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White House Holds Briefing After 3 U.S. Troops Killed In Jordan; Biden Vows Response After Drone Strike Kills 3 U.S. Soldiers In Jordan; Officials: More Service Members May Seek Treatment For Traumatic Brain Injuries Following Drone Strike; Negotiator: Bipartisan Deal Reached; Ready For Senate Floor Soon; House GOP Reveals Impeachment Articles Against Secy. Mayorkas. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired January 29, 2024 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

JOHN KIRBY, NSC COORDINATOR FOR STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS: And we'll just have to see where it goes. I also want to repeat what I said earlier, we're not overly sanguine here. We're not cocky. We understand there's a lot of hard work ahead and that work ahead of us diplomatically certainly might be affected by events elsewhere in the region.

Not just not just what happened in Jordan and what might come as a result of that, but there's no reason why it should. And that's why we're going to stay at that task.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, good. Thanks, Kirby. Given these dusts, does the White House acknowledge that the previous retaliatory strikes that it has taken in the region have been ineffective at protecting American troops?

KIRBY: The strikes that we have taken in the past have definitely had an impact on degrading and disrupting the activities of some of these groups. Clearly, they have decided to keep conducting those attacks. And now it's had lethal consequences for American troops.

And so we will weigh an additional set of options before us. The president will make his decision to respond appropriately. The attacks need to stop.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Does the president have all the legal authority --

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: We've been to President Biden's National Security Council Spokesman, John Kirby, from the podium in the press room at the White House. He says the volatile situation in the Middle East is fundamentally different now after a drone strike killed three American service members in Jordan.

He confirmed that President Biden met twice with his national security team as they worked through different options to retaliate, though Kirby would not say explicitly which options are on the table, or even exactly who was behind the attack, though he did blame it on Iranian- backed militants. He did make clear that the United States does not want war with Iran, though he said he would not be telegraphing punches for President Biden. Any response, he said, will be cognizant of the fact that these Tehran-backed militias took American life.

We want to go to CNN's Natasha Bertrand, who's live for us at the Pentagon as we continue to monitor these comments. Natasha, Kirby also expressed confidence that the Pentagon would be able to execute any kind of response. What are you hearing there?

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Yes, Boris. Look, I mean, the Pentagon is a planning organization. That is what they will tell you. They plan for any and every scenario, including potential response options. However, understandably and unsurprisingly, Kirby did not want to telegraph what the U.S. was preparing to do.

He was pressed multiple times on whether the U.S. was prepared to strike inside Iran, which is what many Republican lawmakers have been calling for over the last day or so. And he, as well as Pentagon officials here in the building, they continue to say, look, we're not taking any options off the table here, but we will decide when and where to respond at the time and place of our choosing, something that they have said many times before and in previous strikes on U.S. -- on Iran-backed militias in the -- in Iraq and Syria.

You know, the U.S. has degraded Iranian weapons capabilities, according to Kirby there. He stood by the U.S. assessment that those previous strikes on these Iran-backed militias have been effective here. But the question remains of what kind of response the U.S. now needs to engage in order to deter these groups from continuing to launch these drone attacks, which of course have continued even over the weekend.

There were an additional six attacks, including the one that we saw on that base in Northeast Jordan that ultimately killed those three U.S. Army soldiers. So what is it going to take here to actually deter them for good in a way that really destroys their capabilities, deters them, degrades them in a way that they cannot repeat this kind of attack. That is the situation and the -- what President Biden is grappling with at this moment, Boris.

SANCHEZ: Natasha Bertrand, live from the Pentagon. Thank you so much.

Of course, one of the key questions here, Brianna, is how did this happen? Was there confusion when a U.S. drone approached the base, or did they not see the other drone? What exactly went down is something that they're going to have to investigate.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: That's right. And you heard Kirby saying he's not going to do the forensics. But certainly this is something that appears to have played such a role there, Boris. So let's break all of this down with CNN Military Analyst, Retired Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton.

Colonel Leighton, as you heard Boris mentioning there, apparently you had this attack drone coming in at around the same time that a U.S. drone was returning to the base and there was that confusion. Talk to us a little bit about how that might have happened.

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes, Brianna. This is actually quite a significant tech tactic that the Iranians or their proxies may have used in this particular case. There's one school of thought that says this may have been a coincidence, but I find that highly unlikely.

