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Becerra in Alabama Amid IVF Ruling; Rep. Debbie Dingell (D-MI) is Interviewed about the IVF Ruling; Ex-Phillips Consultant Admits to Fake Call; Macy's Closes 150 Stores. Aired 9:30-10a ET
Aired February 27, 2024 - 09:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:30:00]
MEG TIRRELL, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Next steps in potentially allowing IVF treatments to go forward once again. You know, this clinic right here, Alabama Fertility, as well as two others in the state, have paused IVF treatments in the wake of this ruling that really put this procedure into legal limbo.
Xavier Becerra today meeting with families and health care providers and really talking about, as you said, how this goes beyond just this state.
Here's what he told our John Berman.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
XAVIER BECERRA, HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: The fear goes beyond Alabama. A lot of families are trying to figure out, does it make sense for them to try in vitro fertilization, the thousands of dollars it costs? Will it go to -- result in nothing? What happens to contraception? Is that next? I think there are a lot of families, not just women, a lot of families who are asking, what does this mean when you have your rights taken away? When my three daughters have fewer rights than their mother, something's going on and we've got to change it. But we've got to do it at the national level because it was Dobbs at the national level which took away rights.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TIRRELL: And, guys, there are a number of states that have considered language around this sort of unborn child in terms of thinking about embryos and fetuses. Florida is one of those states. But the backlash against this situation here in Alabama has been so strong that state lawmakers have even paused legislation that would include that language just in the wake of what we've seen here in Alabama.
Sara.
SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. And you have some congressional members stumbling over how to deal with this as well.
Meg Tirrell, thank you so much for your reporting there.
John. JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, with us now, Congresswoman Debbie Dingell, a Democrat from Michigan.
Congresswoman, thanks so much for being with us.
From a political standpoint, you say that Republicans are scared to death of this IVF ruling in Alabama. What do you think they're afraid of?
REP. DEBBIE DINGELL (D-MI): Well, I am somebody -- I'm not going to get into the personal details of what I did do and where it went, but who went through trying to get pregnant. You don't know how hard it is or a woman that wants to have a child, a family, the men and woman, the husband and the wife, wanting to have a child. So, when you suddenly see the Senate Republican Campaign Committee, our own speaker of the House saying that they support IVF. They understand what they've done to women. It is the starkest and clearest example that the federal government is trying to get into a woman's personal health care and the decisions she has to make with her doctor, her family, and her religion. And they know that there are a lot of people, who like for me that want to get pregnant, what desperately to have a child, and they're going to take away one of the best hopes they have.
BERMAN: All right, what -- I do know what it feels like, and I know a lot of people -- a lot of parents around the country also knows what it feels like.
You listen to voters. You have your ear to the ground as much as any politician that I know. Are you hearing from voters in Michigan about this?
DINGELL: I actually -- in a state that's got a presidential primary today, it's been intense about a number of issues. When I -- I've been everywhere. You know how I am. Saturday I went to 14 events. Women thought that two years ago, when this was on the ballot, they had once and for all ensured that in Michigan a woman could make her own healthcare decisions. And they're very concerned about what this means. If we have a change in administration, could a national -- a national, quite frankly, and could (ph) an abortion law be passed that would prevent them from making their own personal healthcare decisions. So, they're -- they are worried about what they have to do to make sure that they can protect their rights in all ways. Simple contraception decisions.
Where -- one woman said to me on Saturday, are they going to take away my right to birth control, which I'm not taking for birth control, I'm taking for a condition that I have. So, I am hearing from women, and I think that's why you see so many Republicans, who you might be surprised, making the statements they are this week because they know women are concerned.
BERMAN: You mentioned there is a primary in your state of Michigan today, a presidential primary. And I was reading the "Politico Playbook" this morning, and their headline of their entire newsletter was, quote, "what Joe Biden has to fear from Michigan."
So, what does Joe Biden have to fear from Michigan, Congresswoman?
DINGELL: So, first of all, I don't think Joe Biden has to fear anything. I think Joe Biden is listening. I think we are a purple state. You know, I've been doing politics for a long time. I'm not old, but I'm seasoned. This state has always been a purple state. And I go back to 2000 and Al Gore and the weekend before the election he was down, he ended up winning the state and George Bush went to Florida.
[09:35:06]
And what would have happened if it had been another way. We're going to be purply (ph) till November. But unlike 2015 to 2016, when I warned people that Donald Trump could win Michigan and everybody thought I was crazy, people are listening to me.
