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Trial For School Shooter's Mother Resumes; Soon: Closing Arguments Begin In Trump Defamation Trial; Alabama Death Row Inmate First To Die By Nitrogen Gas. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired January 26, 2024 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BARAK RAVID, CNN POLITICAL AND GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Dominating the news is a political damage for Biden's presidential campaign.

[09:30:07]

So this is why Biden pressed Netanyahu to scale down military operations in Gaza as soon as possible.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Pressure. Any ultimatums?

RAVID: Well, not an ultimatum. I think this is not -- at least not yet, but I think that, you know, when the president of the United States is telling the Israeli prime minister I'm not in it for a year of war in Gaza, and when he tells him you need to scale back operations, that is at least, in my opinion, the most forward-leaning Biden was until now, in private, with Netanyahu when it comes to the need to expedite the end of the war.

BERMAN: Benjamin Netanyahu in the past -- I mean, he knows American politics. He's played in U.S. electoral politics before, Barak. Any sense of what he might want here in terms of Joe Biden's political success?

RAVID: I -- you know, I think it's too soon. Netanyahu has a lot of baggage with Donald Trump. They're not best friends in the last several years. So I'm not even sure that Netanyahu is rooting for this candidate or another.

But I think, as he told Biden, he told Biden, listen, we thought we would get more done more quickly, and we found out that's not the case. Therefore, we have a lot of work to do in Gaza.

Biden didn't like to hear that, but, you know, that's the case for now, and what we heard from Netanyahu's people today is that they're not going to stop, at least at the moment.

BERMAN: Barak Ravid, always great having you on. Thank you so much.

Kate?

RAVID: Thanks.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Jennifer Crumbley back in court today. She is the first person to face a jury with this question: how much responsibility do parents bear when their child commits a mass shooting. What you could hear from Crumbley herself when she takes the stand.

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[09:36:40]

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right. We have been looking at a Michigan courtroom as day two of the trial for a school shooter's mother is underway. It is unprecedented what is happening. Right now, the prosecution is presenting evidence including messages between Jennifer Crumbley, you see them there, and her husband James.

Now, we could soon hear from Jennifer herself. During opening remarks, her defense attorney said she's going to take the stand in the case against her. Her son killed four students at Oxford High School on November 30th, 2021, and will spend the rest of his life behind bars.

Now, Jennifer Crumbley and her husband James are trying to avoid prison themselves, in separate trials that could test the limits of who can be held responsible for a shooting.

Let's bring in defense attorney Misty Marris, who is with us again this morning.

Happy to see you, Misty.

Let's talk about Jennifer's defense.

MISTY MARRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Good morning, Sara.

SIDNER: Good morning to you.

Jennifer's defense is very much based on the fact that she says she did not buy the gun for Ethan and that she can't be responsible for something she had no idea was going to happen.

Is that -- is that defense going to work for her, do you think? Is that a strong defense?

MARRIS: So the purchase of the gun is very central to Jennifer's defense. In fact, it's one of the reasons why we're seeing the trials be separated, Jennifer is being prosecuted separate from her husband James, and a lot of that relates to the fact that James purchased the gun for Ethan. We saw evidence play out in the courtroom yesterday.

James went to the store with Ethan. They purchased the gun. As the gun owner, he has different responsibilities relating to maintenance, safe keeping, storage, and accessibility to that gun, including it's illegal to purchase a gun on behalf of another person.

So, yes, that is a huge part of Jennifer's defense. However, the prosecutors are making arguments that essentially say, who purchased the gun really isn't the point. They're presenting evidence that shows Jennifer knew that Ethan had access to the gun, who purchased it really doesn't matter.

Some of the evidence we saw yesterday was Jennifer with Ethan at a gun range with that very gun. We saw videos from Ethan's Instagram, which show that he had basically unfettered access to the gun at home. And so what prosecutors are going to say is, really that question of who's the purchaser is ancillary to the issues in this case, which is did Jennifer willfully disregard these warning signs that Ethan posed a threat to others.

