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Russia Using Weapons Containing U.S. Parts?; Interview With Fmr. Rep. Fred Upton (R-MI); Nikki Haley Vows to Stay in Presidential Race; Biden Campaign Raising Historic Amounts. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired February 20, 2024 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:00]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Money haul. President Biden and the Dems raking in millions last month, far outpacing Republicans, as they gear up for November and despite nagging worries about Biden's reelection. The president leaves soon for another fund-raising trip.

Nikki Haley says, when it comes to the Republican nomination race, she's not going anywhere. She is behind former President Trump in the polls, but she's vowing to keep fighting for at least two more weeks, if not longer. That may be the last thing the Trump campaign wants to hear, as it's already hitting back at his last remaining challenger.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: And a decision that could have major implications for anyone trying to become pregnant through in vitro fertilization, an Alabama court ruling that frozen embryos created by IVF are actually living children.

We will dig into the implications of that decision, as we follow these major developing stories and many more, all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

KEILAR: Presidential campaigns are all about the money and the message. And, today, President Biden is ramping up both. He's heading on a three-day fund-raising blitz in California that will add to his already historic amount of cash reserves. And it comes as CNN learns he personally directed his staff to step up their efforts to call out former President Donald Trump.

Biden isn't the only one on the trail today, Trump and Nikki Haley stumping in South Carolina ahead of Saturday's primary there. Haley is behind by double digits in polls in her home state. She says, though, she's not going anywhere, as the Trump campaign says she's out of gas.

We have reporters on the ground covering all of this. We have M.J. Lee at the White House. Kylie Atwood is on the trail with the Haley campaign, and Kristen Holmes is in Washington.

M.J., to you first.

Tell us about Biden's new messaging push.

M.J. LEE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Brianna, what we have learned is that President Biden himself personally instructed some of his top campaign aides to be even more aggressive in highlighting some of President Trump's more inflammatory and wild comments.

We are told that the thrust of the president's direction was to significantly ramp up the campaign's efforts to highlight the crazy shit that Trump says in public.

We have been seeing, of course, for a while, the Biden campaign trying to highlight what they see as the black-and-white contrast between President Biden and former President Trump on everything, including their temperament, their world views, their policies.

And as the Biden campaign is making this pivot to a general election, this reporting seems to show that President Biden himself believes that it is incredibly important to make sure that they are really leaning into painting the former president as being unhinged and unfit for office.

Now, when we reached out to the Biden campaign for comment for this story, the Biden campaign's rapid response director said in part that Donald Trump is the polar opposite of everything that President Biden stands for and that this stark contrast is one that they're going to continue to highlight.

One thing that I do think it's worth pointing out that the Biden campaign has been concerned about for a while is this idea that so many voters seem to have sort of forgotten about the first four years of the Trump presidency and what they see as having been sort of these unacceptable and outrageous moments from those first four years.

And so, clearly, part of the strategy going forward is going to be more aggressively trying to remind voters of what they see as having been unacceptable.

KEILAR: And on the money side here, M.J., take us through this latest haul.

LEE: Yes, the campaign just announced this morning that President Biden raised $42 million both for the campaign and the Democratic Party in the month of January, and they ended that month with $130 million of cash on hand.

And this is the largest figure for a Democratic presidential candidate at this point in the presidential campaign. Money, of course, translates into having the freedom and the resources to run the kind of campaign that a campaign wants to run. So this is certainly good news for the Biden campaign and is in contrast from the amount of money that we have seen raised by Trump and the RNC.

And all of this, of course, comes at a tenuous moment for the Biden campaign, as they're facing a lot of concerns and questions, including on his age -- Brianna.

KEILAR: All right, M.J. Lee, thank you for that report live for us from the White House -- Boris. SANCHEZ: Let's get you to South Carolina now, because Kylie Atwood

was there for Haley's state of the race speech last hour.

Kylie, Haley here vowing she's not going to get out of this race any time soon.

[13:05:00]

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right, a very defiant tone from Nikki Haley here, saying that she refuses to quit, that she's not going to cave, that she's willing to take the cuts and bruises, very clearly laying out that she is in this at least for the next few weeks here.

