEILAR: Any moment, court is going to resume in the civil trial to decide how much, if any, in damages former president, Trump, must pay E. Jean Carroll for comments that he made in 2019 denying her sexual assault allegations.

MARQUARDT: Now, the former president is attending the trial in Manhattan and it's the first time in decades that Trump and his accuser, Carroll, are in the same room.

CNN Chief Legal Affairs Correspondent, Paula Reid, joins us now.

So, Paula, the jury selection, which started today, wrapped up just before the court went to break. What are we expecting? What comes next?

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: So, I'm reading live updates from our colleagues in the courtroom, and it appears that former president, Trump, is leaving the court complex right now. But his lawyers, his legal team, is back in court for these opening statements, and these are expected to wrap before the end of the day. Now, earlier in the day, the business at hand was whittling down dozens of possible jurors to a nine-person jury. Now, this jury is going to remain anonymous. That's significant because, of course, we've seen with judges, court staff, other grand jurors who have worked on cases related to Trump, they have faced threats, so it is notable that they will remain anonymous in this case.

But I want to emphasize, Trump did not have to show up to jury selection. He is not required to attend. He really doesn't have a role at this stage of the case. This is a choice. We have seen him make this choice multiple times over the past 10 days. He has attended oral arguments in federal court.

Last week, he also attended a civil case here in New York and now he's back in federal court for this damages trial, all voluntary. He is not required to attend any of those, but it appears that he believes there is some return on investment. The opportunity to amplify this narrative that he is the victim of an unfair judicial system.

We saw a little bit of that on display earlier today. His lawyer, Alina Habba, who is also his spokeswoman, sparred with the judge over their request to try to not have court on Thursday, so he could attend his mother-in-law's funeral. Now, the judge had already denied a similar request to push the whole trial back.

Now, the fact that Habba brought this up again was significant, but it felt like she was making the argument really in the larger court of public opinion, because she knew this was likely going to be denied, and it feeds into that narrative that somehow he's not getting a fair shake. But, of course, the judge has pointed out he doesn't need to be here. There's no role for him and it's up to him whether he wants to attend court or the funeral.

MARQUARDT: All right. Paula Reid, thanks very much.

We do understand that President Trump, the former president, just left the courthouse. We did not see him. But with us now to discuss all of this is former federal prosecutor Elliot Williams.

So, Elliot, what do you make of the fact that the former president took time out of his campaigning to be there today when he didn't have to be? Is there any kind of grand legal strategy there? Do you think it was grandstanding and part of the political campaign?

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It's certainly not a legal strategy. Now, to be clear, when someone is a defendant, in a criminal trial, which this is not, they have to be present in court. When you're sued in a civil suit, you don't need to go to court and his attorneys could have made all of the arguments and presented their case without him. So the question is, why is he doing it?

[15:05:00]

Now, we all know from having watched a number of these proceedings that there's a certain amount of media coverage and excitement in the public, and he could whip up supporters and so on in the middle of the campaign season and that's probably what's going on here.

KEILAR: Let's be clear about what's at issue and what's not.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

KEILAR: It's a little bit similar to the fraud case because he's defamed her.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

KEILAR: That's - he is liable for sexually abusing her, right?

WILLIAMS: Yes.

KEILAR: Decided. So this is about damages.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

KEILAR: And it's also about 2000 - it was 2019 - sorry, it was - this is about 2019. It was about 2022 before.

WILLIAMS: Yes, there's two different bucket and we're seeing this on the screen right here right now. There's two different buckets of defamatory statements. He denies the sexual assault and also makes disparaging comments about E. Jean Carroll.

Now, he has been found by a jury to have, number one, committed the sexual assault and number two, to have issued the defamatory statement. So now it's a question of the damages and how much sort of the severity of the impact on the victim, based on the nature of the statements that were made.

Defamation is making a statement that you know to be true - untrue about somebody else that hurts them or their reputation.

MARQUARDT: And, Elliot, there was a request from E. Jean Carroll's legal team that there be preconditions set on the behavior of the former president. Of course, we'd recently seen him going off on this monologue. This was just last week during closing arguments of his civil fraud trial. Are you surprised that the judge didn't say what President Trump could and could not do?

