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Key Witness Testifies Amid Effort To Boot Trump Prosecutor. Aired 3-3:30p ET
Aired February 27, 2024 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:00]
ASHLEIGH MERCHANT, DEFENSE ATTORNEY FOR MIKE ROMAN: And then we spoke after Mr. Wade called, your friend, and we talked about that as well, correct?
TERRENCE BRADLEY, NATHAN WADE'S FORMER LAW PARTNER & DIVORCE ATTORNEY: That is correct.
MERCHANT: And at that point you didn't mention anything to me about being represented by Mr. Chopra.
BRADLEY: But I didn't mention anything about Mr. Chopra or - that is correct.
MERCHANT: Yes, that was only my question.
Let's see. I'm going to show you two more texts (inaudible) ...
JUDGE SCOTT MCAFEE, FULTON COUNTY SUPERIOR COURT: All right. Ms. Merchant, we're going to do five more minutes.
MERCHANT: This is the last two questions, thank you.
MCAFEE: 3:05, I'm cutting you off.
MERCHANT: Thank you. May I approach? I'm going to show you a full text to refresh your memory (inaudible) ...
BRADLEY: Are these supposed to go together?
MERCHANT: Yes.
BRADLEY: All these are two separate dates?
MERCHANT: Absolutely different dates.
BRADLEY: Okay. All right.
MERCHANT: So I know we talked on a number of occasions where you said the text was just about the footnote. But do you recall me asking you, do you think it started before she hired him? And you said, absolutely. Do you recall that?
BRADLEY: I see that in the text message, yes. MERCHANT: Okay. And do you also recall me asking you how they would
react, if they would attack me. And you said, no, they will deny it.
ADAM ABBATE: Your Honor, objection as to speculation, as to how he thinks they will react.
MCAFEE: I think it goes to the motivations of the witness, overruled.
MERCHANT: And you told me that they will deny it.
BRADLEY: Yes, that's written in there. Yes.
MERCHANT: I just want to - one last opportunity. You're an officer of the court, correct?
BRADLEY: I am.
MERCHANT: And you're under oath today?
BRADLEY: I am.
MERCHANT: Is there any of your testimony from today or the previous days that you want to correct?
BRADLEY: That I want to correct?
MERCHANT: Yes.
BRADLEY: No, I've told you everything that you've - I've answered everything that you asked.
MERCHANT: Thank you. Oh, Judge, just so the counsel and the state can have them, the - just for the record, I can admit those few that (inaudible) ...
MCAFEE: Well, they weren't ever tendered.
MERCHANT: And, Judge (inaudible) ...
MCAFEE: So just for ...
MERCHANT: I didn't know if they wanted to use them.
MCAFEE: Go ahead.
MERCHANT: But I'll hold on to them.
MCAFEE: If they need to be tendered at some point, then we'll make them part of the record.
All right. Any - let me turn it over to Mr. Sadow, if you're with us on Zoom.
STEVE SADOW, DONALD TRUMP'S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Thank you, Your Honor. I do have a few questions.
First thing I'd like to know is whether the court reporter has defense exhibits 26 and 27 from the last ...
MCAFEE: We have a different court reporter this time. We had to have someone else fill in on such short notice. But I can potentially send those to you if you need them.
SADOW: Well, I think I have working copies, but I want to make sure that the witness has a copy to look at.
MCAFEE: All right. We can try to work through that logistical challenge. This is - you said 26 and 27?
SADOW: I believe that's correct. And 26, I think, is the same text messages that Ms. Merchant was just asking about. It was two pages. I stapled it together and it is dated January the 5th of this year.
MCAFEE: All right. I can print off a copy now, but why don't we start off with the questions that you have.
SADOW: Okay, because ...
MCAFEE: I can do it.
SADOW: ... that's where I want to start. That's where I'm going to start. But I'll see what I can do to work through it.
MCAFEE: Is that going to work? Here, I'll email them to you. Okay.
