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Donald Trump Holds Lead over Nikki Haley in Michigan Republican Presidential Primary; House Republicans Holding Up Voting on Bills to Avert Partial Government Shutdown; Hunter Biden to Testify before House Committee on Capitol Hill. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired February 27, 2024 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: -- is besieged by intensifying calls among Republicans opposed to more Ukraine aid, especially from the pro-Trump wing of his conference as he seeks to cling to his job longer than his ill-fated predecessor Kevin McCarthy. But Johnson's lonely dilemma is being sharpened as the administration singles him out as the one man who can thwart or enable Putin's attempt to wipe Ukraine off the map. It's down to one man to decide the fate of Ukraine, essentially, and that's not Biden, that's not Putin. It's a relatively inexperienced House speaker, is the argument here. Do you see it that way?

WILLIAM TAYLOR, VICE PRESIDENT, EUROPE AND RUSSIA AT THE U.S. INSTITUTE OF PEACE: No. I see it more broadly. This is a decision for the House of Representatives. The Senate has made its decision. Then Senate in an overwhelming 70 to 29 vote, bipartisan -- almost all the Democrats, 22 Republicans in the Senate, they supported the Ukraine package. That's where it's going now into the House.

And yes, the speaker does have a lot of decisions, a lot of authority to make a decision about when it comes to a vote or if it comes to a vote. But there are other people in the House who are looking for options to either get the speaker to allow a vote on something that they could put together, or to actually go around him, which is possible to do. If he sees people going around him, it may encourage him to make the decisions, OK, bring it to a vote.

BOLDUAN: Big meeting today at the White House. This is among the very serious and important topics that are going to be happening amongst the top congressional leaders and the president. Ambassador Taylor, it's very good to see you. Thank you.

TAYLOR: Thank you.

SARA SIDNER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Happening right now, Michiganders are voting in the presidential primary. How divided our Democrats? Can Haley muster up new hope, or will Donald Trump take that state, too? The wolverine state will answer those questions today.

BOLDUAN: Hunter Biden is headed back to Capitol Hill. This time he's going behind closed doors to answer questions. JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: And dramatic body camera footage just released of the deadly shooting at Joel Osteen's megachurch.

I'm John Berman with Sara Sidner and Kate Bolduan. This is CNN News Central.

SIDNER: Voters, as John called it, in the swingiest swing state of Michigan are heading to the polls right now. And this pivotal day could answer some major questions for President Biden, Donald Trump, and Nikki Haley. Biden won the state in 2020, but a large block of Democrats there are angry over the president's strong support of Israel as huge numbers of Palestinian civilians are being killed in its war with Hamas. They plan to send a message today with a protest vote. It may give Biden an inkling of how big of an issue this might be in November.

As for Donald Trump, he's looking for another big margin victory. Another big question, though, will Nikki Haley make a dent in that number with a strong showing and help keep her campaign alive. She'll pitch herself to the voters right here on CNN News Central. Kate Bolduan will be speaking with her in just the next hour.

Now, CNN political director David Chalian is now joining us from Washington, D.C. There is always something bigger at stake when it comes to Michigan. Talk us through it.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well, no doubt about that. I mean, 15 is the number really to watch. That's how many electoral votes are at stake in Michigan in November. And what we're going to get tonight, Sara, are some clues, especially as it relates to President Biden. He, as you know, Michigan was one of the states that he flipped from red to blue that helped secure his victory for the White House. And so piecing together, back together, that 2020 winning coalition is mission critical for Joe Biden. And tonight, because of this protest vote that you're talking about with uncommitted and the disenchantment with younger voters and progressives, we're going to see some exposure here, some vulnerabilities likely of Biden's general election posture.

SIDNER: All right, I do want to ask you about sort of the history of this. Biden won in Michigan in 2020 with the help of young progressive and Arab voters. But now there's this big statement being pushed, this movement to vote uncommitted. Potentially thousands of people could do so in protest of his support of Israel. I mean, how serious of a threat might this be to the Biden campaign, and how much are they watching this particular issue?

CHALIAN: Well, they're watching it very closely. Theres no doubt about that. They've dispatched administration officials. They've dispatched political surrogates. There's no doubt about that. And you even hear some of their allies like Senator Debbie Stabenow on our air this morning, or Governor Gretchen Whitmer on CNN just in the last couple of days, saying that there is this real sense of unease among some inside the Democratic electorate and coalition here related to Biden's Israel-Gaza policies.

[08:04:58]

Now, Sara, when you say how much damage can really be done, Joe Biden is going to be the Democratic nominee. Joe Biden is going to collect more delegates tonight in Michigan. It's not as if he's at risk of somehow losing that stature. What is clear here, what is going to be exposed for us to see here, how big a to-do item is bringing back the young, the progressive, the Arab-American pieces of the coalition in Michigan specifically, because it's really tough, really tough to see how Joe Biden wins a second term in the White House without Michigan in his corner.