SIDNER: Which is the definition of involuntary manslaughter. I do want to ask you about one of the facts in this case, that I simply can't quite get out of my head. Before the public knew who was responsible for the shooting, while it was happening, there was a text that was sent to Ethan from his mom, Jennifer. And the text read, Ethan, don't do it. After we knew that there was a school shooting at the school.

Could this be a really key piece of evidence? It seems like that to me.

MARRIS: Absolutely, Sara.

Such a tragic case, and we saw so much emotion in the courtroom, and that text message is very, very central for a couple of reasons. Jennifer Crumbley's defense is essentially that Ethan was manipulative, that he actually hid and she was unaware of his spiraling -- downward spiral of mental health ultimately leading to the shooting.

[09:40:12]

And it's all about what she knew or should have known which ultimately resulted in the death of these four kids, so tragic.

That text, when that comes, news is breaking there's a shooting at the school, her immediate inclination is Ethan, don't do it. That's going to show that she had some notice -- that she was on notice of these issues and his propensity for violence before this.

You know, there's parents on this jury, Sara, and they're going to be thinking, my gosh, if there's a school shooting at my child's school, I'm going to say saying, are you okay, I'm not going to be saying, don't do it.

So I think these messages are going to be really, really impactful and that one particularly, that's going to stick in the minds of the jury as they deliberate.

SIDNER: Yeah, I mean, this is a tragedy that didn't need to happen. You have now five families, including Ethan's family there whose lives will never be the same. But the teacher there, we're seeing her on the stand yesterday, who was shot, so many people having to go through such tragedy because of one person.

Thank you so much, Misty, for all of this analysis. It is a fascinating case that could be unprecedented. We'll see what happens -- John.

BERMAN: All right. We are standing by, Sara, to see if Donald Trump and his team enter the courtroom here in New York. They appear to be running late. Closing arguments were set to begin moments ago.

Now I am just getting word, Trump and his team have just entered the courtroom in the defamation damages trial against him. It's starting late. We're going to get new reporting about why, next.

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[09:46:12]

BERMAN: All right. Just moments ago, our team saw Donald Trump and his legal counsel entering the courtroom. Closing arguments set to begin any minute in the defamation damages trial against him, and at some point today, the case is expected to be handed over to the jury who will decide how much, if any amount, E. Jean Carroll should be awarded.

With us now is Jeremy Saland, former Manhattan prosecutor.

Counselor, great to see you here. Let's break this down one by one, the prosecution's case in closing argument will be?

JEREMY SALAND, FORMER MANHATTAN PROSECUTOR: So, the prosecutor -- well, the plaintiff's side will say, listen, this is an actual injury, and we had an expert who testified and said there was a $12 million worth of damages for E. Jean Carroll, but it's beyond that. E. Jean Carroll is a victim here. E. Jean Carroll was scared for her life.

When do we know she did, she got ammunition from her father's old firearm. She was so frightened and terrified about what Trump did and said that it upended her life and she had to get security for her home. There's so many things that she did all because of Donald Trump's actions. And you heard from an expert to corroborate that as well as her friends.

BERMAN: Donald Trump's case will be?

SALAND: She didn't suffer injury, she -- almost as if she should be grateful that I raised her profile, and certainly, don't pay attention to the expert, he didn't know what he was talking about. But she was already facing ridicule, not from me as Donald Trump, but because of what she said and what she wrote on her own. So, that's what he's going to come back. You know, there's no damages here.

BERMAN: So, one of the most interesting things today, if not the most interesting to me is what the jury instructions will be. The judge, what the judge says before the jury goes to deliberate. What are the possibilities here?

SALAND: Well, I understand that there was a little bit of a conference, that's the wrong term, there was a conference, a dispute as to what might be said. And for example, the judge was talking about instructing the jury. This was not a rape, but this is a sexual abuse, and there was an issue about what that meant and how far the judge would instruct the jury about that.

Then the judge is going to explain this is not proof beyond a reasonable doubt, it's preponderance of the evidence. So basically that it's just a hair more likely than not. Just a little bit, that's all it takes, more likely than not that the plaintiff has proven their case and that this occurred.