All right, Mr. Sadow, why don't we start with your question and we'll see if we actually need to get a copy of those exhibits in front of the witness.
SADOW: All right. Mr. Bradley?
BRADLEY: Yes, I'm here.
SADOW: All of a sudden, I've lost you on the screen. There we go. Well, you're on the Zoom - you're on YouTube, but you're not on the Zoom itself. But - nothing I can see.
[15:05:04]
BRADLEY: I'm here. I can hear you.
MCAFEE: Yes. No, I know. I think his visuals may be a little different. So hold on tight, Mr. Sadow. We could try to correct that.
SADOW: Yes, he was on when Ms. Merchant was asking questions.
MCAFEE: Just - we need to add a ...
SADOW: (Inaudible) ...
MCAFEE: I know, we need to add a spotlight to mister - to the witness stand and a spotlight to Mr. Sadow, and we don't need all the other boxes.
SADOW: There we go. Thank you very much.
MCAFEE: Well, then hold on tight, Mr. Sadow, we need to add you as well.
All right. Now we're ready.
SADOW: Thank you, sir.
Mr. Bradley, you have referred to Mr. Wade as your client, correct?
BRADLEY: Correct.
SADOW: You understand that the court has ruled that communications that you had with Mr. Wade are not privileged, correct?
BRADLEY: No, I'm aware that the court ruled that one specific dealing with the time frame of one specific conversation wasn't privileged.
SADOW: Then I'm going to ask, Your Honor, if it's at the limitation or ...
MCAFEE: Excuse me. The - to clarify ...
SADOW: ... (inaudible) ...
MCAFEE: ... sure. Mr. Sadow, you asked whether all communications with Mr. Wade, I think, were covered. That was not the extent of the ruling. The only ones that I deemed were not covered and that I'd asked about in the in-camera hearing because those are the ones that were relevant, were any communications Mr. Wade made regarding the existence or nonexistence of a romantic relationship with Ms. Willis.
SADOW: Fine. Thank you, Your Honor. I understand.
So going back to this line of inquiry, when you say you don't have personal knowledge, what I want to ask you to start with is very simple, did you have communications with Mr. Wade about the relationship between Mr. Wade and Ms. Willis? It's a simple yes and no.
BRADLEY: Yes.
SADOW: Okay. And is it your testimony that during the time you were representing him, which I understood started sometime in 2018, is that correct?
BRADLEY: That's the time frame that I remember, yes.
SADOW: Okay. Is it your testimony under oath that with regards to conversations with Mr. Wade about his relationship with Ms. Willis, that you only had one such conversation during the time you represented Mr. Wade?
BRADLEY: One conversation of what? I apologize, you broke off ...
SADOW: The only thing we're - I'm - the only thing I'm asking about is that area that the court said is not privileged, which is the relationship between Mr. Wade and Ms. Willis. You've testified that during the time you represented Mr. Wade from 2018 on, that you only had one conversation with him in reference to the relationship between Ms. Willis and Mr. Wade, is that correct?
BRADLEY: Yes, I think that's fairly accurate. Yes.
SADOW: Okay. So out of the entire time talking about it, it could be 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, when did you stop representing Mr. Wade?
BRADLEY: It was a few months after I left the firm.
SADOW: All right. Give me an approximate time.
BRADLEY: I left maybe June - July of 2022, maybe.
SADOW: Okay. So that would suggest that for - assuming it's 2018 - 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021 and half of 2022, which is in the vicinity of four to four and a half years, you're testifying under oath you had one conversation about a relationship between Mr. Wade and Ms. Willis. Is that correct?
BRADLEY: I don't recall having any other conversation with Mr. Wade about him and Ms. Willis.
SADOW: Is it your testimony, then, that you don't remember any other conversation or there wasn't any other conversation besides the one?
ABBATE: (Inaudible) object as to the answer ...
MCAFEE: I think he's drilling down. I think that's a fair question, overruled.
BRADLEY: I don't recall. I would say it was the one, but I don't recall.
