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Soon: Uvalde City Council To Release Report On Police Response To Robb Elementary Shooting; NTSB Rips Boeing Over Missing Door Plug Documents; Analysis Shows Maine Mass Shooter Had Traumatic Brain Injury. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired March 07, 2024 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00]

BRETT CROSS, SON KILLED IN UVALDE SCHOOL SHOOTING: I do fear that the city won't do anything about these officers.

You know, it's been two years and there's been countless information out there that, you know, we have learned and we have seen that they have not acted upon.

So I -- you know, I want them to remove these guys from their positions, but it's not something that I have hope for.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Brett, when that Department of Justice report came out earlier this year, just to reiterate for our viewers, it found that the massacre could have been stopped sooner if law enforcement had intervened.

I'm wondering, did you see any change come as a result of that report?

CROSS: No, not at all. I mean, the only thing that we got directly after it was a grand jury, but I believe that that was just because the DOJ report came out.

Other than that, I haven't seen any changes. These officers still walk around like they did nothing. You have officers that just won reelection for constables and everything. So it truly is baffling.

SANCHEZ: I did want to ask you about those elections. There was a lot of frustration as a result of them after Tuesday night when many of these folks were re-elected.

Why do you think your neighbors keep supporting folks that you yourself have come out in the said should be held responsible for what happened and for the inaction that allowed more death to take place?

CROSS: I honestly believe it's because their children walked away from school that day. I think that many minds would have been different. you know, had it been otherwise.

And I don't wish that on anybody, but they have to see and realize that these cops failed us and our children. Do they really think that they're going to protect them and save their children? Because in America, it's not a matter of if it's going to happen, it's a matter of when. And for somebody to write off Uvalde like it won't happen again is completely insane.

SANCHEZ: We've spoken before, and I know your frustration well. You were at a heated exchange. You were part of a heated exchange at a county commissioners' meeting last month and you wound up getting arrested.

Do you want to tell us what happened?

CROSS: Yes. So I -- you know, we go up to these county commissioner meetings -- because Mariano Pargas was the acting chief of police that day, is a county commissioner.

So we go up and we speak under payroll so that we can address the fact that our taxes should not go to pay his salary.

And what I said was, you know, he had gotten information that eight to nine children were still alive, and then he walked the "F" away. And the judge came at me saying, if I was going to speak, I had to watch my language.

And it's infuriating because they're more worried about my language than they are the fact that they're sitting next to a guidance that could have saved kids and didn't.

So I said - language -- my child is "F"ing dead. And I ended up in cuffs -- cuffs before I even realized it.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

Brett, it doesn't sound like you have much faith that, even with the grand jury stuff that's happening, even with this report that's coming out in about a half an hour or so, that anything is really going to change and that you're going to get the justice that you're looking for.

CROSS: Exactly. But here's the thing with that. I want them to prove me wrong. I want them to make a liar out of me.

With me saying that I don't think they're going to do anything, prove me wrong. Do something about it. Show us that you care more about our children than you do your positions and your paychecks and your buddies.

SANCHEZ: The other thing I was wondering about, Brett, I remember at the time when the DOJ report came out, you spoke up about the way that some members of your community had approached you and the encounters that you'd had at the grocery store and other places around town when you felt that people were avoiding you for speaking out.

Has any of that changed now that the DOJ report came out and that this report is coming out? Do you think that that they might see you in a different light? CROSS: You know, I've had a couple of people come up to my wife and I

and tell us that, you know, they didn't realize or that they just didn't know, and then that they change their mind.

But the vast majority of this community hasn't. I mean, you solve the poll results. You saw Emanual Zamora (ph). You saw Max Doorfinger (ph) re-elected. These people do not care. And it's very unfortunate.

Because had it been their children, we would be fighting just as hard for them.

SANCHEZ: Brett, we've got to leave the conversation there. Brett Cross, thanks for sharing your story and Uzi's story as well.

[14:35:04]

CROSS: Thank you so much.

SANCHEZ: Of course.

Stay with CNN NEWS CENTRAL. We're back after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:39:57]

SANCHEZ: The NTSB is pretty upset with Boeing. They are slamming the jet maker for not cooperating in the investigation of that terrifying door plug blow out on a 737 Max while it was in the air.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Yes. That's right. And while testifying Wednesday to Senate hearing, NTSB chief, Jennifer Homendy accused, Boeing just ignoring repeated requests for records related to assembly line workers and for documents on who removed, then re-install this door plug that blew out on that Alaska Airlines jet.

We have CNN aviation correspondent, Pete Muntean, here with more.

Pete, what does Boeing have to say for itself? Because it seems like these should have turned over these documents.

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Well, the real question here is why these documents did not get turned over to the NTSB in the first place. And if these documents even exist. What is worse, is the question that the NTSB chair is asking.

