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Trump Team: Taking Him Off Ballots Would "Unleash Chaos & Bedlam"; Haley, Trump, DeSantis Blitz NH 4 Days Before GOP Primary There. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired January 19, 2024 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[13:00:53]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: The clock is ticking, a new sense of urgency for Merrick Garland, as he speaks exclusively with CNN, why the Attorney General thinks a speedy trial in Donald Trump's election subversion case is in your best interest.

And it's make or break time, with voting in New Hampshire's presidential primary now just days away. Nikki Haley, Donald Trump, the top two contenders campaigning there today, how will last minute endorsement could now change this race.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: And a close call they really have to see to believe, a daycare center evacuated just minutes before this fiery explosion next door. We're going to speak with the D.C. fire chief about the heroic actions from first responders. We are following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

I'm Brianna Keilar alongside Boris Sanchez here in Washington. And as we enter this final weekend before the New Hampshire primary, Attorney General Merrick Garland has weighed in on this defining question of the 2024 election cycle. Will Donald Trump go on trial for federal charges tied to election subversion before votes are cast in the general election? Here's the Garland pulled are Evan Perez in a CNN exclusive.

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EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: One of the trials for the former President Donald Trump is scheduled for March. You know, some of the polling recently shows that three quarters of Republicans believe that he's being targeted for political reasons. Does it concern you that this public perception exists? And what can you do to try to change that?

MERRICK GARLAND, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: Of course, it concerns me. Special Prosecutor has said from the beginning that he thinks public interest requires a speedy trial, which I agree with.

PEREZ: You do?

GARLAND: I do. And the matter is now in the hands of a trial judge to determine when trials will take place.

PEREZ: The department has policies about steering clear of elections. Is there a date in your mind where it might be too late to bring these trials to fruition, again, to stay out of out of the way the elections and as the department policies?

GARLAND: Well, I'll just say, you know, what I said which is that the cases were brought last year, prosecutor has urged speeding trials with which I agree, and it's now in the hands of the judicial system.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ: Meantime, Trump's legal team is sending a warning to the Supreme Court. They're urging the justices to reverse the Colorado ruling that removed Donald Trump from the state's primary ballot. And a brief submitted by the former president's attorneys Thursday night, they warned the High Court that those efforts would quote promise to unleash chaos and bedlam if other state courts and state officials follow Colorado's lead and exclude the likely Republican presidential nominee from their ballots.

CNN senior Supreme Court analyst Joan Biskupic joins us now with more insight into this unprecedented case. So Joan, lay out the arguments from Trump's team.

JOAN BISKUPIC, CNN SENIOR SUPREME COURT ANALYST: Sure. Beyond the rhetoric, there were plenty of legal arguments addressed specifically to this case. You know what, the Section 3 of the 14th Amendment says that anyone who is an officer of the U.S. who had taken an oath to support the U.S. Constitution and then engaged in an insurrection cannot -- it can be barred from holding office in the future?

Trump's lawyers say number one, he's not an officer. I know that sounds a little counterintuitive. He's president. But under the terms and structure of the U.S. Constitution, they say officer would not cover president. That provision would cover members of the Senate members of the House, state officials but not the president.

They also say that under the terms of the Constitution, he did not engage in an insurrection. No prosecutor has tried to charge him with insurrection to this point. So that wouldn't cover him. And another argument among a couple others is that this provision would only cover someone who's about to hold office not to run for office and then in a sense Colorado has put an additional qualification on candidates in that state, which they say, is unconstitutional. So, myriad legal arguments, I, you know, we can talk about what my -- what the justices might go for and what they might not go for.

[13:05:21]

KEILAR: Yes, that's right, because this puts them in this tough position.

BISKUPIC: Yes.

KEILAR: Really. It's a highly political issue, whatever they end up deciding. How do they consider this?

BISKUPIC: OK, you know, they signed up for this. They agreed to take the case. It's politically fraught, legally fraught on January 5th. But they are getting the best arguments from both sides before them. And what the Trump team wants them to do is essentially decided kind of in a firm way, once and for all, and perhaps that the President is not an officer, don't give like a halfway ruling that would then cause further litigation down the road.

But this is, you know, the buck stops with them on this, they have to decide it. And it will affect obviously, not just Colorado, but Maine, where we see is still in flux, and many other states across the country, whether Donald Trump now the leading Republican contender will be on the ballot.

