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E. Jean Carroll Trial Delayed; Boeing Investigation Continues; Russian Military Plane Crashes Near Ukraine Border; Trump Close to Cementing GOP Nomination?. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired January 24, 2024 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:01]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: And new this morning, the Georgia Republican Party chair and the RNC delegates from there, they are calling for Haley to drop out. The question there is, will other party officials from around the country join this call?

CNN's Dianne Gallagher is in Summerville, South Carolina. That is where Nikki Haley is scheduled to speak tonight.

Give us a sense of the scene, if this looks like it's all going to happen, what you're hearing on the ground there, Dianne.

DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, John, Nikki Haley will speak not too far from here in Summerville. She will be in North Charleston tonight, oh, just down the road.

And I have been talking to voters at a coffee shop here today about their former governor. Of course, Nikki Haley twice elected governor here in the state of South Carolina. But in speaking with Republicans here, they tell me firmly that they believe that this is still Trump country.

Still, last night, after coming in second in New Hampshire, Haley said that she was heading back to her sweet state of South Carolina, where voters were not interested in a coronation. And, instead, she says they want an election, and her campaign plans to give it to them.

You mentioned those commercials, the Haley campaign up with ads today in South Carolina highlighting her record as governor here, but also a refrain that we have heard frequently from Nikki Haley on the campaign trail that no one really wants a rematch of Joe Biden and Donald Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NARRATOR: Biden, too old, Trump, too much chaos, a rematch no one wants. There's a better choice for a better America. Her story started right here, America's youngest governor, a conservative Republican, and, boy, did she deliver.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GALLAGHER: Now, I anticipate you will hear much of that tonight at her rally in North Charleston.

But, look, John, in talking to voters here in Summerville today, all of them who intend to vote in that primary one month from today, they tell me that, while they supported her as governor, they, for the most part, are on, in their words, the Trump train.

And they say that there is really not much that can deter them from that. Now, I did speak with some Haley supporters, but, unlike what we may have seen with voters in New Hampshire, so far, I haven't heard anybody say that they are -- quote -- "never Trump," that if Trump is the nominee, they do plan to vote for him.

And several of them tell me what gave them that confidence to cast that ballot if, in fact, Nikki Haley is not the nominee, is their South Carolina Senator, Tim Scott, endorsing Donald Trump and the hope that Scott may have some role in a potential Trump Cabinet if he is elected president again. Tim Scott previewing what they believe their South Carolina strategy will be earlier today.

BERMAN: Dianne, the Republican campaigns that I have covered, George W. Bush, John McCain and Mitt Romney, after New Hampshire, South Carolina, it's like they shoot out of a rocket ship.

They wake up in South Carolina. South Carolina is happening the minute New Hampshire is over. I'm curious. Nikki Haley doesn't speak until tonight. I don't know when Donald Trump is next there. Does it feel like there's a campaign frenzy in South Carolina this morning?

GALLAGHER: To be very honest, no, it does not at this point.

Now, part of that may be because we are looking at a primary that is still one month away, but some of it may also be because, look, Nikki Haley finished third in Iowa. She finished second in New Hampshire, and it wasn't necessarily as close as perhaps some of the polls were predicting.

And that is something that voters did talk to me about this morning, saying that they are afraid that this is just perhaps prolonging the inevitable. I had several Haley fans tell me they were concerned about what staying in the race might mean for her political future if in fact it is a Trump landslide one month from.

Now, look, many of them telling me they hope that's not the case. They do still plan to vote for their former governor. But I talked to the chair of the Dorchester County Republican Party this morning, and while he can't tell me who he's voting for because he wants to remain neutral, he did tell me that it does look increasingly like the writing is on the wall, even here in South Carolina, despite her history in this state.

BERMAN: All right, Dianne Gallagher in South Carolina, thank you so much.

As I said, New Hampshire was so yesterday, but, this morning, I kind of want to frame the questions that we have coming out of New Hampshire. You want to win any race you enter. Donald Trump won, and won big. And that margin, that number, 54 percent, is the highest number for any nonincumbent in a Republican primary.

But one big question is, is Donald Trump really a nonincumbent? I'm not suggesting he's president. He's not. But he was recently and has a grip on the party much like an incumbent. And if you judge him through that prism a little bit more like an incumbent, this margin looks a little bit different.

Look at incumbent President George H.W. Bush in 1992 against Pat Buchanan. Boy, these numbers seem a lot like these numbers. And this result right here was seen as awful for Bush in '92. And it wounded him going forward into the general election. So just think about that.

