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Idaho Man Accused Of Planning ISIS Attack On Churches; New Screening Test For Pancreatic Cancer Shows Promise; Rep. Gregory Meeks (D-NY) On Rep. Greene's Doubling Down Against Speaker Johnson. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired April 09, 2024 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[07:31:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Developing this morning, an 18-year-old in Idaho could face up to 20 years in prison after allegedly planning an ISIS attack on multiple churches. In messages, the suspect allegedly said he wanted to kill as many as possible using knives, firearms, and fire.

CNN's Zac Cohen here with the details. Zac, what are you learning?

ZACHARY COHEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Yeah, John, the FBI is saying that they were able to arrest 18-year-old Alexander Mercurio before he could go on this killing rampage that he was allegedly planning to carry out in the name of ISIS. And look, the FBI is pointing to a series of messages that date back all the way to 2022 when they say they almost stumbled upon Alexander Mercurio on his online chat room as they were investigating a completely different issue related to cryptocurrency.

But ultimately, as they continued to monitor the messages between who they later learned to be Mercurio, they noticed that he was expressing pro-ISIS views and was increasingly talking about carrying out actual acts of violence as being radicalized online.

But a law enforcement official is telling CNN that these efforts to plan and carry out an actual attack seemed to intensify after last month's attack in Moscow -- the ISIS attack against a concert hall in Moscow that left over 140 people dead. They point to this video that was posted -- allegedly posted showing Mercurio swearing an oath of allegiance to ISIS, standing in front of an ISIS flag with what appears to be a knife.

They also point to a series of messages, again between someone who Mercurio thought was -- could help him join ISIS overseas but was actually working for the FBI.

And the first message -- or one of the first messages is from March 21, 2024. It says -- Mercurio types, "I have motivation for nothing but fighting, like some kind of insatiable bloodlust for the life- juice of these idolators; a craving for mayhem and murder to terrorize those around me. I need some better weapons than knives."

So a couple of days later, on March 25 and 26, Mercurio again messages the same person allegedly, and -- but seems to outline what his plan was to carry out this attack against churches in Idaho. He says, "The plan is basically this -- equip the weapons and storm the temple, kill as many as possible before they inevitably disperse/scatter, then burn the temple to the ground and flee the scene. Then move on to the next church, rinse and repeat for all 21-plus churches in the town until killed."

So the FBI is saying that Mercurio clearly making his intentions -- or stating his intentions in those messages. He -- they said that he was planning to carry out this attack on April 7 but again, was taken into custody before that.

And as you mentioned, he does face up to 20 years in federal prison. We're waiting for him to make his first court appearance here in the next day or so.

BERMAN: All right. We know you're following this very closely, Zac. Thanks so much for being with us this morning -- Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: He had no control of his own emotions. That is how prosecutors in New Mexico are trying to describe Alec Baldwin's behavior on the "Rust" movie set. And in new legal filings, prosecutors say that behavior contributed to safety compromises that eventually led to the fatal shooting of cinematographer Halyna Hutchins in 2021. Baldwin pleaded not guilty to involuntary manslaughter. Last month, his legal team filed to have the charges dismissed altogether.

The National Association of Intercollegiate Athletes has just effectively banned transgender women and girls from participating in most of its women's sports programs. Now this is not the NCAA, but the NAIA does oversee about 240 smaller schools.

New policy stating the following. Only NAIA student-athletes whose biological sex is female may participate in their sponsored female sports. They define biological sex as having distinguishing characteristics and can be supported -- can be supported by a birth certificate or signed affidavit. In response, one LGBTQ rights group says the policy cultivates exclusion and discrimination.

Today, the Arizona Supreme Court is expected to decide whether the state's current 15-week abortion ban will stay in place. The current law replaced a 120-year-old version of a law that banned the procedure in all cases and it only allows for exceptions when it is necessary to save a pregnant person's life. A block on the Civil War-era law was lifted after the Supreme Court ruling that overturned Roe versus Wade in June of 2022 -- John.

[07:35:19]

BERMAN: On that, this morning, Donald Trump is facing pushback from Republican allies and Democrats over saying that abortion laws should be left to the states. His former vice president, Mike Pence, calls that a slap in the face

to voters who backed him in 2016 and 2020.

Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham, who has been pushing for a federal 15- week abortion ban, said he "respectfully disagreed" with Trump. Accordingly, Trump demeaned the normally subservient Graham all over social media.

