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Ten Killed in Pakistan Strikes; Peter Zwack is Interviewed about Pakistan and Iran; Carroll Resumes Testimony Today; Jeremy Saland is Interviewed about the Trump Defamation Case; Johnson Won't Commit to Immigration Deal. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired January 18, 2024 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00]

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Territory, saying they're hitting militants who've carried out attacks inside Iran in the past. And it totally shocks the Pakistani ruling establishment, which calls it basically a disruption of Pakistan's sovereignty, says at least two children were killed in the strikes.

And there are calls for retaliation. And that's what a number of hours ago the Pakistani military basically claimed responsibility for, saying that it fired, quote, "killer drones, rockets, loitering munitions and standoff weapons" into Iranian territory after targets that it claimed were ethnic Baluch separatist militants who they accuse of having operated from across this very long and porous border.

So, it's a messy situation. The Pakistanis seem to be leaving the door open to some kind of de-escalation right now. And the ball does appear to be in Iran's court, though Pakistan has withdrawn its ambassador from Tehran and it has said that Iran's ambassador to the Pakistani capital is not really welcome at this time.

So, this really is a diplomatic crisis between these two neighbors who basically didn't have any beef more than 48 hours ago.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, I mean it is extremely troubling and extremely rare. I don't know that we've seen this in our lifetimes. And thank you for clarifying that we are talking about central Asia as well. A lot of people think that Pakistan is the Middle East. Thank you. Appreciate it, Ivan.

John, this makes me really fearful of a huge conflagration in the area.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Look, there's a lot going on here. This is the location of the Pakistani strike inside Iran. And you can see some of the aftermath right there of what took place. This is the video. This is the Pakistani strike inside Iran. And then the Iranian strike inside Pakistan was about here.

With us now to discuss is retired General Peter Zwack. He is a global fellow at the Wilson Center and served as U.S. senior defense attache to the Russian Federation.

Again, Pakistan is a nuclear power, General. Iran, frankly, about to be a nuclear power. An exchange of fire back and forth here, what's the U.S. interest in this?

BRIG. GEN. PETER ZWACK, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Well, the U.S. interest in this is tremendous. Obviously, we will - we will watch closely. Our diplomats certainly are working behind the scenes. Certainly with Pakistan. Remember, Pakistan and India had a near miss potentially nuclear wise in 2019.

But when you look, John, at the whole aggregate of the Middle East and now central Asia, from the Mediterranean all the way to Iran, Pakistan, Baluchistan, almost the Afghan border, and then strikes and hits in Beirut, in Damascus, in Kharman (ph) in Iran near the Pakistani border, and now you have Pakistan and Iran. Yes, this is really, really dangerous. Not to mention Yemen and the ongoing horror in Gaza.

BERMAN: Well, you talked about Yemen. Let's take a look at what the U.S. continues to do. The U.S. continues to try to strike Houthi targets inside Yemen. These are just some of the locations that have been hit. Four rounds of attacks now. The U.S. continues to say it doesn't seek a wider conflict, but four rounds of attacks, General, isn't it already a wider conflict?

ZWACK: It already is a wider, if you will, but -- round of conflict, but we can see that the U.S. and the allied targeteers (ph) assisting them have been careful and measured in what they hit. They're still going after installations. They're going after the anti-ship (ph) missile launching sites and drone locations. So, it's been measured in that way.

Yet the Houthis go out, they've hit a couple of container ships recently, including a U.S. flagged one. And I worry that a lot of -- you have a lot of stuff flying in the air. Something eventually hits. And what happens when one of those missiles hits a U.S. or coalition ship or entity or base and people are killed in this level of tension all around that I've described in the whole Middle East and now central Asia.

BERMAN: It sounds like you're saying the U.S. attacks so far have not been much of a deterrent on the Houthis.

[09:35:05]

ZWACK: It seems -- well, the Houthis are hard, they're stubborn. They went through a tough war with the Saudis and UAE just ten years ago and fought them on to a standstill. And they're not going to -- they're not going to relent. And it looks like they're getting encouragement from their partners. Iran could tell them to stop. And while the Houthis have their own mind, they probably would slow down. But they're not getting that guidance from Iran and other nations, bigger nations.

Why doesn't Russia put pressure on Iran to put pressure on the Houthis to knock it off if they really, really believe there should be peace in the region?

BERMAN: Well -

ZWACK: No, this is hard.

BERMAN: Yes, it is. One possible reason for that is conflict in this region right here takes eyes off of what is happening in Ukraine up there, and Russia might be benefitting from all of this.

General Peter Zwack, thank you so much for being with us.

Rahel.

SOLOMON: All right, John, coming up for us, at any moment now E. Jean Carroll takes the stand. She will face questions from Donald Trump's lawyers. What will happen after yesterday's dramatic Trump courtroom appearance? We're live outside court coming up next.

And, is there any hope for a deal on immigration or Ukraine funding any time soon? Now House Speaker Mike Johnson tells CNN that the Senate deal, well, that may be dead on arrival.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:40:54]

SOLOMON: Welcome back.

