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Battle For New Hampshire; Significant Medical Procedures For King Charles and Princess Kate; E. Jean Carroll Takes the Stand. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired January 17, 2024 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:36]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN HOST: Donald Trump is in court, and E. Jean Carroll is on the stand saying that she's there to stop him from telling lies. We will take you to the courthouse.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: Very shortly, President Biden holds a critical meeting at the White House with congressional leaders.

And just moments ago, House Speaker Mike Johnson said to expect a fight over the president's border policies.

We have breaking news out of London. We just learned that King Charles is headed to the hospital soon for treatment, and this just after we learned that the princess of Wales, Kate Middleton, could be in the hospital for weeks after undergoing surgery, and the palace releasing very few details on that.

Sara is away today. I'm John Berman with Kate Bolduan. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

BOLDUAN: So, right now, E. Jean Carroll is on the stand testifying against Donald Trump, and she also just testified that her goal in bringing this case is to make the former president stop telling lies about her.

Carroll opened her testimony claiming that Donald Trump ruined her reputation, saying -- quote -- "Previously, I was known simply as a journalist. Now I'm known as a liar, a fraud and a whack job."

CNN's Kara Scannell has more from outside the courthouse.

Kara, what are you learning from inside?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, Kate, E. Jean Carroll has been on the stand for about an hour.

There was a slight delay because of jury transportation issues, but she kind of started out of the gate laying down what this case is about, and that is the potential harm that she received when Donald Trump denied her allegations of rape and then said that she wasn't his type and that she made it up to sell a book.

So what she testified to right at the start was, she said: "I'm here because I was assaulted by Donald Trump. And when I wrote about it, he said it never happened. He lied and he shattered my reputation."

So, right as E. Jean Carroll said that, Donald Trump, who is facing her sitting at least three tables back from her, he was shaking his head side to side in a sign that it never happened. And this is, of course, the issue in this case.

So she has mostly been giving background about her growing up, how she made it as an advice columnist, and they have just now gotten to the part of the story of what happened after she published her book with the rape allegation and Donald Trump began making his statements, so beginning to show the statements that a previous jury has already found to be defamatory.

The next phase will be getting into what happened after that. So, we have led up to this point so far. I mean, there's been a lot of objections so far during the trial, but Donald Trump otherwise is sitting straight ahead. He's passed a few notes to his attorneys, leaned over to his lead attorney, Alina Habba, whispering to her a few times, but no other grand reaction.

It was just that first statement with Carroll saying what happened, Trump shaking his head side to side that it didn't. The jury has been paying attention. They have been watching Carroll, watching her attorney ask the questions. And this is now just really getting into what the heart of this case is.

That is what happened to E. Jean Carroll after Trump made these statements that the jury had found to be defamatory. And then his attorney will have an opportunity to cross-examine her after that -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: All right, bring us more updates as they come. Kara, thank you so much.

Kara Scannell from outside the courthouse.

BERMAN: All right, obviously, this is happening right now. We will continue to get those updates from the witness stand as they come in.

In the meantime, with us is former assistant special Watergate prosecutor Nick Akerman.

Nick, thank you so much for being with us.

Let me read one other quote from E. Jean Carroll about Donald Trump. She says: "He has continued to lie. He lied last month. He lied on Sunday. He lied yesterday. And I'm here to get my reputation back and to stop him from telling lies about me."

Now, presumably, her testimony is something that was prepared, along with her attorneys. Why is this the message they wanted to deliver?

NICK AKERMAN, FORMER ASSISTANT SPECIAL WATERGATE PROSECUTOR: Well, it's the message that gets them the big damages. They're looking for big bucks here, for compensation for damages, including punitive damages. So that's the thrust of her claim. And that's what she's going to be

testifying to. But the key piece here is going to be the cross- examination, because I think what's going to happen here is that Trump's lawyers are going to make the same rookie mistake they made in the first trial by keeping her on the stand for a day-and-a-half and basically building up her credibility.

[11:05:00]

And I think you're going to see the same thing happen here. So, even though we're going to see the direct testimony today, what we really have to be focused on is that cross-examination. Particularly with Donald Trump in the courtroom, he is going to be directing his attorney to just go after Jean Carroll.