And when it comes to South Carolina primary, that's just five days from now on Saturday, she told folks in this room that, come Sunday, essentially, no matter what happens in that primary, she's still going to be in this. She said she's going to go on to Michigan. She's going to go on to those Super Tuesday states.

And also a striking line from her Boris, saying that she is going to stay in this race until all of the votes are cast, effectively leaving the door open to potentially staying in the race through the entirety of the primary.

Now, her campaign is saying that she's going to stay in it so long as the American voters are with her. We will just have to see how that plays out. And when it comes to former President Trump, she said that she is not threatened by him, effectively, saying that she isn't fearful of retaliation from him.

Listen to what she said on that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NIKKI HALEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I feel no need to kiss the ring.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

HALEY: I have no fear of Trump's retribution. I'm not...

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

HALEY: I'm not looking for anything from him. My own political future is of zero concern.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ATWOOD: Now, the Trump campaign, for their part, trying to undercut Nikki Haley's message, earlier today putting out a memo saying that her campaign is broken down and also revealing how they see the state of the race in the next month or so, with the expectation that former President Trump will get enough delegates either on March 12 or March 19 to actually clinch the Republican nomination. Now, Nikki Haley, for her part, did not get into any delegate math

here in South Carolina today, but, of course, it is an incredibly steep hill if she's going to turn around the momentum that is certainly on former President Trump's side heading into the South Carolina primary.

SANCHEZ: Yes, the delegate math right now not on Nikki Haley's side.

Kylie Atwood from South Carolina, thank you so much.

We want to get you the Trump perspective of all of this. So let's bring in CNN's Kristen Holmes.

Kristen, obviously, as Kylie noted a moment ago, the Trump team just wants to put Nikki Haley behind them, state of the race speech or not.

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Boris, that's right.

I mean, they are clearly very annoyed with the fact that she's still in the race, and they want to focus on Biden in a general election, but they feel like they have to deal with this first. You can talk about that memo that Kylie mentioned there. This was sent out by the campaign heads about this delegate math.

And it's not anything new. They have been projecting since before Iowa that he would be the nominee -- or the presumptive Republican nominee by the middle of March. Now they're giving a latest March 19 date, but, obviously, they're just trying to offset these remarks, the state of the race remarks by Nikki Haley.

They also said that her campaign would effectively be over on Saturday. And I have to tell you, Boris, when I talk to these various senior advisers, they do actually believe that. They believe that South Carolina is Trump's to lose, that even though it is her home state, that he is effectively leading the party there.

And I do want to show you our recent poll numbers, because there's a reason that they believe this. This is from a CBS poll. And it shows Donald Trump receiving 65 percent of the Republican vote to 30 percent for Nikki Haley. And it's because of that you have really seen a lot less extensive campaigning in South Carolina than we saw in Iowa or New Hampshire.

Donald Trump has only been on the ground once since the New Hampshire primary. In addition to that, he has a town hall tonight and a couple of other events on Friday and Saturday, but still not that pounding the pavement.

We also know they have spent barely any money, no expensive ad buys on any kind of television advertisements. The super PAC hasn't spent a dime in the state of South Carolina, so, again, just giving you an indication of how confident they feel that he will come out on top and that those poll numbers are right.

But, as you said, they are clearly still trying to push Nikki Haley out of the race. So far, it doesn't seem like she's going anywhere. SANCHEZ: Kristen Holmes, thank you so much for that, just four days

to go before the South Carolina primary.

KEILAR: It is so soon.

Let's discuss this now with former Republican Congressman Fred Upton, who informally advised the No Labels political group, and also with us, former press secretary to first lady Jill Biden and special assistant to the president Michael LaRosa.

Thank you to both of you for joining us here in studio.

And I wonder, Fred, what you thought of Nikki Haley's speech, but also what is the calculus for her? How does she survive beyond Saturday as she makes it clear she plans on doing if the result is anything like the polling that we are seeing?

FMR. REP. FRED UPTON (R-MI): Well, she's going to have a tough time surviving. The numbers don't look very good, particularly in South Carolina. But, remember, the turnout is so low.

[13:10:01]

But her best line, for sure, was, some people think that I was in this thing to run for vice president, to be on the vice presidential slate. Clearly, that's not the case. And she laughed about it herself. I mean, that's -- she's done in terms of the Trump campaign. That's for sure. So, maybe you wake up in '28, but she's got a really tough road in South Carolina.