And all of this goes back to the door plug blowout on Alaska flight 1282, back on January 5th. The NTSB said in its preliminary report that Boeing did repairs to the fuselage back in September at the factory, at Boeings factory in Renton, Washington.

Repair work was done near the door plug on some rivets. The door plug had to be removed for that work. And the NTSB says they re-installed the door-plug at Boeing, but not the four safety critical bolts that hold the door plug in place on the side of the airplane.

Alaska Airlines took delivery of that plane in October, did 154 flights after that.

The NTSB wants to know who did that work, and who was responsible for putting those bolts back in?

The NTSB has asked for the documents showing that. And NTSB Chair Jennifer Homendy told Congress yesterday a pretty stunning public notice that Boeing had not given them the documentation of that and has not provided a list of who did the work.

Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENNIFER HOMENDY, NTSB CHAIR: We don't have the records. We don't have the names of the 25 people that is in charge of doing that work in that facility. It's absurd that, two months later, we don't have that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MUNTEAN: Absurd. That's the key sound bite.

And after the hearing, Boeing said it did fulfill that employee list to the NTSB.

In a statement saying, "We have now provided the full list of individuals on the 737 door team in response to recent requests with respect to documentation."

And this part is key.

"If the plug removal was undocumented, there would be no documentation to share."

Pretty cryptic kind of legalese line there. Was there documentation. The NTSB says there should have been documentation for such significant work.

And the real question is, was there even documentation in the first place? And so that is really the big problem here. And that is what the NTSB wants to know.

If there was not, that may signal a bigger problem at Boeing.

SANCHEZ: That could be a significant lapse.

Pete, you have a model here with us. It's not an emotional support --

(CROSSTALK)

(LAUGHTER)

SANCHEZ: -- emotional support animal support, 737.

MUNTEAN: Yes. Yes

SANCHEZ: There's a new finding? MUNTEAN: The issue that we just found out today, and we first heard about this in an NTSB report on -- about an incident on February 6th, is an incident onboard a 737 Max-8, not a Max-9, like was most recently in this door plug incident.

And the issue was that the rudder pedals became stuck on a United Airlines 737 Max-8 as the plane was coming into land. The rudder controls the yacht (ph) of the airplane, how it turns side to side. You can kind of see it there.

The rudder moves on the tail. It moves the tail left and right. It moves the nose left and right.

If the rudder pedals are stuck, that's a pretty serious finding. And the big issue here is that United mechanics were able to replicate this issue again, three days later after this incident.

And so what -- what the NTSB is saying here is that there needs to be deeper investigation into this most recent case. There's really just there's only more trouble for Boeing.

And really underscores that there may be some sort of deeper issues here with the Max.

They do point out that the thing that may have caused this was an actuator in the autopilot system on the airplane that's connected to the rudder. That's built by a company called Collins.

I've reached out to Boeing and Collins about this. They think essentially these could stiffen up in the cold and cause the rudder to sort of stiffened up making into the pilots can actuate.

So this is a key flight control system. You need these in order to land the airplane and steer the airplane as you're coming into land. And then also on the ground.

SANCHEZ: Yes, hopefully, not used to steal the airplane.

(LAUGHTER)

KEILAR: Hopefully, not.

I still can't get over the lack of documentation though.

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: I had a new garbage disposal put in my sink. There's documentation. Every day we get our makeup done here, there's documentation.

MUNTEAN: You know --

KEILAR: There's documentation of this.

MUNTEAN: You know, I'm fortunate enough to own and operate an airplane. And there's a stack and stack of binders that come with my little airplane to kind of keep the logs --

(CROSSTALK)

MUNTEAN: -- of everything that we do when it comes to maintenance.

But especially on a commercial airliner, there there's so much documentation. And really the plane kind of can't leave the ground, the joke is, without mountains of paperwork.

[14:45:01]

And so the issue now is whether or not Boeing had the protocols in place to document that line by line. Boeing says that they're just simply may not - essentially, they cryptically say, but they don't say this outright. They're just simply may not be documentation.

And so if they did not have that document, they did not have that record, they wouldn't have the ability to give it over to the NTSB.

KEILAR: That is bad.

Pete -- that's my expert opinion.

Pete Muntean --

(LAUGHTER)

KEILAR: -- thank you so much for that.

And now to some of the other headlines that were watching this hour.

CNN has learned that Republican congressman and former White House physician, Ronny Jackson, was demoted by the Navy back in 2022 after a scathing report from the Defense Department.

It found that Jackson drank on the job while he was the White House physician, that he routinely screamed at subordinates and acted inappropriately.

Jackson served under both Presidents Trump and Obama before running for Congress in 2019.