And the more she goes after Jean Carroll, the more credible that Jean Carroll is going to come across to the jury.

BERMAN: While you were talking, we have been joined by CNN chief legal affairs reporter Paula Reid.

Paula, yes, this is a case that everyone's watching. Yes, it involves Donald Trump, the former president of the United States. But at a basic level, what you have here is someone who has accused a man of sexual abuse on the stand, testifying about that with the guy sitting just feet away.

Talk to us about the dynamics here.

PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

And a reminder, there was a trial last spring, where a jury weighed her accusations and found Trump liable for sexual abuse and defamation, awarded her $5 million in damages.

But she testified in the spring. Trump, though, did not participate in that trial at all. So what makes this testimony unique, as you said, is, he's in the room. He's just a few feet away. Yesterday was the first time in decades that Trump and E. Jean Carroll had been in the same room.

And she's going to talk about the impact that his statements had on her life, incredibly personal, a very difficult thing to go through when someone as powerful and in some sectors popular as Trump turns his ire on you. Your voice-mail box, your e-mail box, your family, they are flooded with threats, with messages.

It is a very difficult thing to go through. And underlying these statements, of course, are these allegations of sexual abuse. And I have seen this in cases that have covered over the years. It can be incredibly difficult for survivors of sexual abuse to testify in any courtroom, but particularly when the perpetrator is just feet away.

So we will be watching to see how she handles this. So far, this has been a lot of rehash just about her career, but we're going to get into some deeper stuff soon. BERMAN: How did she handle the cross-examination in the first trial?

And what does that tell us about what she might be anticipating this time around?

REID: Yes, they had a delicate task. Cross-examining someone who is alleging sexual abuse or sexual misconduct, it's a very sensitive thing.

And in that case, Trump had a different lawyer representing him, Joe Tacopina. And he actually -- he did quite a good job. Joe is a very brash New Yorker, very experienced lawyer. People had a lot of questions about how he was going to approach this. And he did it very delicately.

Alina Habba here has, again, this delicate task of cross-examining E. Jean Carroll here. So far, Habba's decorum in the courtroom has antagonized the judge a little bit. She has been a pretty aggressive advocate for her client, trying to relitigate issues, which has antagonized the judge.

I know I have interviewed Alina on shows about her clients. She can be pretty aggressive. Let's see how she handles this test. This is not easy. And, again, there's the jury, but there's also her client.

BERMAN: We will come back to that dynamic in just one second.

But before we get to that, Nick, I just didn't want to ask you. We mentioned before that the "Access Hollywood" tape, where Donald Trump is on video for the whole world to see...

AKERMAN: Right.

BERMAN: ... talking about grabbing women, that is going to be, we understand, submitted today into evidence. What role does that play here?

AKERMAN: Oh, it has a huge role, because it basically -- just as the judge, Kaplan, found when he allowed this in, in pretrial motions, that this is essentially the same kind of situation that happened to E. Jean Carroll.

She's basically describing what he said on that tape. I mean, you can't have better corroboration than him making that statement on that tape. It's extremely powerful. It's in his own words. And then, on top of it all, he was questioned about it in a deposition, which is also going into evidence, where he basically admits what he said.

It's just the most damning testimony for him.

BERMAN: So, Paula, you and I have talked quite a bit about the fact that this is not just a courtroom appearance, a legal matter. This is a campaign stuff for Donald Trump.

REID: Oh, yes.

BERMAN: And there's quite a bit that they want to get out of this. Right now, they're trying to get out -- they're trying to achieve

their task through the lawyer, Alina Habba, who you have been talking about at length.

REID: Yes.

BERMAN: She's had a few exchanges with the judge even today. She has been trying to get this trial delayed, so that Donald Trump could go to his mother-in-law's funeral in Florida.

REID: Yes.

BERMAN: That's what Alina Habba is saying. The judge just says, Trump doesn't have to be here. He can go to the funeral and still attend the trial, but she keeps on asking. And the judge seems to be getting a little bit miffed that she keeps on asking.

