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Record Hurricane Season Predicted; Parents of Ethan Crumbley Face Sentencing; Judge Upholds Trump Georgia Indictment; Biden Speaks With Netanyahu. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired April 04, 2024 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:26]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Thanks for joining us on CNN NEWS CENTRAL this afternoon.

We begin with breaking news. A judge has upheld the criminal indictment against former President Donald Trump in Georgia,the judge there rejecting the argument that Trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election were protected under the First Amendment.

CNN's Zachary Cohen is part of the team that broke this story.

Zach, walk us through this decision by Judge Scott McAfee.

ZACHARY COHEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Yes, Boris, you will remember that we heard and we watched a hearing in Fulton County, Georgia, just about a week ago.

And Trump's lawyers argued strenuously that this entire case should be thrown out, because, in his argument, that the political speech and that the claims about voter fraud that Trump was pushing after the 2020 election are protected by the First Amendment.

Now, the judge today roundly rejecting that argument, as we have seen him do multiple other times in this case for other defendants in Georgia, saying, look -- quote -- "The defense has not presented, nor is the court able to find any authority that the speech and conduct alleged is protected political speech."

He goes on to say that this argument is one that should be heard by a jury, not one that should be decided during pretrial motions. That was the argument that prosecutors in Georgia made about a week ago in court before Judge McAfee.

So, this is just an example of this case in Georgia inching towards a potential trial. We know that the DA there has asked for a trial to start on August 5. But Judge McAfee has not put a start date on the calendar yet. That really is the big thing we're looking for, but, again, the judge continuing to work through these pretrial motions in Georgia, continuing to work toward and address these issues that have to be addressed before a trial can take place. SANCHEZ: And, Zach, Judge McAfee is not the first judge to make a

ruling like this related to Trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election being related to the First Amendment.

Judge Tanya Chutkan also rejected that argument from Trump's attorneys in the federal case against him for election subversion. I'm wondering, have you heard anything from Trump's Georgia attorneys about this decision, how they plan to proceed?

COHEN: Trump -- Trump's lead attorney IN Georgia, Steve Sadow, has immediately declined to comment on this ruling. I'm sure we will hear from him eventually, because he did push and he was the main person, the main defense attorney arguing this in court when we saw this hearing take place just about a week ago.

And, look, Steve Sadow has filed several similar motions to try to get this case thrown out before a trial even happens. Obviously, Trump is fighting multiple front -- legal fronts. As you mentioned, he tried the same argument in his federal case with Judge Tanya Chutkan, who similarly rejected the First Amendment arguments.

And when we saw the hearing take place in Georgia, prosecutors referenced Chutkan's ruling on this First Amendment issue too. And like I mentioned earlier, this is a similar argument that some of Trump's co-defendants in Georgia have also tried to make and was also rejected by Scott McAfee.

So we're going to have to see. There's other attempts and unaddressed attempts and motions on the table still to try to get this case dismissed. But, for now, the case and the indictment against Trump in Georgia remains intact.

SANCHEZ: Zach Cohen, thank you so much for the update -- Brianna.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: President Biden is outraged and -- quote -- "increasingly frustrated" by Israel's military campaign in Gaza. And he is expressing that to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in a phone call that was scheduled after the Israeli military killed seven aid workers in a series of airstrikes.

But, as Biden's frustration mounts in the wake of the deaths of World Central Kitchen employees, his policy on Israel has not changed, according to a senior administration official, even as the White House struggles to influence its key Middle Eastern ally to reduce civilian casualties in Gaza.

To that end, the U.S. is transferring more than 2,000 U.S.-made bombs to Israel. So, how effective can this call actually be?

Let's get some insight now from CNN's M.J. Lee, who is at the White House for us.

M.J., can you tell us about this phone call?

M.J. LEE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Brianna, we are currently waiting on word that this phone call between the two leaders has concluded.

But we have reported on many phone calls between the president and the prime minister since the October 7 attacks and, of course, many instances and moments of frustration and tension, where the two leaders have clashed since this war began. And you will recall that the president himself recently said that there's probably going to be a so-called come-to-Jesus moment between the two leaders.

