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Haley Says 2024 is Two-Person Race After Coming in 3rd in Iowa; GOP Candidates Turn to New Hampshire After Trump's Landslide in Iowa; At Least 10,600 Children Killed in Gaza Since October 7 Attacks on Israel; Gilgo Beach Murder Suspect Charged in 4th Killing. Aired 3:30- 4p ET

Aired January 16, 2024 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

SEN. JOE MANCHIN (D-WV): I'd just -- I'd surely just say --

(CROSSTALK)

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: But you'd be you'd be peeling away Biden's support.

MANCHIN: I think I've told you I would never be a spoiler. If I saw that spoiling to one side or the other, I mean, I'm very much concerned. I just said, and I've been very clear, I love my country too much to ever support a vote for Donald Trump. That's all I can say. I'm not -- that's not personal. It's just what I've seen, what I've observed and what would happen to our country.

And on the other hand, I would like to see the Democratic Party and our president move more to the center. I think it's going to be very challenging staying in the left in that left lane.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

RAJU (on camera): So, you're hearing him suggesting that he does not want to run if there's no chance of winning and there's still just there's just not much time left in the calendar.

It is, of course, January. We're looking at a November election. Manchin told me that he doesn't have to worry about a primary for an independent candidate.

So that's why he may have time until Super Tuesday in March to make a decision about whether to run or not. But making very clear that he does not want to upset the balance and affect Joe Biden's chances, elect Donald Trump, but would only run if he'd win, though that would be very difficult, as he acknowledged -- guys.

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN HOST: And Republicans very eager to take over his seat in the Senate. Manu Raju on Capitol Hill. Thanks very much.

Now, with the New Hampshire primary just a week away, Nikki Haley is not the only one saying that the contest there is a two-person race between her and Donald Trump. New Hampshire's Governor Chris Sununu, he also agrees, adding that Ron DeSantis has given up on the Granite State. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU (R-NH): But he knows he's in single digits. It's embarrassing. He's pulled all his money. He's pulled all his people. He hasn't been here in a month. So, he's given up on New Hampshire. He made that very clear, which is why, again, it's a two-person race between Nikki and Trump.

So, he doesn't want to be completely embarrassed, I suppose. And so, he's going to come up and do a town hall here and there. But at the end of the day, he doesn't have the ground game. He doesn't have the connection.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUARDT: Joining me now is New Hampshire State Representative Ross Berry. He is also the state director of Never Back Down, the super PAC backing Ron DeSantis. Ross, thank you so much for joining us today. Your Governor Chris Sununu, fellow Republican, he said that Ron DeSantis has given up on New Hampshire. What do you say to that?

ROSS BERRY (R), NH STATE DIRECTOR, PRO-DESANTIS "NEVER BACK DOWN" SUPER PAC: Well, Governor Sununu is known for saying a lot of things. I mean, right there he told a lie. He said Governor DeSantis hadn't been in New Hampshire in a month and he was just here on December 30th. So, either my governor can't count or he's just not telling the truth.

The reality is, is the governor and the team never back down here. We have the best ground game in the state. And I'm confident that we're going to overperform the polls just like we did last night in Iowa.

MARQUARDT: You say you have the best ground game in the state. The last polling that I saw had the former President Trump at 39 percent, Haley at 32 percent and Governor DeSantis way down at just 5 percent.

Now, we know, we understand that you're not part of the campaign itself. You are with the Super PAC. So, what have you heard from donors in the past 24 hours since Iowans went to the caucuses yesterday?

BERRY: Well, I don't talk to donors. I talk to voters. But let's talk about that poll you just mentioned. I know it's a CNN poll, but that poll in 2012 was off by 12 percent in the New Hampshire Republican state primary. It actually predicted the wrong winner by nine points. So, you know, they can you can put up all the polls you want.

They said that Ron Sanchez was going to get third in Iowa and he got second. He outperformed there by 8 percent. So, you guys keep putting up polls. They keep being wrong. And, you know, there's going to be a lot of pollsters looking for a lot of work after this because they just keep getting it wrong.

MARQUARDT: But, Ross, I mean, we're not talking about the margin of error here. We're talking about a good 30 points that he's behind, single digits, well behind the two front runners.

BERRY: He was outside of the margin of error in Iowa. It was wrong there. I'm just telling you. I've been in the state for 12 years. These polls are wrong.

MARQUARDT: Ross, I've covered the New Hampshire primary before. One thing you can certainly say about both Iowans and people from New Hampshire voters in New Hampshire is that they want to see the candidates in front of them. They want to be treated with a certain measure of respect that befits their place in the primary schedule. And yet after Iowa, we didn't see the governor go straight to New Hampshire like Nikki Haley did. He went to South Carolina.

He was there earlier today for an event. South Carolina's primary isn't even until next month. So, what does that say about how he's feeling about New Hampshire? And what does it say to New Hampshire's voters?

BERRY: Well, he's in New Hampshire right now. In fact, he's going to be hosting a town hall here in Claremont in less than an hour. And I believe he's going on CNN tonight in New Hampshire. So, he's here. He's in the state. He's going to be campaigning here for the foreseeable future that I'm aware of. And, you know, you guys can push whatever you want. And he went down there at a 400-person rally and in Nikki Haley's backyard. And then he came right here to New Hampshire.