CNN's Alayna Treene is with us now. How does the Trump team think this is going so far, Alayna?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: Well look, I think they were anticipating some criticism from the right and anti-abortion advocates. But, of course, Donald Trump was frustrated and disappointed that some of his top allies were coming out and publicly showing that they disagreed with him on this.

And I think the key thing here to keep in mind, John, is that this isn't a total change in Donald Trump's position. He had long said that he believed that abortion should be up to the states. But I think the significance of it is that this is going to be the position that they hold until November. At least that's what his campaign advisers tell me now.

And that comes after he had flirted with a 15-week or 16-week ban. And many of these people who criticized him, including Sen. Lindsey Graham and Marjorie Dannenfelser -- she's the president of SBA Pro-Life, a leading anti-abortion group -- they had been in Donald Trump's ear for over a year now trying to get him to support a national ban on abortions after a specific number of weeks -- mainly, 15 weeks -- and that's where a lot of this is coming from.

But look, I do want to share with you some of the criticism that Donald Trump logged at these allies of him. He said that Lindsey Graham "...is doing a great disservice to the Republican Party and to our country." He also pointed out that Democrats in Congress would never allow a national abortion ban to pass. And then, while criticizing both Graham and Dannenfelser, he said "That they should proudly get on with helping Republicans to win election" -- he said that in all caps, "rather than making it impossible for them to do so."

And I think that point about winning elections is really where a lot of this comes down to. We've reported extensively on Donald Trump's conversations with these people about abortion. And the key thing that he keeps bringing up, not just privately but as we saw yesterday in public, is that he believes that they need to take a stance that will allow him to win in November. And he believes that seeding this to the states and really punting this to the states is the way that will help protect Republicans from this large vulnerability.

But at the end of the day, I think the bottom line here, John, is that regardless of some of these Graham and Dannenfelser's and Mike Pence's disappointment in Donald Trump on this, Democrats who -- or excuse me, Republicans who are against abortion are still going to choose Donald Trump in November and not Joe Biden. I think that's the key thing to keep in mind here.

BERMAN: Yeah. Although it is interesting to see how he repays the loyalty that Lindsey Graham has shown him over the years.

Alayna Treene, thanks so much for being with us.

TREENE: Right.

BERMAN: Kate.

BOLDUAN: It really is interesting seeing that play out, John.

There's also this we are tracking when it comes to Donald Trump. Investors in Trump media could be in for another wild ride when markets open this morning. A recent slump in the price of Truth Social has raised all of its gains and wiped out billions from Donald Trump's net worth at the very same time. It just went public two weeks ago, remember.

CNN's Matt Egan has much more on this. He's been tracking this for us because there's a lot to be tracking. What is going on here?

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Kate, this is amazing. This stock is moving around so much that it makes Bitcoin look boring, right? One day there's a gravity-defined spike. The next day it crashes back to Earth. This is a look at all the days that it's been trading for the last weeks and you can see every single day it's moving by at least five percent.

BOLDUAN: So for the layman, this is not what you want your stock price to look like?

EGAN: This is not normal. I mean, if this were a weekly stock move or a monthly stock move, maybe, but not every single day.

And remember, the higher the stock price goes the richer Donald Trump is, at least on paper.

BOLDUAN: Right.

EGAN: He's the dominant shareholder.

When you look back to March 27, Trump's stake was valued at $5.2 billion. But the stock has gone down, down, down since then. It's now valued at $2.9 billion, so a loss of $2 billion in a short timeframe.

So we have this bizarre situation where the net worth of the former President of the United States and potential future President of the United States is linked to something that's moving around like it's inside of a pinball machine.

BOLDUAN: I've asked you this each time we have tracked this. Are you -- is there any further window into why this is so volatile?

[07:40:00] EGAN: Yeah, there is. I mean, this is extreme turbulence. And one of the reasons is because the company is being valued in the billions of dollars even though it generates very little revenue and its main product, Truth Social, is shrinking in terms of the number of users.

So I talked to NYU Professor Michael Ohlrogge and he told me this stock seems to be completely untethered to fundamental value. The reason why that's important is because that companies have really high valuations, they tend to be more volatile. They don't have much to fall back on.

This is how volatile it is. Renaissance Capital calculated that if Trump Media lost half of its value every single day it would still have a higher valuation than any of its peers, including Meta, and Pinterest, and Snap, Reddit -- even Rumble.

BOLDUAN: That's wild when you consider --

EGAN: Yes.

BOLDUAN: -- it that way

EGAN: It's amazing.