WILLIAMS: I'm not surprised because of how reluctant judges can be to start telling parties in the legal proceedings what they can and can't do and what they can and can't say. To be frank, regardless of what anybody thinks of Donald Trump, any participant in the legal system is entitled to, number one, free speech to speak their mind, but also to zealously advocate on their own behalf as a defendant.

And when judges start tinkering with that, that frankly is where judges start getting in trouble. That's where you start getting cases overturned or reversed on appeal because they have been seen as stepping in the defendant's way. So I'm not surprised that the judge didn't, even though, look, there's a public interest in making sure that this very blustery defendant doesn't pop off again and start insulting people in the public. KEILAR: How does a jury look at how you put a monetary value on damages?

WILLIAMS: Yes.

KEILAR: Because if someone's the president and they say something defamatory about you, the megaphone is huge.

WILLIAMS: And if someone is the president is a big deal and that's a big part of it: who's the speaker, who's the victim or the recipient and what is the harm. So, for instance, you are a public figure, Brianna. You could say you don't like my necktie right here and yet it might hurt my feelings a little bit. Now ...

KEILAR: It's great, though.

WILLIAMS: ... it's a great tie.

KEILAR: Okay, go on.

WILLIAMS: However ...

KEILAR: For the purpose of this practice.

WILLIAMS: ... if I were the owner of a necktie company and made my entire livelihood on the strength of my neckties, of course, that could hurt my reputation. If you are a public figure or a columnist and a politician speaks ill of you, that can harm your reputation, your ability to put things out there and E. Jean Carroll will be making the case to the jury that, look, I - my brand, my name, image and likeness is now worth less on account of what this defendant has said to me.

Now, look, it's all subjective, even the silly necktie argument. It's sort of how do you put a value on that? But that's what juries and lawyers have to do in these declamation cases.

KEILAR: It's a great tie, isn't it?

MARQUARDT: It really is.

KEILAR: Just wonderful.

MARQUARDT: I mean, you always wear the best dress around here.

WILLIAMS: I've had it for a long time. It's an old tie.

KEILAR: Elliot ...

MARQUARDT: (Inaudible) ...

KEILAR: ... thank you.

WILLIAMS: Thank you.

KEILAR: So Donald Trump may be in New York, but his supporters are already braving the snow in New Hampshire. They're lining up ahead of his event this evening, a campaign event there and his two remaining rivals, they're also flocking to The Granite State.

And despite Trump's landslide Iowa victory, Nikki Haley really sounding as confident as ever. She says this is now a two person race.

MARQUARDT: And that means that she's looking past the other candidate who topped her in Iowa. Second place finisher, Ron DeSantis, governor of Florida. Earlier today, Gov. DeSantis was actually in South Carolina. He didn't go straight to New Hampshire and said in South Carolina he was sharpening his attacks on Haley in her home state.

We have full coverage out on the campaign trail. Let's start with Kristen Holmes in Atkinson, New Hampshire. That's where President Trump, the former president, is expected later today.

So, Kristen, what is the thinking behind the former president's detour to New York for this case that we were just discussing?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Alex and Brianna, this is really a campaign tactic. It's also something that Donald Trump is interested in. He has enjoyed going to his legal cases. He also enjoys painting himself as a victim and saying that this is all political persecution and election interference.

And we should note that they believe that this messaging is working for him. Last week, he was in and out of courtrooms again voluntarily in between events. This is just right ahead of the Iowa caucuses. And then he won the Iowa caucuses in a landslide. He has not participated in any debates, yet he still won the Iowa caucuses in a landslide.

[15:10:01]

They believe the strategy, unconventional, is working for Donald Trump and is going to continue to work.

Now, as you noted now in New Hampshire, we are looking at a very different race. When you talk about the two-man race with Nikki Haley, in some ways, Donald Trump's team feels that way, particularly about this state.

I'm not talking about overall. They do believe they'll have challenges from Ron DeSantis in future early voting states. However, in New Hampshire, it does seem to them a two-man race, particularly when you take into account that the campaign plus the Super PAC has already spent millions of dollars attacking Nikki Haley on television throughout, advertisements hitting her for immigration policy, as well as the Social Security and Medicare.

They are trying to siphon away voters from her. The way that they're looking at it, and this is according to a senior advisor I just spoke to, they believe that Nikki Haley's voters in New Hampshire are going to be independents that lean more moderate or left-leaning. They believe Donald Trump has a cinch on the right-leaning independents as well as the conservative bloc. What they are trying to do now is to chip away at those moderate voters. They are very aware that there are people who are going to come out and vote for Nikki Haley just to cast a vote against Donald Trump. But the goal is to make that number smaller than the Republicans that come out to support Donald Trump.

