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Russian Military Plane Crashes Near Ukraine Border; Gaza Shelter Hit; Nikki Haley Continues Campaign. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired January 24, 2024 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:01:20]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Is it over or getting started? Donald Trump insists his win in New Hampshire last night means he is the Republican nominee for president, but Nikki Haley claims the primary race is just warming up. She is refusing to end her campaign and spending big to stay in the race.

Also, a dispute about a plane crash, 74 people reportedly killed, according to the Kremlin, when a military plane crashes near the Ukrainian border. But there's no agreement between Kyiv and Moscow over who or what was actually on board.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: And the trial of the mother of the Michigan school shooter who was convicted beginning in Michigan. She wants her son to testify. We're going to speak with the sheriff of Oakland County about her case.

We're following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

SANCHEZ: After his unprecedented back-to-back wins in Iowa and New Hampshire, Donald Trump is intensifying his attacks against Republican rival Nikki Haley, as she is vowing to keep this primary fight going. The next big contest is exactly one month from today in South Carolina. And Haley is going to be there tonight for a rally.

But some of her home state's most prominent Republicans are backing the former president, including Tim Scott, the senator who owes his job to Haley. Remember, she appointed him to the Senate. Also, this hour, we're going to hear some reaction from President Biden. He's expected to play up the contrast with Trump when he addresses the United Auto Workers union, clearly eying an election rematch.

In fact, his campaign is now banking on it, selling these new T-shirts that read -- quote -- "Together, we will defeat Trump again."

Let's get the latest now from CNN's Jeff Zeleny, whose live for us in New Hampshire.

Jeff, what does the path look like at this point for Nikki Haley?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Boris, it's a narrow path and a precarious one, but it is on her home turf. So Nikki Haley is back in South Carolina, not to lick her wounds, but

to fight on to that primary, which is one month from today. If we say a day is a lifetime in politics, think how long a month will be if there's an epic fight between her and former President Donald Trump.

But we are told that she is speaking to her supporters, longtime allies, friends and donors. And, as of now, she is staying in this race. She's scheduled to have a rally tonight in North Charleston. She's put out a campaign schedule for the next several days. She's on the air with the television ads in South Carolina.

All signs point to the fact that she is going to continue, allowing other Republican voters to have their say in this primary. Of course, that's usually how it goes. Usually, people who have lost a couple states do not telegraph that they're getting out. They reassess their decision as it becomes clear.

But she has many reasons to stay in this race, largely because she improved her performance here in New Hampshire. Yes, the electorate is much different here in New Hampshire. Many more independents voted. But, certainly, Republicans voted as well to give a voice to a Trump alternative.

The question, of course, is in her home state of South Carolina, which has changed dramatically since she became -- since she was governor there, it's much more Trumpy, quite frankly. Do they want her candidacy continue? She will find that out as she campaigns there beginning tonight.

SANCHEZ: Jeff Zeleny, thank you so much for the update.

We want to go now to CNN's Kristen Holmes, who's been tracking the Trump campaign for us.

Kristen, Trump apparently not happy just with the victory. He wanted to see Nikki Haley drop out. And sources are telling you that he's not thrilled about it.

[13:05:05]

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Boris, I think he made that very clear in his speech last night.

If you look back to Iowa when he won by that 30-point, historic margin, he talked about unifying the party, unifying the country. There was absolutely none of that in the speech last night. It was all about Nikki Haley. He criticized her on every level, including what she was wearing.

We're told by sources that he was annoyed, he was angry that she decided to stay in the race, and he didn't like the tone of the speech that he gave -- she gave, at one point actually calling her an impostor.

And you mentioned that endorsement from South Carolina Senator Tim Scott. There was also an awkward moment during the speech where Trump essentially brought up that Tim Scott should have liked Nikki Haley or should have endorsed Nikki Haley and said, "You must really hate her for endorsing me."

And Scott walked up to the mic and said, "No, I just love you." I mean, anyone who follows Tim Scott in his political career knows that's not his brand of politics, so putting him on the spot there.

But that really is part of their effort in South Carolina. We have seen what they are doing, their strategy there, and it's essentially to embarrass her in her home state. As Jeff said, the electorate has changed there. It is more pro-Trump. Or at least that's what his advisers believe. So they're touting around all of these endorsements from South Carolina officials that have endorsed Donald Trump saying, look, this state, her home state, they actually support us over Nikki Haley.

SANCHEZ: Kristen, on the question of those endorsements, we actually just heard from one senator who's not going to be backing Trump.