REID: Exactly. The legal team did ask the entire trial, let the entire trial be delayed. That was denied.

Yesterday, she brought up the possibility of adjourning tomorrow, the day of the funeral. That was also denied. She brought it up again today, and the judge is saying, look, he has a right to be here or be represented by counsel. Those are his rights. No one is infringing on his rights. I'm not going to move this case.

But the way it's likely to be framed going forward is that Trump is being treated unfairly, which I think is why you see her continuing to bring this up, because Alina Habba is not only his lawyer in this case. She's also his spokeswoman, right?

[11:10:07]

And they're looking here to frame him as the victim of an unfair system.

BERMAN: And the judge told her to sit down at the end of...

(CROSSTALK)

REID: And then he told her to stand up when she objected. Stand up. Sit down.

But that's federal court, right?

BERMAN: That is federal court.

All right, Nick, Paula, thank you both very much -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: We have some breaking news out of London right now. We have just learned that King Charles will be going to the hospital next week.

And it also comes just as we have also learned this morning that Kate Middleton, the princess of Wales, is in the hospital right now after undergoing abdominal surgery, and she could be there for up to two weeks with much longer recovery after that.

Let's get back over to CNN's Max Foster for more on this.

Max, what can you tell us about King Charles?

MAX FOSTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, a statement saying he sought treatment for an enlarged prostate, His Majesty's condition is benign, they're pointing out.

He will get to hospital, as you say, next week for a corrective procedure. His public engagements have been postponed. That's why they're announcing it, a source is telling me. He had a big event yesterday in Scotland involving Cabinet ministers, foreign dignitaries. He didn't want them to have to travel up there, because he couldn't go himself.

So, that's why they're announcing it today. And he's also -- a source also saying to me that he was keen to share the details of his diagnosis to encourage other men who may be experiencing symptoms to get checked in line with public health advice.

But, as you say, it does also come on the back of this news as well about the princess of Wales, who's in hospital. She's had a planned abdominal surgery. As you say, she could be there for two weeks, but then also have to recuperate for three months after at home, so two very senior royals out of action for now.

And William and Kate actually have canceled all of their future travel, obviously, their public engagements as well. So a lot of concern, but just to point out a source confirming to me that the princess' procedure was not related to cancer.

BOLDUAN: Yes, and that was an important -- albeit, there are very few details that are being released about her private medical issues, but this is the one thing that has been released.

For context, can you talk about the level of, like, what her public schedule usually can look like and what that means and how significant it is that they have essentially canceled it all until they kind of get a handle on how her recovery is going?

FOSTER: Well, she is busy, but she is very hands-on. She will be recuperating in Windsor. That is near her children's school. She's very involved in the school, so she really fits her public engagements around that.

But we have seen quite a lot of her recently. Over Christmas, she held -- hosted a carol service at Westminster Abbey, and she's been to a few events since when she can fit them in, effectively. She looks really well. She's very fit and healthy. She does a lot of sports. So, if anyone can recover from this quickly, it would be her, although a lot of people pointing out that this is a long period of recovery.

The palace don't like releasing any sort of medical details about any of the royals, but when they're in hospital, they almost have a public service to do that. As far as the king's concerned, they do see that as quite a routine procedure really for men of his age.

But he wants to highlight the fact that people should be getting themselves checked. But it did all come in one day, so quite a shock for British people, I think, and two senior royals out of action. We won't see them, the duchess -- the princess particularly very, very popular right now.

So they won't be able to -- the public won't see her for some time, and I think that will -- people will notice that.

BOLDUAN: Yes, absolutely.

Max, thank you for jumping back on, on this quite -- I mean, it's not often that you and I are talking about two different royals, two different medical issues on the very same day. Thank you so much. It's really good to see you, Max -- John.

BERMAN: All right, we're getting new reporting just in on campaign plans for Ron DeSantis, with the New Hampshire primary just a week away.

House Speaker Mike Johnson predicting battle just before heading to the White House for a key meeting with President Biden on aid to Ukraine.

A new video showing police deploying exploding flashbangs while raiding a home. There was a toddler on a ventilator inside.

