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Blinken Attends NATO Meeting; Warning Signs from Wisconsin Primary; Voters Oust Councilman in Oklahoma; James Jeffrey is Interviewed about the Aid Worker Deaths; DHS Reviews Microsoft Email Hack; FDA Clears First Digital Treatment. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired April 03, 2024 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[08:32:57]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: The country's largest egg producer is culling more than 3 percent of its flock. It comes after a positive test for bird flu at a Texas facility belonging to Cal-Maine Foods. Separately there have been bird flus testing positive all over the country, at a poultry facility in Michigan, and several dairy facilities as well. The USDA says the threat to people remains minimal.

BERMAN: So, for the first time, Taylor Swift is joining Forbes' billionaires list. Her record-breaking Eras Tour became the first tour in history to gross more than $1 billion. And Swift experts tell me this morning that she is the first musician to become a billionaire solely based on her songs and performances, without relying on outside business ventures. So, there's that.

For those who cannot physically see Monday's total solar eclipse, there is now an option to hear it. Instead, Harvard researchers developed a device called light sound, which converts light from the sun into musical tones. Listen.

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BERMAN: "Smithsonian" magazine reports it was first used on a smaller scale during the eclipse in 2017.

Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: That is really cool. Wow.

Happening also right now, Secretary of State Tony Blinken is meeting with NATO foreign ministers in Brussels. And the NATO secretary general is saying today that the alliance needs to commit more support from its own for Ukraine and rely less on contributions. That's as - as for Ukraine's NATO membership, the NATO chief said, quote, "it is a question of when not if."

CNN's Nic Robertson is watching all of this. He has more for us.

An important moment for NATO leaders, NATO foreign ministers - NATO ministers to be meeting right now, Nic.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Sure, it's the 75th anniversary. The next big meeting will be the leaders meeting in Washington. So, this kind of tees that up. It's the first meeting where you have Sweden, so 32 members of NATO now.

[08:35:02]

And a very ambitious meeting. There be some wrangling, of course.

But what Jens Stoltenberg is talking about is another dynamic. Shifting the dynamic of funding for Ukraine. Multiple reasons for this. But fundamentally, what countries like the United States, other NATO members, which, by the way, provide about 99 percent of the military support going to Ukraine, what they've been doing is dipping into their own inventories and getting rid of stock. We heard, you know, about the French over the weekend sending several hundreds of their - of their used armored fighting vehicles.

So, what's required is, according to Stoltenberg, is a really serious commitment over a number of years. Five years is what he's talking about. A figure of $100 billion he wants to be committed for that five-year period so that Ukraine can plan the war, so that arms manufacturers can open new production lines and know that there's a long-term commitment for - you know, to keep producing the - the artillery shells, for example, that Ukraine is in short supply of. Some people are interpreting this, this five-year $100 billion plan as Trump proofing NATO and Ukraine against the possibility that Donald Trump gets - gets reelected. There's that. But as I say, that won't be plain sailing to get the draft and get - and get everyone on board with this.

BOLDUAN: Nic Robertson, great to see you. Thank you so much, Nic.

John.

BERMAN: All right, this morning, counting votes in four states that had presidential primaries. Yes, Donald Trump easily won in Connecticut, New York, Rhode Island, Wisconsin, but Nikki Haley took more than 10 percent of the vote in each contest. The same Nikki Haley who dropped out a month ago.

CNN's senior political analyst Ron Brownstein is with us this morning. There's been a lot of talk about how President Biden has been having a little difficulty in the primers in terms of small percentage of votes going against him. But here's Donald Trump in a completely cleared fields still shedding ten to 15 percent. What does that tell you?

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, they're each dealing with fractured coalitions. You know, I mean, the Haley vote is kind of zombie Haley vote after she has left the race, has been heavily concentrated among the kind of voters who have resisted Trump from the outset and where Republicans have retreated the most in the Trump era and they're mostly white-collar suburban voters who probably agree more with Republicans on economic issues and other issues, maybe immigration and crime, but find Trump unacceptable as a - kind of an affront to their values and potentially a threat to democracy itself.

And that's where Biden has to go to try to offset what we're seeing in polls in terms of an erosion from 2020, particularly among non-white voters evident again in these new "Wall Street Journal" swing state polls today.

BERMAN: Ron, do you have a sense of which dissenting group is most getable for which opposing candidate. In other words, are the ten to 15 percent of people still voting against Donald Trump more getable for President Biden than the 10 percent or so voting uncommitted against President Biden, getable for Donald Trump?