She's coming to Michigan next week. She's trailing there as well. So I don't -- she's not going to be able to close the gap, but she's got money. I mean, I think maybe she's hoping for a miracle, that Trump gets -- goes away somehow.

SANCHEZ: To that point, Michael, about the fact that she has money...

MICHAEL LAROSA, FORMER SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO PRESIDENT BIDEN: Yes.

SANCHEZ: ... this speech was just as much for the voters as it was for the folks that are backing her financially, right?

LAROSA: Yes.

And four years ago -- it's hard for me to tell her she should get out when, four years ago, Joe Biden had -- we had no money. We had lost three contests before we went into South Carolina. A lot of people in the -- not in the media, but the opinion world, were telling Joe Biden he should probably get out or writing his political obituary.

But we hung onto South Carolina. I'm not saying that's going to happen for Nikki Haley, but -- and time does run out where you have to start winning, put numbers on the board, right? And...

UPTON: He had Jim Clyburn. And she has nobody like that.

LAROSA: Well, yes. I mean, there are unforeseen events that can change campaigns.

UPTON: Yes.

LAROSA: But that just shows you that campaigns are really -- they're not static. They change. And events can change things. People can change things, yes.

KEILAR: When you look at Biden here and this record fund-raising haul, Michael, that we're seeing, I mean, it's huge, but how big of a deal is it these days and in the context of this likely Trump-versus- Biden race?

LAROSA: So, I think it shows that there's confidence in the president from the Democratic -- from Democratic voters at the grassroots level, at the donor level.

But you're right. It doesn't really matter. I think Trump was -- or Hillary, I think, raised -- outraised Donald Trump almost 2-1. I think we outrace Trump the last time. I could be wrong. I have to go check that. But money matters very little.

And I would also say the Biden campaign needs it. President Trump gets -- former President Trump gets an inordinate amount of free media every day. He is probably in the news or -- whether it's good or bad. He's in the news in people's faces more than President Biden, and by the nature of the fact that he has a lot of extraneous things going on in his life other than a campaign.

SANCHEZ: He's also having to spend quite a bit of money on legal issues.

I just want to point out for folks watching at home the congressman asked me to call him Fred, so I'm not disrespecting him by calling him Fred.

(LAUGHTER)

KEILAR: We have been instructed.

UPTON: Yes.

SANCHEZ: Fred, for Donald Trump, isn't it an advantage that the Biden team gets to spend all of their funds on just advertising and getting the message out, and Trump, not only is he focusing so much of his time on the courtroom and trying to spread his message there, but also financially doesn't that tax him long term?

UPTON: But it's actually helped him with the base, because he's tried to make himself look like the victim.

And he is -- as Michael said, he is dominating the news. I mean, we know whether he's showing up in the courtroom or the -- I get 10 or 20 different e-mails from him every day. He's already got the -- wrote the obituary for Nikki for Saturday. I mean, he's all over the place.

And he did that in 2016. I mean, he was on "Imus" every day. I mean, he was like -- the press loved him. And someone like Jeb Bush and others, who was in the race back then, they could get nowhere, even though they raised more money than he did at the time. He got all the earned media and pushed everyone aside. The same thing is sort of happening this time.

KEILAR: Let me play a little devil's advocate on the Biden money.

You said it is confidence. Is it also a little bit perhaps anxiety? We know there's a lot of anxiety among Democrats. This was actually campaign co-chair Mitch Landrieu this morning talking about it. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MITCH LANDRIEU, SENIOR ADVISER TO PRESIDENT BIDEN: I understand that the concern about the polls. You see this actually for both candidates.

But, essentially, as this campaign heats up, you're going to have to make a choice between two very, very different people. We're in February. The election is in November. To expect everything to be the way it is on November 7 is unrealistic. And the bed-wetting just gets exhausting.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: What does it take to quiet the concerns?

LAROSA: So, huge fan of the mayor and -- but what I would say is, voting starts technically in almost I think eight months. Early voting starts at the beginning of October, the end of September in some of these states.