KEILAR: And Omar, you're there in Manchester. Two candidates now left Vine (ph) to be the Trump alternative. What's their outlook here?

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Well, starting with Nikki Haley, her outlook, as Kristen mentioned, is that this is a two-person race. And we were with her a few hours ago at this point. And one of the things she said was that they were looking to just have a strong finish in Iowa. Obviously, she finished third. I'm sure they would like to finish a little bit higher than that.

But clearly, they felt their finish in Iowa was enough to give them the momentum that, at least, they want heading into this state here in New Hampshire. Obviously, yes, a different voting pool. But also a critical standing here.

When you look at polls coming in to this, the CNN poll in particular showed Nikki Haley within single digits of former President Trump. That's a threshold that no other candidate has been at, at least in the recent few months, for this presidential primary.

Take a listen to how Haley is framing, again, this next phase of the campaign.

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NIKKI HALEY, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: But he's in single digits in South Carolina and single digits in New Hampshire. He's been invisible in both states. He is not my concern. I'm going after Trump. That's what I'm saying. And I'm doing that not for personal reasons, but the fact that I don't want my kids to live like this. At some point, something's got to give.

People are tired of the division and the chaos. We can't go through four more years of chaos. We won't survive it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JIMENEZ: And that first part, she was talking about Ron DeSantis. But on the latter portion, she's made - she's painted a red line here, essentially saying that she won't debate anymore unless former president, Trump, is on the stage or if she is the eventual nominee and is faced to debate Joe Biden.

And so clearly she feels that she needs to put herself above the fray here. But the question is, will that perception actually meet up with reality? Despite her polling within single digits of the former president, nothing has ever showed her polling ahead. And that's the opportunity over this next week to see if they can find enough support, even in people who used to back people like Chris Christie, who were initially in this race that could potentially put her over the edge. We will see.

KEILAR: It's going to be a long week and a short week. So much - not enough time, I think these candidates would say ...

MARQUARDT: (Inaudible) ...

KEILAR: ... to get something done here.

Kristen Holmes, Omar, stay warm, both of you.

In the meantime, the drownings of a woman and two children at the southern border magnifying this rift over who has jurisdiction in the Rio Grande area. Ahead, what federal officials are saying about the tragedy.

MARQUARDT: And later, more than 2,000 flights have been canceled today as an Arctic blast hits the U.S. with snow and record low temperatures. Those stories and much more are coming up on CNN NEWS CENTRAL, stay with us.

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MARQUARDT: The Biden administration says that Texas made it impossible for federal agents to potentially help three migrants who drowned. That's according to a new Supreme Court filing. On Friday, a woman and two children died in the Rio Grande River. That's near Eagle Pass, Texas, while trying to cross into the United States from Mexico.

KEILAR: Just days earlier, state authorities blocked U.S. Border Patrol from accessing miles of the U.S.-Mexico border in that area. We are covering the story from both the White House and the southern border.

First, let's go to CNN's MJ Lee.

MJ, what is the Biden administration saying in this new filing?

MJ LEE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. We are seeing this protracted dispute and clash between the federal government and the state of Texas over the U.S. southern border. And the dispute that is before the Supreme Court is really over the question of whether Border Patrol agents have the authority and the power to cut razor wiring that was put in place previously by the state of Texas.

The federal government basically says that these agents do have the authority to do that and that it is actually necessary for them to do their jobs, including sometimes apprehending some of these migrants or offering them aid as necessary, while the state of Texas argues that these agents do not have the authority to do that, that this is wiring that the state put in place for a reason. And the latest development here now is that the Biden administration is saying to the Supreme Court that had Border Patrol agents had access to areas of the border that they previously had access to, they may have been able to help these three migrants that ended up drowning last week in the Rio Grande.

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This is what the solicitor general said in a new filing to the Supreme Court. She writes: "It is impossible to say what might have happened if Border Patrol had had its former access to the area - including through its surveillance trucks that assisted in monitoring the area." She writes: "At the very least, however, Border Patrol would have had the opportunity to take any available steps to fulfill its responsibilities and assist its counterparts in the Mexican government with undertaking the rescue mission. Texas," she says, "made that impossible."