And then you're going to hear about the damages, which would be you have compensatory, and then make you whole or take care of the injury, and then there's a punitive side as well, which is how it impacted her.

BERMAN: How likely is it that the judge will remind the jury about what they can and can't consider about Donald Trump's very brief testimony? Because to the layman, it seems he got everything he wanted. He got to go there on that witness stand and say that he didn't do it.

SALAND: Yeah, and there was -- and there was -- I mean, I think at one point, the judge instructed the jury not to listen to what Donald Trump had said, and struck that from the record. So it's going to be very clear, I think, that the judge will make a tight, tight decision here and say you have to listen to what was before you that I did not strike.

Not what Donald Trump may have said about what he thought outside. This is solely to the four corners of what's in the testimony.

BERMAN: Jury gets the case today, how likely do you think it is that we'll get a ruling on the damages today.

SALAND: You know, today would be pretty quick. But I think this is going to be a fairly quick, nonetheless -- may not be today, but it's going to be pretty quick.

BERMAN: All right. Jeremy Saland, great to see you. Thank you very much.

SALAND: You're welcome.

BERMAN: Sara?

SIDNER: Good conversation.

All right. A first of its kind execution has been carried out in Alabama, the fears leading up to the moment, what happened, and what it means now for the death penalty, potentially across this country. That's ahead.

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[09:53:31]

BOLDUAN: This morning, a prison official in Alabama says a first of its kind execution went as expected. Kenneth Smith was killed by using nitrogen gas, a method that has never been used before, and he was dead in about 25 minutes.

But it seems that the questions surrounding the method, this method of carrying out the death penalty, sort -- the questions surrounding it still remain.

CNN's Isabel Rosales is outside the prison in Alabama.

What are you learning?

ISABEL ROSALES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Kate.

At around 8:25 Central last night, Alabama made clear that we have entered a new era of the death penalty. We're getting a clearer idea of that time line of death via this first execution by nitrogen gas from witnesses and from a statement from the attorney general's office.

From the time that the nitrogen gas started to flow up until death, it was approximately 28 minutes. Now, witnesses say that Smith appeared conscious for several minutes, that for around two minutes, he was struggling up against the gurney, the gurney was shaking. And that he was followed then by several minutes of deep breathing and then the breathing slowed down.

Now, the state is touting this as a success. The attorney general says nitrogen gas has proved to be an effective and humane method of execution. The governor, Kay Ivey, says it was lawfully carried out. Meanwhile, the commissioner, John Hamm, the commissioner of the Alabama Department of Corrections says about that shaking when he was asked by reporters that it was, quote, involuntary movement.

[09:55:07]

Now, CNN was the first to speak to Smith -- Kenneth Smith's spiritual adviser, Reverend Jeff Hood, who was inside of that chamber. He was shaken and emotional by what he saw and he said it was not painless. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REV. JEFF HOOD, SMITH'S SPIRITUAL ADVISER: Anything like, that was torture. That was absolute torture and torture is evil. I thought that was something that as a country that we held that it is wrong to torture people, it is wrong to experiment on people. But that is what I saw. That is what I saw.

I can tell you what I saw tonight was unbelievably visceral. And I think that serves as a warning to governors across this country that are considering hydrogen hypoxia.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROSALES: So remarkable contrast there to what state officials are saying. And I do also want to point out, Kenneth Smith's last words about the death penalty, about what he received nitrogen gas. He says, quote, tonight, Alabama causes humanity to take a step backwards. The family members of Elizabeth tell me this was justice served.

Kate, we are keeping an eye on a press conference here in the next hour from the attorney general's office. We're monitoring that.

BOLDUAN: Isabel, thank you so much in Alabama for us.

John?

BERMAN: All right. Moments ago, closing arguments did begin in the defamation damages trial against Donald Trump but not after a bit of early drama. Donald Trump wasn't there when the proceedings were set to begin, ambled in late. Why? New information coming in.

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