So the window to change perceptions is closing rather quickly. And what the president needs to do is just go out there and mix it up with reporters, engage with the media more. The reason why Donald Trump gets the benefit of the doubt when it comes to their age, when they're not that far apart in age, is because Donald Trump is out there showing and telling every day that he is capable.

[13:15:02]

And President Biden is more than capable. But people have to -- not people, not the press, because the press could care less if Joe Biden wins or loses. Let's be clear. Voters need to see Joe Biden out there fighting against the misperceptions about his ability to serve. They need to see it to restore confidence, but also to get excited.

SANCHEZ: Fred, what do you make of that strategy that we have heard a lot of strategists on the Democratic side calling for, to get Biden out there more to dispel this notion that he's disconnected?

UPTON: Well, it's true that, the more he's on, I mean, the more he has some of these problems.

And it just reinforces the impression that's already there, I mean, the way that he walks, the mixing up Egypt and Mexico with the leaders, I mean, just a whole variety of things. And it's one of the reasons why you look at the polls -- and Nikki has now said this, Nikki Haley has said this a number of times over the last couple of weeks -- 70 percent of the American public really doesn't want a rematch between these two.

There's a lot of reasons on both sides.

KEILAR: Their voting tells us differently, I will say.

(CROSSTALK)

(LAUGHTER)

LAROSA: Sorry to interrupt, Congressman.

(CROSSTALK)

LAROSA: But I would just say, the more that he is out there doing interviews, big interviews, small interviews, mixing it up with the press, the less those human, very common human mistakes will matter.

And that's why I think Trump gets the benefit of the doubt, because he is out there every day, and he makes a lot of mistakes. He couldn't even pick out his ex-wife when a picture was put to his face.

UPTON: Yes.

LAROSA: But he's out there all the time, and that gives his own voters confidence and restores doubt.

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: He mistook his -- E. Jean Carroll for his ex-wife.

(CROSSTALK)

LAROSA: Yes, sorry. Yes.

(CROSSTALK)

UPTON: See, everybody makes these mistakes every now and then.

Sorry, Amey. I know my wife.

(CROSSTALK)

(LAUGHTER)

LAROSA: But they are common mistakes.

(CROSSTALK)

UPTON: And she's watching.

LAROSA: The more -- the more the president -- and he's going to make mistakes, but the more he is out there engaging the media, engaging the public, the less those mistakes matter.

UPTON: But you got to remember too, for the Trump folk, it's usually the Trump voters, the supporters that are watching him. Folks that are not, they're turning to a different channel.

LAROSA: Yes.

UPTON: So he's reinforcing his own base, particularly as a victim.

KEILAR: Fred and Michael, great conversation. Thank you so much as we gear up to South Carolina.

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: And ahead: forced to fight against U.S. weapons technology. An examination of a Russian missile fired in Ukraine shows it was actually made with mostly American parts. We will have details ahead.

Plus, new CNN reporting about Fulton County prosecutor Fani Willis, a winery host in Napa appearing to back up part of her testimony.

And a decision by Alabama's Supreme Court could have huge implications for anyone there considering becoming pregnant by in vitro fertilization or even anyone who has embryos in storage there who has used in vitro fertilization in Alabama.

We have these stories and more ahead this hour on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:22:16]

KEILAR: A new report reveals that weapons with American parts are being used by Russia in its war against Ukraine.

The investigation by the group Conflict Armament Research found this ballistic missile that struck Kharkiv last month, it was fired by Russia, made by North Korea, and it contained components mostly designed and sold by companies here in the United States.

CNN Pentagon correspondent Oren Liebermann has all of the details on these very interesting findings.

And, Oren, this is one that certainly has got to frustrate the Biden administration.

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, because this has been a longstanding effort of the Biden administration to try to stop U.S. and Western components from getting to adversaries for them to make weapons, and that includes Iran and North Korea.

In this case, Conflict Armament Research, a U.K.-based investigative organization, looked at that ballistic missile that Russia fired on Ukraine, on Kharkiv last month. And look at these numbers. According to their information, 75 percent of the components were U.S.-made, 16 percent were based in Europe, and only 9 percent came from Asia. That means that North Korea is able to get these components and fold

them into their weapons fairly quickly, in fact. According to the organization, a lot of these components were made between 2021 and 2023, meaning the supply chain moved quickly enough to create the missile and then get it fired.