[15:10:00]
SADOW: You testified that you did have communications with Mr. Wade about him visiting with Ms. Willis at a condo or apartment, correct?
BRADLEY: I don't think I testified that I had a conversation. I testified that any knowledge that I would have known anything about any condo would have come from that, but I don't recall a conversation about that. I do not recall a conversation about that.
SADOW: Okay. Do you recall any other thing at this point in time under oath that would indicate when the relationship started between Mr. Wade and Ms. Willis?
BRADLEY: I do not know when the relationship started between Mr. Wade and Ms. Willis. I cannot recall that. I can't ...
SADOW: (Inaudible) ...
BRADLEY: I'm sorry, go ahead. SADOW: I'm going to drill down on that now, okay?
BRADLEY: Yes, sir.
SADOW: Mr. Wade was hired as the special prosecutor on November 1st of 2021. You're aware of that, correct?
BRADLEY: I have my contracts to show when I started. No one showed me the contract of when he started, but - so - but if he has a contract for November 1st of 2021, then that's correct.
SADOW: All right. I'm going to suggest to you that the record will reflect that the contract between Ms. Willis and Mr. Wade was November 1st of 2021, correct? I want you just to accept that, okay?
Is it your testimony that you don't know under oath whether or not there was a relationship between Mr. Wade and Ms. Willis before the contract?
BRADLEY: I do not recall any dates of when the relationship started. So whether you are pinpointing a date of when his contract started or not, I'm telling you I did not recall any specific date that he flat out said anything about a relationship with Ms. Willis.
SADOW: Okay. Now I want to go, based on what you've just said, let's go to what was defense exhibit 26, okay? In defense exhibit 26, which I showed you last time, it was two pages of text messages between you and Ms. Merchant, correct?
BRADLEY: Correct.
SADOW: All right. Now, the first page starts off by saying, "Ms. Merchant, like just date, don't hire him. Do you think it started before she hired him?" You see that?
BRADLEY: Yes, I see it. Yes.
SADOW: And your response to that was absolutely, correct?
ABBATE: I'm going to object (inaudible) ...
MCAFEE: All right. So Mr. Sadow, I do think we went through a lot of these texts.
SADOW: We didn't go through this whole one.
MCAFEE: Just a second, Mr. Sadow.
All right. I'm sorry, Mr. Sadow. You said we didn't go through this particular one?
SADOW: No. We went through - we stopped right there. I want to go ...
BRADLEY: I went - I answered, because she - this is the exact language that she just stated a few minutes ago. You can read it back from the record. MCAFEE: Okay, Mr. Sadow, are you saying both of these two exhibits
weren't already covered by Ms. Merchant?
SADOW: It was not gone - this particular language was not gone into. I'm doing it based on the exhibit itself. Well, let's do it this way, I now move into evidence defense exhibit number 26.
MCAFEE: All right. And I don't have - I'd have to search through my notes, but does anyone recall, that one actually been tendered in a minute already?
ABBATE: It was.
SADOW: No, it was only presented to Your Honor for you to take back into camera ex parte to speak with Mr. Bradley and his counsel.
MCAFEE: Okay. Ms. Merchant is indicating that it was admitted.
MERCHANT: I thought Mr. Sadow admitted it, but I'm organizing of bringing them back in order, so I think it might be easier if I just admit the copies of the texts ...
MCAFEE: All right.
SADOW: I ...
MERCHANT: ... we're all referring to.
MCAFEE: All right. So defense exhibit 26 and 27 are being tendered.
SADOW: Actually, only 26 at this time.
MCAFEE: Okay. You - okay, defense exhibit 6, any objection from the state?
SADOW: Twenty-six.
MCAFEE: Twenty-six.
ABBATE: I'm going to object as it relates to foundation and authentication. It was used to - during the last hearing for the purposes of refreshing his recollection and it's - my recollection is that it didn't refresh his recollection, but I renew my objection as to asked and answered in cumulative.