SANCHEZ: Also, Alabama has a new law aimed at protecting IVF patients and providers from the legal liability imposed on them by a controversial state Supreme Court ruling.

Its legislature and governor passed the bill into law after the court ruling. A lot of people trying to have babies through IVF in limbo.

And there's a new alert for you about cinnamon. The FDA says that several brands of ground cinnamon have dangerously high levels of lead in them .

The brands come from six distributors and are sold at discount stores. If you have them, the FDA advises you throw them out. You can find more details at CNN.com. Coming up next, researchers looked into the mind of a killer literally. And what they found in his brain could help explain his actions leading up to a mass shooting.

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[14:51:06]

KEILAR: The man responsible for Maine's deadliest mass shooting suffered from a traumatic brain injury, a significant one. That's according to brain tissue analysis by researchers from the Boston University CTE Center.

The shooter, an Army reservist and certified firearms instructor, was found dead of a self-inflicted gunshot wound after a two-day search. He had been hospitalized and ordered to undergo a psychiatric evaluation just months before the October 2023 deadly shooting that claimed 18 lives.

Chris Nowinski is joining us now. He's a neuroscientist and founding CEO of the Concussion Legacy Foundation.

And, Chris, these things are always so important, I think, because we're looking for answers.

And this is a report that tells us some things, that concludes that, quote, "The brain injury likely played a role in the changes in behavior of the shooter in the months before the attack."

He, of course, was paranoid and delusional. What kind of behavioral changes would you normally see with this sort of injury?

CHRIS NOWINSKI, NEUROSCIENTIST & FOUNDING CEO, CONCUSSION LEGACY FOUNDATION: Well, when you have profound damage to the white matter, like he had, it really depends on where that damage is.

So no two people respond to traumatic brain injuries in the same way. And so what you mentioned, paranoid delusions are -- we have seen that before in situations like this. And here to see changes in cognition, going to see changes in emotion. And it really can be quite profound.

KEILAR: The investigators here found significant degeneration, axonal and myelin loss, inflammation, and small blood vessel injury in the brain.

The shooter, it's important to note, had been an instructor as an Army hand grenade trainer. He'd been at a range there doing that. And we're talking about exposure to thousands of grenade detonations over the course of his time.

This was found to have a traumatic brain injury result, but not the neurological disorder, CTE. What does that tell you?

NOWINSKI: Well, CTE is more commonly seen in sports, although it has been seen in veterans exposed to blasts. But you can look at CTE in this situation is just another type of evidence of these repetitive traumatic exposures, whether it's a hit to the head or whether it's a blast.

So when we look at this, we try not to say that any finding in a brain study is going to be the explanation for something like this.

But it's also important to realize that when we try to understand these sorts of horrible events, we often will say, look, an emotional trauma was the reason there was the breakup or there was bullying.

We'll talk about people being on drugs that has changed the way their brain has functioned.

Traumatic brain injury, both changes the structure and function of your brain.

And so when you look at a situation like this, we need to consider that traumatic brain injury might be that first domino that started leading to the events of that day.

KEILAR: In the case of football, I think we didn't know for a while, maybe there was a suspicion, but for a while we didn't know how bad some of the effects of football could be on the brain.

What is the takeaway here for the military? Because there are a lot of people who do this kind of training.

NOWINSKI: I think, as a culture, we've ignored traumatic brain injuries for too long, and especially the ones on the mild and were -- were not knocked unconscious.

So when I played football at Harvard, we would get hit in the head all the time. You saw stars. We never really thought twice about it.

And I imagine, from talking to veterans, it's sort of the same situation in the military that, if you can get up and keep going, you do.

And now we need to start understanding that the repetition of those events that don't knock us out, that don't cause anything we can see, can still cause degeneration in the brain over time.

And so we need to start understanding where this is happening and where we can minimize it and protect people the best we can.

I know this has been a discussion that's been happening in the military for now more than a decade. But I think those changes -- you know, this is a reminder that those changes need to happen faster so that we don't keep creating this same problem that we now know looking back is preventable.

[14:55:10]

It's different than the military. Obviously, we do still have the -- our veterans. The military still have to train on dangerous weapons. But now the question is, well, how much? What's the right level that will still protect the brain? They're having the same discussion, whether it's grenades or whether it's artillery.

We now have a new understanding that those lower -- lower-level hits we used to ignore are actually contributing to brain damage.

KEILAR: Yes, it's such --

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: -- an important conversation. Yes. And some people. It's such an important conversation we need to keep having.

Chris, thank you so much for explaining that to us. We appreciate it.

And, ahead on CNN NEWS CENTRAL, the president facing perhaps the most critical speech of his presidency so far. His State of the Union address just six hours away. We'll have more on his speech after a quick break.

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