And the reason I say that is because when there's a flight path for a drone, it's just basically, think of it as an airplane, a normal airplane, and somebody follows it, the radar picture can actually be skewed and you can think that you are seeing the same object.

[14:05:03]

Sometimes radar returns -- reflect things off twice or multiple times, and it's very easy to confuse those radar returns from a friendly aircraft, in this case, our drone, with a non-friendly aircraft, in this case, the Iranian drone that was -- a drone that impacted probably in this area right around here.

KEILAR: Yes, and that's why, as we understand, people were asleep, right? And they would have been in proximity to each other, which is why we're looking at a lot of people injured in addition to these three dead. So many Americans, this may be the first that they are understanding about this U.S. military presence in Jordan. Explain the significance of this base and what it's been used for.

LEIGHTON: Yes. So this is a base that is on the Jordanian side of the Jordan-Syria border. It's also really close to Iraq. There are about 350 Army and Air Force personnel that are based in this base. And you can see it's basically a hexagonal shape security perimeter around it. And it has helicopters around here.

There are a lot of storage facilities and things like this. But the protected area is the one that they wanted to protect most from a force protection standpoint is right here in the middle. And that is the area that impacted with this drone. And also this, of course is, this base is done.

It was set up in a way so that it could support logistically the mission at other bases, such as the one in Syria, which is right across the border at Al-Tanf. That base is one that is really responsible for a large part of our anti-ISIS mission, and it also served as a facility to help support the Syrian Democratic Forces when they were fighting Assad in Syria itself.

KEILAR: Yes, certainly. And also with us, we have CNN Political and National Security Analyst David Sanger of the New York Times. And David, obviously we've been seeing an uptick in these attacks by Iranian proxies since October. We see some of the attacks in Iraq here. It's not a new phenomenon, as you heard John Kirby going through, even if this is the first fatal one that we have seen since October 7th.

DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL & NATIONAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: That's right, Brianna. And what we heard from the administration for the past couple of weeks was that these mounting attacks were sooner or later going to result in a death. They were been lucky 160 times roughly and got very unlucky on Sunday. The question is, how has this changed the picture the way you heard from John Kirby there before during the White House briefing.

And the answer is that it forces the president's hand to react much more strongly than he has when there were just some light injuries or no injuries at all. And now the question is, how does he do that? And his choices range from the unsatisfying, which is to say, hit the proxies again, although right now, there's still a little bit of doubt about which proxy have launched this attack and from where.

And the other option is to go right after the source of their funds and their arms, and that's Iran. That's what you're hearing a lot from the Republicans. That's a highly risky move, so risky that former President Trump, when he was in office, pulled back twice from the option of striking Iran.

KEILAR: Yes, that is a very good point that you make there, David. Well, when we talk, Cedric, about these proxies here, these regional groups, let's talk about the capabilities. Let's talk about the goals and how the Biden administration has been dealing with them so far.

LEIGHTON: Yes. Well, Brianna, this is very interesting because a lot of the focus that we've had has been on the groups, the Iranian proxy militia groups that are in Iraq and those that are in Syria. Among the ones that are primarily in Iraq is a group called Kata'ib Hezbollah.

That group is very significant because it's basically the largest group that is a proxy for the Iranians. It's a Shia group. We killed their leader in -- back in 2020. So they would have every reason to go after us. And they've been doing so, as David mentioned, for quite some time. So these groups are active very much in the -- with the idea that they really want to take over the American presence that they want to rid the Middle East of the American presence which is basically Iran's goal as well.

There are groups, of course, that in Gaza and the West Bank, we talk a lot about Hamas. Of course, the Palestinian Islamic Jihad is also active there. Hezbollah in Lebanon, the Houthis in Yemen. All of these groups come together to include groups in Bahrain, which is the headquarters of the Fifth Fleet, which is, of course, of vital U.S. interest and right next door to Qatar.

So there are a lot of groups in this area that the Iranians are controlling through various means. Some of them direct, some of them indirect, but they, in many ways, really support the Iranian foreign policy goal of getting rid of the U.S. presence in the Middle East.

[14:10:04]

KEILAR: That's right. That Kata'ib Hezbollah leader taken out during the Soleimani strike, right?