SANCHEZ: Notably, Joan, this comes at a time where the court is seen as highly politicized. I'm wondering how they personally weigh a decision like this when it comes to the political implications moving forward?

BISKUPIC: Well, I think what they have to do is to be as transparent as possible. We'll hear oral arguments on February 8th. We'll hear from the nine justices, what they're thinking. And then when they finally rule, they really need to show that they -- this is legally grounded, and head off those kinds of argument, Boris.

Now, remember, this is not a case that this issue has never been tested. So everybody's in unknown waters now. But I think what they've done so far is to inspire some confidence by laying out a briefing schedule, letting the public know how they're going to do it. Everyone will be able to listen to the oral arguments on February 8th. There'll be live stream.

And then if Chief Justice John Roberts and the majority can get their act together to roll, you know, in a way that's for one side or another, but with really sound legal reasoning that seems apparent to the public. I think they will be able to meet the test here.

KEILAR: Joan, thank you so much for that.

Let's talk now with white collar defense attorney Caroline Polisi. Caroline, we just heard Joan talking here about why some of the legal claims by Trump might appeal to the justices. Do you think that these arguments will hold some merit for them?

CAROLINE POLISI, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, Brianna. And Joan did a great job laying out sort of the merits of the argument digging into the text of the 14th Amendment, which you know, we've all now heard ad nauseam about this clause, which would, you know, which Colorado things bars Trump from being on the ballot.

I have to say, though, I don't think any of these nine justices want to touch the question of whether or not Trump engaged in insurrection with a 10 foot pole. My guess is they are going to make this decision on procedural grounds, that is not even get to the question on the merits, but rather say that it is not up to each individual state to decide how they're going to go about executing the 14th Amendment.

So the legal issue there is whether or not this clause is self- executing or not. There are good arguments on both sides. However, at its core, I think they will make a pragmatic decision on this one. And, you know, the problem with analyzing Trump's arguments, he makes so many frivolous arguments that it's hard to tell which ones are actually meritorious. But this argument that it will create bedlam and chaos is a good one.

And I do think the Supreme Court will be persuaded. They will want -- I mean, if Chief Justice Roberts has his way, he will want a unanimous decision putting forth a really united front on this answer so that the public has real faith in the answer. But I do not see a resolution wherein each state gets to decide for its own whether or not Trump will be on the ballot.

KEILAR: Yes, certainly you have Maine Secretary of State, who, by that state's law went through the process of removing Trump from the ballot there. Now is asking that Maine Supreme Court weigh in before the U.S. Supreme Court decides the Colorado case. This comes after a lower state court pause her decision pending the Supreme Court's review on February 8th, so even some kind of judicial acrimony there on this issue in the state. What would the effect be of this being settled there at the state level before SCOTUS weighs in?

POLISI: Yes, it's going to have to be, Brianna, similar to the Colorado case we're in any decision that is arrived at is what's known stayed pending Supreme Court review, meaning that he will be on the ballot. They will wait to hear. But both states have said they would like the Supreme Court to weigh in on the issue. And obviously this issue is percolating in, you know, a number of other states around the country.

[13:10:17]

Everybody is waiting with bated breath to hear the Supreme Court what they have to say on this issue, because it is so high stakes. This is a -- they did the right thing in taking this case. I think they may not take the presidential immunity case. But certainly this is a question that they just had no choice but to take.

KEILAR: When it comes to the federal elections diversion case against Trump, the Attorney General says it's in the public interest for there to be a speedy trial. How significant is it that he weighed in on this?

POLISI: Well, you'll notice Brianna that neither Merrick Garland nor Jack Smith can bring themselves to say the E word, election. They do not want to be seen as politically motivated at all. Jack Smith asked the Supreme Court to review the immunity claim. But in his brief -- he couldn't say why. He just alluded to these, you know, sort of vague concepts of it being a, you know, in the public interest to have a speedy trial.

Everybody knows that they want to get it in before the election. But that's not a proper reason, according to the DOJ. So they're playing this sort of delicate dance, wherein they are not saying that they want to get it in before the election. But everybody knows that that's really the goal here.

KEILAR: Yes, we're picking that up. Caroline Polisi, thank you so much for your insights.

POLISI: Thank you.

KEILAR: The Trump insult machine now in overdrive with the all- important New Hampshire primary just four days away. But Nikki Haley not taking his racist attacks lying down what the two candidates are saying about each other ahead of next Tuesday's showdown.

