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Texts in Fake Electors Plot; Jeremy Saland is Interviewed about Texts Released in the Fake Electors Plot; Evan Osnos is Interviewed about his Interview with Biden; Welcome Party at ISS. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired March 05, 2024 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00]

MARCHALL COHEN, CNN REPORTER: Republican electors in states that Biden actually won. We knew that he made that memo, but we didn't know this. Look at this text message that he sent to Donald Trump's top attorney in Wisconsin, Jim Troupis. He said to Jim, "Jim, can you ascend my December 6th memo to Trump lawyer Justin Clark. Messaging on January 6th being the real date is key." Focusing on January 6th. Then Jim Troupis, the Trump attorney, responded, "I have sent it to the White House this afternoon. They are the real decision-makers."

We didn't know that they had sent these materials to the White House. Very notable there, although to be totally transparent, they did not say who exactly at the White House got these materials.

But it's important, Sara, because just a few weeks later, the Trump campaign carried that plan out. In seven states across the country, the fake electors voted and they hoped that on January 6th Mike Pence would recognize the Republican electors and throw out Joe Biden's real electors.

January 6th, who was in the crowd outside of the Capitol, none other than Ken Chesebro himself. We've known this before, but we've never seen these pictures. Selfies that he took that day. There's one of him outside of the Washington Monument, which you're seeing there. And this one here, Chesebro in the red hat. That's Alex Jones behind him, the far right conspiracy theorist.

So, he was outside the Capitol that day, breached restricted grounds. He even texted someone saying that he smelt a whiff of the tear gas that day. But even after all that, Sara, he kept pushing to overturn the election. Here's a text message from two days after the insurrection, January 8, 2021, where he texted that Trump lawyer, Jim Troupis, saying that "the events of the last two days open up legal options in the states for winning rulings favorable to Trump." He thought that somehow they could capitalize on what happened to still push to their efforts to overturn the election even after January 6th.

Sara.

SIDNER: Marshall Cohen, thank you for those details.

Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's talk about this. Joining us here is former Manhattan prosecutor Jeremy Saland.

Marshall Cohen lays out -- lays it out really well. But broadly, before you jump into one of these text messages that you find most interesting, what do you think of this added all together? I mean it was like 1,400 pages of text messages released.

JEREMY SALAND, FORMER PROSECUTOR: You know, what we've heard before is a speaking indictment when some of these -

BOLDUAN: Yes.

SALAND: When Jack Smith had this indictment, laying out this narrative, and you could follow. These texts are sort of a speaking indictment of all of the backstory and how we got to where we are. And it really demonstrates that Chesebro is not some guy on the periphery. He is really embedded in this. And it starts to bring in other people. It doesn't directly have a comment with Donald Trump or message with Donald Trump saying, I know this and I should do x and y, but it's pretty damning.

BOLDUAN: You point to - and I'll read the message. You point to one of these messages from -- that Chesebro sent to Troupis that Marshall Cohen introduced us to in November of 2020. "At a minimum, with such a cloud of confusion, no votes from Wisconsin, and perhaps also Michigan and Pennsylvania, should be counted, perhaps enough to throw the election to the House."

Why does this one stand out to you?

SALAND: Because, you know, he uses a term the cloud of confusion. It's more like a fog of deceit. He has this real intention of saying, we're going to sort of throw a wrench in -- not sort of. We, in fact, are going to try to throw a wrench into this system. We, in fact, are going to try to make this confusion so we can seize control and overturn that election, not because it's based on the merits, because it's based on what we want to do.

BOLDUAN: That's really interesting.

Can I lean again on your Manhattan -

SALAND: Yes.

BOLDUAN: Your Manhattan prosecutor bona fides.

SALAND: (INAUDIBLE). Go ahead.

BOLDUAN: Happening in New York City, Donald Trump's lawyers, they sent a letter to the Manhattan DA, accusing the office of prosecutorial misconduct because they pursued perjury charges against the former CFO of Trump Org., Allen Weisselberg, we talked about this on the show yesterday, but then not going after Trump's former fixer, Michael Cohen, for they say the same conduct, perjury. Here's what they write. The DA - "the district attorney's conscious choice to ignore obvious and admitted criminal conduct by Cohen and to instead deploy unethical strong-armed tactics against an innocent man in his late 70s underscores the irresponsibility of your conduct in office."