And what sources have told us in the last 48 hours is that there is a new level of anger and frustration inside the White House after the deaths of these seven aid workers, and that that incident is certainly going to be one of the many topics that the two leaders discuss on this phone call today, in addition to, of course, the general idea of getting more humanitarian aid into Gaza, those talks that are ongoing for a temporary cease-fire and the release of hostages, and also this ground incursion into Rafah that Israeli officials continue to say is imminent.

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But what we are watching for, Brianna, here coming out of this phone call is whether that alleged anger and frustration from the president and everyone on down gets translated into a new position or new policies coming out of this administration, because, so far, the White House has made it abundantly clear that this administration continues to support Israel and the war that it is currently waging.

And they have dismissed the idea of pulling back support for Israel in any way, and certainly this idea of conditioning aid that the U.S. sends to Israel.

Here's White House spokesman John Kirby on this yesterday.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

JOHN KIRBY, NSC COORDINATOR FOR STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS: While we make no bones about the fact that we have certain issues about some of the way things are being done, we also make no bones about the fact that Israel is going to continue to have American support for the fight that they're in to eliminate the threat from Hamas.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

LEE: But sticking to the status quo is certainly being increasingly criticized and at the very least being questioned, including by Senator Chris Coons.

He, of course, is a big ally of the president's. He happens to also be a co-chair of the Biden campaign. Here's what he said this morning on our air about the idea of conditioning aid to Israel.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHRIS COONS (D-DE): I think we're at the point where President Biden has said and I have said and others have said, if Benjamin Netanyahu, prime minister, were to order the IDF into Rafah at scale, they were to drop 1,000-pound bombs and send in a battalion to go after Hamas, and make no provision for civilians or for humanitarian aid, that I would vote to condition aid to Israel.

I have never said that before.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEE: And the weapons that the U.S. has sent and continues to send to Israel is going to be increasingly controversial, and I think it's very much worth noting that the White House has said that it does not know whether U.S. resources or U.S. weaponry was involved in these strikes on Monday that ended up killing those seven aid workers -- Brianna.

KEILAR: All right, M.J. Lee live for us at the White House.

Now to Israel with CNN's Jeremy Diamond.

And, Jeremy, both of these leaders -- this isn't just about strategic military considerations. Both of these leaders have serious political considerations. What is at stake for Netanyahu with this call?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, well, listen, Prime Minister Netanyahu is facing all kinds of pressures at the moment.

Of course, foremost among them is the pressure coming from the United States and other allies, traditional allies, to the state of Israel who have been growing increasingly critical of the way in which the Israeli military is carrying out this military campaign in Gaza over the course of the last several months.

But, also, here at home, Netanyahu is facing a range of domestic political pressures, including a member of the war cabinet, his top political rival, just yesterday calling for early elections as soon as September. Protests have been mounting over the course of the last several weeks as well.

That's not to say that Netanyahu's grip on power is being loosened in any way at the moment. There doesn't appear to be any kind of imminent collapse of his coalition government. But there's no question that, in this call with President Biden, one thing that Netanyahu had to do was to convey the seriousness with which Israel is trying to address this strike.

We have seen Israeli officials, both political and military officials, over the course of the last several days conveying the extent to which they viewed this as a grave mistake and showing that they are going to take steps to try and prevent this from happening in the future.

We know that the Israeli military has been conducting an investigation, an initial inquiry into how this convoy was apparently misidentified as a threat, as the Israeli military said in the immediate aftermath of this. We expect those findings to actually be released at some point today now.

And, beyond that, Netanyahu has also talked about ways in which he plans to improve the distribution of humanitarian aid in Gaza, something that humanitarian aid groups have been saying is a problem for months now, those deconfliction channels with the Israeli military to ensure that what happened earlier this week with this World Central Kitchen convoy does not happen.

So, this was certainly a moment for Netanyahu to convey the seriousness of this matter, the fact that he wants to rectify it going forward, and to try and convince Biden as well that this is not a kind of practice of the Israeli military to go after these humanitarian aid convoys.

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But there's no question that there are still numerous questions that remain about exactly how this could have happened. And we will be waiting for the findings of that initial investigation to see whether or not those questions are answered in any kind of substantive way.