SIDNER: Yes, I do want to talk to you, too, about Nikki Haley. She says over and over that Trump can't win a general election. There is some polling that she could. She lost, though, in South Carolina by 20 votes. She won, though, 40 percent of the vote there in that state. She's promised to stay in the race at least through super Tuesday. I mean, what does a win look like for her right now? Is that a possibility even?

CHALIAN: Well, a win looks like an actual win, and that's not likely to happen in Michigan. And in fact, Michigan is going to be one of the first tests we've seen this cycle where Nikki Haley has not spent tens of millions of dollars visiting the state, often holding events. That happened in Iowa, that happened in New Hampshire, that happened in South Carolina.

So now we're going to see what is sort of the natural baseline of support inside the context of a Republican primary for Donald Trump? We talked a lot on Saturday night about that 40 percent and what that represents in terms of his exposure in terms of general election vulnerabilities. Today, since it hasn't been a fully engaged primary campaign in Michigan, I think we're going to learn just what is that slice of the Republican electorate that even without a fully engaged opponent against Trump is resistant to Trump, and what does that tell us about his vulnerability in a critical battleground state come November.

SIDNER: Yes, even though we -- pretty much the polling shows who will likely when, you're really going to see some details here that are important. Thank you for pointing all of those out, David Chalian, you always do. Kate?

CHALIAN: No problem.

BOLDUAN: This morning, the big four will be convening at the White House with nothing short of the fate of an ally at stake and whether the us government is going to be able to keep the lights on. Without action and simply getting -- without action and simply getting their act together, Congress will trigger a government shutdown by week's end. And while these top four congressional leaders are meeting with President Biden, congressional gridlock has left lawmakers muttering a lot of four-letter words.

CNN's Lauren Fox is in Washington. She's joining us now. Lauren, what could come from this meeting? What are you hearing? LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, certainly the

stakes are really high at this moment as lawmakers meet with the president today at the White House, and specifically the question on the table is whether or not they're going to be able to come to some kind of an agreement to avert that government shutdown, which will happen Friday at midnight.

And right now, it's not clear what the path is. And this isn't really a divide necessarily between Republicans and Democrats. This is kind of a divide between House Republicans and everybody else. You are starting to hear so much frustration from both Republican and Democratic senators as they arrive back to Washington last night over the fact that everyone knew this deadline was coming, everyone knew what was at stake, and yet they are still grappling with coming to some kind of an agreement on those four spending bills that are due on Friday at midnight. Here's some Senate Democrats expressing that heartburn.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA): What is wrong with these people? This is, this is the central thing Congress is supposed to do. The Republicans can't seem to get themselves organized just a sign off on the basic work they're supposed to do. This is just ridiculous.

SEN. JOE MANCHIN (D-WV): I swear to God, it is sinful what's going on, the games that are being played right now with the American people and all the people that are depending on the services of the federal government, and we can't even get our act together. It's a shame.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOX: And right now, Speaker Mike Johnson is facing intense pressure from his right flank to get some policy victories as part of these negotiations, something that's going to be a really tall order for Mike Johnson. The House its of Representatives due back in Washington tomorrow, but that just doesn't give them very much time to negotiate with the Senate and get this all hundred out before Friday. Kate?

BOLDUAN: Yes, they never have enough time because they love a deadline, as we know. Lauren, it's great to see you. Thank you so much.

What is it? Ridiculous, sinful, can't get their act together, all the ways I described you, John.

(LAUGHTER)

BERMAN: Thank you. And Montana Senator Jon Tester, what did he call?

BOLDUAN: You called me out for saying a curse word at 07:00 a.m., so I wasn't going to say it again, but for the faint of heart, it was b.s.

BERMAN: Right. Also, what you use to describe me. Thank you.

(LAUGHTER)

BERMAN: So a huge moment shaping up on Capitol Hill. Tomorrow, Hunter Biden will testify behind closed doors in the impeachment investigation into his father.

[08:10:02]

He agreed to sit for a deposition after months of back-and-forth where he pushed to testify in public. CNN chief legal affairs correspondent Paula Reid is in Washington with how all this came together and what it all means, Paula.

PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, John, we weren't sure that we would ever see this day, because Hunter Biden and his lawyers had insisted that he would only testify in a public hearing. They said they were really concerned about selective leaks from Republican lawmakers, which is why they were pushing for a public hearing.