Any moment now E. Jean Carroll is expected to resume testimony in her $10 million defamation trial against Donald Trump. She will be facing Trump's lawyers in cross-examination. Now, Trump will not be in court today as he attended his mother-in-law's funeral. But when he was in court yesterday, there were many contentious moments.

Let's go to CNN's Kara Scannell, who is live outside the courthouse.

So, Kara, talk to us about what we can expect to happen today.

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, so shortly E. Jean Carroll will be back on the stand today, resuming cross-examination by Donald Trump's attorneys. And as you say, he won't be in the room today, so that will be a different dynamic than yesterday. It was -- Carroll was testifying when questioned by her attorneys she was explaining the impact of the statements that Trump made when he denied that he raped her, said that she was a liar, and made up the story to sell her book.

And that's when we saw Trump beginning to react to that. He -- she said that he had shattered her reputation. And he was shaking his head side to side. And then he continued during her testimony to look toward his lawyer, whispering to her, as Carroll was explaining as a result of his statements she received numerous threats. Some of them, she said, she felt that her life was in danger. She said at some point that she thought that she was going to get shot. And she increased her own security members buy buying bullets for a gun that she kept by her bed and letting her Pitbull roam her yard to serve as sort of a patrol for her.

So, she was explaining all this. Trump commenting often to his lawyer. Then, when the jury had left, Carroll's attorney brought this up to the judge saying that they - where they were sitting could hear Trump saying words such as witch hunt and fraud and they were concerned that the jury would be able to hear that as well. And at that point the judge had said to Trump, you know, he had a right to be in the courtroom, but he could forfeit that right if he didn't behave in the decorum that's expected. Trump saying at that point, I would love it. The judge saying, I know you would.

Eventually, they took a break for lunch, and Trump came back and there were no additional challenges to that. But even Trump's attorney was asking the judge to recuse himself from this case, saying that there was general hostility toward the Trump team. But the judge, Lewis Kaplin, said in one word, denied, and the testimony continued.

So, Carroll will be back on the stand. Just expected to be for about a half hour this morning. And then her lawyers will call their other witnesses. They intend to call an expert in reputational harm to testify about the money amount that she could potentially receive from this jury in damages as well as Carroll's former editor in chief at "Elle" magazine, where she wrote the column for so many years.

Rahel.

SOLOMON: Yes, again, seeking $10 million there.

Kara Scannell, live outside the courthouse for us. Kara, thanks so much.

Guys.

BERMAN: All right, with us now is former Manhattan prosecutor Jeremy Saland.

And, Counsellor, we did just get word, by the way, that Judge Kaplan has taken the bench. And I'm very curious to see what he might say at the outset of this trial today, because I just want to go over once again the exchange between this federal judge and Donald Trump. Jeremy, we're going to do a dramatic reading here. I'm going to play the part of Judge Kaplan. Sara's going to play the part of Donald Trump.

OK, here we go.

JEREMY SALAND, FORMER MANHATTAN PROSECUTOR: (INAUDIBLE).

BERMAN: Judge Kaplan says, Mr. Trump, I hope I don't have to consider excluding you from the trial. I understand you're probably very eager for me to do that.

SIDNER: I would love it.

BERMAN: I know you would. You just can't control yourself in these circumstances, apparently. SIDNER: You can't either.

BERMAN: All right, Counsellor, you can't either. Someone in a courtroom just said that to a federal judge. I just want your reaction to that.

SALAND: You know, Donald Trump has become the personification of the decimation, if you will, of law and order. And it's really, really disgusting that this is allowed to happen. But the problem that the judge finds himself in, and any judge who's before - or let me say that another way, any judge where Donald Trump is before him or her, is really in a real bind because if you remove Donald Trump from court, you are going to give him what he wants, right? But if you allow him to speak and say the things that he does to cause that disarray, to cause that chaos, to cause - throw a complete wrench in the process, you are also giving him what he wants.

We mentioned the other day about a tight leash. There has to be a mechanism to do that because if it were you or me, any of the three of us, despite your amazing acting skills, if it was any one of us, we would be held in contempt, we would be removed, we would be -- find ourselves in major trouble and our credibility, obviously, would be obliterated.

[09:45:13]

BERMAN: I just want to hit that point one more time because one of the things that Donald Trump always complains about is he's being treated differently here. It seems to me, what you're saying, he may be being treated differently here in that anyone else who just told a judge, you can't control yourself would have been held in contempt and thrown out right then and there.

SALAND: John, unequivocally. And none of us, for the most part, would have the gall to behave the way he does. It's petulant and it's disrespectful. But he really believes he has the ability and the right, more importantly, he has the right to do so. And that's not the case. But it really puts the justice system in a bind because no matter what you do to this man, you will lose and he will use it as a weapon. He will weaponize it. And that's frightening for the process going forward for all of us.

SIDNER: In many ways that's why he shows up, because it is part of his campaign trail. It's not just about what is happening, which separates him from, you know, the rest of the folks who have to go through the system.

I do want to ask you exactly just to remind people -- we know that E. Jean Carroll has now taken the stand again -- but to remind people how we got here and what this case is about, what this part of the case is really about.