SANCHEZ: Plus, Israel's War Cabinet Minister calling for new elections, saying there's no trust in Netanyahu's government, details on that development and a new call between the Prime Minister and President Biden.

And later, more than a dozen kids evacuated from their daycare just moments before the building next door explodes. A conversation about what happened when we come back.

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[13:16:29]

KEILAR: The sprint is on because the New Hampshire Republican primary is just four days away. And Nikki Haley is really trying to do something that no GOP candidate has ever done before, beat Donald Trump. Forcing his other rivals to drop out and making it a two-person race between her and the former president for the rest of the primary season. And she's hoping New Hampshire with its larger share of independents and moderates who will be casting ballots is going to set the stage for this. A CNN poll taken before the Iowa caucuses found Haley is within reach of Trump's lead just seven points behind.

SANCHEZ: Now, Haley, has sharpened her criticism of the former president in recent days, including this morning, when she called him out for his false claim that Democrats can vote in the New Hampshire primary. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NIKKI HALEY (R), U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There are multiple instances that we need to start asking Donald Trump the questions and stop taking what he's saying to be golden.

The fact that Donald Trump's line, it's another reason why he won't debate me because he knows I'll call him out on it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Joining us now to discuss former Republican Congressman Francis Rooney and Kristian Ramos, a former spokesman for the Congressional Hispanic Caucus. Congressman, first to you this just into CNN, sources are indicating that former Republican candidate for president, Tim Scott, is going to endorse Donald Trump tonight. Does that surprise you? Does that change in any way the dynamic in New Hampshire?

FMR. REP. FRANCIS ROONEY (R-FL): Well, it can't help Nikki Haley. It surprises me because I was certainly hopeful that Tim would endorse Governor Haley. They have a lot more in common than he has with Trump.

KEILAR: Yes, what do you think, Congressman, that's going to do going into the primary? Is that going to be very bad for her or not so much?

ROONEY: I don't think it's necessarily critical to her but it can't help. I mean, you know, there will be some votes that are close to Tim Scott, that are also very conservative that may get peeled off that might otherwise have gone to Governor Haley. I mean, in this kind of game, you never know until hindsight, what helped her hurt yet, but that can't help. But hopefully she's so strong. She's waging such a clear and determined campaign that she's going to win this thing. I think she's got a really good chance.

KEILAR: Yes. We're certainly watching this edge that she's sort of put in there. And Kristian, at the CNN town hall, Haley, she said something that it really raised a lot of eyebrows when she said this, she said she only wanted to do better than she did an Iowa. She said that she wanted to be strong. Now there's managing expectations, as you know, that's a key part of politics. And then there's that that she's doing there. How well does she really need to do, do you think in New Hampshire?

KRISTIAN RAMOS, FORMER DNC SURROGATE, OBAMA REELECTION CAMPAIGN: Well, she's got to win New Hampshire outright to keep this thing going. DeSantis is off the air right now everywhere. And Nikki Haley has an opportunity to consolidate should she have a strong showing here. But if she doesn't win this election, this primary is over and we move on to the general.

SANCHEZ: Is DeSantis done?

RAMOS: For all intents and purposes, DeSantis is done. What I'm hearing from conservative operatives out there is that right now there's a competition between Nikki Haley and Ron DeSantis to see if Donald Trump goes to jail. Does one of them become the mantle of the GOP Party in that instance? But, yes, I mean, from what I hear in New Hampshire, it's going to be a blow up for Trump and onto the general.

KEILAR: And one of Haley's biggest donors here who's the billionaire Ken Langone is putting a lot on New Hampshire, of course, right, as well as the Nikki Haley telling "The Financial Times" who's ready to give Haley a nice sum of money but he may wait until after the results are in saying, quote, if she doesn't get traction in New Hampshire, you don't throw money down a rat hole. Kristian, how do you think Haley is going to do Tuesday in New Hampshire and how significant is that when you have a big donor saying something like this, that's the end of it.

[13:20:26] RAMOS: I don't think I've ever heard that statement before throwing money down the rat hole. But I mean, that's perfectly encapsulates what Haley has to do. She has to win otherwise, yes, everybody's throwing their money away. And then it's Donald Trump's election. I think at this point, you know, if I was Nikki Haley and her campaign, I would have gone after Donald Trump a lot harder than she has been given what's at stake in New Hampshire for her.