LEIGHTON: Exactly. KEILAR: When we look at sort of this -- actually, this is what I want to pull up -- this U.S. military personnel in the Mideast because we've been talking, David, so much about it and you see the numbers here and there are a lot. This is the presence that Iran would like gone, but this is -- this has been in place for a while, and this is really the footprint of the shadow war with Iran. Talk a little bit about that.

SANGER: First of all, while you see a lot there, it's a lot fewer than it was. I mean, think about what our presence looked like in Iraq, where today we have 2,500 troops. And of course, at the height of the war, it was closer to 100,000.

So, and some of those Americans are leaving. Others are there at the request of various countries, including Saudi Arabia, Qatar, as you heard, Bahrain, where the Fifth Fleet is, and so forth. So there's mixed view about whether or not the United States should maintain a presence.

The second, I think, and critical point, which Cedric was getting at here, is that these groups don't all have exactly the same set of interests. They all might want to see the United States out. They might want to see the United States humiliated. But each one of them has their own domestic politics, and Iran's politics are the most complicated of all.

They're in a succession struggle now for their Supreme Leader, who's aging and not in good health. There's always a struggle between the Islamic Republican Guard and other elements in Iran. And I think President Biden's pretty hesitant right now to get into the midst of that, especially because we don't understand that dynamic terribly well, and we don't understand whether the Iranians actually ordered this attack. You know, these groups do operate somewhat independently, even if they have common financing.

KEILAR: Yes. They fund and train these proxies. They don't have total control over them, but certainly their involvement allows the U.S. so much blame for Iran.

Cedric, David, thank you so much for taking us through this. Obviously, it is very complex. Boris?

SANCHEZ: We want to take a step back and focus on the 30 plus U.S. troops that were injured in the attack in Jordan because officials say they expect that injury count to fluctuate as more service members seek treatment for TBI, traumatic brain injury symptoms.

Joining us now is Dr. F. Perry Wilson, he's an associate professor of medicine and public health at Yale University. Doctor, thank you so much for being with us. Walk us through the range of symptoms that people with TBIs experience.

DR. F. PERRY WILSON, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF MEDICINE & PUBLIC HEALTH, YALE UNIVERSITY: Sure. Thanks for having me, Boris. And I just want to say my heart goes out to the injured service members and of course to the families of those who lost their lives. Traumatic brain injury, TBI, is the most common injury that affects our service men and women, and particularly those that are stationed overseas.

It's the result of generally concussive forces to the head that occur in the setting of a blast. And it's an umbrella term. The symptoms can range from what we see with mild concussion, which might just be, you know, some headache and dizziness all the way to severe injury, paralysis, even death in some cases.

The critical thing is that they don't -- some of these symptoms don't appear the moment the injury is sustained. And that's why this injury number is going to keep going up as people realize in the next few days, as our servicemen and women realize in the next few days that they're still having symptoms, nausea, headache, difficulty with vision or brain fog that aren't clearing up on their own.

SANCHEZ: So you're essentially saying these injuries could get worse with time and even potentially become fatal after the matter, is that right?

WILSON: It would be unusual for an injury that's severe enough to be fatal to last a very long time before it comes to medical attention. Most of the people who have injuries in that level are going to lose consciousness in the setting of a blast. And, you know, one would assume that they would receive medical attention.

Most of the cases that will come to the floor in the next few days will be these more chronic conditions like headache, visual disturbances, nausea, and vomiting. And I should point out, this can persist for weeks, it can persist for months. And of course there's psychological effects as well.

Traumatic brain injury is associated with post-traumatic stress disorder, PTSD, which means that some of these service members might be dealing with the ramifications of this attack, you know, literally for the rest of their lives.

SANCHEZ: I do want to point out for a moment that eight of the 30 or so that were injured have been transferred to Germany for further medical care. I'm wondering what the treatment then looks like for TBI.

[14:15:06]

WILSON: It depends on what exactly the damage is. In general, you know, you're going to get brain scans to look for signs like bleeding or swelling in the brain, which can require surgery to repair individuals where the damage is that extensive are generally in pretty bad shape immediately after the trauma has occurred.

For others, it might be monitoring to see how their symptoms progress. Physical therapy, ideally some psychological counseling as well. In some cases, we can hope this will all, you know, blow over and feel better after a week or two, you know, much like people who sustain a bad concussion playing sports or something have experienced. That's our hope. We obviously don't have too much data on the individual care of these service members.

SANCHEZ: Dr. Wilson, thank you so much for sharing your perspective.