We know what we have to do. We have to turn out our vote. So, we're going to turn out our votes. And there are communities that are hurting. Joe Biden understands that they're hurting and he's going to have to spend time with them and listen to them.
But this is a purple state. We know what we've got to do. We're going to roll up our sleeves and we're going to deliver.
BERMAN: Do you think the efforts by Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib and others in the state to have Democratic voters vote uncommitted today? How much damage do you think that will do to the president's re- election campaign?
DINGELL: You know, I have a very different attitude than everybody else does. I worked for 30 years. Our primary is today because of the work I did with Carl Levin (ph). And we believe that a state like Michigan should be one of the -- and it doesn't have to be Michigan, but a state where the issues are going to matter in November are actually the ones that are talked about in February. I think she has raised issues that are very important to her. We're talking about the issues that matter to a community that matters. And I think they're being addressed. Their voices are being heard. And that's why it's good to have a state like Michigan be an early primary.
BERMAN: You noted, you are not old, you are seasoned. There has been a lot of discussion about age in this presidential campaign, which President Biden addressed last night with Seth Meyers.
Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You've got to take a look at the other guy. He's about as old as I am, but he can't remember his wife's name.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: So, generally speaking, what are you hearing from voters on this issue of age? DINGELL: Look, I am somebody that knows Joe Biden very well. You know
that. I've spent more than eight hours with him a couple of weeks ago. He is a sharp as ever. And I want somebody who has -- he's going to be the candidate. Donald Trump's going to be the candidate. I want people to compare the two men and really think about who they want to be president of these United States.
Joe Biden is wise. He's empathetic. I think we need to let him get out there and just be Joe Biden, which you saw last night on Seth Meyers. That was, you know, he was Joe Biden and I think he bring his wisdom, his empathy, his compassion and experience to a second term.
BERMAN: Congresswoman Debbie Dingell from Michigan, thank you, as always, for being with us this morning. Appreciate it.
Kate.
KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Surge pricing for your Frosty. Wendy's revealing plans to change prices depending on demand throughout the day. The Uber model coming now for fast food.
And a street magician finds himself smack dab at the center of a political scandal involving fake Joe Biden robocalls.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:42:23]
SIDNER: All right, a former consultant for the Dean Phillips presidential campaign has admitted that he was behind a robocall that used a fake AI generated voice of President Biden to urge New Hampshire voters not to participate in that state's primary last month. That consultant, Steve Kramer, contacted this man, Paul Carpenter, a New Orleans street magician. Carpenter told CNN's Kyung Lah that he was hired by Kramer to create the fake audio. Carpenter said the calls were generated using an AI tool and it took less than half an hour to create and distribute.
I'm joined now by CNN contributor and podcast host Kara Swisher, and all around genius. I'm sorry. Her new book, "Burn Book: A Tech Love Story," is out today. It chronicles the world's most powerful players in tech and how they went from wanting to change the world to breaking it instead.
KARA SWISHER, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes. Yes.
SIDNER: Powerful words.
SWISHER: Oops.
SIDNER: Oops. Sorry.
SWISHER: Sorry.
SIDNER: I do want to talk first about the robocalls. I heard these myself when I was in New Hampshire. SWISHER: Yes.
SIDNER: They were on local news and I thought, Houston, we have a problem. If they target the right people, if they do it at the last minute, this could have a huge impact on an election.
SWISHER: Yes.
SIDNER: Why does it always seem like Congress is behind the eight ball? This is something we knew could happen.
SWISHER: Well, it's hard to know what Congress could do precisely. I mean it's always after the fact, whether its swatting, there's all kinds of digital versions of swatting.
SIDNER: Right.
SWISHER: There's all kinds of things people can do. So that -- you have to put laws in place before so that people feel like there's -- there's going to be a consequence for what they're doing. And in this case I'm surprised it took a half an hour. It will take seconds to do these kind of things and people will be able to target them, not widely necessarily, but specifically to people. And that's what's really powerful about it, that you could do it in seconds. Anybody can do it. It's off the shelf stuff.
SIDNER: Right.
SWISHER: And, you know, dirty tricks aren't new. Like, hello Donald Cigarette (ph), right?
SIDNER: Right.
SWISHER: You know, but this is a -- this is just a new way to do them at -- at scale and at speed. And -- and, yes, could. Like, at the -- at election you could say one of the candidates is dead in the morning. And then before you could figure out what happened, people could be affected.
