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Biden Speaks of Ceasefire; Redistricting in New York; Biden and Trump Visit Border; Fred Upton is Interviewed about Immigration; Video Released of Megachurch Shooting; FAA Criticizes Boeing's Safety Culture. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired February 27, 2024 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It will happen that fast.

Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: It's good to see you, Jeremy. Thank you so much.

Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, joining me now to continue the discussion is CNN military analyst and retired U.S. Air Force colonel, Cedric Leighton.

It is always a pleasure to see you.

You just heard from Jeremy Diamond, both Hamas and the Israeli government is pouring water on something that the president said. Sort of an off-the-cuff comment on what is happening and the negotiations with the hostages and with the ceasefire in a coffee shop.

What do you make of this? And can there be damage done if a president says something like this, like, something could happen by Monday, and the negotiations are ongoing?

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes, good morning, Sara.

I think, yes, certainly damage can be done in a case like this. But I think what President Biden was doing was trying to exert some pressure on both sides. Both sides, you know, as Jeremy pointed out in his piece, they were looking at their posturing, their ability to get the maximum that they possibly can from these negotiations. The good news is that negotiations are going on right now. The bad news, or at least questionable news, is that neither side is really ready to say that they are ready to make these agreements. So, I think both Hamas and Israel are trying to gain maximum advantage at this particular point. They're not ready to say that they've reached an agreement yet, but an agreement is still possible. Whether that's going to happen by Monday, that is definitely a question, but I think President Biden was exerting some pressure there to try to get them to do exactly that. SIDNER: I do want to ask you about this. We've just learned here at

CNN that an agreement would likely be implemented in multiple phases once an initial deal is made, and it could lead to a truce lasting for potentially as long as six weeks. How would this work if a deal is implemented in multiple phases?

LEIGHTON: Yes, it really depends on exactly what's specified within each of those phases. But normally, Sara, what you would see is something like this. The troops would -- fighting the Israeli troops would cease firing on Hamas. They would stop going after specific targets, or at least have some minimum parameter where they could go in against somebody but not against others. They would probably also withdraw from areas within Gaza. Some of those areas such as Gaza City, Rafah, of course right on the border with Egypt and the area where most people are now concentrated, and operations against Rafah would cease. So, that would be the kind of thing that I would expect to see in a situation like this.

And then, you know, with a phased withdrawal of troops, that could coincide with the phases of the agreement. And then what you would also see is an exchange hostages for Palestinian prisoners. That would be the kind of thing that I think would happen probably in like a second or a third phase of an agreement of this type.

SIDNER: So, when you're talking about these phases, I mean, I guess the ultimate question here is, if there is a ceasefire agreement, do you see there being, for example, the idea of keeping the IDF presence there in the area, or would that, you think, be completely a non- starter when it comes to Hamas' side of this?

LEIGHTON: Yes, Hamas probably wouldn't like that. On the other hand, the Israelis are insisting on something like that, or at least they have in the past. So, there could be a presence of perhaps as many as 30,000 IDF troops in Gaza. That would be a lot of troops, you know, somewhere around, what, seven or so brigades worth. And that would be the kind of thing that could potentially be a stumbling block in negotiations like this. I mean we're definitely not in the home stretch of something like this. But if the Israelis were to withdraw, there would be the possibility of, you know, some other force coming in to do this, but no other force has raised their hand to come in. No Pan-Arab (ph) force, no, you know, organization of African Unity (ph), no other Middle Eastern entity or multinational entity from the U.N. has been, you know, put forward as a possible peacekeeping force.

And that, I think, presents some difficulties at this particular point as well. That's something that should be considered. But, of course, it would be very difficult for an international force to gain a foothold in Gaza as well.

SIDNER: Colonel Cedric Leighton, thank you for talking us through a very difficult situation there.

John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: President Biden and Donald Trump headed to the southern border on the same day. New reporting on how these visits will look different.

And you hear that sound? It's Michigan talking. Voters at the polls at this very moment. What message are they sending to the presidential candidates? And what state has been Nikki Haley's favorite so far? We might ask her right here on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

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[08:39:19]

BOLDUAN: This morning, major moves in New York state politics that could impact far beyond these borders. Who controls the U.S. House of Representatives even. New York state Democrats have now seized control over drawing the state's congressional districts. And they -- after they rejected a proposed map done by a bipartisan commission.

CNN's Gloria Pazmino has the very latest here.

Gloria, you say congressional maps and people often say, pardon my yawn, but this really matters. What is happening here?

GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, Kate. This is about democracy and the balance of power and likely who is going to control the House of Representatives

The sources I've spoken to on both sides have told me they are feeling PTSD.

[08:40:00]

Here we go all over again. They have a set of maps that were drawn by an independent commission, but those maps have been rejected by the Democrats and they are in the process of drawing new maps.

Now, Republicans are likely to take them to court over it.

Why does it matter? Well, as you said, the New York congressional districts are hanging in the balance.

Now, I do just want to talk a little bit about how we got here because this is very much a redo of what we saw two years ago. The independent commission drew maps. Those maps were ultimately rejected in court as an unconstitutional gerrymander.

The special master that was assigned by the court came up with a set of maps and it will those district lines that cleared the way for Republicans to flip four seats.

So now fast forward to 2024 and the process is beginning again. The commission drew maps, submitted them to the legislature, and they rejected them last night.

So, it was high drama here when the vote took place yesterday. And the reason for that, Kate, is because Democrats now get to draw their own version of the maps. They are in the majority here in New York. And that means they are going to be able to have an edge of how they draw the districts and therefore likely have an advantage when it comes to these key congressional races this year. They're looking to shift the playing field.

And from the sources I am speaking with, they make it pretty clear, they believe the path to power of the House of Representative runs through New York. So, they want to shift the field against the Republicans, likely changing districts in Long Island in Syracuse, and even parts of the Bronx.

The Republicans promising to sue.

Whatever happens next, one thing is clear, they are running out of time. Petitioning is supposed to start here in New York today, not just for congressional seats, but all seats across the state. So, if you're trying to get on the ballot, you have to know where your district is.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Gloria Pazmino, thank you so much for that.

John.

Oh, hello, Harry.

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: Oh, hi.

BERMAN: You saying yawning at congressional district mapping. You have two guys here who like - you know, we would line up like it was a "Star Wars" movie to see the new districts.

BOLDUAN: I said that because I knew you were going to be coming up.

BERMAN: Yes. No. I mean there's almost nothing more exciting than - than congressional maps.

BOLDUAN: Super Bowl time, folks.

BERMAN: Absolutely.

BOLDUAN: Take it away.

BERMAN: Thank you so much.

A very unusual moment later this week. Both President Biden and Donald Trump will be on the U.S./Mexican border on the same day. Why?

CNN's senior data reporter Harry Enten is here to explain why are we going to see this very unusual moment on Thursday?

ENTEN: Why? Because what do Americans believe is the nation's most important problem? They believe it is immigration. The highest levels say immigration since at least 1981. Twenty-eight percent of Americans say immigration is the nation's most important problem. And you can see the trend line here. Back in August there was just 9 percent. So, we've seen a tripling percentage of Americans say that immigration is the most important problem. A record high.

And with this record high comes changing attitudes on something that a lot of people have been looking at over the past few years. Polling, a U.S. border wall with Mexico. Of course, Donald Trump has always been claiming that I'm going to build the wall. Take a look here. What do we see now? A majority of Americans agree with that position. Fifty- three percent believe that we should, in fact, have a U.S. border wall with Mexico. If you look back where we were five years ago when Donald Trump was president, it was just 42 percent. We have seen more American say immigration is a top problem, and with that we have seen changing attitudes on a very important issue in the eyes of Americans.

BERMAN: And again, I just will note, I mean this is a pretty quick change. If you're going from 9 percent in August to 28 percent now, its quick.

What's been happening over these few months that might be leading to that change in opinion?

ENTEN: Yes, what might be happening? How about U.S. border encounters. Nationwide, border encounters versus a year ago, up 11 percent in October, up 8 percent in November, up 23 percent in December. January, last month, up 16 percent from where we were in January of 2023.

I will note, crossings did, in fact, fall between December and January, but oftentimes there are seasonal patterns. When we compare it to where we were a year ago, border crossings are still rising. Border encounters, excuse me.

BERMAN: And if you're talking about pure politics, what do voters say, or who do voters say they trust more on this issue generally?

ENTEN: Yes, this is good news for Donald Trump. Better job at handling border security and immigration. Look at this margin, Donald Trump, 53 percent. Joe Biden, just 25 percent among voters. This is one of Donald Trump's best issues. This is the ground he wants to be playing on. And more and more Americans are saying it's the nation's top problem, John.

BERMAN: And if you're looking at this, anything that could backfire for Donald Trump on this issue?