HOLMES: That's right, Boris. So we're at a time now when Republicans are really closing rank. We have seen people who, like Ron DeSantis, were attacked viciously by the former president still come out and back him.

But Susan Collins of Maine, the senator, says that she's not likely to endorse Donald Trump, no, at any point in the future. And, actually, she added that she was happy Nikki Haley was staying in the race, saying that: "I think that, the more people see of her, the" -- "see of her" -- excuse me -- that she -- "the more that" -- sorry -- there's a whole long thing in the middle here, since it appears to be the only alternative to Donald Trump right now -- "the more impressed those people will be."

It's not that surprising. Yes, she is a Republican Senator, but she also voted to impeach him in January of 2021 over the January 6 insurrection, not a big fan there, but it is interesting, given what we are seeing on Capitol Hill, which is a closing of ranks, a circling of the wagon as Donald Trump inches towards the nomination.

SANCHEZ: Yes, quite a statement there from Susan Collins.

Kristen Holmes, thank you so much -- Brianna.

KEILAR: All right, let's bring in a pair of our CNN political commentators now.

We have S.E. Cupp and Maria Cardona with us.

S.E., of course, New Hampshire was tailor-made for the type of voter that Nikki Haley was courting here. So if she can't beat Trump or at least get darned close to doing that, what makes her campaign think that she can really give him a run for his money here?

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think every opportunity she has to pierce that inevitability is good for her and leads to some momentum. And you have to look at the people who are saying this primary is

over, Donald Trump and Joe Biden, are saying that because it benefits Donald Trump and Joe Biden, right? Joe Biden wants it to be over because he wants to face Trump. Nikki -- Nikki Haley would be a much tougher opponent for Joe Biden. And Trump wants the coronation.

So I think we need to be careful with our framing here and remember that 49 percent of people in Iowa chose someone other than Trump; 40 percent-plus of people in New Hampshire chose someone other than Trump. This party is not coalesced around him. It is divided.

There's no real other way to see it. Now, the map gets tougher for Nikki Haley. She knows that, but she's going to fight, because 40 percent is not an insignificant number. And I think her performance and her going out on the trail and doing media is giving permission for other independents, moderates and maybe even Republicans to say, yes, I would like someone else.

And guess what? Someone else is running.

KEILAR: What do you say to that, Maria, that both sides just want her out of the way?

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look, I think that Nikki Haley is in an incredibly tough position. There's no question about that, right? There's almost no path moving forward.

But then that also frees her up because she has nothing to lose. And what I would say is, at this point, the independents, the Republican- leaning moderates absolutely want some place to go. They have no place to go right now. Nikki Haley was it. And we saw it in the numbers in New Hampshire.

And that I think is going to be a huge vulnerability for Donald Trump going into the general election. But I was -- been talking to some Republican strategists, and here's the argument that they're making, which Nikki Haley is not really making it yet, but I wonder if that's in the back of her mind. And if it is, she should start going for the jugular now.

[13:10:00]

What if between now and a couple of months, Super Tuesday, additional states, even through the convention or before the convention, what if Donald Trump gets indicted and convicted? What if he gets convicted? We have already seen numbers from polls, our own polls, that say people would not want to support him.

She would be the last person standing if that happens.

KEILAR: Maria, what does it say that so many independents did turn out? Yes, Nikki Haley didn't win and she lost by double digits, but there was a big independent turnout that we shouldn't lose sight of.

CARDONA: Absolutely. And I think what that tells you is that there is a big swathe within the Republican Party that does want to turn the page. They are desperate to have a choice between Donald Trump, the crazy, the chaos, the criminality, and somebody who would bring a little bit more of a presidential temperament, but perhaps are more conservative.

Nikki Haley was their person, but I think they have also come to realize, to their chagrin, that, right now, the Republican Party is not built for somebody like Nikki Haley, is not built for somebody who's moderate. That's what Donald Trump is counting on. That is what he is focusing on. That is why he is going full force, full MAGA.

The speech that he gave last night in New Hampshire was horrific, but that tells you just how -- not only what kind of candidate he will be in the general election, but what kind of president if, God forbid -- and hopefully the voters will forbid as well -- he gets into the Oval Office again.

KEILAR: S.E., what do you think the independent turnout tells us about how a general election could look beyond New Hampshire?

CUPP: I think Trump's really weak.