SANCHEZ: We actually have a mashup of Haley going after Donald Trump. We want to play that for you now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HALEY: But right now, do we really want to have two 80-year olds running for president when we've got a country in disarray and a world on fire? The name calling, I know, President Trump well, that's what he does when he feels threatened. That's what he does when he feels insecure. Chaos follows him. And everybody knows I'm right. The reason he's throwing these temper tantrums is because he knows I do have a chance. The reason he's doing this is because he knows he's not able to defend his record.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: That was at CNN's Town Hall last night with Jake Tapper in New Hampshire. Congressman, do you think that her attacks were too delayed that she waited too long to go after Donald Trump this way when she should have been doing this months ago?

ROONEY: Well, I was hoping she take the gloves off with Trump. I really do. I mean, you know, like those quotes you just played, the truth has never been a problem for Trump. He just ignores it and goes about his business. And he needs to be held accountable for what he says. And I don't think I've ever seen a candidate get away with saying more ridiculous things than Donald Trump.

KEILAR: And I want to listen to something that Trump also said to get your perspective on this. Of course, you know that Trump has been misusing Haley's birth name. He had another post this morning. But now Trump is saying that Haley is not competent for the job that she can't handle it. This is what he said.

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DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (R) AND CURRENT U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (R): I know Nikki very well. She worked for me for a long time. She would not be able to handle that position. She would not be able to handle the onslaught. With all of that being said, within the Republican Party, I want to bring unity. And within the nation, I want to bring unity. And, you know, unity is going to come from success.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: But Congressman, he hired her and for no small job, right, similar to Elaine Chao, who he also picked for a key position and then later attacked with racial slurs. Do these attacks work in your opinion?

ROONEY: I don't think they work. I don't think they should work because they're vague, unsubstantiable and typical allegations by Trump that don't have any basis and fact. She's got a great record. She's done a lot of great things. She was a fantastic conservative governor in South Carolina, despite Trump's effort to make her sound like she wasn't.

And, you know, another thing Haley said, if I might, that I think was really good as we got two 80 year olds running for President. We're like the Soviet Politburo. You know, Kennedy and Obama were 42 and 43. And we've had 23 presidents of age less than 54 in this United States. We need a new generation of leaders.

SANCHEZ: Congressman, I'm wondering, have you had conversations with any of your former colleagues that are still on the Hill about their support for former President Trump? Have they shared with you any insight as to why they're continuing to back him?

ROONEY: Well, I have. In fact, I've got a little bit of a principle that I don't give money to election deniers. And I have a lot of people asking me for money as Ken Langone and Ken Griffith and stuff like that. And I tell them, look, you denied the election. You signed a petition to void the election. I'm not into that stuff that hasn't been good for our country.

Now, the people that are aligning with Trump, what will they tell you? Oh, he's strong. He was a great president. He kept us out of wars. He straightened out the economy and China. Well, but under the table is, I want an easy reelection. So I'm going to jump in there with Trump.

KEILAR: No, we see that a lot. That's the political calculus that is made. I wonder if you think that some of these attacks that Trump has been making on Nikki Haley, whether it's competence, which might -- there might be some sexism in there, and certainly there's the, you know, using her name as a way to highlight her ethnicity and in a way. I mean we know what he's doing. Is it working do you think?

RAMOS: In the primary, probably. But you know what, as we're moving into the general election, look, this stuff is toxic. I can't overstate this. The MAGA brand of casual racism and sexism does not sit well with the majority of Americans, certainly in the Republican primary. Yes, it's a great sell for Donald Trump sadly. For the rest of the country, they see this stuff and they think this is not for me. This is a president who, again, attacked our capitol to try to overturn a fair election.

[13:25:09]

He wins primaries. He goes to court, right? The last one he went to they found him guilty of sexual assault. This guy is toxic. These politics are toxic. I wish the Republican primary would go on longer.

SANCHEZ: Just a quick note, he was found liable for sexual assault, not exactly guilty, meaning he's not going to face any kind of criminal penalties for that. Nevertheless, Kristian Ramos, former Congressman Francis Rooney, we appreciate the time. Thank you both so much.

ROONEY: Thanks for having me on.

SANCHEZ: Of course.

Still ahead on CNN NEWS CENTRAL, a member of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's government is calling for new elections. Wait until you hear why.

Also Scott Peterson, that Scott Peterson is getting new legal help. He's fighting his conviction for murdering his wife and unborn child. So why did the Innocence Project now decide to take on his case? We'll explain.

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