And as you know, the leadup to this day, it has been quite something, lots of a political stunts, two unannounced appearances by Hunter Biden on the Hill, some political sniping, and some hardball negotiations that resulted in at least two concessions from Republicans that have made this possible. The first is that Hunter Biden's deposition will not be videotaped, and that is a departure from other witnesses related to the Biden investigation whose who's interviews have then videotaped.

Now, there was also an agreement when it comes to the transcript. There were concerns that if the majority got Hunter's transcript first, they could potentially selectively leak parts, try to shape the narrative before the full document was made available to the public. But we've learned that there is an agreement that it will be made simultaneously available to both parties and then released to the public pretty quickly, possibly within 24 hours.

Now, Hunter Biden is certainly the most significant witness that they have secured on the Hill in their investigations related to an impeachment inquiry into the president. But it comes just about a week-and-a-half after a significant blow to the allegations against the former president and his son. Of course, the FBI has charged an informant, Alexander Smirnov, with making false statements, with allegedly lying about things he said about Hunter Biden and President Biden receiving bribes.

So Republicans, not necessarily feeling as confident as they were before those allegations. But this is still a significant witness that they're really only able to get in the chair because they were willing to negotiate here.

BERMAN: Yes, and as you say, the timing is fascinating as the impeachment inquiry itself seems to be sputtering a little bit. Paula Reid, thank you very much. I know we'll be talking to you extensively tomorrow. Kate?

BOLDUAN: A former Trump attorney who helped lead the charge on the 2020 fake electors scheme and the secret Twitter account, what a KFile, CNN KFile investigation found that has officials in Michigan saying they want to know more.

And a new report on major safety gaps found at Boeing. We'll be back.

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BERMAN: All right, new this morning, a CNN Investigation: A key figure in the Trump campaign's fake electoral plot concealed a secret Twitter account from Michigan prosecutors. The account belong to lawyer Kenneth Chesebro. It was filled with damning posts that undercut his statements to investigators about his role in the 2020 election subversion scheme.

Chesebro directly denied using Twitter which people call X now and appeared to lie about having any alternate IDs on social media when speaking to Michigan investigators last year in this recorded interview.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

INVESTIGATOR: Do you have any social media presence? Facebook Instagram, Twitter?

KENNETH CHESEBRO, EX-TRUMP ATTORNEY: No, I mean, uh, no. Uh, I, for whatever -- I mean, before the --

INVESTIGATOR: Any alternate IDs that you're using for that kind of stuff?

CHESEBRO: No, I mean, I don't -- I don't do any tweeting.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BERMAN: So a CNN KFile investigation linked Chesebro to the secret account under the name BadgerPundit. The link was made based on numerous matching details including biographical information regarding his work, family travels and investments.

Chesebro's lawyers confirmed to CNN that the BadgerPundit account did in fact belong to Chesebro. His attorney described the account as Chesebro's "random stream of consciousness" that he used to spit ball theories about the election, but insisted it was separate from his work as a lawyer for the Trump campaign -- Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: A lot to talk about here. Let's do that.

Joining us is former Manhattan prosecutor, Jeremy Saland. It's good to see you, Jeremy.

John laid it out really well. How much of a problem and how much trouble is this secret Twitter account and what we know Chesebro had said in depositions? JEREMY SALAND, FORMER MANHATTAN PROSECUTOR: I think it's very, very

serious. In fact, when you're a prosecutor and a criminal defense attorney, you tell that person walking into what we call a queen for a day, this agreement. You are truthful, you are honest, because what you say here can potentially be used against you. And if you lie, it will.

And take separate from that, if you are cooperating, any formal agreement, and you will have to be upfront and disclose and you fail to do so, if it's in the four corners of that agreement, it can set a path to what you will find yourself aware, you will find yourself for that mess up.

BOLDUAN: And what about -- I mean, there are tentacles, you know, Chesebro, if not charged, he is talked about in more than one investigation. Right?

SALAND: Absolutely.

BOLDUAN: You've got the Michigan fake electoral scheme. He was charged and then reached a plea deal with regard to the Georgia election scheme. He is an unindicted co-conspirator in the federal election subversion case.

No matter -- does it matter where he said it? If he wasn't truthful about a secret Twitter account in one place, does it impact the others?

SALAND: It absolutely does and can, and we know from Georgia, one of the parts of that cooperation was he was going to and needed to be truthful and cooperative with Michigan and he's now clearly not done that.

So setting aside the exposure he has, that sort of -- sort of that regret he potentially can have.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

[08:20:03]

SALAND: He has no -- his credibility is now in question. It's really, really serious for the cases that he is involved in and for him in terms of his liability.

BOLDUAN: I want to get your take on some of the statements by Chesebro's attorneys, when approached by CNN about what they found.

Chesebro's lawyer describes the secret account at "as his random stream of consciousness where he was spit balling theories about the election" but insisted it was separate from his legal work with the Trump campaign.