BROWNSTEIN: I think the uncommitted for President Biden are likely third-party voters. I mean they are dissenting at Biden from the left, unlikely to end up with Trump in the end. And by the way, I would note that last night in Dane County, Wisconsin, which is Madison, which is now eclipsing Milwaukee as the state - as the county providing the biggest margins for Democrats in the state, 15 percent of voters voted, in effect, uncommitted in - as part of the protest against his posture on Gaza, which increasingly appears to be really tearing apart the Democratic coalition.

I think Trump's voters, as I said, are mostly - the Haley voters that are persisting are the white-collar voters where Trump has had the most problems. They're pretty negative on Biden. Also, from my experience, talking to Haley voters in New Hampshire and South Carolina. So there may be a limit on how many of them he can attract. But that, as I said, is certainly the most obvious pool of voters where Biden can go to offset what seems likely to be defections and his own camp among younger voters and non-white voters.

BERMAN: You've been focusing quite a lot on Michigan, Ron. What do you see there?

BROWNSTEIN: Yes, you know, John, if you rank the states in 2016 and 2020 from the most Democratic to the most Republican, each time Wisconsin was the tipping point state. It was a 270 Electoral College vote for Trump when he won. It was the 270 Electoral College vote for Biden when he won.

And I started the year assuming that it was going to be the tipping point state again. But if you look at the polling consistently, it's moved slightly toward the Democratic side of the line, as I said, largely because of these astounding Democratic margins that they are posting with increasing vote shares in the area around Madison,

Michigan now seems like the state that is right at the 270 Electoral College vote. You know, Biden can lose his sunbelt breakthroughs of Arizona and Georgia and even Nevada, and he can win nonetheless if he, you know, reassembles the blue wall states of Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, plus this one Electoral College vote in Omaha.

[08:40:14]

Pennsylvania and Wisconsin look decent for Biden in his difficult, you know, national polling this spring. But with - but Michigan is tough. And it's not only the discontent over Gaza, it is the possibility of depressed black margins and turnout in Detroit and Trump's big push at white, blue-collar workers around the idea that the EV transition is going to sink the domestic auto industry. That seems to me right now the state where Biden may have the toughest climate is the weakest link in the blue wall and is the one where they are going to have to figure out how to reassemble the coalition.

The irony, of course, is that of the three blue wall states, it's probably moved the most back towards Democrats since 2016. Gretchen Whitmer just won by a double-digit margin. But for Biden personally, it looks like the toughest of the three. And those three looks like a better bet right now than the sun belt.

BERMAN: And look, for Joe Biden in 2020, he won Michigan by well over 100,000 votes.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes. Yes, he did.

BERMAN: Which is a different story than the other swing states.

Ron, what do you see every day from the Biden campaign that shows you that they're acutely aware of this?

BROWNSTEIN: Yes, I mean, look, they spend a lot of time in Michigan. I'm sure they are spending a lot of money in Michigan.

But, you know, ultimately there are choices that Biden is making. I mean, you know, if you look at polling now, 75 percent of Democrats say they oppose the Israeli military action in Gaza, 65 percent roughly say they oppose further aid. And in a recent Quinnipiac poll, 5 percent of Democrats said they had a favorable opinion of Benjamin Netanyahu.

And for all the words that Biden is offering of criticism, he has not really followed those with meaningful deeds, as that participant in the meeting, you know, you had on the air a few minutes ago noted.

So - so Biden is making choices. I mean there are other issues. Defending abortion rights is going to be a huge, I think, asset for him in Michigan after voters, you know, approve the constitutional amendment to keep it legal there. The possibility that Trump could go over their heads, as well as in Pennsylvania and Wisconsin, and supersede their efforts with a national ban, that is going to be an important asset for Biden.

But the choices he's making on Israel and Gaza ultimately affect his ability to hold together the coalition. And right now you are seeing the seams of the Democratic coalition pulling apart on this issue.

BERMAN: Ron Brownstein, great to see you this morning. Thanks so much.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: So, a small town in Oklahoma is getting a new councilman. And it's a sign of a much bigger conversation happening around the country. People in Enid, Oklahoma, voting out Commissioner Judd Blevins over his participation in the deadly white nationalist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, back in 2017. People in Enid celebrated his removal as they watched the vote live.

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CROWD: Judd, we just replaced you! Judd, we just replaced you!

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BOLDUAN: Mimicking some of the white nationalist rallying cries that we heard in Charlottesville back in 2017.

CNN's Ed Lavandera joins us live from Enid.

Ed, you had a lot of conversations with people on the ground there. This is a small town carrying a big message.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the tension here has been extremely thick for the - for much of the last year. When Judd Blevins was first elected to this city council here in Enid, Oklahoma, last year, he won by just 36 votes, 808 people voted in that ward one election.