SIDNER: Yes, it is scary stuff. And I know there are some good things that AI can do. We've talked about those. But there is a case now at the Supreme Court, Texas and Florida sort of coming after the social media giants and talking about free speech. And that big tech is hampering free speech.
SWISHER: Right. Censorship is the word they like to throw around.
SIDNER: Censorship they like to use.
SWISHER: Sloppily (ph).
SIDNER: What do you make of this case? And -- because I know that you have argued regulation has to happen.
SWISHER: That's correct. It does have to happen, but not this way. This is ridiculous. This is a bunch of conservative people who want to tell them what to do. The tech companies also have free speech rights. And it's as if you tell "The New York Times" what stories they have to write.
SIDNER: Right.
SWISHER: These are publishers. And so, this is ridiculous. This is a -- this is a faint by these conservative AGs to try to get them to be able to do anything they want and let (ph) anything.
[09:45:04]
The problem is, toxic waste flowing over these things. Not increasing it, but figuring out how to do it. There's lots of ways to do this. Privacy laws. Algorithmic transparency laws. Anti-trust laws. Liability. If they want to sue these companies for these statements, go for it in court, but these companies can't be sued. So, that is one of the issues. But this is the -- this is the most -- I hope this Supreme Court throws this out. And I think that's why they accepted it because there were some conflicting issues.
So -- and -- but there's another one coming up about whether presidential administrations can talk to -- administrations in general can talk to tech companies. And that's a problem because they could warn them. The question is, they shouldn't be able to coerce them because that's what the First Amendment says they're not allowed to do.
SIDNER: Yes. These are thorny issues that have to be worked out.
SWISHER: They are.
SIDNER: The internet and social media has been around for a very long time.
SWISHER: They have.
SIDNER: And, so far, how much regulation is there on social media?
SWISHER: Zero.
SIDNER: Right.
SWISHER: Zero.
SIDNER: Zero.
SWISHER: It actually helps them. The regulation in place, Section 230, protects them.
You know, if you have immunity, you can do anything you want. You can walk down Fifth Avenue and shoot anyone. That's really essentially what's been happening to the public that has to get this toxic waste come over it. And so I don't mind -- they should be able to do what they want, but they -- you know, Fox News had to pay almost $1 billion for what it did. They should have liability, like every other media organization. They are a media organization as far as I'm concerned. SIDNER: And one of the arguments I think at the Supreme Court is
whether or not they are publishers or they are some other entity. But they are a business.
SWISHER: They are.
SIDNER: And businesses do have the right to make some of their own rules.
SWISHER: Right.
SIDNER: I do want to ask you, you have some fascinating information in some of your book. I won't give it all away. But you argue about artificial intelligence and you say that it should kind of be treated as the government treats nuclear codes. And it just so happened that last year I was able to speak with Eric Schmidt, the former CEO of Google, who is very now invested in AI.
SWISHER: Yes, know him well.
SIDNER: About this issue of the possibility of what AI can do when it comes to something like nukes.
SWISHER: Yes.
SIDNER: Here's what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SIDNER: When it comes to war, because we talked about the fact that it can be used in war, is it more dangerous than, for example, a nuclear war, the way we think of conventional war, the worst-case scenario?
ERIC SCHMIDT, FORMER GOOGLE CEO: Well, nuclear war is horrific and any sort of large nuclear conflagration would destroy the world as we know it. You can imagine this technology, for example, active cyberattacks, attack a whole country, do it until everybody's dead, and you can imagine that scenario. You can also imagine the scenario where you say, I want to kill a million people. Show me a biological path to do it.
SIDNER: Oh my gosh.
SCHMIDT: These are the dangers that we have to make sure are not happening. We need to put guardrails and limits. People are working on these problems. We don't fully understand the solutions yet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SIDNER: I told him after that I was terrified. I said it (INAUDIBLE), that is a terrifying scenario.
SWISHER: Yes.
SIDNER: But again, with social media, they haven't done it.
SWISHER: Yes.
SIDNER: And there are real harms that people are facing. So, where the hell are they now? Like, what is happening now?
SWISHER: They're allowed to do whatever they want. And, unfortunately, no other industry is allowed this. Not -- not -- look, a -- there was a plane -- a plane thing where the door blew off.
SIDNER: That's right.
SWISHER: The plane's grounded. Investigations everywhere. People fired. People don't get fired here. Nothing happens. Teen girls have to deal with self-esteem issues that are clearly from social media. No liability. No liability anywhere.