Chesebro's attorney acknowledged in an interview with CNN that "There's clearly a conflict between some of his tweets and what he told Michigan prosecutors and that some of the elector theories he embraced online were inconsistent with his subsequent legal advice to the Trump campaign," and wait, there's more.

And then there's also this: "We should have asked for clarity and that was our screw up," Chesebro's attorney told CNN about him denying to Michigan prosecutors that he used Twitter.

What do you think of that?

SALAND: I think as a criminal defense attorney now, I say what I need to say to help my client and you need to fix mistakes. I think that you take that with a grain of salt. It doesn't hold water. It is a colander with lots of holes.

He was asked a very specific question and he denied using social media. He denied the Twitter account or just using the tweeting. This is problematic and it is substantive, too because it is the fake electors plot. We can use a court -- oh, no, we can't use the courts. We use the state legislature.

BOLDUAN: I'm going to lean really quickly as a former Manhattan prosecutor on what Manhattan prosecutors are asking for today. This gag order request in the hush money trial for Donald Trump. What do you think of that request?

SALAND: I think it's tailored in a way that says what we know, which is we know that the former president attacks witnesses, we know that there's jurors who can be vulnerable. We know there's court staff that can be vulnerable and prosecutors. I think it's the right move and I think the court should grant that in a limited scope.

BOLDUAN: How long do you think that trial is going to be?

SALAND: It could take a good month, longer. I mean, it could be a long time because there's 34 counts and it's monotonous going through all of this in the cross examination. But we're not we're not talking days or weeks. We're talking to multiple weeks.

BOLDUAN: Let us see what happens.

SALAND: We will.

BOLDUAN: Thank you so much, Jeremy. It's good to see you.

SALAND: You as well.

BOLDUAN: Sara.

SIDNER: All right, ahead, we have newly released body camera video of the shooting inside Joel Osteen's Lakewood Church, the latest on the investigation into that case.

Also, could we see a ceasefire in Gaza very soon? President Biden is expressing optimism it could happen potentially by Monday. What Israeli officials though, have to say about that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:26:57]

BOLDUAN: So caught off guard and surprise is generally not the position a country wants to find itself in with one of its closest allies. That is what happened with Israel and the United States with the very sensitive hostage negotiations and talks over a temporary ceasefire in Gaza.

Israel is downplaying the prospect of a deal being within reach and coming within days. This is after President Biden told reporters this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: My national security adviser tells me that we're close. We're close, but not done yet. My hope is by next Monday, we'll have a ceasefire.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: CNN's Jeremy Diamond is in Tel Aviv for us. He is joining us now.

Jeremy, do Israeli officials -- do they share President Biden's optimism here?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kate, no one seems to be sharing President Biden's optimism, at least not to the degree that he expressed it in terms of how soon he believes that a deal can be reached.

An Israeli official telling us that the Israeli government was "surprised" by the president's timeline. They don't know what the president was basing that assessment on.

And interestingly, we're also hearing some cold water being poured on this by Hamas as well. Osama Hamdan, a senior official for Hamas, saying that the leaks that have come out about the state of these negotiations about the progress that is being made, in his view, portray a false sense of progress.

Now, of course, these are both parties to these negotiations. They are posturing as much as they are giving insight into the state of those negotiations.

Qatar, for its part, which is a key mediator in these talks says that they believe that there is a positive trajectory here, but they didn't go quite as far as President Biden did. In fact, a spokesman for the Foreign Ministry, when asked about President Biden's comments, simply referred questions back to the White House on that, but they are hoping that an agreement can be reached before Ramadan, and that is the tight timeline that we are currently under as we look to see whether or not a deal can be reached.

Ramadan is less than two weeks away, and there does seem to be some significant progress being made in these talks. Based on sources that we've talked to familiar with these negotiations, the latest framework that is being discussed, would see the release of perhaps around 40 hostages over the course of about six weeks.

Israel very much pushing for that to include what they believe to be five Israeli female soldiers who are also being held by Hamas. And it's clear that Hamas has backed off some key demands, whether that is ending the war altogether, being willing to enter an initial agreement without that condition being met, and also in terms of reducing the number of Palestinian prisoners that they are demanding, but it's also clear that a deal has yet to actually be reached.

But as long as these parties are talking, and they certainly are. An Israeli delegation has been in Qatar over the last couple of days working on some of the technical details of this deal, then there is the possibility of progress, there is the possibility of reaching an agreement but whether that actually happens by Monday, which President Biden suggested, nobody in the region seems to believe it will happen that fast -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: It's good to see you, Jeremy. Thank you so much -- Sara.

SIDNER: All right, joining me now to continue the discussion is CNN military analyst and retired US Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton. It is always a pleasure to see you.

[08:30:13]