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[11:19:07]

BERMAN: All right, on to New Hampshire.

The primary there is less than a week away, and we are getting new reporting on how Ron DeSantis plans to approach this all.

CNN's Omar Jimenez is on Hampton Beach in New Hampshire. Ron DeSantis will hold a campaign event in Hampton Beach later today.

Omar, what are you learning about the DeSantis campaign?

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, so they are saying point blank that they are in this for the long haul.

No matter what the poll or positioning looks like here in New Hampshire, in particular, they say they are going to be competing for delegates in every state, they are not looking toward any sort of finish line at this point. And they also predict, on February 25, that is when Nikki Haley is going to drop out of this race. That is what DeSantis campaign is predicting.

The reason that is significant is because it is right after the South Carolina primary, and they believe that she is going to be beat badly there. Now, if you ask the Haley campaign folks, they would tell you something much different. They are painting this as essentially a two- person race between her and former President Trump, looking specifically at the poll data here in New Hampshire showing her, in some cases -- at least some polls have shown her within single digits of the former president.

[11:20:18]

So, DeSantis leaning on his second-place finish in Iowa and what's later in the election calendar, and Haley, looking at her-third place finish in Iowa, is leaning on what's now and hoping to capitalize in her home state of South Carolina as well.

You mentioned coming to me, the DeSantis campaign, they have an event, a town hall in just a few hours, not far from where I am here in Hampton. But, also, Nikki Haley has an event later this evening, former President Trump who's starting his day in court once again, and then will make his way here to New Hampshire.

Trump, in particular, he's added a lot of events in this final stretch, leading some to believe that he may actually see Nikki Haley as a legitimate threat here. But, of course, polls are one thing. Securing final votes in these last few days is another thing. And we're less than a week away, so we will know very soon, John.

BERMAN: It's been clear for some time that he sees Nikki Haley as the biggest threat. That's where the spending has been from the Trump campaign and the super PAC. That's where his comments have certainly been in public.

We will wait to see what he hears today when he gets there.

Omar Jimenez, thank you so much -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Joining me now for more on all this is CNN political commentator, Republican strategist Alice Stewart, and CNN political commentator, Democratic strategist Maria Cardona.

It's great to see you guys.

Maria, attacks between the candidates, they're getting more pointed, they're getting louder, especially between Donald Trump and Nikki Haley right now. What does that mean for New Hampshire? What does that mean for New Hampshire voters?

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think it means that they are going to get a front seat to what is actually a very nasty campaign.

But it's so interesting, Kate, because it hasn't been until very recently that Nikki Haley realized that she actually has to beat Donald Trump, and in order to beat somebody, you have to go after them with where you think they have flaws. And that has been where she has not been able to do that. DeSantis has really been able to do that, until like a week ago.

And so New Hampshire, I think, is a little bit different, because that's where Nikki Haley has made sort of her last stand, where she is making the case to her voters that she is the one that can go up against Donald Trump.

But it doesn't seem like there's a path after New Hampshire. Even if she comes within single digits of Donald Trump, she will call that a win, but, if Donald Trump wins, he will have come off of a massive win in Iowa. And as you move forward in the Republican calendar, a lot of the contests become, in terms of delegates, winner-take-all, which is why this is going to be so tough for anyone else to really catch up to Donald Trump at this point.

BOLDUAN: I want to get to delegates and the talk of delegates in just a second.

But, Alice, do you think -- from a communications perspective and from the campaigns that you have advised, do you think that Nikki Haley at this point, even though it's kind of been an evolution in how directly she takes on Donald Trump and how she talks about it, do you think that she -- forget will, because we don't know their campaign strategy, but do you think she should be going after him even more directly, even more pointedly?

ALICE STEWART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Absolutely, without a doubt.

And I have said from the very beginning the way to Biden is directly through Trump, and they need to continue these attacks on Trump, and obviously understanding that they have to make sure that they do so in a way to thread the needle where they're not alienating his base.

But the goal is to appeal to the people that are ready to turn the page on Donald Trump. And the only way to do that is to show why you are a better candidate and why Donald Trump should not be the next president. And that is, as she has done in a subtle way, talking about how Trump has added to the debt, how he has been -- drama and a lot of chaos follows him, and she would be a new generation of optimism and future-looking vision for the people of this country.