And what Eric was talking about, essentially its Armageddon for dummies. Like, anybody could do this.
And the question is, what we put into AI is what we're going to get out. If we say we want to solve world hunger, you have no restrictions, one of the answers might be a billion people need to die. Thats logical, right? It's not -- it's horrific but it's logical.
And so we have to control what goes in the AI. We've got to do the provenance of where it comes from, what data goes in. It has all kinds of good implications and bad implications. And what has to happen this time is, the people making this have to be aware of the consequences. And one of the themes in my book is, they don't care about consequences. That don't -- they don't even not care, they don't think about them. And adults don't do that. Adults know what consequences mean.
SIDNER: Just quickly, when you say "they," are you talking about the regulators, Congress, people who make these rules?
SWISHER: No, the companies themselves.
SIDNER: The companies themselves. OK.
SWISHER: And then regulators don't do anything about it.
SIDNER: Right.
SWISHER: So, that's their job.
SIDNER: Kara Swisher, I'm so happy to have you on the show.
SWISHER: Thank you.
SIDNER: And I did pre-order your book, just FYI.
SWISHER: Good. Thank you.
SIDNER: Without telling you. Appreciate it.
All right, John. BERMAN: All right, thank you.
Have a case of the munchies? We're not judging you, we're asking how you got there. But now Wendy's might be looking to cash in, raising prices at the very moment you need them most.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:53:50]
BOLDUAN: This just in, Macy's is downsizing again, announcing plans to close 150 of its stores.
CNN's Vanessa Yurkevich has much more on this.
What did they say in this announcement? What's this about?
VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Closing 150 Macy's stores, but scaling up at some of their more profitable brands, like Bluemercury and Bloomingdales. They're going to be opening about 15 new Bloomingdales and 30 new Bluemercury stores. They have found that the brick-and-mortar lifestyle of Macy's just isn't doing as well. But people are still interested in experiencing luxury in stores. And that's why they're going to be investing in Bloomingdales and Bluemercury. But, of course, when you talk about store closures, you talk about job losses. And Macy's last month announced it was laying off more than 2,300 employees.
On the flip side, a little bit of good news. Macy's is opening 30 smaller Macy's stores. But, of course, that's a smaller footprint, fewer employees. This is all about the digital transformation and really trying to meet consumers where they are. And right now they want to shop in store for just those luxury goods.
BOLDUAN: And very different consumer story, but one that is really interesting --
YURKEVICH: Yes.
[09:55:02]
BOLDUAN: Is Wendy's announcing plans to introduce like Uber style surge pricing on its menu. What is the deal here?
SIDNER: Boo.
YURKEVICH: So, this is -- boo from Sara. But this is something that we've seen across rideshare companies, that they introduced surge pricing --
BOLDUAN: For some reason that feels like OK, except.
YURKEVICH: Yes. In the -- in the rain Lyft will and Uber will raise prices. But essentially what Wendy's is saying is that they want to try it out with their digital menus in store but also on their app, to try to capitalize consumers spending. When there is a huge rush, prices will go up. When there's not, prices will go down. But, ultimately, these are AI enabled changes. So, this is all going to be through artificial intelligence, trying to figure out when folks are coming into the stores, ordering online and when they're not.
Here's the risks, though. People hate surge pricing.
BOLDUAN: Yes.
YURKEVICH: They hate it. And so the risk is that maybe the company would experience some backlash from consumers who are already very conscious about food prices.
BOLDUAN: Yes.
YURKEVICH: Here's the thing, though. If it takes off, this is going like wildfire. Other brands are going to do it.
BOLDUAN: I don't know how you kept a straight face when you had like stink face one and stink face two this entire time.
BERMAN: Well --
SIDNER: I --
BERMAN: This is like -- feels like a munchies tax.
SIDNER: Exactly.
BERMAN: I'm just saying, I hear that --
BOLDUAN: (INAUDIBLE).
BERMAN: That people get hungry for fast food, and this is penalizing people at the very moment when there maybe weakest.
BOLDUAN: Still my favorite commercial, announced (ph) tried again with those nuggies (ph).
BERMAN: Vanessa Yurkevich, thank you very much.
YURKEVICH: Thank you.
SIDNER: Where's the beef? That was my favorite.
BOLDUAN: I like that one.
SIDNER: Thank you so much for joining us.
This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.
"CNN NEWSROOM" with Jim Acosta, up next.
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