[11:05:04]

In a general election, there are more than just conservative Republican voters. There are moderate voters. Donald Trump, again, he won in New Hampshire. He did badly with moderates. He lost by more than 50 points among moderates there. Also, independents, those are the undeclared voters that we have been talking about in New Hampshire, he also lost badly there by about 30 points.

Now, he did win with Republicans, registered Republicans, absolutely did very, very well. And that's a problem from Nikki Haley today in South Carolina and every day if she stays in this race. You can't win a Republican nomination by losing by 50 points among Republican voters.

I want to show you one number, though, that absolutely does weigh on the Trump campaign and may be an issue in the general election. If Trump is the nominee -- this was among New Hampshire primary voters -- if Trump is the nominee, nearly 20 percent of Republican primary voters said they would not support him; 66 percent of independents said they would not support him.

That is a huge issue for that campaign going forward.

I want to bring in Patrick Griffin, a campaign strategist and media consultant.

Let me pull one thing up here, Patrick, so people can see what we're looking at right now as well. Let me give myself a drawing tool here. This is the rest of the month in January, a lot of empty days there. And these are all the days before the South Carolina primary. Yes, there's a Nevada contest in the U.S. Virgin Islands, Nikki Haley not competing in Nevada.

What happens in all these days if Nikki Haley stays in the race?

PATRICK GRIFFIN, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, look, John, this is going to be a long time, and that's a good point.

Nevada is clearly going to be Donald Trump. He owns that party mechanism. That's a primary, as you know, as well. It's sort of a two- sided thing. He will win that very, very easily. The question is, what happens to money? That's my question. It looks like AFP and the Koch-backed PAC that has funded Nikki Haley

so far stays in. She's got money. She's got a fair amount of cash on hand. They have started the campaign in South Carolina. I think that's where they stay. They may be raising money in other places, but there's a lot of time between now and the end of the time in South Carolina.

And that's one of the reasons, John, we saw such an apoplectic Donald Trump last night. He wants this thing done and over. And as long as she's in, she's in. So there's a lot of mischief that can be made, particularly given those numbers you just pointed out at the beginning of the piece.

BERMAN: Yes, talk to me more about that because it's the flip side of the coin here.

Nikki Haley stays in, and even if you don't think she has a chance -- put that off to the side for a second. But if she stays in until South Carolina or maybe even beyond, what does that mean for Donald Trump? What does that mean for the general election?

GRIFFIN: Well, the problem here, John, is that 43 percent of the people who came out and pulled a Republican ballot yesterday voted against Donald Trump.

The question is, in a general election after these primaries, does Donald Trump's floor become his ceiling? How do you expand voters in even a race against somebody as inept as Joe Biden, at least from the Republican standpoint?

The fact of the matter is, these races are about addition and multiplication, not subtraction and division. I don't know that Donald Trump can allow himself to be successful in this race without drawing in more independent voters. You and I both know a handful of swing states, very similar to New Hampshire, as a matter of fact, in their behavior are going to decide this race.

And without those independents, this is looking like a very close, nail-biting contest. Nikki Haley will continue to say, I think, this is not so close a race. It's a stronger annuity for Republicans if I'm the nominee than he is.

But this remains to be one of those races we have seen before, high drama probably right to the end. I don't know how many Republicans can take that heartburn again.

BERMAN: Again, I just put the independent numbers up here so people can see what they were in New Hampshire. They're called undeclared voters there who can vote in either the Republican or Democratic primary. Nikki Haley won by 30 points.

New Hampshire independents may be different than independents around the country, but you get the idea. I mean, Donald Trump is not winning among independent voters in Republican primaries right now, at least not based on what we saw in New Hampshire. How do you think independents view Donald Trump's behavior on stage

last night? There's reporting that Nikki Haley intentionally poked the bear, intentionally tried to provoke him to mouth off, which he did on that stage. How will that be perceived, again, maybe not in a Republican primary contest, but for voters who will vote in the general election?

[11:10:00]

GRIFFIN: Yes, so that's the question.

Again, Donald Trump listens to Donald Trump. The difference in this campaign here in New Hampshire, I think, and Iowa is, they have run a real campaign, John. This has been highly organized, highly choreographed, very, very smart politics.

I'm not sure they're going for those voters yet. I think they feel, in a binary choice between Trump and Biden, they can make that choice and that Trump is more tolerable than an inept Biden. But you make a very good point. Nikki Haley did purposely, I think, poke the bear last night, and, boy, did she poke him.

Some of that stuff is not what I would be doing at this point. If you think she's going to be out at some point, why not sort of extend the hand a little bit? It looks like Donald Trump is on his way to this nomination, but it doesn't make sense, even if he gets poked, to poke her back, because he's going to need those voters and he's ultimately going to need Nikki Haley.