But last night, and in the months after he took office, a small group of activists here kind of started sounding the alarm about his controversial past, his participation in that Charlottesville rally back in 2017, a far - a - the Right-wing Watchers, a group which monitors far right-wing activities also published reports that he had participated in a white nationalist group online, also making comments in chat groups that were highly controversial.

And then Judd Blevins, you know, spent the last several weeks and months defending himself. It was very difficult to kind of pinpoint exactly what he was making of his controversial past, at times apologetic, asking for forgiveness, but other times defiant. But last night voters here in ward one of Enid, Oklahoma, voted to essentially kick him out of office.

But Judd Blevins did win about 40 percent of the vote. Nevertheless, activists here say they are relieved.

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BEN EZZELI, ENID SOCIAL JUSTICE COMMITTEE: Part of the mission of those really virulent, ultra right-wing, conservative movements is to normalize these horrible beliefs.

We can't normalize these strange beliefs. We can't allow it to be tacitly accepted in the community because that's - that's a starting point that we - we can't let them take root.

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[08:45:03]

LAVANDERA: Kate, the candidate that won, Cheryl Patterson, she's expected to take office in the coming days, after the election is officially certified later this week.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: It's great to have you there, Ed. Thank you so much. It's great to see you.

John.

BERMAN: All right, a first of its kind treatment for depression online. The new app that now has the green light from the FDA.

And Pearl Jam and Norah Jones, Nicki Minaj, and Darius Rucker, the collaboration you were not expecting and honestly maybe never wanted.

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BOLDUAN: Chef Jose Andres, the founder of World Central Kitchen, is responding today to the Israeli airstrike in Gaza that killed seven people working for his organization. He wrote an opinion piece in "The New York Times" titled "Let People Eat." And in it he says this in part, "Israelis in their heart of hearts know that food is not a weapon of war. Israel is far better than the way this war is being waged. It is better than blocking food and medicine to civilians. It is better than killing aid workers who had coordinated their movements with the Israel Defense Forces."

He goes on to say, "in the worst conditions, after the worst terrorist attack in its history, it's time for the best of Israel to show up."

Now, yesterday. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, he spoke out. He took responsibility for their strike.

Listen.

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BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: Unfortunately, in the last day, there was a tragic incident where our forces unintentionally struck innocent people in the Gaza Strip. It happens in war, and we are thoroughly investigating it.

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BOLDUAN: Now, Jose Andres responded directly to Netanyahu's, "it happens in war" comment, saying this in his opinion piece. "It was a direct attack on clearly marked vehicles whose movements were known by the Israel Defense Forces. It was also the direct result of a policy that's squeezed humanitarian aid to desperate levels."

Joining us right now is Ambassador James Jeffrey. He's a former U.S. envoy for Syria engagement. Also the former U.S. ambassador to Iraq and Turkey.

Ambassador, it is great to have you here. Thank you for coming on. And President Biden, he spoke out in a new statement saying that he's

outraged and heartbroken. In part saying that, "Israel has not done enough to protect aid workers to deliver desperately needed help to civilians." He goes on to say that "the United States has repeatedly urged Israel to deconflicted their military operations against Hamas with humanitarian operations in order to avoid civilian casualties."

What do you hear in this statement from President Biden being described as some of his harshest criticism yet publicly toward Israel?

JAMES JEFFREY, CHAIR, WILSON CENTER MIDDLE EAST PROGRAM: Well, first of all, thank you for having me on, Kate.

President Biden is getting increasingly, not just impatient, but very, very nervous about this military campaign. Not just for domestic political reasons, as you just reported a few minutes ago, but also because of the impact on the region. Basically, Biden understands Israel is fighting an existential battle, not just but particularly in Gaza, against Iran and Iran-back surrogates throughout the region. And this is a fight that the United States has joined Israel in for good reason.

The problem is, the way Israel is carrying it out. As we just heard from the head of the World Central Kitchen, Israel's rules of engagement, as we call them, for using force in this battle are far too loose. They must be tightened. President Biden needs to insist on this. And there are specific steps, such as opening new crossings from north Gaza into Israel to let more food in. And Israel returning to cooperation with the main U.S. organization, UNRWA, that provides food to some 1.1 million people in Gaza under good conditions every day. These are things that President Biden needs to really insist on before he gives a green light for any more new Israeli offensive actions.

BOLDUAN: You mentioned Iran. And I wanted to ask you about that because you have been speaking about this very forcefully for some time and you - I was noting just in late March you were talking about the bigger picture here that shouldn't be lost even though each - every instance is important, saying that "the thing that drives all of this conflict and tension, Israel, Gaza and beyond, is Iran. You said this isn't just about the Israelis in Hamas and Gaza. This is about Iran and its surrogates and the whole region. The bigger issue is Iran, that Iran has been running roughshod throughout the region."

