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Trump in New York Court for Second E. Jean Carroll Defamation Trial; Today, Trump, Haley, Gov. Ron DeSantis (R-FL) Campaign in New Hampshire Ahead of Primary; Today, Biden Hosts Meeting with Congressional Leaders. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired January 17, 2024 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right.

[10:00:00]

Any moment now, we expect the woman who won a defamation case against Donald Trump about sexual abuse, she is to take the stand with Donald Trump sitting just feet away. We're getting new details from inside the courtroom.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: And it is all about New Hampshire and Donald Trump is, as John just said, back in New York. Trump, Haley, DeSantis, all sharpening their attacks with so much on the line.

BERMAN: And breaking news this morning out of London. The Princess of Wales, Kate Middleton, she is in the hospital after abdominal surgery. We are told she will be there for two weeks. That's a long time. We have very few details here, but we will tell you what we are learning.

Sara is away. I'm John Berman with Kate Bolduan. This is CNN News Central.

BOLDUAN: Right now, Donald Trump is back in the courtroom where his accuser, E. Jean Carroll, will soon take the stand and he will be watching there, feet away as Carroll testifies right in front of them, face to face, they will be, essentially.

The columnist is already sued and won a sexual battery civil case against the former president, but today's case is about defamation. She is suing over remarks that he made in 2019 about her. Her attorneys claim his comments destroyed her sense of safety, ruined her reputation. But Trump's lawyers say that Carroll used the spotlight to make a name for herself.

I'm joined now by CNN's Paula Reid and CNN Legal Analyst Jennifer Rodgers for more on this. Paula, let's start with you. What is going to happen? What's happening in the courtroom? What does this today mean?

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: So, yesterday was a pretty busy day. They were able to select this jury of nine people. The jury will remain anonymous as they assess whether E. Jean Carroll should receive damages for that statement that Trump made in 2019. Trump was in attendance yesterday, but he left before the opening statements. So, both sides really laid out their theory of the case. Her lawyers argue that he used the world's biggest microphone to attack her and that she lives in fear and is entitled to significant damages. But Trump's lawyers argue that actually her career prospered after she made these accusations.

Trump did not stay, like I said, for those opening statements, but he's back again today for what could really be quite a significant day in this brief trial. And this is, of course, the expected testimony of E. Jean Carroll.

Now, she testified in the trial back in May, where a jury assessed her allegations about what happened in a department store in the mid-90s and claims of defamation. They ultimately found Trump liable for sexual abuse and defamation and awarded her $5 million.

Her testimony during that trial last spring incredibly emotional, you can tell this is something that has had a profound impact on her. But what I've seen for years and years now of covering cases related to sexual abuse, it is very difficult for survivors often to tell their story and, in this case, talk about the impact that something has had on them when the accused is just a few feet away.

So, this is going to be really a pretty significant, possibly very emotional event in the course of this trial. And, of course, after she testifies, she can be cross-examined by Trump's attorneys.

BOLDUAN: What is the impact, Jennifer -- not only clearly an impact on having Donald Trump in the room and in the courtroom for all of this, what could be or do you think would be the impact that his presence could have on the jury as all of this is happening and E. Jean Carroll's on the stand?

JENNIFER RODGERS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, it's a really interesting question because, of course, he wasn't there last time and the jury sees everything. You know, if you watch the jury you will see them paying, of course, close attention to the witness, but in this case, I think they'll also be paying close attention to Donald Trump and seeing his reactions as she testifies. So, I think it's going to be almost like a tennis match, ping-ponging in between what she is saying, his reaction to it, it's going to be fascinating to watch for those in the courtroom. But it really will be a big difference this time around.

BOLDUAN: The jury will remain anonymous but what do we know about the jury?

RODGERS: So, we don't know much because the judge specifically instructed them not to reveal too many personally identifying details. But what was so fascinating yesterday during jury selection was to see there are several dozen people there for the larger jury pool.

Everyone nearly had heard of this case and there were a lot of connections to Trump and the Trump family. Someone had worked in communications for Ivanka Trump. Someone else worked for a moving company that serviced buildings. These three people had donated to Trump or affiliated groups. Of course, ten people had donated to Biden and affiliated groups. But it was really interesting to see the diverse array of people who were assembled.

And then again, they chose nine, but they will remain anonymous. And that's not a surprise because we have seen judges, court workers and jurors and other Trump-related cases facing threats.

BOLDUAN: One of the perspective jurors from the reporting coming out yesterday, they were asked about political donations, as Paula was getting to Trump and his political problems, also whether they believe the 2020 election was stolen and how they got their news. What are they trying to suss out in this kind of questioning?

RODGERS: So, there are two ways to get a juror dismissed.