What's going on here?

SALAND: It's very poetic. I think that it's a great job to try to lay out some story line that may not exist. I can appreciate it. I'm a defense attorney and I'm saying, you're going after my client for what appears to be similar conduct of some guy who might arguably be worse and you're using him as your actual witness at trial.

BOLDUAN: Right.

SALAND: There's going to be issues with Cohen at trial, but that doesn't mean because Cohen may have done something wrong - and, by the way, and go on and said he was still credible. You know - you know, by the way, if -- if Cohen had done something wrong in the federal case and he's purged himself and he has some issue with supervised release, that's a federal matter.

[09:35:01]

It's not - it's not DA Braggs' issue. So, DA Bragg definitely is going to have issues with Cohen when he gets up there and testifies because he has done things, and he has committed crimes. But don't conflate because one guy may have done something bad another guy could not have done something equally or worse. So, I think it holds some water, but it's absolutely an exaggeration of what really is happening.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

SALAND: Let's not let it take, you know, its own path.

BOLDUAN: And kind of this adds to the big lead up to what is going to be this first criminal trial for Donald Trump.

SALAND: Absolutely.

BOLDUAN: That's going to kick off in what, we're at two weeks at this point as we're looking - as we're looking at the calendar.

SALAND: Yes, that's a couple weeks.

BOLDUAN: IT's good to see you, Jeremy.

SALAND: You as well.

BOLDUAN: Thank you so much.

So, happy Super Tuesday, everyone, for all who celebrate. It's the biggest day of the 2024 calendar election -- election calendar so far. Voters in 16 states, one territory, having their say today.

And if you were thinking about heading to Miami Beach for spring break, you may need to think again. The city says that it's breaking up with spring-breakers.

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[09:40:43]

BERMAN: All right, this just in. Taylor Swift is urging people to vote on this Super Tuesday. As everyone knows, Taylor Swift was born in West Reading, Pennsylvania, in 1989, but she was raised in Tennessee, which is a Super Tuesday state, and is voting today. In Taylor Swift's tweet, which she sent out to her tens of billions of followers, suggest that people do go out and vote on this Super Tuesday. Very much part, if not the biggest part of the primary season.

The major candidates, though, beginning to look forward to the general election. Just a short time ago, Donald Trump did an interview where he said he's not focused on Nikki Haley at all anymore. He's focused exclusively on Joe Biden.

And you get the sense that President Biden, too, is focused very much on Donald Trump. That is what you get if you read this stunning new profile of President Biden that just came out in "The New Yorker," written by our friend Evan Osnos, called "The Last Campaign."

And joining us now is Evan Osnos.

Evan, great to see you. Thank you so much for being with us.

A very revealing profile. And what's interesting in that, "Axios," this morning, says that President Biden is engaged in this new trigger Donald Trump strategy. You picked up on something like that as well. Explain.

EVAN OSNOS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, it really struck me, John. In the course of our interview, he described Donald Trump over and over, four times, as a loser. He said losers who are losers are never graceful. I mean it was a very specific word choice.

I think we know Donald Trump has had this agonizing relationship to the reality of having lost the 2020 election. And that gets into his head in a way that very few issues do. And Joe Biden is going straight at that issue. I thought "Axios" had it right today when they called it a trigger Trumps strategy, go for the jugular, because that will resonate with him.

BERMAN: And you say, you can't get into Joe Biden's thinking and state of mind without getting to the issue of Donald Trump. So, what space does Donald Trump occupy in Joe Biden's thinking right now?