BERMAN: Boy, we will wait and see what she says on that stage tonight if she goes on with the South Carolina event, or if she speaks before that. We will also wait to see the next thing out of Donald Trump's mouth.

Patrick, just while I have you, one of the obsessions I have here and one of the questions that's been asked so many times, how should Donald Trump be judged? Is he judged as any other normal first-time Republican presidential candidate or as a quasi-incumbent? I know he's not president, but he was recently.

This is the comparison to George H.W. Bush in '92. What do you think about that?

GRIFFIN: So, if Trump wasn't the incumbent before Iowa and New Hampshire, he sure is now. Trump owns the party. It's his party mechanism. He's won two contests.

But remember, John, the interesting thing about Donald Trump is, he's both the incumbent and the protest candidate. Very few times have we seen that in American politics. He's got an interesting dichotomy going on, but he is the incumbent more than anything else, and he's going to have to bring the party together and bring some independent voters to the Republican side if he wants to win this general election, even against Joe Biden.

BERMAN: We have got our bookers trying to line up Grover Cleveland, perhaps the only man who's been through anything like this before.

(LAUGHTER)

BERMAN: We will let you know how that goes.

Patrick Griffin, thank you so much for being with us.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN HOST: Wait. That was really interesting, the protest -- the incumbent and the protest candidate all in one. So throw it all out.

BERMAN: Yes. No, it's true. It's really interesting. He's trying to figure out exactly what he represents right now and how he should be judged.

BOLDUAN: But do not poke the bear.

BERMAN: Do not poke the bear. I learned that with you.

(LAUGHTER)

BOLDUAN: Moving on, the CEO of Boeing doing damage control on Capitol Hill after that terrifying Alaska Airlines incident, and the -- and that airline's CEO making a new, startling statement about more troubling findings on -- quote, unquote -- "many" of the same Boeing planes.

New video also we have showing a moment a Russian military plane crashes and goes up into a ball of flames. You will see it right there. But who or what may have been on board? A lot of conflicting information coming in.

And back in South Carolina, how conservatives are hoping to use menthol cigarettes now to go after Joe Biden.

We will be back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:17:48]

BOLDUAN: "All those on board died." That is a statement this morning from a Russian governor about a Russian military plane that crashed near the Ukrainian border and burst into flames.

Now, Russia says dozens of Ukrainian prisoners of war were on board being flown to a prisoner swap. But Ukraine says that Russian air defense missiles were actually on the plane. CNN has not independently verified these conflicting claims.

Let's get over to CNN's Matthew Chance. He has more on this.

Matthew, what are you learning?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kate, it is going to be very difficult in this sort of, like, very closely controlled war zone while there is an information war under way as well between Russia and Ukraine to actually sort of get some really firm facts on what exactly happened and indeed what was even on board that plane.

The Ukrainians are saying at this stage that they believe, from their intelligence, that this was an Ilyushin-76 aircraft that was carrying missiles for Russia's S-300 anti-aircraft system. If that's the case, it would obviously have been a very high-profile target for Ukrainian air defenses to try and take out.

And, recently, there have been lots of incidents or several incidents where Ukrainian forces have pushed forward close to the board with Russia to try and deny Russian aircraft the kind of freedom in their own airspace that they have enjoyed up until now. So that's been a quite successful strategy. There was a takedown of a Russian plane just a couple of weeks ago which had a big impact inside Russia on their ability to control the battlefield.

But, of course, the other version of events is the one that the Russians are talking about, which is in fact this plane was carrying 65 Ukrainian prisoners of war on the way to a prisoner exchange. They were on their way back home and they were taken out by two Ukrainian missiles before they landed in that city of Belgorod, or close to it anyway.

Now, if so, that would obviously be a tragic miscalculation on the part of the Ukrainians. But, again, at the moment we don't know which version of events is true.

BOLDUAN: Yes, it seems very difficult for both of them obviously to be true at the very same time. You're working through it, though.

[11:20:04]

It's great to see you, Matthew. Thank you so much -- John.

BERMAN: All right, today, Boeing's CEO is meeting with lawmakers as the CEOs of several airlines say they're disappointed in angry with the aircraft maker.

Of course, that door plug blew off an Alaska Airlines Boeing 737 MAX 9 jet in mid-flight just a few weeks ago. This is what the Alaska Airlines CEO said:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BEN MINICUCCI, CEO, ALASKA AIRLINES: We found some loose bolts on many of our MAX lines. So those...