[10:05:00]

One is for cause, if they really do have a conflict, they've worked too closely or personal knowledge of the parties. The other is a peremptory challenge, right? Each side has the ability to strike people for reasons they don't have to explain.

So, by asking some of these questions about these issues, you know, do you believe the election was stolen, as former President Trump, of course, has been pushing for so many years, he's asking a few questions that the parties might then be able to say, listen, if this person is such a Trump fan that they believe the election is stolen, we may strike them with one of our peremptory challenges.

BOLDUAN: What do we know and what do you gather from opening statements coming from E. Jean Carroll's attorney for what we could hear in her testimony today?

REID: They're going to talk about what it feels like when Trump turns his supporters on you, right? This is something we've seen again and again. But to hear someone speak firsthand about the impact that that has on your life, on your career, what your day-to-day is like, if you feel under that kind of threat.

We heard a little bit of this from her again last spring. I don't -- we're obviously not going to talk about the incident at the heart of these allegations. We're just going to be talking about the impact that this has had on her life.

So, I think it's going to be a lot about that firsthand experience of what happens when Trump turns his ire on you.

BOLDUAN: Part of Trump, the Trump attorney's opening statement, I want to read just part of what we heard, Jennifer, which is, here she is looking for you to give her a windfall, because some people on social media said mean things about her, also saying, imagine if every time a public person got a mean tweet, they could get money. What do you think of that? And what are they setting up here?

RODGERS: Yes, this is a risky argument, but it's part of trying to separate what Trump didn't said from what his supporters, who they say, oh, Trump has no control over other people, right, what they didn't say.

So, he's just saying, you know, listen, I'm not responsible for what other people do. This has been a theme with everything. Every time someone has turned to him and say something that you said has caused damage, problems, threats, et cetera, he always says, well, I'm not responsible for what other people do.

So, this is part of that same argument, get them to blame the anonymous people who actually sent these tweets and ruined her life from the person who actually set that in motion.

BOLDUAN: And, Paula, E. Jean Carroll has already been awarded $5 million at the previous trial that we're talking about, the previous civil case. This was in May 2020.

REID: I was there, as long I remember.

BOLDUAN: The fact that Trump has already been told he has to pay E. Jean Carroll, does that impact, could that impact, do you think, how the jury assesses how much or if any he should pay here?

REID: It's unlikely. I mean, one thing that's interesting about this is you've already carried over that verdict, that yes, he's actually abuser, he defamed her. And because these statements that the jury was weighing back in the spring and these 2019 statements are so similar, the judge said, look, we're just going to look at damages.

Notably, while she was awarded $5 million in that case, approximately $3 million of which was for defamation, here, she's asking for $10 million.

So, it will be interesting to see how they approach that number. But a lot of it's going to speak to her testimony and that of experts and just the impact that they believe that these words had on her, because, remember, he was in the White House during this time. So, he was arguably at his zenith in terms of influence and that bully pulpit.

And as many of our colleagues, as many people have experienced, when he turns his spotlight, right, his ire on you, your voicemail, your email, potential people show up at your house, everything is flooded with threats, you have very stressful, scary experience. So, it will be interesting to see how her testimony registers with the jury.

BOLDUAN: I absolutely agree. Thanks. It's great to see you. Good to see you in person, Paula, great to have you, Jennifer. John?

BERMAN: So, once Donald Trump leaves this New York courtroom, which we should note, is very much the campaign trail for him, he will go to New Hampshire, also the campaign trail, where he'll join the two other top Republican presidential candidates now less than a week away from the New Hampshire primary.

CNN's Omar Jimenez is on Hampton Beach this morning with what we can expect today, Omar.

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, John. Well, one, we've got a lot of candidates out and about. Everybody is trying to cut into what has essentially been domination by Trump, leading up to this point, both in the polls, but also, of course, in the caucuses that we saw just a few days ago at this point.

Now, Nikki Haley in this particular state, at least coming in, seems better positioned to actually pose a serious challenge to Trump. Coming in, she had polled within single digits. Some polls have shown her within single digits of the former president. We've also got a much more moderate voting base here, which is a group that she's polled much better than Trump with.

So, those are sort of the inroads that her team is looking to try and take advantage of in these final days to not only get close to the president but to actually beat the president in this state, which they believe they can do, and is why they are framing things as a two- person race.

[10:10:05]

That said, Ron DeSantis finished second in Iowa. And while he hasn't polled his well here in New Hampshire, he is also trying to take whatever he can from this particular state.

We went around and talked to voters across this area, specifically undeclared voters, as are known here, independents, specifically also to get their reaction from what we saw in Iowa. Take a listen to some of them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIMENEZ: Did Trump's win in Iowa surprised you in any way? Does it motivate you in any way?