OSNOS: You know, I think that for a long time, John, there was a piece of Joe Biden had felt like Donald Trump, as a person, as a political fact, was so offensive to Biden's notion of American politics that it was almost impossible for him to process. He thought, this is a guy who I'm going to contend with in 2020, but then normalcy will be restored. That was kind of at the core of his thinking about this country. He's come to terms with the fact that actually Trump represents a

phase in American life, and it is completely entwined with Joe Biden's life in a way he never could have imagined. After all, he's been in politics 51 years, been in Washington, and it never occurred to him that his legacy, his biggest bet on himself, would be intwined with this man. And I think for that reason, John, it's very personal for him to show that, in fact, his vision of the country is the right vision, the dominant vision, and that Trump's is an aberration. It's a strange detour from who we are as people. He said this line in a speech that I attended not long ago where he said, the question is not, who is Donald Trump. We know who he is. He said the question is, who are we? And I think that's going to be the theme that you will hear many, many times between now and November.

BERMAN: How does that shape his thinking in terms of how he views the Republican Party? Because that seems to have changed as well.

OSNOS: Yes, that's a big change. I was really - this caught my attention. Four years ago, when I interviewed Biden during the 2020 campaign at his home, he said, look, I really do think there will be a kind of epiphany among Republicans. If Donald Trump is driven out of the White House, Republicans will come to their senses. He didn't use that expression. But what he meant was that they will meet with me and make deals.

And he said to me this time, and this is a big idea, he said, the Republican Party is gone. He said it's no longer just that Donald Trump has taken over the party, the Republican Party is gone. That is a big strategic decision about whether or not you think you can work with them to make deals in a second term.

[09:45:00]

I didn't hear much from him. The Joe Biden of four years ago thinking, you know, I'll find my - my spots. He had his moments in the first term when he could do that. He has no illusions that that is possible now with a speaker like Mike Johnson that can't even bring his own caucus around on a border deal that Republicans themselves were authors of.

BERMAN: The State of the Union Address, obviously, is Thursday night. A huge moment for President Biden where a lot of people think he needs to accomplish quite a bit as they really kick off this next stage of the campaign. Who behind the scenes, and you spent a lot of time, not just with the president, but with people behind the scenes, Evan, who can tell President Biden the blunt truth? Who does he listen to, if anybody?

OSNOS: You know, he has a core group of advisers, a few of whom have said to him over the years at very decisive moments things that moved history in important ways. Take somebody like Mike Donilon, a really influential and important figure in the White House. In many ways he's his - he's his message mister. The one who figures out, how do we take Bidenism as a concept and put it into language. Mike Donilon had been a huge supporter of Joe Biden running for president in 2016. Really believed it was a good idea back when it was the end of the vice presidency. At the end, though, after the death of his son Beau, it was Mike who said, look, I can see it on your face, this is not a good idea. And, of course, Joe Biden did not run that year.

There are some people around him who he does -- he really listened to. And right now, in this moment, before the State of the Union, one of the things that they are deciding is, how much can we hit the Republicans on - on issues like the economy? And that is an area where they see tremendous opportunity. And I think you're going to hear a lot about that on Thursday night.

BERMAN: Evan Osnos, always great to speak with you. I have to tell you, everyone in the office the last 24 hours just pouring over every word in this profile because, as I said, it was so revealing. Thank you so much for being with us this morning.

And, Sara, from Colorado, where people are voting here in-person, and in the drop boxes, which we showed you all morning, I'm going to throw it back to you.

Sara.

SIDNER: Thank you, John.

In zero gravity, where you don't get visitors often, this is the kind of welcome you get apparently I happy entanglement on the International Space Station, even as their astronauts countries are enemies on the ground.

Plus, it's a part of television history, and it's just been sold on eBay. So, how much does one pay for the famous booth from "The Sopranos" final episode? We'll have it, coming up.

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[09:52:02]

SIDNER: On our radar, this is crazy video. Investigators in Nashville looking into a tragic plane crash that killed five people. The small aircraft had alerted John C. Tune Airport's control tower to an engine and power malfunction, urgently requesting clearance for an emergency landing. The airport granted permission for a runway landing, but the pilot sent this one final message.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PILOT: My engine shut off. I'm at 1,600. I'm going to be landing. I don't know where.