Another factor here is that it's really hard right now to bet against this stock. Even though it has been going down there is very few shares that you can borrow, and that's how you have to bet against the stock. It has what's known as a very small float -- the number of shares that are available -- and that's important because usually, short-selling -- betting against the stock -- prevents it from going to the moon, right, and that's just not possible here.

Another point here is the Trump factor, right?

BOLDUAN: Um-hum.

EGAN: This company is inextricably linked to the political fortunes of Donald Trump and it's become a way for people to bet on the future of Donald Trump. It's incredible.

So we have this kind of tug-of-war playing out in real time between Trump supporters and those who think that this company's valuation is absolutely ridiculous.

So listen, Kate, I think that everyone should sort of fasten their seatbelts because this extreme turbulence -- it's not over yet.

BOLDUAN: This is also speaking to, like, the worst of personality traits for people, John. It's like -- so if you're more -- the more volatile you are and the more overvalued you are, the better you are in the short term.

EGAN: Yeah. How I live my life.

BERMAN: No, look. Matt does a great job covering this and I'm so glad he's here to explain this to us. BOLDUAN: Yeah. It's -- I can't so I'm excited that he's doing it for us all.

BERMAN: Yeah, and we haven't heard the last of it. I think there's a lot more to come here, so thanks, Matt.

All right. This morning, scientists say they are closer to developing a blood test to detect early-stage pancreatic cancer. Until now it's been extremely difficult to catch pancreatic cancer before it reaches an advanced stage, which makes it one of the deadliest cancers.

CNN's Jacqueline Howard is here to explain what's going on -- Jacqueline.

JACQUELINE HOWARD, CNN HEALTH REPORTER: Well, John, we know that there are several scientists around the world working to develop blood tests to detect early cases of pancreatic cancer. And one group, in particular -- they're from the City of Hope Comprehensive Cancer Center -- just this week, they announced that their blood test was able to identify key biomarkers associated with pancreatic cancer as well as a key protein. And this approach showed that their test was 97 percent accurate in detecting stage one and stage two pancreatic cancers in their study.

Now, this is early research. It hasn't been published in a peer- reviewed journal. But they say that this shows promise that we are getting closer to developing a blood test for early cases of pancreatic cancer. And having a test like this, John, would change the landscape for patients out there because we know that pancreatic cancer -- it's incredibly deadly. It only makes up about three percent of all new cancer cases that are diagnosed. But it's the third-leading cause of cancer deaths, and that's because it's typically diagnosed at an advanced stage.

And when you are diagnosed at an advanced stage, sometimes surgeons may be more reluctant to operate if they know that your cancer is likely to come back or if it has spread. In the pancreas itself, John, it's tucked behind the stomach so it's difficult to get to, so the procedure is complicated.

But if we diagnose more patients at early stages, surgery can be more successful and that can enhance their chances of survival.

So all eyes are on these blood tests that are in development. And hopefully, John, we'll hear more from either these researchers or other groups of scientists of just how well their tests are doing as they look into this possible future for diagnosing pancreatic cancer.

BERMAN: Such a hopeful, promising development.

HOWARD: Yeah.

BERMAN: Jacqueline Howard, thank you very much -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. So it's like the beginning of a hilarious and very adorable joke.

Let's play it through. A solar eclipse sets in and a goat walks onto a bridge all at the same time. That is what first responders were apparently up against in Kansas City, Missouri yesterday.

This mountain goat -- where is it? This adorable mountain goat was on a small -- was trapped on a small concrete ledge just below the top of the bridge. No one knows how it ended up there. That apparently must be the end of the joke.

First responders tried several times to coax him out before finally getting him down. It was -- then it was taken to a local animal shelter to be checked out and expected to make a full recovery.

I know John wants to say something about this but I'm not going to let him because I have more.

BERMAN: How many mountain goats are there in Kansas City? Is it known for its mountains?

[07:45:00]

BOLDUAN: Millions, millions. Maybe there -- maybe it's part of that thing where they use them to cut the grass and it's very economical.

BERMAN: That's a good idea.

BOLDUAN: Stand by to see why.

All right, there's also this -- not mountain goats. UConn is the big winner once again with March Madness now in the rearview. We're going to talk to UConn's main man, the seven-foot-two center, just slightly taller than me, who helped them clinch the national title. That's next.