Now, let's be clear here. The U.S. companies aren't providing weapons components, but they are providing some of the critical -- some of the systems that are critical to these weapons, circuit boards, microelectronics, electrical components, all of which are needed to make these missiles function.

And it's not that these companies are sending them directly to North Korea, but once they're sent out into the international market, North Korea and Iran before this, they have ways of getting and accessing these components and then folding them into their missiles, and that's the concern here.

This same organization, Conflict Armament Research, previously looked at an Iranian drone that had been fired by Russia in Ukraine and found that more than 80 percent of the components were U.S. components that they had gotten their hands on and then folded into their weaponry.

So it's a major concern, one, Brianna, that is very difficult for the U.S. to stop because of how complicated and how much there is, essentially, to the international market that allows these to go from U.S. companies who unwittingly sell their products and then they find their way to North Korea, who is able to fold this into deadly weapons used against Ukraine.

KEILAR: All right, Oren Liebermann, thank you for those details -- Boris.

SANCHEZ: Let's discuss this issue further with CNN military analyst retired Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton.

Colonel Leighton, thanks so much for sharing part of your afternoon with us.

Oren sort of alluded to it, but I'm curious to get your perspective on how these U.S.-made components, these parts wind up in enemy hands.

[13:25:05]

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes, it's quite an extensive operation, Boris.

And one of the key things to note is that North Korea has a long history of actually evading sanctions. So what they're doing is, they're coming in, they're using front companies in various locations, many of them in Asia, to buy up products in the global supply chain that they can then turn around and use in their weapons manufacturing process.

So, for example, a guidance system would come in using the various chips that they use, and that would be part of a system that is in a -- in the supply chain normally. The North Koreans would buy that guidance system or the components of that guidance system and then take that to North Korea, build the missile, incorporate the guidance system in that missile, and then ship the completed missile to Russia.

And then it ends up in Ukraine that way.

SANCHEZ: So, Colonel, as Oren was just laying out for us, the U.S. recently targeted some front companies based in Hong Kong with sanctions.

They were allegedly fronts that would wind up using U.S. parts for drones like the one that killed U.S. service members recently in Jordan. How difficult would it be for the U.S. to try to get a handle on this just using sanctions?

LEIGHTON: I think it would be extremely difficult. There has to be some significant enforcement on the ground in places like Hong Kong.

And, of course, Hong Kong is controlled by China now. So, it's -- it would be very difficult to get law enforcement there to actually fix that particular part of the supply chain. So, I think it would be very hard to do that. There would have to be other ways of going after them, perhaps even covert means, to go after these particular areas and these particular front companies.

And that is something that I think would be very difficult to do, especially given who controls what in places like Hong Kong, Macau and other places like that.

SANCHEZ: That covert approach that you mentioned is really intriguing.

The Biden administration did set up a task force back in 2022 to investigate a similar issue, just how Western-made components were ending up in Iranian drones that Russia was launching into Ukraine. We haven't really gotten much word on progress being made by that task force. But if the U.S. could limit how accessible these parts are, how big a difference could that make on the battlefield?

LEIGHTON: Well, it would be significant, Boris.

I think it would be a -- it would make a great deal of difference for the Ukrainians, because, if you could, for example, trace the different parts that are made -- make their way into these missiles and prevent them from working, that would then create a situation on the battlefield where those weapons wouldn't be as effective.

They would perhaps not even be able to launch them, or, if they did launch them, they wouldn't be as accurate. And that would be, I think, a significant advantage or a significant area that could be used. But it would be very difficult to do. And it would also require, in essence, tagging each of these areas, each of these different components.

And that would, of course, make a big, big difference. But it would be a huge benefit to the Ukrainians if we could stop the supply of these types of components, these chips, these guidance systems in these particular areas.

SANCHEZ: Colonel Cedric Leighton, always appreciate the perspective, sir. Thanks.

LEIGHTON: You bet, Boris.

SANCHEZ: Of course.

Still ahead: A winery employee who says he once served the Fulton County district attorney is now backing up a key part of her testimony. What he says he remembers about her visit -- when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)