Ceding 40-plus percent to another Republican opponent, where, yes, it's independents and moderates, but not in Iowa. I mean, those were other Republicans voting for someone else. So I don't think he's in a very safe and strong position going into an election against Joe Biden.

Joe Biden knows that. And that's why I think he really wants Trump on the top of the ticket. But I think Maria just made a really, really good point about Nikki wanting to be the last man standing in case, right? And I actually asked the campaign this yesterday or the day before, like, is it part of the strategy to just be the last one around in case Trump goes to prison?

They didn't really want to answer that question directly. So I have no response to report there. But I think that is tacitly part of this, too, because anything, literally anything, could happen between now and Super Tuesday, now and the conventions.

And I think that the Haley team is very aware of that.

KEILAR: S.E., what did you think about the Tim Scott moment on the stage with Trump?

CUPP: I mean, I have called this the great emasculation of the Republican Party. Trump has completely emasculated these guys, to the point where it's not just enough to show up. You have got to show up and literally bend over, kiss the ring, whatever you have got to do.

Tim Scott saying, "I just love you, man," I mean, it's so pathetic and so weak. But Trump loves this. He lives off humiliating his one-time opponents or critics, even his fans. I mean, he loves the humiliation. And these guys are happy to perform for him. They are happy to humiliate themselves for him. KEILAR: I mean, Tim Scott, he looks like he's been a good sport about

it, Maria. He's laughing.

But I just can't imagine that is enjoyable for anyone.

CARDONA: I don't know how he sleeps at night. I don't know how he faces his friends and family.

It is so not just emasculating, but embarrassing, undignified. I don't know how he faces any kind of political future.

KEILAR: Can I ask you a question? What if, though, he's trying to hold a place to maybe be in a Trump administration and he feels like he's a grownup in the room? What do you say to that?

CARDONA: I say that that has been tried before.

KEILAR: It does feel like a deja vu question, doesn't it?

CARDONA: It's been tried before, and we have all seen how that has failed.

KEILAR: Maria, thank you so much. S.E., thank you to you as well. Really appreciate it.

And still ahead: a United Nations relief agency reporting mass casualties after a shelter in Gaza housing thousands of displaced people was hit.

Plus, an investigation under way after a fiery plane crash in Russia. There are conflicting reports about who or what was on board.

And President Biden speaking here in just a few minutes at a United Auto Workers conference, the union expected to endorse him for reelection. We're going to bring you his remarks live ahead.

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[13:19:00]

KEILAR: Trapped and completely surrounded, that is how a U.N. official is describing the dire situation that thousands of displaced Palestinians taking shelter in Southern Gaza are facing.

Intense fighting has consumed the city of Khan Yunis. A U.N. relief agency there says one of its buildings has been hit and that it has resulted in mass casualties.

We have CNN's Nic Robertson in Tel Aviv following the latest here.

So, Nic, the IDF says it plans to continue fighting there in Khan Yunis for several days as it's targeting Hamas militants. But then we're hearing these reports that, of course, a lot of civilians are paying the price. What are you seeing and hearing?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, the IDF says that they have intensified the operations in this area. They have surrounded Khan Yunis, the city where this is happening, that they are targeting those terror cells, and they have been getting ahold of weapons caches, RPGs, rocket-propelled grenades, automatic weapons, these sorts of things.

[13:20:01]

But inside of all of that, an estimated 150,000 population, according to the UNRWA director, the U.N. official, in that area of Khan Yunis. And he says it's one of their shelters for displaced people, a training center he said that houses about 40,000 people, a huge number of people in this training facility.

And it was the carpentry workshop there where -- he said that was hit today by two tank rounds fired by IDF, Israeli Defense Force tanks. And he described about 800 people being inside that building when it was hit. He said nine people were killed, 75 wounded. An eyewitness said that the facility was surrounded by tanks that he -- the eyewitness said they he had seen people with shrapnel injuries.

But what makes this situation more complicated and complex, according to the U.N. director in that area, is that they can't get their own U.N. teams in there, he says, because the agreed routes that they have with the IDF have sand blocks across them. He said they can't get to the hospitals in that area they need to, because the intensity of the fighting around those hospitals in that same area is too fierce, and not safe for people to get out.

The IDF has told people in that area of Khan Yunis to get out and move west, go to a safer area. But according to the U.N. director again, when people tried to do that yesterday, he said they were unable to do it because the road was blocked by two tanks.

So this is the scenario in this part of Khan Yunis where the fighting is intense, and a significant number of people are not able, it appears to get out of harm's way. And some of them, we understand from the U.N., have been killed.