ATC: Charlie, Foxtrot, Bravo, Whiskey, Hotel, I'm declaring an emergency. If you have the airport in sight, straight in runway 2, straight in runway 2 at Johnson. Do you have the airport?

PILOT: Yes, I have the runway in sight.

ATC: November 5 Alpha Tango, runway two, runway two, clear to land.

PILOT: I'm too far way, I won't make it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: Oh, that's hard to listen to. Eyewitnesses say the plane simply exploded on impact. Fire crews managed to put out the fire. The National Transportation Safety Board will investigate the crash.

This is just in, at least one person has died now in Michigan after that massive industrial fire outside of Detroit. While the investigation is still preliminary, officials suspect that the 19- year-old was hit by debris from the explosions that carried out a mile. The facility housed more than 100,000 vape pens. And while officials now say air quality is no longer a big concern, additional explosions on the site are still possible. They're asking people to stay away.

The legendary booth from "The Sopranos" finale just snagged more than $82,000 on eBay. Both seats, the table and even the sign that says "reserved for the Soprano family" were included. They should be for $82,000. But the infamous jukebox, though, was not part of the package. The iconic booth was put up for auction by owners of Holsteins Ice Cream in Bloomfield, New Jersey. They're currently renovating the ice cream shop.

Kate, that's a good way to kind of pay for some of those renovations, don't you think?

BOLDUAN: It sure is. I still have trouble with that last episode of "The Sopranos" still to this day.

SIDNER: Yes.

BOLDUAN: OK, friends, we now have exclusive new video of how John and Sara welcome me to the studio every morning.

SIDNER: That's exactly - that's right.

BOLDUAN: This love fest is actually -

SIDNER: Accurate.

BOLDUAN: A party at the International Space Station. Almost as unbelievable as what I just said. As a new crew -- as a new crew members arrived to the ISS. This now means, with this joyous party, that there will be 11 people up on the International Space Station for a bit.

CNN's Kristin Fisher has much more on this.

I just want to be this loved when I arrive at work.

KRISTIN FISHER, CNN SPACE AND DEFENSE CORRESPONDENT: Kate, you would be this excited to if you were up at the International Space Station and you never got to see any new humans. I mean a new crew arrival up there is a big deal. And I should also note that three of the four members of this new crew that arrived very early this morning called Crew-8, they were rookies.

[09:55:04]

So, you know, they'd never really flown in space before. They were quite literally getting their sea legs as they were wrapping them around some of the other members that were already on board the space station.

But, look, they're excited to see each other. They work hard to get there. And, you know, this crew, Crew-8, they launched from the Kennedy Space Center on a Falcon Nine rocket about a little over 24 hours ago now. And they've actually earned the nickname -- the official name is Crew-8. Their nickname is "Crew Late" because, haha, they -- the first launch scrubbed due to weather.

So, they made it to the International Space Station in one piece. They're going to spend about six months up there conducting scientific experiments, whatnot. And, Kate, I'll leave you with this, there's also a Russian cosmonaut onboard that crew. And he'll be joining three other Russian cosmonauts up there as well. So, just a reminder that the space station continues to function despite all the conflict happening here on earth in regards to Ukraine.

BOLDUAN: It's amazing. I mean it's -

FISHER: You guys are still giggling about the -- I shouldn't have ended with that. I should have ended with a hug.

SIDNER: I'm like, I - it's - it's - it's OK.

BOLDUAN: You can. We can learn so much from space on so many level.

SIDNER: It's so beautiful. Oh, Kate, it's been such a - see, she ran away.

BOLDUAN: If I didn't have a -

SIDNER: She ran away.

BOLDUAN: No, no, I was going to jump and leap and koala you except that I realized I'm still recovering, but that comes later.

SIDNER: See, this is how we are normally. That -- that was just totally normal, everyday activities.

FISHER: Yes.

BOLDUAN: This is - this is why John went to Colorado. He knew this was coming and he ran away. Now I understand.

SIDNER: He wanted none of this. Thank you.

BOLDUAN: All the time. He never done.

SIDNER: But thank you for joining us.

This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

"NEWSROOM" with Jim Acosta up next.

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