QUESTION: Many?

MINICUCCI: Yes. So, those are things that are going to be rectified through the inspection process.

Boeing is better than this. And flight 1282 should never have happened. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: All right, aviation correspondent Pete Muntean is with us.

And, Pete, you have got this first interview with the head of the FAA since this whole Alaska Airlines incident. What did you learn?

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's right.

And we just heard from the CEO of Boeing, Dave Calhoun, who's on Capitol Hill meeting with lawmakers right now, and he said he will not support flying the grounded Boeing 737 MAX 9 until it's deemed that those planes are 100 percent safe.

The comments from Alaska's CEO are just further confirmation of possible quality control issues at Boeing when it comes to the MAX 9. And the head of the FAA just told me that quality control is where that investigation is now focused.

Remember, the FAA grounded the MAX 9 in the U.S. as it figures out exactly how airlines should inspect these plans for problems. FAA Administrator Mike Whitaker told me in this one-on-one interview that the MAX 9 door plug is a good design, but only when it's properly executed. That's the big caveat.

The bolts that hold the door plug on the plane are key. There are four of them. And if they are not installed, then the door can essentially shimmy out of its retaining grooves and shoot off with explosive force like we saw back on January 5 on Alaska 1282.

Here is the sound bite from the FAA administrator saying that quality control is now the focus of the investigation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL WHITAKER, ADMINISTRATOR, FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION: We know this particular design has been in many other aircraft that are not the MAX that have millions of hours of operation. So there's a fair amount of comfort around the design and everything that we're seeing is confirming that.

So it really takes us to production, manufacturing, maintenance, those types of issues in ensuring that the pieces are where they need to be and all the bolts are in place.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MUNTEAN: The FAA now also has inspectors on site at the Boeing plant in Renton, Washington.

The goal, the FAA administrator says, is to increase the scrutiny on production problems and where they might be occurring. The FAA now also has a sampling of data from about a quarter of the MAX 9's in the U.S. and it's looking at those measurements until it issues any order to un-ground those plans -- John.

BERMAN: All right, Pete Muntean, thank you very much. Great to have you get that interview. Thank you.

So, what's going on in one of the trials against Donald Trump here in New York, or not going on today, I should say?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:28:47]

BERMAN: All right, no trial proceedings today in the damages part of E. Jean Carroll's civil defamation trial against Donald Trump. The trial is scheduled to pick up again tomorrow morning.

Judge Lewis Kaplan adjourned trial Monday after sending a sick juror home. But it is not clear if that is the same reason for today's delay.

Well, this now CNN chief legal affairs correspondent Paula Reid and CNN senior legal analyst Elie Honig.

What's happening here, Paula? And is the trial going to start again tomorrow?

PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: It's unclear.

So far, we're getting these day-by-day extensions, right? We went into court on Monday. There was a sick juror. So they had to adjourn court for the day. And it was expected that they would come back on Tuesday. Trump's lawyer, though, Alina Habba, asked for an adjournment on Tuesday as well, because Trump was going to be in New Hampshire.

Now, it's clear the judge was not terribly happy about this request, but he said to her, sort of cryptically, you may get your wish based on sort of the larger circumstances. We have not been told specifically why they continue to extend this. All we know is, there was a sick juror. And so far, we have had two different extensions of this adjournment.

And it's unclear if we will be back in court tomorrow or if they will extend this pause another day.

BERMAN: Elie Honig, a sick juror. It could be the stifles. It could be the flu. It could be COVID, something that clears up quickly.

What if it doesn't?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Yes. So you have two options here, if there's an issue with health with a juror. One, you can wait it out. Now, of course, that depends on what the diagnosis is. If it's COVID, you're talking, I thin, I'm not an expert, but I think at least a week or so.

Or in a case like this, you can drop the juror. They have -- this is a civil case. They have nine jurors here. You just need six in order to proceed. So, at a certain point, I think the judge will come back, if it's a serious illness or something that's going to sidetrack this for weeks, and say, OK, we have dropped that juror, and now we're going to proceed with eight or seven.

BERMAN: Is that something that one side can object to?

REID: Well, I want to note that, on Monday, the judge gave both sides of the option. He said, look, we can continue. We're just down one juror. We still have eight. Do you want to keep going?

E. Jean Carroll's lawyer said, OK, but Alina Habba, Trump's lawyer, objected to that. Then what was amazing is that the spin sort of in pro-Trump circles was that somehow the Biden administration was forcing Trump back into court on Tuesday, when, again, he could have continued with the case and really probably gotten through a significant amount of the work that they still have.