KEILAR: Yes. And so many others trapped and in danger there.

Nic, thank you for the latest reporting. We do appreciate it -- Boris.

SANCHEZ: Keeping our focus overseas, the Kremlin is accusing Ukraine of killing dozens of its own service members after a Russian military transport plane crashed.

Now, this video posted to social media shows the aircraft over Russia's Belgorod region doing a nosedive before crashing and bursting into flames. There is a dispute now over who or what was on board. Russian officials are claiming the aircraft was carrying 65 Ukrainian POWs ahead of a prisoner swap.

But Ukraine's military says the plane was carrying air defense missiles. The Kremlin has declared the crash a terrorist act, while Kyiv has not yet acknowledged that its forces fired on that plane.

We want to go now to Eastern Ukraine with CNN's Fred Pleitgen, who's there for us.

So, Fred, we're hearing conflicting reports here. What do we know about what was actually on board?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it's a really complicated situation.

And the Russians certainly have come out, Boris, and blamed this on the Ukrainians. And the Russian Defense Ministry said earlier that they say that it was a Ukrainian surface-to-air missile that was fired from Ukrainian territory that took this plane down. We obviously saw that video of the plane then later crashing.

And Russia's foreign minister, Sergey Lavrov, he came out today at the U.N., and he absolutely blasted the Ukrainians. Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SERGEY LAVROV, RUSSIAN FOREIGN MINISTER (through translator): The Ukrainian prisoners of war were transported to the Belgorod region in order to conduct yet another swap which was agreed between Moscow and Kyiv. Instead of this, the Ukrainian side launched an air defense missile from the Kharkiv region.

It targeted the airplane and was a fatal strike.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PLEITGEN: Now, the Ukrainians, for their part, Boris, are being quite vague about, first of all, whether or not they know who -- that the prisoners of war may have been on this plane or whether it was indeed those missiles and also whether or not they shot the plane down.

The Ukrainians are saying that, in many cases, planes like that one, the Il-76 transport plane, are used to transport missiles to that place, Belgorod, in Russia and that the Russians then use those missiles to target Ukrainian territory.

Now the Ukrainians also say that a prisoner exchange was indeed supposed to happen today, but that the Russians did not inform them whether or not they were going to take these prisoners to that area by plane.

I want to read you some -- a statement from the Ukrainian general staff, what they said. They said: "The armed forces of Ukraine will continue to take measures to destroy delivery means and control the airspace to eliminate the terrorist threat," them obviously meaning the missile threat from Russia, "including on the Belgorod-Kharkiv direction."

So the Ukrainians are saying that any cargo planes carrying missiles could be targeted. They are not saying whether or not they were behind taking this plane down, and they certainly are not saying whether or not they acknowledge that there were possibly Ukrainian POWs on that plane.

A really complicated situation, but certainly also a devastating crash for the Russian air force there just outside of Belgorod, Boris.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

And, Fred, we heard Sergey Lavrov mentioned previous prisoner exchanges. The latest one was in January. It was the largest one to date. Do those usually run smoothly?

[13:25:10]

PLEITGEN: In many cases, they do indeed run smoothly.

But, of course, they take a long time to get set up and are a long time in the making. And there is always political issues as to which prisoners might be exchanged. But we have seen a number of prisoner exchanges over the past almost two years that this war has been going on. They certainly are quite difficult.

They usually or often happen in northern regions of Ukraine on the border there with Russia. It's unclear whether or not in this case this exchange would have gone very smoothly. The Ukrainians, however, do acknowledge that an exchange was supposed to take place, that this exchange was supposed to take place today, and that it was called off last-minute.

So, whether or not that means that there were really prisoners of war on board this plane really unclear, but, certainly, prisoner exchanges are something that we have seen. They're very important, I think, to both sides, but very important, probably more important to the Ukrainians, obviously wanting to get their service members back, Boris.

SANCHEZ: Fred Pleitgen live for us in Eastern Ukraine.

Thanks for the update, Fred.

Still ahead on CNN NEWS CENTRAL: That razor wire that Texas put up along the border with Mexico, that is still up, even though the Supreme Court told the feds that they could start to take it down. We will talk about the Border Patrol chief's decision, telling CNN that that may soon change.

Plus, we're waiting on remarks from President Biden in front of the United Auto Workers union. We're going to bring you parts of his remarks when he comes on stage.

Stay with CNN. We're back in just moments.

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