What is the right amount of pushback to what Iran is doing? Is the Israeli strike in Syria that we've been reporting about, is - is that the right way?

JEFFREY: Because this is a war, there is no perfect answer. It's a question of risks, assessments, probabilities. We have struck Iran hard several times. 1988, the Iranian navy and the tanker war. Obviously, Qassem Soleimani in 2020. And just a couple of months ago, we struck back hard after three American soldiers were killed in Jordan. Iran usually, but not always, pulls back when they're hit hard. And that's what the Israelis are trying to do.

[08:55:01]

I stand by my words that the main issue is this regional struggle that's been going on for 20 years with Iran on one side, Israel, the U.S. and moderate states on the other. The problem is, if the Israelis are not careful, their number one issue is going to be civilian casualties and humanitarian assistance. That is the terrible strategic mistake they're making right now.

BOLDUAN: You know, the former Russian president, and former Russian prime minister, Dmitry Medvedev, he reacted to the Damascus strike this way, saying, "it would be interesting to see what would happen if Iran hypothetically attacked the U.S. embassy in Israel. I see vivid fear and confusion in the eyes of the Americans." He's known, especially recently, for his inflammatory language, but what is he doing here? Are - how at risk are U.S. interests? Are they more at risk today because of the strike in Syria?

JEFFREY: It's hard to evaluate in advance Iranian reactions. I don't think so. I think Iran has tried very hard to keep out of this conflict so far, allowing its surrogates, not just Hamas, but Hezbollah in southern Lebanon, and the Houthis in Yemen, attacking Red Sea shipping, to carry the weight of this battle.

Nonetheless, this is somewhat cynical. Iran has hit many embassies. They hit my residence when I was in Baghdad in 2011. So, this is a really absurd, on the part of the Russians, calling out Iran for attacking embassies - saying Iran might attack embassies. Iran does attack embassies.

BOLDUAN: Ambassador, it is great to have you here to lean on all of your expertise. Thank you so much for your time.

JEFFREY: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: John.

BERMAN: A scathing new report this morning, ripping Microsoft over lapses in security after a hack of top U.S. government officials emails last year. It says it was preventable and never should have happened.

Chinese hackers ended up getting access to more than 60,000 emails, senior officials, including Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo had been part of.

CNN's cybersecurity reporter Sean Lyngaas is with us now.

What's going on here, Sean?

SEAN LYNGAAS, CNN CYBERSECURITY REPORTER: John, cyber espionage by, you know, world powers, whether it be Russia, China, or the U.S., is going to happen. There's going to be spying on email accounts. But the way in which this happened has really incensed senior U.S. officials.

It was the State Department, and not Microsoft, that originally caught the alleged Chinese hackers snooping through their email systems. And this new review that you referenced was out last night, found that this issue was entirely preventable. That Microsoft did not have a good idea of access to a cryptographic key that the company uses to sign emails, that the Chinese hackers were allegedly able to steal.

Now, Microsoft is owning up to this. They've said that they're instituting a series of changes in their security practices. And that they're a constant target of state-backed hackers. And that is absolutely true.

But what this shows is that major tech companies, Microsoft, Google, others, are going to be conduits for espionage or attempted espionage. And that it directly implicates U.S. national security interests.

So, this review board, which is modeled after the National Transportation Safety Board, is - to investigate big hacks has found big fault with Microsoft and they're demanding changes in how they conduct business with the U.S. government.

John.

BERMAN: All right, Sean Lyngaas, thanks so much for that report this morning.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: So, a first of its kind treatment for depression has been given the green light by the FDA. It's called Rejoyn, and it's the first ever prescription digital treatment for depression. A six-week program you complete through an app on your phone, along with prescribed antidepressant medications. Fascinating.

CNN's Meg Tirrell has much more on this.

Meg, how does this work?

MEG TIRRELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Kate, so as you said, this is a prescription app that has got the FDA greenlight for major depressive disorder. We know millions of Americans have depression and many don't get enough benefit from antidepressants alone.

So, this is actually being developed and sold by a pharmaceutical company called Otsuka, which has antidepressant medications. This is a six week training program, essentially using cognitive behavioral therapy and emotional training exercises where people engage with this app either every day or multiple times per week over a six-week period.

Then they have another month where they've still got access to this. They say that in a clinical trial this showed benefit in people already on antidepressant medications.

However, there are questions among experts in the field about how great that benefit is. And that leads to questions about how widely prescribed this will be by doctors and whether it will be covered by insurance. That has been kind of an uphill battle for these digital therapeutic tools that many companies have tried to develop. We don't know the price. We do know the company says it should be available later this year.

Guys.

BOLDUAN: So interesting.

Meg, it's great to see you, as always. Thank you so much.

[08:59:58]

And the next hour of CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts right now.