KAYLYN CAULFIELD, NEW HAMPSHIRE UNDECIDED VOTER: It surprised me a little bit, yes.

JIMENEZ: Why did it surprise you?

CAULFIELD: Just because I just -- you know, with all this, you know, allegations and all that, I mean, it's -- I don't know. I'm a fence.

KEVIN CLARK, NEW HAMPSHIRE UNDECIDED VOTER: I was a little surprised the results to see the level of popularity given he hadn't attended any of the events or been involved in any of the debates, et cetera. So, I would have liked to see a little more participation from him.

GARY HOULE, NEW HAMPSHIRE UNDECIDED VOTER: I ruled him out in the primary, but he worked to win the nomination, then he'd be ruled back in because --

JIMENEZ: You've got him over Biden?

HOULE: Oh, absolutely. (END VIDEO CLIP)

JIMENEZ: And that's the environment that these candidates are trying to cut into Trump. Again, as you mentioned, when he leaves court, he'll come here for events. Ron DeSantis, not too far from where we are, is going to have an event earlier this afternoon, Nikki Haley this evening as well, less than a week away.

BERMAN: All right. Omar Jimenez on the beach, keep us posted, Omar. Kate?

BOLDUAN: So, Donald Trump's commanding win in Iowa, no doubt, puts him closer to securing his third presidential nomination, Republican presidential nomination. Well, many Republican lawmakers, as we have seen, have been quick to endorse Trump. Others, though, remain uneasy about his possible return to the White House, and they're now privately hoping he loses momentum.

CNN's Manu Raju has some new reporting on this. He's joining us now. Manu, what are you hearing from lawmakers?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean, I've spent the last day along with several of our colleagues talking to a number of Republicans in the House and the Senate about Trump's dominating win in Iowa and the very likelihood that he will once again be the party's nominee.

And you're just seeing a split that we have seen for so many, so much time within the GOP. Yes, Trump has gotten more support within the House and Senate Republican conferences, more people coming out endorsing them, like his one-time rival Ted Cruz just yesterday.

But there are just a number of Republicans who are simply not there yet, fearful of his impact down the ticket, including Senator John Thune of South Dakota, the number two Senator Republican, who told me that, quote, I have always been worried about Trump's viability as a general election candidate, warning, frankly, that if he's unable to appeal to the middle, which Thune is skeptical that he would be, that that could hurt their candidates down the line, particularly as they tried to take back the Senate majority.

There are all hosts of other members, people who had hoped that someone else would emerge from this crowded primary field, people like Senator Todd Young of Indiana, someone who did not want Donald Trump to get the nomination, didn't want to address Trump's dominating win on Monday when I talked to him about this just yesterday.

Several of those as well, there were some members from the Iowa delegation themselves, Congressman Marianette Miller-Meeks of Iowa. I just tried to ask her a question about whether she voted for Trump in the Iowa caucuses. She would not say that. Neither would Senator Joni Ernst, who appeared in a rally for Nikki Haley in the closing days of the Iowa caucuses. I caught up with her. I tried to ask her about Trump's win, whether she would support her, him at this moment, she is not willing to go there. There are other members of the Senate Republican leadership in that position as well. Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell has made it clear for some time. He wants to move on from the Trump era, does not want to discuss Trump much at all after January 6th.

That is a much different view than House Republicans, including the House Republican leadership. The speaker of the House there, Mike Johnson, was one of the first to congratulate Trump for his victory, has endorsed Donald Trump. But that split only bound to persist as Trump moves closer to the nomination, potentially with a win in New Hampshire next week. Guys?

BOLDUAN: Manu, thank you so much always for your great reporting. John?

BERMAN: All right. A key meeting at the White House very shortly that might be the last chance for new aid to Ukraine.

And happening now, the Supreme Court hearing all arguments in a case that really just could reshape how the federal government works.

And then a former church now serving as a shop for Trump merchandise, the man behind some of the popular and profane memorabilia.

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BERMAN: Today, President Biden is hosting congressional leaders for a key meeting at the White House. Aid to Ukraine hangs in the balance. This could be the last chance to get new aid for Ukraine this year. Sources tell CNN the president plans to focus on the, quote, cost of inaction if they don't get something done here.

With us now is Senator Chris Van Hollen, a Democrat from Maryland who is on the Budget Committee. Senator, thank you so much for being with us. What does President Biden need to do with this meeting today?

SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D-MD): Well, John, it's great to be with you. This is a very important, very high stakes meeting at the White House. It would be a huge blow to American leadership around the world if we abandon the people of Ukraine to Putin's aggression, not just in terms of denying the people of Ukraine their sovereignty and their democracy, but it would send a terrible message to both friend and foe around the world.