KEILAR: And, Jeremy, just real quickly, can you also talk about what we're learning about the controversial role of A.I. in the IDF's targeting, or, maybe more specifically, how reliant they have been on it without human checks and balances?

DIAMOND: Yes, a really remarkable report by an Israeli magazine, "+972," which revealed this artificial intelligence program known as Lavender, which used -- identifies targets in the Gaza Strip, effectively compiling a kill list of potential targets, suspected militants, for the Israeli military to then drop bombs, drop missiles in the Gaza Strip.

And this report revealed that the military relied on this, systematically using this system to identify targets, and then rapidly authorizing strikes on those targets, including on some of these suspected militants, low-level militants in some cases, at nighttime while they were home in their families, resulting in significant civilian casualties, as we have watched over the course of the last several months of this war.

The Israeli military, for its part, said that these systems are merely tools for analysts to use, that it is used in conjunction with human personnel, who verify the information that this A.I. system is giving.

But one source told "+972" that military personnel effectively served as a rubber stamp and that this system actually had a 10 percent error rate, so very significant and very troubling information revealed by this magazine.

KEILAR: Yes, indeed.

Jeremy Diamond, thank you so much for that -- Boris.

SANCHEZ: Let's expand the conversation now with former State Department Middle East negotiator Aaron David Miller.

Aaron, thank you so much for being with us.

Are you expecting anything on the ground in Gaza to change from today's call between President Biden and Prime Minister Netanyahu?

AARON DAVID MILLER, FORMER STATE DEPARTMENT MIDDLE EAST NEGOTIATOR: I mean, one call is not going to make or break this relationship between the two countries.

And I think, Boris, the overall point, six months into this war, almost six months into this war, is that the administration has been pursuing what I call a passive-aggressive policy toward the Israelis, tremendous anger, tremendous frustration, tremendous desire to change Israeli practices on the ground and minimize the exponential rise of Palestinian deaths and the humanitarian catastrophe, but unwilling, it seems to me, still to impose a single cost or consequence that you and I would consider significant on Israel.

And I think the reasons are clear. The president, alone among his predecessors, has this unique emotional bond with the people of Israel, the security of Israel, the idea of Israel, obviously not so much with the most extreme right-wing government in the history of the state.

And, second, if Biden wants to change the pictures in Gaza, de- escalate free hostages, surge humanitarian assistance, avoid a disaster in Rafah, I think he really has no choice. And I think this is the way they're reasoning it out, but to cooperate not just with Netanyahu, but to read the mood of the Israeli public and also Benny Gantz, Boris, who sits in that war cabinet, endorsing the Rafah operation.

So it can't be Netanyahu against Biden. It would be -- it ended up, would be Biden against most of -- most of the Israeli public, and I don't think the administration wants to put itself in that position.

SANCHEZ: That's a fair point. I would say that it's almost poetic, in a sense, because, for Biden, it could have electoral consequences.

He wants this conflict to end sooner, rather than later, because obviously, it could cost him in November. Critics would say that Netanyahu wants the conflict to go on because he's trying to avoid elections. It doesn't seem to you like their motivations are contradictory?

MILLER: Yes, well, absolutely.

Two clocks. The president wants this thing over, or at least de- escalated to the point where Palestinian lives are protected and humanitarian assistance can be surged into Gaza, rather than dribbled in.

And, yes, I think, on trial for bribery, fraud and breach of trust in a Jerusalem district court, three judges for three years now, the longer the war continues, the greater the chances, I'm sure Mr. Netanyahu believes, that something good will happen, they will rescue hostages, they will kill the senior leadership, and, to some degree, he will be able to get credit to offset the debacle of October 7.

SANCHEZ: I do want to ask about potential avenues for the U.S. to exert influence.

Is there anything the White House can do, outside of putting restrictions on arms sales or limiting arms sales, that would get Netanyahu to adjust his posture?

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MILLER: Hard to say.

Three levers, the administration could have pulled all of them or none of them since October 7. One, as you pointed out, condition, restrict or end munitions deliveries to Israel. Not going to do that, seems to me. Number two, introduce their own U.N. Security Council resolution or abstain or vote for someone else's that is highly critical of Israel. Seems to me not going to do that.