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[07:50:00]

BOLDUAN: The House of Representatives heads back to Capitol Hill and back to work today. And Republican Congressman Marjorie Taylor Greene is doing her level best to add to that work, pushing ahead with her effort to potentially oust the Republican House Speaker Mike Johnson. She not only has called him a damned fool and liar -- last night, she called the Republican speaker a Democrat.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): He's not our Republican Speaker of the House. He's the Democrat Speaker of the House and he's doing a better job than Hakeem Jeffries.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Joining us right now, Democratic Congressman Greg Meeks of New York. He's a top Democrat on the House Foreign Affairs Committee. Thank you so much for being here.

Speaker -- do you think he can and will be able to keep his job if Marjorie Taylor Greene pushes this ahead?

REP. GREGORY MEEKS (D-NY): I think so in talking to some of my colleagues on the Republican side and even some on the Democratic side. As long as we are able to put the supplemental on the floor and vote to make sure that Ukraine gets the resources that it needs, he should not be removed for that. And in my estimation, I don't think he will.

BOLDUAN: Clyburn was asked, as I want to ask you, if Hakeem Jeffries called you up and said I need you to support Mike Johnson to keep him in the speakership -- if that happened, would you?

MEEKS: Yeah. Hakeem is the leader. But I can tell you from my position, I know how urgent it is --

BOLDUAN: Um-hum.

MEEKS: -- to get the aid into Ukraine and to get it there now. It needed to be there yesterday. And so, that's what's important.

So it's got to be the Senate's bill --

BOLDUAN: Um-hum, right.

MEEKS: -- that has already passed so that we can get that done and get the aid that Ukraine needs.

BOLDUAN: So there are some details in there because there -- he -- Johnson is trying to walk a fine line to try to figure this out right now on what will be put forward in terms of Ukraine aid. But that is at the center of what Marjorie Taylor Greene is so upset about -- is Ukraine aid. And on that long-stalled Ukraine aid effort that is -- you want to see a vote in the House.

The Republican chairman of your committee, Michael McCaul -- he said this. "I think Russian propaganda has made its way into the United States, unfortunately, and it's infected a good chunk of my party's base."

Then the Republican chairman of the House Intel -- he agreed on Sunday. Let me play you what Mike Turner said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE TURNER (R-OH): Oh, it's absolutely true. We see directly coming from Russia attempts to mask communications that are anti- Ukraine and pro-Russia messages, some of which we even hear being uttered on the House floor.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: That from the Republican chairman of House Intel, Mike Turner. Do you agree?

MEEKS: Yeah. I think that you're having those talking points and you're having, therefore, within the Republican Party, almost a Russian caucus. And so that's why it's important though for individuals like my friend Mike McCaul and Mr. Turner to come together with Democrats. And that's why it's important for the speaker to put this vote on the floor. You will see that Democrats and Republicans will pass the bill -- pass the Senate bill because we know how urgent and important it is to get the money into Ukraine and stop Putin from continuing his aggression.

BOLDUAN: Additional things were added to that bill. Would you -- would you -- details matter. But are you open to any changes of the Senate bill to vote on?

MEEKS: The Senate bill has to be the bill. I'll tell you why, Kate. Because to do anything else, it takes much longer.

BOLDUAN: I see what you're saying.

MEEKS: So we've got to get it done now. The Ukrainians need the money now and the only way to get them the money now is to pass the Senate's bill.

BOLDUAN: The Biden administration is also on another front in terms of aid. The Biden administration is pressing you all to approve the sale of something -- $18 billion worth of F-15 fighter jets to Israel. It would be one of the largest U.S. arms sales to Israel in years, Congressman. It needs the sign-off from the Foreign Affairs Committee as part of this process. The top Republicans in the House and Senate -- they have.

I have not heard from you yet on this. Have you signed off on this sale?

MEEKS: Yeah. I'm waiting for assurances. I'm going to -- when I go back to Washington, D.C. I want to make sure that I know the types of weapons and what the weapons would be utilized for.

For example, I think it's enough -- it's enough for what has been taking place in Gaza. I think that Hamas needs to let the hostage go now and there should be pressure on Hamas to let the hostages go. I think that's what the people in Israel are crying for. And I think it's enough to have the indiscriminate bombing taking place -- the 2,000 car bombs and the 1,000-pound bombs.

BOLDUAN: But this is important, though, Congressman. This is important. Your view on this is very important. Are -- would you support efforts to block this sale?

MEEKS: I take things very seriously and that's why I've got to go. I'll be in a SCIF looking to see for myself what those assurances are.