Now, it goes without saying, all of this is serving as sort of the backdrop of what we are seeing here in Washington, D.C., as Democrats and Republicans are still stuck as they try to reach some sort of deal on this national security supplemental. They are stuck, of course, over the issue of the border. And that is why President Biden, the White House has invited congressional leaders to come to the White House tomorrow so that they could try to hash some things out. We'll see what kind of progress can get made tomorrow.

MARQUARDT: And Rosa Flores, you're outside the park that was taken over by Texas authorities. What are you seeing there?

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Alex, let me show you around because this is the epicenter of this border battle. This is Shelby Park. Until last week, this fence was not here. This military vehicle was not here and you can see members of the Texas National Guard. These members guard and determine who enters and who exits this park.

Now, this is presumably the area where Border Patrol was denied access. Now, I want to show you beyond this fence because you'll see that there's even more fencing that is staged, unclear where that's going to go. And beyond that, there's equipment and beyond that is the Rio Grande.

Now, this is the overall area where authorities say that those three migrants drowned and that they're the - an additional two migrants were in distress on Friday. That's the reason why all of this has erupted.

But I want to show you the scale of this takeover by the state of Texas because this is Shelby Park, but it goes on for a while downriver. So you can see that there's an international bridge that crosses into Mexico. Well, this part keeps on going. There's two bridges. There's a golf course. And if you keep on going several miles, that's the extent of this takeover.

Now, according to a law enforcement source, the number of migrant apprehensions has gone up in the past few days. On Sunday, it was about a thousand. And if you look around here, you don't see any migrants. There's National Guard members, you don't see migrants. So where are these migrants coming through?

Well, that's the thing about border barriers. They don't stop migration. They only redirect migration. So according to a law enforcement source, migrants are actually being pushed through by smugglers further up river west of town in a residential area and beyond that, that's where Border Patrol is now actually apprehending migrants because, again, they don't have access to this area.

I talked to an Eagle Pass resident who voted for Gov. Abbott. He supports many of Gov. Abbott's policies, but he says that he's against this takeover. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE GARCIA, EAGLE PASS, TEXAS RESIDENT: It certainly isn't the best thing to be non-transparent. It's not the best thing to irritate the people that are here. They're your constituents. We are his constituents. And like I said, a bunch of us here voting for him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FLORES: Now, Alex, the state of Texas is under deadline to remove these gates, to give access to Border Patrol to this area.

According to DHS, they sent a cease and desist letter to the Texas Attorney General's office, giving them until Wednesday. So until tomorrow for all of this to be removed, for Border Patrol to gain access, we'll be here, we'll let you know. Alex?

KEILAR: All right. Well, we'll see how that goes.

Rosa, thank you for that report. We really appreciate it.

Sen. Joe Manchin speaking for the first time since former President Donald Trump's landslide victory in Iowa. Hear what he told CNN about a potential third party bid and his thoughts on playing spoiler in 2024.

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KEILAR: He says he's not campaigning, but Sen. Joe Manchin has sure been acting like he is. He's had some trips to key states. He just spoke with CNN as well about Donald Trump's historic win last night in Iowa.

MARQUARDT: CNN Chief Congressional Correspondent, Manu Raju, is on Capitol Hill.

So, Manu, you just spoke with Senator Manchin. What did he say?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Oh, he told me that it would be "extremely tough," in his words, to run as a third party candidate and win. But he also told me that in talking to voters, it's very clear that they are looking for an alternative to Biden and Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SEN. JOE MANCHIN (D-WV): I think it's too early to be told, but once you know you have the main Democrat candidate and the main Republican candidate after Super Tuesday, it's pretty well sorted out. Then they'll start looking at all different alternatives if there is.

RAJU: So your line, if you were to run or someone like you, the lane would be the moderate Republican voters who disaffected with Trump. Wouldn't that essentially elect Donald Trump then?

MANCHIN: No, you would have - I mean, there's a - I come from a long line of very conservative, moderate Democrats and where have they gone? Now, they've all gone independent or they're still there that are identified as Democrats, they just don't vote a strong - extreme Democratic position.

[15:30:01]

I just - it's surely to say, Manu ...

RAJU: But you'd be peeling away Biden's support.

MANCHIN: I will never be - the only thing I've told you, I would never be a supporter.