And then the third issue is, forget the Israeli-Hamas negotiations and join the international community in calling for an immediate cessation of hostilities, and we will deal with hostages later. And, frankly, Israel's not at war with Switzerland. I think the president understands that. Israel's fighting a vicious terror organization which holds and abuses hostages.

I don't think that president's going to do that. So I think Biden's in a box, Boris. That's the real problem here. He's in an investment trap. And it's really difficult for me to see how he fundamentally changes course.

SANCHEZ: You did mention in a recent interview that you believe that Biden doesn't share the same depth of feeling and empathy for Palestinians that he does for Israelis.

I think the White House would refute that. Help us understand your perspective.

MILLER: I mean, this is a good, kind man, Joe Biden.

And if you watched his speech on October 10, it was quite clear three days after the Hamas terror surge, that he -- he's -- and to some degree feels the emotion and the pain of Israelis and the loss. He referred to the -- quote -- "black hole of loss" -- unquote. And he may even conflate it with the own -- with the personal tragedies in his own life, genuine emotional man.

The way it's conveyed, however, I think, is different. And I have gotten a lot of pushback for that comment, but I think it's true. It's not that Joe Biden doesn't care about the deaths of Palestinian innocents and the exponential rise of casualties, deaths, humanitarian catastrophe that exists in Gaza.

It just seems to me that, when he conveys it, he does not convey it with the same power of emotion and feeling and resonance. And I think that's something that could easily be corrected, because it's genuine. This is a caring, feeling human.

SANCHEZ: Right. I do want to -- I do... MILLER: But it does not come across that way.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

I do want to ask you one more thing quickly. The point about electoral consequences, "The Wall Street Journal" had a poll recently that showed that those asked prefer former President Donald Trump to Joe Biden on a theoretical handling of the war in Gaza by 14 percentage points.

Just based on his first term, how do you think the U.S. position on the war would be different if Donald Trump were in the White House?

MILLER: Oh, I think it would be fundamentally different.

There's aid getting into Gaza because of administration pressure, not enough, but because of administration pressure. There's freedom for hostages in large part because of U.S. intercession. There was the intercession in the second or third day of the war to prevent a preemptive Israeli strike against Hezbollah, which could have morphed into a regional war.

I think, with Donald Trump, you're going to get a hands-off, "What's in it for me?" policy. And I think that would be a fundamental disaster. And those uncommitted who somehow believe that not voting for Joe Biden because of their anger, understandable, in the wake of Palestinian deaths, are courting catastrophe, it seems to me, not just in the Middle East, but for this republic of ours, by not turning out.

I have voted Republicans and Democrats. I have worked for Republicans and Democrats. It's a matter of the national interest at this point, Boris. And I think most reasonable, rational humans know what the better outcome will be on November 5.

SANCHEZ: Aaron David Miller, appreciate the perspective, as always. Thanks for being with us.

MILLER: Thanks for having me.

SANCHEZ: Of course.

Still to come: Michigan prosecutors say the parents of school shooter Ethan Crumbley showed a chilling lack of remorse after their manslaughter convictions. Up next, what it could mean for their sentencing.

Plus: an unprecedented forecast. An early outlook says this hurricane season is shaping up to be one of the worst on record. New details straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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KEILAR: As a Michigan couple faces sentencing next week for their roles in the Oxford school shooting carried out by their son, prosecutors are laying out what they call a -- quote -- "chilling lack of remorse from the pair."

That was from a sentencing memorandum for James and Jennifer Crumbley. They were convicted of involuntary manslaughter for what juries saw as their roles in their son's deadly rampage in 2021. He killed four students in that massacre.

CNN's Jean Casarez has the details for us.

Jean, what are you learning?

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, what we're learning is, the prosecution, they have filed their sentencing memos. The defense has not yet.

But they are really asking for the maximum. They want 10 to 15 years. The maximum is 15 years. And, remember, both of them have been behind bars for about two years and four months at this point. And they get out about 23 hours a day. I mean -- they're inside their cell for 23 hours a day, can get out for an hour a day.