So, you know, he's here. He's answering the questions. And you want to talk about snubbing the voters. Let's talk about Nikki Haley not doing the WMUR debate, snubbing the debate on Thursday.

[15:35:00]

I don't know if she's going to do the debate on CNN either. So, you know, she's going to she's going to put her foot in her mouth enough to have us surge ahead.

MARQUARDT: So, speaking of that debate, Governor Haley saying that she didn't want to debate unless Donald Trump shows up. Do you think that that DeSantis should join Haley in pressuring Trump to debate, to take a unified stand together so the voters can see the top three candidates alongside each other?

BERRY: Look, Donald Trump's going to do what Donald Trump's going to do. Ron DeSantis puts himself out there and Nikki Haley doesn't want to be on the debate stage with Ron DeSantis because we saw how it ended last time. You know that debate by Nikki Haley was an absolute embarrassment. She kept dropping some weird website every two and a half minutes. She said it like 16 times.

The reality is this has nothing to do with Donald Trump being on the stage or being off the stage. This has everything to do with the fact that when Nikki Haley got on the stage with Ron DeSantis, she was absolutely embarrassed by her performance.

MARQUARDT: Ross, we only have a couple of moments left, but you mentioned our town hall tonight with our colleague Wolf Blitzer. What do you think DeSantis needs to say to New Hampshire voters? What do you want to hear him say?

BERRY: Personally, I want to hear him talk about what he did in Florida and the COVID lockdowns and ending those. I'm a dad, brand new dad. I want to hear about parental rights and I want to hear about economic policy. You know, this is a very fiscally conservative state. And I think Governor DeSantis' record down in Florida would match up very well with the electorate here in New Hampshire.

MARQUARDT: Well, congratulations on your new child. Ross Berry, thanks so much for joining us today.

BERRY: Thank you.

MARQUARDT: Now, another bleak milestone that underscores the horror of what has unfolded in Gaza, more than 10,000 children killed. That's according to the Hamas-run health ministry. And new evidence is suggesting that Israel's offensive has not yet entered its less lethal, lower intensity stage. That's ahead. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:41:26]

MARQUARDT: The humanitarian crisis in Gaza is only getting worse by the day. The Hamas controlled health ministry there says that more than 10,000 children have now been killed since the attacks on Israel and the war that sparked it on October 7th.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: The health ministry also says at least 158 people have been killed in Israeli attacks on Gaza here in just the last 24 hours.

We should note that CNN cannot independently verify these numbers. They are broadly relied on by many international organizations. We have CNN's Nada Bashir, who is joining us now from Beirut. Nada, these numbers, I mean, they are heartbreaking. Honestly, hard to comprehend. Tell us what we're learning.

NADA BASHIR, CNN REPORTER: Absolutely, Brianna. And it's staggering, concerning figures and statistics that we are hearing, particularly when you consider that these are figures we're hearing in just over 100 days since the war began.

The health ministry also noting that over 24,000 people are said to have been killed, thousands more injured. And of course, there are still believed to be many people that have not been identified because they are still buried beneath the rubble of buildings that are now destroyed following Israeli airstrikes. And of course, as you mentioned, CNN does not have independent access to Gaza. We cannot independently verify these figures.

And the Israeli military and government have said that they are targeting Hamas, not targeting civilians. But of course, it is difficult to reconcile that expressed intention with the sheer death toll that we are seeing that is mounting day by day with the unfolding humanitarian disaster and the sheer scale of the destruction that we are seeing across the Gaza Strip.

And of course, we have been hearing those alarm bells being sounded by numerous aid agencies, by numerous U.N. agencies over that unfolding humanitarian disaster, which is being characterized as a catastrophe now, in the Gaza Strip. We are hearing warnings of Gaza being on the brink of famine.

Of course, as we begin to see Israel shifting its focus from northern Gaza into southern Gaza, those alarm bells are being sounded more and more. Because, of course, the vast majority of Gaza's 2.3 million population are now internally displaced, the vast majority concentrated in that southern region where they were told to evacuate to by the Israeli military.

And of course, that southern region is a key gateway for aid. And we've been hearing calls from aid agencies calling for the unimpeded access by aid agencies, by more trucks to get in to deliver vital aid. And as we know, the vast majority of Gaza's hospitals now are completely in-operational.

We are hearing concerning stories from medical officials on the ground of medical procedures, amputations being carried out without anesthetic. The humanitarian situation seems to be only growing more dire by the day.

KEILAR: Nada, thank you for that report, Nada Bashir. And we'll be right back.

[15:45:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MARQUARDT: A Long Island man accused of killing three women in what's known as the Gilgo Beach murders is now charged with killing a fourth.

Rex Heuermann pleaded not guilty today to the murder of Maureen Brainard-Barnes. Her remains were discovered on Long Island in 2010. She had disappeared three years prior to that.