[08:45:01]

ENTEN: Yes, I think a lot of Democrats say, OK, maybe, you know, immigrant voters, voters who were born outside the United States, maybe they would say, hey, maybe there will be some backlash against the Democrats. But take a look here. Choice for president among voters born outside the United States, we actually have a dead even race between Joe Biden and Donald Trump. This was a group of voters that Joe Biden did very well with four years ago, but a lot of groups of voters have been changing their minds going from Joe Biden four years ago to saying they'll vote for Donald Trump right now. That is the same case among those voters who were born outside the United States, John.

BERMAN: All right, Harry Enten, thank you very much for that.

ENTEN: Thank you.

BERMAN: With us now, former Republican congressman from Michigan, Fred Upton.

Congressman, thank you so much for being with us.

You were in Congress for a long time, including many times when everyone got close to an immigration deal only to see it fall apart. A couple weeks ago there was a bipartisan agreement that a lot of people looked at and said would make things better, yet Republicans walked away. How frustrating is that for you?

FRED UPTON (R), FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE: Well, it was really frustrating because we've got to deal with immigration. I went to the border a whole bunch of times. It needs to be bipartisan. We've got divided government. And there's a little -- little good news this morning in that Brian Fitzpatrick from Pennsylvania and Jared Golden from Maine, Republican and Democrat, have introduced some legislation that could -- actually could be -- actually be on the floor is early as next week to deal with not only Ukraine, but also the border security. It's - it's got a one-year limit on remain in Mexico, so that's something that many Americans support. It takes us through the election and lets the next president then set the gauge.

But, you know, we've got to deal with this issue. And we can't -- we can't punt the ball down the field, kick the ball down the field any longer. We've got to deal with it.

You know, Ronald Reagan -- it was disappointing that the Senate didn't pass their bill. It was disappointing that former President Trump came out against it.

I worked in the Reagan White House. And the theory back then was, if you can get half a loaf now and work to fight for the other half another day, that's a victory.

We can't let this thing languished until next year. And now we've got a proposal. "The Wall Street Journal" actually endorsed it today, I'm told, in an editorial. It could still take some -- make some changes. But it's doable. And I just hope that we get some momentum on this legislation to deal with it, perhaps as early as next week.

BERMAN: So, you brought up Ukraine. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy told our Kaitlan Collins that without new money from the United States there will be no new success for Ukraine on the battlefield. Our friend Stephen Collinson, who writes for cnn.com, said that House Speaker Mike Johnson holds the fate of a democracy in his hands. Do you agree with that statement?

UPTON: I do. And, you know, the votes are there for Ukraine. President Biden asked for money last October. We saw the fall of a major city here just in the last week or two now by Putin. The money is there. The votes are there in a bipartisan way. I'm sure that there's at least 60 or 70 Republican votes. And we know that the votes are there in the Senate. I mean look what they did a week ago when they pass their bill 70-30.

So, it's doable. And actually by combining Ukraine, this is what the Fitzpatrick-Golden bill does. By combining money for Ukraine and then helping to fix the southern border, it's a win-win. And it's got to happen. I mean we just can't wait any longer.

BERMAN: Well, they tried something like that and then, you know, they pulled back. Lucy pulled back the football over on the Senate side there.

Congressman, I will note that you don't appear to be in Michigan today. I can see the signs of withdrawal on your face from not being there.

UPTON: Yes, no -

BERMAN: But there is a primary taking place.

UPTON: Yes.

BERMAN: What signs are you looking for from the results tonight in Michigan?

UPTON: Well, I voted absentee. I'm actually speaking up at Suffolk University. I'm lecturing today and tomorrow. But I'll be back in Michigan before the end of the week.

You know, it's going to be interesting. What's happened with my former colleague, Tlaib, urging Democrats to vote uncommitted. I think they'll get a substantial number of folks do that. I don't know if they'll actually get to 10,000.

You know, we've seen in these other states a very low percentage. You know, Biden got 96 percent of the vote in South Carolina, but only 5 percent of the people voted. I don't know what the turnout's going to be in Michigan. We got some bad weather that's coming a little bit south of there. So, we'll see possible tornadoes. In Michigan, I think Nikki Haley could do fairly well. Now - but the Republicans changed the equation. So, the -- no matter what happens today in the Republican primary, it's really going to be decided at the state convention this coming Saturday. And Michigan Republicans changed the rules. So, it's winner-take-all. Well, guess what, all 83 counties in Michigan are controlled by the Trump team. And they will get probably 48 of the 55 delegates when things are all said and done.