[15:15:01]
MCAFEE: Okay. As to foundation and authentication, I think Mr. Bradley has recognized them as texts that he sent and received, so I think I'd overrule on that basis. Any other objections to their admissibility from any other defense counsel. And seeing none, defense exhibit 26 is now admitted, Mr. Sadow.
SADOW: Thank you.
All right, let's continue. Now I'm publishing it. After you said the word absolutely, on your
own, you said it started when she left the DA's office and was judge in South Fulton.
ABBATE: (Inaudible) ...
SADOW: They met at ...
ABBATE: ... object ...
MCAFEE: Yes.
ABBATE: Asked and answered.
MCAFEE: All right. Understood, Mr. Abbate. I'm going to let Mr. Sadow have a few minutes on this and we'll go from there, but ...
BRADLEY: Judge, I - well, I'm sorry. I did answer this. I answered it for Ms. ...
MCAFEE: I understand.
BRADLEY: ... Merchant. I stated that I was speculating. The Judge - someone objected to the speculation, and - but this was the exact same language when I said that.
MCAFEE: All right. Well, thank you for that, Mr. Bradley. Mr. Sadow is asking the question in a slightly different manner and I'm going to give him a little bit of leeway to do that. So, Mr. Sadow.
SADOW: All right. I hesitate to have to start back where I was, but after the word absolutely, you, on your own, said it started when she left the DA's office and was judge in South Fulton. They met at the municipal court CLE conference. That's what you said, correct?
BRADLEY: That is correct.
SADOW: Now, it's your testimony, at least so far, that when you, on your own, gave those two statements in the text, that you were merely speculating and did not have that knowledge from Mr. Wade. Is that your testimony under oath?
BRADLEY: Yes, that's what I testified to, yes, sir.
SADOW: So, you, on your own, came up with the whole notion that it started when she left the DA's office and was judge in South Fulton. That's - according to you, that's speculation on your part, correct?
ABBATE: Objection (inaudible) ...
MCAFEE: Overruled. Answer the question, Mr. Bradley.
BRADLEY: Yes, that's speculation on my part, yes.
SADOW: Right. It had nothing to do with what Mr. Wade had told you, correct? BRADLEY: I answered your question, I was speculating to the answer.
That is correct.
SADOW: So, maybe you can tell the court, in your own words, why in the heck would you speculate in this text message and say that it started when she left the DA's office and was a judge in South Fulton? Why would you speculate and say that in a text?
BRADLEY: I knew they had met at the municipal court conference.
SADOW: How do you know that? I'll stop you right there. How did you know that?
BRADLEY: I answered that the last - at the last - I knew that ...
SADOW: I'm asking you now ...
BRADLEY: I knew that because when ...
SADOW: ... sir, I'm asking you now. I'm asking questions and you are in a situation where you get to give answers. I'm asking you, how did you know that?
BRADLEY: How did I know when they met?
SADOW: Some people - somebody told you that, right?
BRADLEY: When they met?
SADOW: Yes.
BRADLEY: Yes, correct.
SADOW: Who told you?
BRADLEY: Mr. Wade told me when they met.
SADOW: So, you had more than one conversation about the relationship between Mr. Wade and Ms. Willis because he told you where he met her, correct?
BRADLEY: That's incorrect. Incorrect.
SADOW: It's incorrect?
BRADLEY: It's incorrect.
SADOW: But - okay, let's go back to ...
BRADLEY: He ...
SADOW: ... let's go back to the exhibit. Why would you speculate that that's when they started the relationship? What would cause you to put that down as speculation?
BRADLEY: I don't recall but why I thought that it started at that time, but I do recall that he only met her and I testified to that, that he met her in - at that conference which was in 2019.
SADOW: You knew that Ashleigh Merchant represented a defendant in this case when you were text messaging with her, correct?
BRADLEY: Yes, I did. Yes.
SADOW: And you knew that the reason she was asking you questions about Mr. Wade was because she was trying to show when the relationship began, correct?
BRADLEY: No, that's not 100 percent correct.
SADOW: It's not? What's the beginning of the text message?