And here's the important -- the gloves are off now. I mean, the display in Iowa goes to show that Donald Trump still has a stronghold on the Republican base and there is also an opening for another candidate. New Hampshire is going to be critical.

The former Governor John Sununu, the father of the current governor, famously said back in 1988, the people of Iowa pick corn, the people of New Hampshire pick presidents. The people in New Hampshire are looking at these candidates. They window-shop until the very last- minute. They are still comparing. They're kicking the tires and looking at all the candidates.

So, Nikki Haley is going to put her best foot forward. Certainly, DeSantis is doing so. I speak with his campaign manager, David Polyansky, often. He has always said they are going to run strongly through the finish line.

And, look, what they see Donald Trump is trying to do. Donald Trump wants this to be a sprint. He wants to get this knocked out quickly and let everyone galvanize behind him. DeSantis campaign says, we will see him at the 20-mile mark, this is a marathon, and we're not going to give up anytime soon.

[11:25:11]

BOLDUAN: You mentioned the deputy campaign manager. He was actually on CNN this morning.

Let me play what -- how he is framing the DeSantis campaign focus and strategy going forward. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID POLYANSKY, DESANTIS DEPUTY CAMPAIGN MANAGER: Our expectation IS pretty straightforward. We're going to grind in every state for delegates. We will do it here in New Hampshire. We're going to go to Nevada, where Nikki Haley is not even competing for delegates. We're going to go to South Carolina and do it.

And, on February 25, the day that Nikki Haley ends up having to drop out of the race after she gets wholly blown out in her home state, it will once again be a two-person race, as we predicted all along.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: My question to both of you, though, is, sure, of course, it has to do with delegates, but does he have a chance?

CARDONA: No, I don't think he does.

And I think that's exactly the problem. He can make that argument, because I also believe that Nikki Haley is going to get blown out in her own home state and it's going to be a huge embarrassment for her. She's making her last stand in New Hampshire, but South Carolina then becomes a much similar electorate to Iowa and, frankly, to the rest of the GOP base.

And Alice is right. Donald Trump has a stronghold,but he has actually a stranglehold on the Republican base. And that has been the problem all along.

BOLDUAN: On the base, but that's the difference in New Hampshire. You have got this big portion of undeclared, which, as I was talking to smart people in New Hampshire yesterday, the way it was described to me in one way is, the undeclareds in New Hampshire are basically Republicans, but just not -- without the title.

Alice, do you think that DeSantis has a chance then?

CARDONA: Right.

STEWART: Look, it is an uphill battle. There's no denying that.

Donald Trump has a strong, strong hold on the Republican Party and certainly the base, and we're looking and appealing to Republican base voters here. But I -- look, I don't think it's out of the question for any of these other candidates, DeSantis or Haley, to continue to fight, to fight hard. You never know certainly what's going to happen. In our entrance polls

the other day, we saw 61 percent of Republican voters say they would still see Trump as a fit president if he were to be convicted. That means 32 percent of them say that he would not be fit if he were to be convicted.

If I were looking at one of these campaigns, I would say that means 32 percent of Republican base voters, not to mention the general election candidates, do not think Trump would be fit if he were to be convicted. That's a compelling argument to make on the electability issue.

DeSantis has made the electability issue, being the governor in the state of Florida, and he is a winner, and he has pointed out Trump is a loser. So I think that would be a good argument moving forward as well.

BOLDUAN: It's great to see you both. Thank you.

CARDONA: I don't think it's enough, though, yes.

BOLDUAN: Final word.

CARDONA: I just don't think it's enough at this point.

BOLDUAN: And now final word is mine.

CARDONA: Yes.

BOLDUAN: Good to see you guys. Thank you so much -- John.

(LAUGHTER)

CARDONA: Thank you, Kate.

BERMAN: All right, President Biden hosting a critical meeting with congressional leaders today. The fate of more aid to Ukraine hangs in the balance, and House Speaker Mike Johnson with new fighting words just moments ago.

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