WILSON: Anytime.

SANCHEZ: Of course.

Still ahead, former President Donald Trump says to blame him if the Senate's bipartisan border deal gets blocked. A bill that's potentially dead on arrival once it's released in the coming days. We're going to speak with a Republican congressman on the Homeland Security Committee on where things stand now.

Plus, prosecutors continuing to call witnesses in a historic trial for the parent of a mass shooter. A trial we are following live. And can some patients have gotten Alzheimer's through a medical treatment? We have the results of a fascinating new study in just moments.

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[14:20:24]

SANCHEZ: A bipartisan agreement to secure the border has been reached, but Donald Trump is currently telling Republicans to block it. As of just seconds ago, he posted on social media saying that a border bill is not necessary. Right now, a key negotiator says that lawmakers are finishing up the text of the bill, and that it could be ready to hit the Senate floor in the coming days.

Now, this proposed compromise would allow the president to shut down the border between ports of entry when unlawful crossings reach a certain point. President Biden is urging lawmakers to pass the deal, calling it the toughest set of immigration reforms yet. And the deal's lead Republican negotiator, Senator James Lankford of Oklahoma, calls it, quote, "By far the most conservative border security bill in four decades."

Let's discuss with Republican congressman from Texas, August Pfluger. Congressman, thank you so much for being with us. We should note he is a member of the House Homeland Security Committee. Obviously, this bill goes through a lot. It makes it much more difficult to qualify for asylum.

It expedites deportations, increases the number of Border Patrol agents, and as I noted, it allows the president to shut down the border as a circuit breaker, a failsafe if there is a surge, which President Biden said he would do if it passes. What's your response to this bill? What are your specific reservations about it?

REP. AUGUST PFLUGER (R-TX): Well, I haven't publicly said anything. By the way, thank you for having me. We haven't seen the bill text. I have a lot of respect for Senator James Lankford, a man of integrity and character, and somebody who understands the tragedy of this situation.

But let's start with the facts here. I mean, for three years we have had a wide open border, and it's causing every community, including mine, and all 50 states just tragic results. 8 million people in, 300 people who matched the terror watch list, 50 this year who matched the terror watch list, 100,000 fentanyl deaths.

So my question for the administration and for Secretary Mayorkas is why have you not done anything so far? In fact, since President Biden took office, not a single law has actually changed. The only thing that has changed is their implementation, their guidance to DHS, Border Patrol, ICE, and other agencies.

So it's time for them to shut down the border. And we have asked them year after year since they took office to do just that. And it hasn't happened and we're really in a tragic situation right now.

SANCHEZ: So Congressman, I just want to point out that 8 million number from Customs and Border Protection that you mentioned that is encounters, not actual people that have entered the country. I am curious, though, it sounds like you are open to this bill. What would you say to President Biden, who -- or rather President Trump, who argues that it's not necessary?

PFLUGER: Well, if you go back to that number just quickly, it's actually much more than 8 million. That's just the ones that we know about that were apprehended. So I think that's a point --

SANCHEZ: But those are encounters.

PFLUGER: We certainly --

SANCHEZ: -- events, not actual people. And aside from that numbers --

PFLUGER: That's exactly and --

SANCHEZ: I'm curious to get your feeling about the bill.

PFLUGER: -- the known got away number is much larger. We haven't seen the bill text. What I will point to you is, in May of 2023, so last year, the committee that I serve on Homeland Security passed H.R. 2, which was an incredible border security package. We sent it to the Senate, and there it is rested.

Since May of 2023, why has Senator Schumer not taken that up? Why has he not prioritized? And I would ask the president right now, President Biden, is it because we're in an election year that finally you get to the point where this matters? So, we have a bill, we sent it there, it's a good bill, and we need action from the Senate and the President.

SANCHEZ: I think they have issues with that bill for a number of reasons, the way that it targets humanitarian groups and such. But I think that the counterpoint from them is that they are willing to move forward on things that would restrict immigration without asking for things that Democrats historically have asked for, like a pathway to citizenship for dreamers or so called amnesty.

That was the reason that Donald Trump tanked an immigration deal back in 2018. Are you concerned that passing up on this offer from Democrats to move forward on something that a lot of Republicans want could ultimately doom you down the road if you don't take this off for now.