[15:20:00]
The text messages ...
BRADLEY: Yes, but what messages were before this message, before she sent that?
SADOW: I can't answer that question because I don't have them. All I have is what's in front of you.
BRADLEY: Yes.
SADOW: And it said - that she says, "Do you think it started before she hired him?" So you knew, as the counsel for a defendant in this case, that Ms. Merchant was asking you specifically about the knowledge that you had regarding the timing of the relationship between Wade and Ms. Willis, correct?
BRADLEY: I mean, based on this, yes, I see what was asked.
SADOW: And in response to that, you answered directly on your own what you now claim to be speculation, right?
BRADLEY: That's correct.
SADOW: So I ask you one more time before I move to the next part of this. Why would you speculate when she was asking you a direct question about when the relationship started?
BRADLEY: I have no answer for that.
SADOW: Except for the fact that you do, in fact, know when it started and you don't want to testify to that in court.
MCAFEE: Overruled.
SADOW: That's the best explanation, isn't it?
ABBATE: This is completely (inaudible) ...
MCAFEE: Overruled.
SADOW: That's the real, that's the true explanation because you don't want to admit it in court, correct?
BRADLEY: No, I have no direct knowledge of when the relationship started.
SADOW: You - I'm not going to go back through that again. Well, if you didn't know and you were asked specifically as this exhibit shows, maybe you can explain why you wouldn't say, I don't know.
BRADLEY: Is that a question? You're asking me a question to answer?
SADOW: Oh, yes, definite question.
BRADLEY: State that again, I apologize.
SADOW: If you're being asked, as we've just gone through with this text message from Mr. Merchant ...
BRADLEY: Yes.
SADOW: ... as the attorney for a co-defendant ...
BRADLEY: Yes.
SADOW: And she's asking you about the relationship and she's clearly asking you about the timing, why wouldn't you just have said in response, I don't know when it started?
BRADLEY: I don't know why I didn't say I don't know.
SADOW: Maybe again, it's because you know what the truth is and that's why you answered exactly the way you did in defense exhibit 26, correct?
BRADLEY: No, I can't sit here and tell you that what you just stated was correct.
SADOW: What you want the court to believe and you want the rest of us to believe is that for some unknown reason, upon being asked a direct question about when the relationship started, you decided on your own to simply speculate and put it down in a text message as opposed to putting down what you actually knew. That's what you want the court to believe, correct?
BRADLEY: That was a lot. So can you break that down? I apologize. You're asking me, do I want the court to - the - just the ...
SADOW: To believe that instead of saying nothing, you decided on your own to speculate.
BRADLEY: Yes, I speculated. Yes, I've stated that I speculated. Yes, sir.
SADOW: Okay. That's what you want the court to believe, correct?
BRADLEY: That's correct. SADOW: Okay. Now, then when you go to the next page of that, okay. You
see, it starts - the best that I can see, it starts in South Fulton. Is that what you have in front of you? Second page.
BRADLEY: The second page that I have says, "That's what I figured."
SADOW: Okay. I - that may be cut off from the one that I have. The - it's - I'm looking at - my opening set - line says in South Fulton. Is that on your second page?
BRADLEY: No. So the - if you're going in order of the pages, no, neither page starts with South Fulton.
SADOW: Now, my - don't get caught up on whether it starts that way. Does the second page have a line in there that it says in South Fulton?
BRADLEY: Oh, yes. I apologize. So, yes ...
SADOW: That's fine.
BRADLEY: Yes.
SADOW: Just want to make sure that we're on the same page.
BRADLEY: Yes.
SADOW: Okay. You say, "After in South Fulton, they met at the municipal court CLE conference," right?
[15:25:01]
BRADLEY: Yes, that's ...
SADOW: You see that?
BRADLEY: Yes, that's correct.
SADOW: And then Ms. Merchant says, "That's what I figured when he was married." Is this accurate upon information and belief? Willis and Wade met while both were serving as magistrate judges and began a romantic relationship at that time. You see, that's what she said, right?