So, I think President Biden going to talk about this very historic moment and how we cannot walk away, that walking away from Ukraine means walking away from U.S. credibility and responsibility around the world.

[10:20:10]

And obviously they'll also talk, John, about the other elements of a package. BERMAN: Well, which is because Ukraine -- aid to Ukraine has been tied to some kind of action or deal for the southern border, and there have been Senate leaders, or not Senate leaders, senators on both sides the aisle in negotiations trying to hammer out a deal.

But we're getting word from the House side, Republicans in the House, that whatever the Senate comes out with, the House isn't even going to listen to, right? Punch Bowl News is reporting Speaker Mike Johnson and his leadership team gave the clearest signal yet that the emerging Senate deal on border security and immigration is DOA in the House.

On a House GOP conference call Sunday night, Johnson said Congress can't solve the crisis at the border until Donald Trump or another Republican is in the White House. So, Johnson is saying it doesn't matter what deal is reached in the Senate, we're not doing anything. Your response.

VAN HOLLEN: Well, John, I was very worried when I saw those comments from Speaker Johnson, because what it indicates is that he and his House Republican colleagues want to play politics on border security. President Biden's supplemental has lots of resources for more Border Patrol agents. We are, as you mentioned, in discussions on some targeted policy changes. We got to see the details.

But for Speaker Johnson to preemptively say that whatever we do in the Senate on a bipartisan basis is dead on arrival is a total abdication of American leadership. And it tells me that Republicans simply want to use the border security as a political issue in the election, that they're not interested in solving the issue right now.

BERMAN: What kind of a bind does it put Republican senators, James Lankford from Oklahoma, who's involved in these negotiations, what kind of a bind does that put him in?

VAN HOLLEN: Well, you're exactly right. I mean, I think what Speaker Johnson and the MAGA Republicans in the House are trying to do is exert pressure on Senate Republicans to not go along with an agreement, even though an agreement could find some potential middle ground here.

So, I hope that Senate Republicans will not be deterred by what Speaker Johnson is doing. It's totally reckless to, first of all, tie aid to Ukraine to resolving the border issue, but especially if they're not willing to resolve the border issues.

We need to deal with both, but tying them together, as Republicans have done, could result in decades of undermining American leadership around the world. This is really an important moment in history, and I hope that Speaker Johnson won't take the position that they won't accept any agreement reached on a bipartisan basis in the Senate for political reasons, just to have the issue of border security in the election.

BERMAN: How closely are you watching the Republican nominating contest, the presidential election? VAN HOLLEN: Well, I'm following it closely. I didn't think there were any real surprises the other night in Iowa. Donald Trump was expected to do well. He did do well. I will say, if you look closely at the results there, very interestingly, Donald Trump did not do very well in some of the more urban and suburban areas, which spells trouble for him in the general election.

BERMAN: Do you think President Biden is doing well compared to his own past performance in those areas? And I asked because there was a poll out of Georgia just Monday, which got obscured by Iowa that shows President Biden trailing Donald Trump substantially in Georgia.

VAN HOLLEN: Well, look, John, what I saw were the results in Iowa, the polling will go up and down throughout the year. I do think President Biden is getting the word out more and more in terms of the benefits to the American people from his economic policies and the contrast will not be clear when you're talking about Trump chaos, when you're talking about a Republican Party that wants to take away women's reproductive freedoms, not just at the state level, which is bad enough, but at the federal level.

So, I think when this comes down to it and people focus on Trump versus Biden, Biden is going to do well.

BERMAN: The State of the Union Address first week of March basically, what does President Biden, in your mind need to accomplish before he walks up that podium?

VAN HOLLEN: Well, I think he needs to be prepared, and what he's going to do is talk to the American people and to the Congress about how his economic plan is making a positive difference for working Americans. Unemployment is down, inflation is coming down. Prices did go up because you had a lot of corporations taking advantage of things like the COVID-19 pandemic to raise prices, but now they're stabilizing.

[10:25:08]

So, I think President Biden has a very good new story to tell, and he's going to tell it, and he's going to talk about next steps, a child tax credit, which we're trying to get passed here, to cut childhood poverty in half, which we were successful at doing for a short period of time a number of years ago, but it lapsed, which was really an awful result. We're trying to bring that back.

So, I think the president will talk about lots of important things he's doing on the economy and also provide these contrasts that I mentioned.

BERMAN: Senator Chris Van Hollen from Maryland, always great to have you on. Thank you so much.

VAN HOLLEN: John, great to be with you. Thanks.

BERMAN: All right. Excessive and pesky overdraft fees may be a thing of the past. The new rules the Biden administration is rolling out. And breaking news this morning, the princess of Wales, Kate Middleton, she's in the hospital and could be there for two weeks, a long time. Not many details here, but we are getting some new information in.

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