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And so both of them obviously want something other than the maximum. But what the prosecution is really basing this on is, just as you said, that there is no remorse, that they are just -- and, with Jennifer, they're talking about when she testified and that she said "I wouldn't change anything."

Well, there are statements included in these memos from the defendants themselves. So, I want you to hear in their own words what they are saying at this point.

James Crumbley is saying -- quote -- "I am wrongly accused and now wrongly convicted of involuntary manslaughter. My actions were that of any other parent. Ethan was a great kid. He never got in trouble at school, had decent grades, and very rarely got in trouble at home. And when he did get in minor trouble, it was just about grades or assignments he needed to complete. Ethan always appeared to be a very stable individual. Never did he voice anything to me that anything was bothering him."

Now, Jennifer Crumbley said, in part: "There are so many things that I would change if I could go back in time. I knew my son to be a quiet, good kid who loved his pets. I never imagined he would hurt other people in the way that he did. I have been in jail for over 26 months and have been locked down 23 hours per day. I am hopeful the court will sentence me in a way that allows me to be released from jail for the balance of my sentence."

And what it goes on to say in that memo is that, according to Jennifer Crumbley, her attorney is allowing her to spend this time if she would be out, but obviously on watch in home confinement, in a guest house she has on her property. And that's included in the memo.

One thing that really weighs against James is that there were threats that James made on the phone directly to Karen McDonald, the elected county prosecutor, that, I'm going to get you and -- when I get out, and just threats to her person.

And that could really impact him, I think, in sentencing, because, obviously, danger to the community is something that the court will look at.

But one more thing in regard to Jennifer Crumbley, she always -- the jury convicted her based on she was the last one to have the gun. We hear in these memos -- and it's from James in his statement -- that the jail psychiatrist talked to Ethan, and it came out in the Miller hearing.

And Ethan said: I snuck into my parents' room first off to try to find where the gun was and where the bullets were, and then I snuck in again when I actually got the gun, before I was going to commit that shooting and the bullets.

We have always wondered how he got the gun. And that psychiatrist did testify in the Miller hearing. And I don't remember her saying that, but she did say that he took responsibility, that it was all him.

KEILAR: It's very interesting.

Well, we will stay tuned to see what happens here.

Jean Casarez, thank you for the latest -- Boris.

SANCHEZ: A gloomy prognostication we got today.

A first-of-its-kind forecast has just been issued for this year's Atlantic hurricane season. It's predicting more hurricanes than ever before in a preseason forecast. Scientists at Colorado State University say there could be as many as 11 hurricanes when the season starts in June. The previous high for the outlook was nine.

CNN meteorologist Chad Myers is here with the details.

Chad, I think a lot of people are wondering, is this related to climate change because the water is warmer?

CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Well, sure, absolutely, also because of El Nino last year. It caused 2023 to be the hottest year on record.

So, the Atlantic Ocean is the hottest it's ever been for this time of year. And I thought of a -- tried to figure out a way to kind of explain this. But, if you're running a race and they let one guy start 15 minutes earlier than the rest of the team, won't that guy make more laps?

Well, if we start hurricane season earlier, because this map right here looks like May, three to five degrees already above. So, that's three to five weeks ahead of schedule. So, maybe June 1 isn't the official start of hurricane season anymore. We're going to have to make this season longer, so more active than normal.

The change to La Nina, and that's important. I will tell you why. And also, obviously, the warm air temperatures, they're here. So, the Colorado State forecast, this has been coming out for decades. 23 named storms, 11 hurricanes, five major. This is the normal, 14, seven, two.

This was last year, 13, six, two. We actually got to 20, seven, three, so a good forecast for the hurricanes, the named storms obviously a little bit lower. But look how much higher than normal we are because of all of those things coming together, and not only that, but people ask, well, isn't one going to hit land?

Well, we don't know. But because we have more fish in the water, more hurricanes out there, there's now a 62 percent, instead of a 42 percent, 34 to 21 along the East Coast, and even for the Gulf of Mexico. Obviously, we're already one or two degrees warmer here in the Gulf.

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