BRADLEY: No. I mean - so it says they met at municipal court CLE. The only other thing here says, that's what I figured when he was married. There's no response from me on that day. And then there's another response - I mean, I guess a question that says, is this accurate.
SADOW: Okay. That's what I just went over with you.
BRADLEY: Okay. So I don't have anything in that, is this accurate at all. I can show the court.
SADOW: (Inaudible) ...
BRADLEY: It just says, is this accurate with the question mark? I don't have anything following that.
SADOW: You don't have, after that, upon information and belief, Willis and Wade met while both were serving as magistrate judges and began a romantic relationship at that time.
BRADLEY: Okay. It's - I apologize. It goes to the next page. I apologize.
SADOW: No problem.
BRADLEY: Yes.
SADOW: I just want to make sure that you're --
BRADLEY: So, no - no, I see that now, yes.
SADOW: All right. So that's - what I just read is exactly what Ms. Merchant said to you in the text, right?
BRADLEY: Yes, that was in the text. Is it accurate upon further information? Yes, that's there. Yes.
SADOW: And, again, since you have told us that you were speculating when you gave the answer that we went over with previously, on this one, you don't say, I don't know. You simply correct her by saying, no, municipal court, right?
BRADLEY: Yes. So the - she asked, was it accurate? And I said, it wasn't accurate. No, it wasn't accurate. It was municipal court.
SADOW: Right. And when you said it wasn't accurate, it was municipal court, you didn't say, no, that's not accurate. They didn't start a romantic relationship at that time, correct?
BRADLEY: No, but I was referring to the municipal court, no, it wasn't accurate as it applied to the - I was answering the no, municipal court. Meaning, if - when she said, is that accurate, it was to the municipal court and not magistrate court.
SADOW: Okay. But you didn't say that the rest of what she asked you was accurate. You didn't say, no, that's inaccurate. That's not true. That's not accurate. You simply said the only thing that wasn't accurate was municipal court should be there instead of magistrate, right?
BRADLEY: So I was answering the question of - it was a compound question ...
SADOW: Okay, can you (inaudible) ...
BRADLEY: ... and I was answering the question of - she wrote magistrate court and I said, no, municipal court.
SADOW: Right. But it's not compound. It's one statement ...
MCAFEE: All right. Mr. Sadow ... SADOW: ... upon information (inaudible) I'm sorry.
MCAFEE: I know, that's okay. I know the feedback and the delays is - complicates things, but I think you've adequately made your point here. I don't think we need to belabor it much longer. Let's move on to the next issue.
SADOW: Okay. Thank you, Your Honor.
Mr. Bradley, prior to coming into court today, did you and your lawyer meet with anyone from the district attorney's office?
BRADLEY: No. I mean, no.
SADOW: Did your ...
BRADLEY: Not that I know - I'm aware of, no. I did not meet with anyone.
SADOW: Sorry, I cut you off.
BRADLEY: I did not meet with anyone outside of my attorneys.
SADOW: Did you have any conversation about a meeting?
BRADLEY: I did not.
SADOW: (Inaudible) conversation ...
BRADLEY: I did not.
SADOW: So you have not spoken, if I understand you correctly, prior to coming into court today, you've not spoken with the prosecutors?
BRADLEY: No.
SADOW: Right?
BRADLEY: I've not spoken to the prosecutors. I've not spoken to defense.
SADOW: Have you spoken to Mr. Wade?
BRADLEY: No.
SADOW: So as far as just getting into the courtroom today, there's been no contact or conversation in it - with any of the parties we just went over, right?
BRADLEY: There has not been any contact with defense or the state at all.
SADOW: I think I have basically just one or two more questions.
Why would you see the need to speculate when you were texting with Ms. Marchant? MCAFEE: I think we did cover that one, Mr. Sadow. In fact, that - I
think that exact question was already put to him. What would be the next one?
[15:30:00]
SADOW: Let me - I'm trying to look. Let's go to 27.