KEILAR: Heuermann was already awaiting trial for three murders that occurred more than a decade ago. Today's indictment revealed that new DNA profiling of hair found on a belt buckle linked him to the fourth victim.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL BROWN, REX HEUERMANN'S ATTORNEY: The day for the first time is we hear about nuclear DNA. We're going to look into that. We are certainly going to look into the lab reports, the lab testing, and the transfer of evidence. Because that's somewhat disturbing to learn for the first time after 13 years that we now have nuclear DNA testing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Candice DeLong is a former FBI profiler and host of the Killer Psyche podcast. Candice, thank you so much for being with us. Can you talk to us a little bit about the significance of this new DNA evidence, even as Rex Heuermann's lawyer is kind of trying to malign it there?

[15:50:00]

CANDICE DELONG, FORMER FBI PROFILER: Well, he's going to have quite an uphill climb to get that discounted. It is DNA technology, especially as it's being used in solving crimes, is moving very rapidly, and improving all the time.

Basically, what this means is, he did it. What would his DNA be doing on her belt buckle and then her remains are found?

MARQUARDT: And today we learned about new digital evidence in this case, indicating the suspect did extensive online searches on their victims and their family members.

According to the statement, he searched the status of the investigations into those murders. He also conducted Google searches on serial killers and serial killer investigations. Would that just be considered circumstantial evidence or could that help prosecutors make their case against the suspect?

DELONG: It depends on exactly what the content is. But the answer to, is it circumstantial evidence? Yes.

However, it's not something that would put an individual on death row. Lots of people research serial killers because they're curious. But in his case, now he's been linked to four murdered women. So, it's a problem. And that's not unusual for whether it's a serial killer or anyone that has committed a murder and has not been caught to follow the news about it.

There have been arrests of infamous killers and newspapers were found underneath their pillow about the crime that they had committed. They're curious.

KEILAR: And listen, if there's enough circumstantial evidence, it's hard to dismiss, right? He had some software according to the indictment that he was using to try to scrub the data trail.

Both his wife and daughter were out of town when this murder occurred. We'd known before that his wife was out of town when other murders had occurred. That was actually a big tip off for police. How convincing is that to, you know, a jury, do you think?

DELONG: Well, for me as an investigator, it's interesting. I know that when they searched his home, it took two weeks, which tells me they were looking in walls. They were looking up fireplaces because there's a possibility his wife was gone when he did this. He brought his victims to his home quite possibly.

If there is a mountain of circumstantial evidence, many people have been convicted on only that, but it has to be a lot. KEILAR: Yes, plus with the DNA, as you said, it's going to be an

uphill battle here. Candice DeLong, great to have you. Thank you so much for being with us this afternoon.

DELONG: Thank you for having me.

KEILAR: And we'll be right back.

[15:55:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MARQUARDT: With the New Hampshire primary now just less than a week away, Nikki Haley might need to explain this one. In an interview with Fox News, Haley was asked whether the Republican Party was a racist party. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NIKKI HALEY (R), U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We're not a racist country, Brian. We've never been a racist country. Our goal is to make sure that today is better than yesterday. Are we perfect? No, but our goal is to always make sure we try and be more perfect every day that we can. I know I faced racism when I was growing up, but I can tell you today is a lot better than it was then.

Our goal is to lift up everybody, not go and divide people on race or gender or party or anything else. We've had enough of that in America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Now, Haley has recently faced blowback from another comment that she made when she was asked about the cause of the Civil War and she didn't cite slavery. She later cleaned that up, as I suspect we might see her doing with this one.

Former Congressman Joe Walsh back with us. It was interesting, I will say, as she went on to say that she had faced racism herself after saying that. I almost wondered if she had sort of caught herself about how bad it might be, what it was that she said.

FMR. REP. JOE WALSH (R-IL): No, I don't think she did, Brianna. Look, the bottom line is Nikki Haley is afraid. That was a scared answer. That was a fearful answer. She's afraid to tell Republican voters the truth.

This is what got her in trouble a few weeks ago with the Civil War answer, to say that America has never been a racist country. Slavery, our original sin. Hello, Jim Crow. We still have aspects of systemic racism in this country.

Brianna, she's afraid to tell the Republican base the truth. She doesn't deserve to beat Trump like that and she certainly can't beat Trump if she's afraid to tell Republican voters the truth.

MARQUARDT: And Joe, Trump does get away with mistakes like this. What efforts do you think she's going to make now to try to clean this up? What kind of, you know, implications are there going to be for her?

WALSH: Alex, you make a great point. Trump gets away with this stuff because he's the leader of a cult and he can do no wrong. And so, every other Republican candidate thinks that they can be that way. They can't. And Nikki Haley can never out-cruel Donald Trump.

[16:00:00]

She just can't. She cannot beat Donald Trump. So, she'll try to walk this back as best as she can, but it won't matter.

She is a fearful politician and she's never going to win the Republican primary being that way.

KEILAR: Joe Walsh, thank you so much for being with us. We do appreciate it. We'll have to see. This is what she said this morning. We'll have to see how she deals with it --

MARQUARDT: Maximum opposition. There's never been racism in this country.

KEILAR: -- later today.

And "THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts now.