[08:50:01]

Unlike in 2016, where if you got a third of the vote, and Kasich, Rubio and Trump did, they got a third of the delegates. In this case, 90 percent of the delegates, maybe even higher, are going to go to Trump because of the winner-take-all change.

BERMAN: Former Congressman Fred Upton, I hope Boston is treating you well. Thank you so much for being with us today. I appreciate it.

Sara. SIDNER: All right, ahead, the Houston Police Department has released

the body camera footage showing those dramatic moments officers encountered the shooter inside Texas Pastor Joel Osteen's church that happened earlier this month. What we are learning from that footage. That is next.

Also, hard questions being asked about what caused that door plug on the Alaskan Airlines flight to fly off mid-flight. Could it have been caused by a culture of safety gaps inside Boeing? Details on the investigation there straight ahead.

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[08:55:23]

SIDNER: Houston Police released body camera and surveillance footage from the shooting that left the shooter dead and her son critically injured after she opened fire in celebrity Pastor Joel Osteen's megachurch earlier this month. In the video you see the shorter, 36- year-old Genesse Moreno exiting her car and entering the church with her son. Once inside, she pulled out an AR-style rifle and opens fire.

CNN's Rosa Flores is in Houston.

Rosa, this is really disturbing video that we are seeing.

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Sara, this video is so disturbing. Let me tell you about it. It's about 24 minutes long. This was released by police. Some of the body camera video has audio. The surveillance video does not have audio. Regardless if this video has audio or not, once you see it, you'll see that it shows the horrors of this senseless shooting.

Let me take you through it.

You'll see the shooter exiting her vehicle with her seven-year-old child. The shooter has a trench coat. She has a bag. She has a long gun. And she walks into the church.

Shortly thereafter, there's gunfire.

Take a listen.

(VIDEO CLIP)

FLORES: You can hear - see and hear the chaos. The anxiety of the churchgoers on that day. And you hear more gunfire. At some point, the mother -- so, the shooter, and her child separate, because you see the child on the floor. The child is injured. And the mother is at a distance.

Now, at that point you also here in the body camera video that the shooter starts communicating with the two off-duty officers that have engaged with her, according to police. Now, in that video she - she screams that -- that somebody shot her child or killed her child, and that she has a bomb and that she has a bomb in the bag. Then there's more gunfire.

Now, at some point, then you see that the shooter is on the ground, and according to the Houston Police Department, the shooter was pronounced deceased at the church.

Now, officers are also -- and again this is part of the chaos -- they're also calling an ambulance, calling for help for the child who was on the ground. And so they're trying to get medical attention for this child, but they're also being very cautious about approaching the shooter because the shooter has just mentioned that she has a bomb in a bag. Eventually, the officers do approach the woman, and according to the Houston Police Department, there was no bomb in that bag. But you can only imagine the tense moments where these police officers are trying to help this child and giving the child medical attention, and they're trying to deal with this potential bomb in this church.

And, Sara, all of this is still under the -- under investigation according to the Houston Police Department. They do say it's still unclear who shot the child. That is still under investigation. But the police chief here maintains that it was the shooter, the mother of the seven-year-old child, who brought this child do this tragic event, and who is the person who is responsible.

Sara.

SIDNER: Yes, and we know part of that investigation must be about her mental health. Her family has taught ad nauseam about her issues as well.

Rosa Flores, and your team out there, thank you so much.

John.

BERMAN: This morning, Boeing is on the defensive as the FAA unveils a new report highlighting significant gaps in the airline's, quote, "safety journey."

With us now, CNN aviation correspondent Pete Muntean.

Safety journey, Pete. I'm not sure it's supposed to be a journey.

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Kind of typical for Boeing's non-sequiturs when it comes to what has happened recently there. This report looked under the hood at Boeing and found damning problems that critics have been worried about. The big finding from this report, so- called gaps in Boeing's safety culture. That was the fear by observers after the 737 Max 9 door plug blow out. But this report was commissioned a year ago, long before that incident last month.

This review panel from airlines, unions, and other units of safety units at other aerospace companies was brought together by the Federal Aviation Administration. The inspiration, though, was the 737 Max 8 crashes. The fatal crashes that killed 346 people abroad in 2018 and 2019.

This group found that employees on the production line at Boeing did not know how to report safety problems to their managers.

[09:00:05]

Workers also said they were concerned about retaliation for reporting issues.