SALAND: Right. And that's fair because what has already happened is there's been a finding that he defamed E. Jean Carroll. There's been a finding that there's been damages of $5 million. There was really two separate parallel matters. This is that second one and now we've already dealt with what -- he defamed her, now what are the damages and how do we apply those damages and what can they be? That's what this is about. And the judge has already said - the judge has already tried to say to Donald Trump's team, keep your testimony and keep whatever it is you are doing on cross-examination to these issues. We are not going to relitigate whether or not you defamed her or what you did or didn't say. That's already resolved.

BERMAN: All right, Counselor, Jeremey Saland, we appreciate you being with us, laying out the reality here as we watch this all very closely. Thank you.

House Speaker Mike Johnson says he is willing to kill any Senate passed deal on immigration.

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[09:51:16]

BERMAN: All right, breaking news. We're getting our first look at this federal report on the law enforcement response to the massacre at the school in Uvalde, Texas, in 2022. Let me read you a few lines from this report. We're just seeing it for the first time.

"The response to the May 24th mass casualty incident at Robb Elementary School was a failure," this report says very bluntly. "Officers on the scene should have recognized the incident as an active shooter scenario and moved and pushed forward immediately and continuously towards the threat until the room was entered and the threat was eliminated. That did not occur."

All right, we are still, obviously, poring through the details of this report, but the conclusion, again, this was a federal investigation into the state and local response. It seems to be this was a clear failure of law enforcement. A failure to react to what was happening on the ground instead of going in, straight in with force, they waited outside, treating this as an individual barricade who would not do more harm in that 77 minutes. This report says, almost undoubtedly, cost more lives.

Again, we have our people going through this report right now. Much more in just a few minutes.

Rahel.

SOLOMON: Really chilling details there. John, thank you.

All right, Republican House Speaker Mike Johnson says that he will not budge on tying tough border restrictions to any more funding for Ukraine. Fresh off Wednesday's meeting at the White House, Johnson would not commit to putting an immigration deal on the House floor, even if it passes the Senate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): If the bill looks like some of the things that have been rumored, of course it's dead in the House because it wouldn't solve the problem. You can't just do pieces of this and leave, for example, parole untouched, leave the current broken parole process untouched because it's a giant loophole that would allow all these people to continue to come in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOLOMON: Now, Johnson did tell President Biden yesterday that House Republicans' hardline border security package wasn't a requirement in its exact entirety to strike a deal.

Let's bring in CNN's Lauren Fox, who joins us from Capitol Hill.

So, Lauren, there have been a few different threads on this. Break it down for us.

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, there's really two things going on. The first one is that Republicans in both the House and the Senate have required that tougher border security restrictions and policy changes be included in a supplemental package to give additional funding to Israel and Ukraine. However, what threshold is needed in order to get this a vote in the House of Representatives and whether it can actually pass that chamber remains to be seen.

Now, there still isn't a deal despite the fact that Senate negotiators have been working on this for months now, despite the fact that there is renewed optimism up here on Capitol Hill. I just talked to Dick Durbin, a leading Democrat on the Judiciary Committee, who told me he's been more optimistic in the last couple of days about this deal coming together than he has been in months.

But the issue is that even if the Senate can getting something passed, even if they can get something approved, will Mike Johnson put it on the floor given the reality that so many of his hardliners are threatening that this could be a major pitiful for Johnson if he makes a decision to put something on the floor that isn't exactly what the House of Representatives passed last year known as HR-2. They want tougher border security, and they're really not very willing to give many concessions despite the fact that this is the best opportunity in the eyes of many Senate Republicans that lawmakers have had for decades to do something on the border.

In fact, we heard this morning from Chris Coons, a Democrat in the Senate who has been around a long time, he said, Democrats' views on this issue, what they're willing to do in this moment, it's very different than what they would have been willing to do a year or so ago.

[09:55:05]

Rahel.

SOLOMON: We'll see if that will ultimately be enough.

Lauren Fox, live for us on Capitol Hill. Thank you, Lauren.

Sara. SIDNER: Thank you, my favorite monochromatic sister.

SOLOMON: Right back at you.

SIDNER: This morning we have new images of Prince Williams after he was visiting his wife, Princess Kate, at a hospital in London. She could be there up to two weeks after abdominal surgery. And next week her father-in-law, King Charles, will undergo a procedure for an enlarged prostate. Queen Camilla spoke this morning about her husband's condition while she was in Scotland.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How is his majesty?

QUEEN CAMILLA, UNITED KINGDOM: He's fine, thank you very much.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.

QUEEN CAMILLA: Looking forward to getting back to work.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: Now, both King Charles and the Princess of Wales are postponing royal duties, as you might imagine, as they should, while they recuperate. Kensington Palace says it could take up to three months for the princess to recover from her surgery. There is no word on what exactly the surgery was for, but sources say it was not cancerous.

Still ahead, John Berman, are you here? No.

Still ahead, breaking news into CNN, more on the federal investigation into law enforcement's response in Uvalde, Texas. We go there live with much more on what we are learning and what we're hearing from parents as well because they got a sneak preview of the report.

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[10:00:00]