PFLUGER: I'm worried about shutting the border down. This is not political to me. In fact, it shouldn't be political at anybody. It's an 80-20 issue throughout the United States. Regardless of which party you support, people believe that we should have a strong border. That's separate from some of the immigration issues you brought up.

And again, the tragedies in our community, the 53 people who were smuggled into the United States who died in a tractor trailer last summer. People in my constituency, a 71-year-old grandmother and her 7-year-old granddaughter that were killed by human traffic are doing 100 miles an hour carrying 11 people, those are the impacts that we have to stop.

[14:25:15]

Of course, immigration reform needs to happen, but we are so egregiously missing the point from the administration's perspective. This is why we're going to move forward with an impeachment of Secretary Mayorkas because he really has missed the mark on keeping our country safe.

SANCHEZ: I do want to ask you about the effort to impeach Mayorkas, but I just want to put a pin on this. You are open to the possibility of voting for this bill depending on what you see in the text. Is that fair?

PFLUGER: We, in the House, are committed to border security. We demonstrated that by passing the best border security legislation in several decades, that's H.R. 2.

SANCHEZ: Understood, but on this bills --

PFLUGER: And so, whatever we pass in the House, whatever I vote for in the House, is going to have to reflect the nature of H.R. 2 and its base foundation.

SANCHEZ: All right, I'll take that point and move to the attempt to impeach Secretary Mayorkas. You're accusing him of high crimes and misdemeanors for failing to follow the law. Also, you accuse him of making false statements. But you just noted that the Biden administration gives him guidance.

Like, the Biden administration has interpreted the law a certain way and the White House has directed him to carry out immigration policy a certain way. So why is he responsible for immigration policy and not the White House? Why impeach him?

PFLUGER: Well, that is a great question. And I think other people in different committees are looking at that. On the Homeland Security Committee where this impeachment, the articles of impeachment have been referred, we are looking at the security of our nation.

And by the way, this is the youngest committee formed after the 9/11 era to keep our country safe from terrorism. There's two articles, and they're very straightforward. Secretary Mayorkas has willfully refused to follow the law, specifically on detention and parole. And he has an egregious breach of public trust in doing so.

He is charged and has taken an oath of office. I took one as a military member myself. He's taken an oath of office to keep us safe. Were it not for our oversight starting in January of last year when we took the House, you wouldn't even know that there were 300 plus known or suspected terrorists in this country.

It is so egregious, it has gotten to such a point. 8 million might be the number of apprehensions, but Boris, we all know that the number of people who are called known gotaways is much higher than that. And when the mayor of New York City, Eric Adams, is saying that he has an emergency -- remember, he's a sanctuary city -- when he has an emergency due to illegal immigration, you know that the situation is bad.

It has hurt every single community. And it's so egregious. And we take no pleasure in this.

SANCHEZ: Sure.

PFLUGER: There is absolutely no pleasure in this. But we have been left no other option. Enough is enough. And it's time that we get the administration's attention and let the American people know that we're standing up for them.

SANCHEZ: And Congressman, one last question. You noted your military service. I want to get your reaction to that attack in Jordan that killed three U.S. service members. Some of your colleagues are calling for Iran to be directly targeted as a response. Do you agree?

PFLUGER: Well, I certainly think that the administration has acted weakly. Iran needs to be deterred. I served in that exact area where that drone unfortunately impacted those service members. Our thoughts and prayers are with them.

But the administration, quite frankly, has acted so weakly. And when you look at October 7th, since that point in time, I have been very, very straightforward with President Biden calling for him to deter Iran, who is the largest state sponsor of terrorism.

So absolutely, we do need to react in a way that will deter further attacks. We need to protect our servicemen and women, many of whom are my friends that are still serving in that area. We have to deescalate that, and the only way you do that is strength through peace.

SANCHEZ: Congressman August Pfluger, and I have to leave the conversation there --

PFLUGER: Boris, if I could just rephrase that, that's peace through strength, so --

SANCHEZ: Yes.

PFLUGER: -- thank you for letting me rephrase that.

SANCHEZ: We got the sentiment of it. Thank you so much, Congressman, appreciate your time and your perspective.

PFLUGER: Thank you, Boris.

SANCHEZ: Of course.

Coming up next, emotions running high in court today. A historic trial for the mother of the Oxford school shooter. We have all the latest developments.

And as Russia heads into election season, there's a sharp rise in egg prices that has the Kremlin doing damage control. We'll break it down in just moments.

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