I say it is enough of the indiscriminate bombing. I don't want the kinds of weapons that Israel has to be utilized to have more death. I want to make sure that humanitarian aid gets in. I don't want people starving. And I want Hamas to release the hostages. It's enough.

BOLDUAN: But these -- but the F-15s --

MEEKS: And then I want a two-state solution.

BOLDUAN: The F-15s are five years out. The F-15s won't be delivered for five years.

MEEKS: Well, I will make that determination once I see what those assurances are --

BOLDUAN: OK.

MEEKS: -- because I want to make sure, though, that death stops now, and the hostages come home now. That's what's important here.

[07:55:02]

BOLDUAN: Listen, it really is important hearing your view on this. I've been wanting to see where you were on this. Obviously, you need to hear more before you're ready to sign off.

Finally, the chairman, Mike McCaul -- he has now released more of the interview transcripts with top State Department leadership that were deployed to handle the American evacuation during the Afghanistan withdrawal.

Some of the quotes that have -- that have been put out from James DeHart said that they had to "...create from scratch tactical operations that would our priority people into the airport."

John Bass, who I've covered for years, said, "We were already in the midst of executing an evacuation that substantially exceeded I think the scope and scale of what had been contemplated."

They paint a picture, Congressman, that the State Department was not prepared and that they had to create this from scratch.

MEEKS: No. What -- they paint the picture, number one. I encouraged -- I've been asking Chairman McCaul to release these transcripts because I think that they --

BOLDUAN: And that doesn't concern you?

MEEKS: No. Because what happened is -- what they say -- if you take the quote in context, what it was saying is that the State Department did their job. They had to adapt to what was taking place on the ground. It wasn't chaotic with what they were doing. It was chaotic because Ghani had left and the Taliban now was in charge, and so that made a chaotic situation.

And so, what the State Department had to do was to react to that chaotic situation and they worked very hard on a plan to make sure. And that's how they got 124,000 individuals out.

BOLDUAN: Yes, but add in Mark Milley, to your committee, said it's my assessment that decision came too late to get that plane going.

MEEKS: But we did -- you know, President Ghani was in Washington, D.C. a week before that where he assured members of Congress on both sides that he wasn't going to leave. That they were going to stay there and they were going to do what they had to do. That changed. That changed. And so, it caused the plans of what we had to change.

You know, what they all say also where there was not a plan was when Donald Trump decided that he was going to have people -- have us out by May with no plan. And when the transition took place, he was very not cooperative with the Biden administration in trying to fulfill that.

So the Biden administration -- there was a plan. Things changed on the ground. The State Department -- instead of going after them and saying that they didn't know this and that -- if you listen and look at that testimony -- because I want -- there's 11 more to be released --

BOLDUAN: Yeah.

MEEKS: -- you will see that what they did was not chaotic. The chaos was on the ground but what their plans was to deal with the changing situation was not chaotic. It was heroic. They were able to get 124,000 people out on time and continue to move forward.

So I think that instead of criticizing the State Department and what they did and how they did it, we should be saying thank you to the State Department in dealing with a situation that -- where you had unanticipated chaos.

BOLDUAN: Congressman, thank you so much for coming in. Now, get back to Washington. You've got a lot of work to do.

MEEKS: Thank you for having me.

BOLDUAN: Thank you so much.

MEEKS: Thank you -- all right.

BOLDUAN: John.

BERMAN: All right, the UConn Huskies have claimed the biggest prize in men's college basketball winning their second consecutive championship.

Joining me now is Huskies' center Donovan Clingan. So nice to see you this morning. Your second in a row. All of New England is celebrating alongside you.

Which of the two championships do you like better?

DONOVAN CLINGAN, CENTER, UCONN HUSKIES: Oh, that's a tough question. You know, this year was really a special team. Last year we had a special team. It's really hard. They were both great. I love this program and I love this school, so just to be a part of history in a place where it's hard to make history -- it means a lot to me. And I love both of these natties the same.

BERMAN: So, there aren't a lot of people who are bigger than you, let alone centers you play against who are bigger than you. Last night -- you're, what, seven-two, 280? Last night, Zach Edey, seven-four, 300 pounds. What was it like to go up against a mountain?

CLINGAN: Yeah. I mean, he was very, very strong. He's very big. He's tall. He knows how to use his size to his advantage.

But we came up with a really good game plan to just let them try to score 70 and beat us and don't let the guys on the perimeter touch the ball and don't let them score. He was going for the two-point play and I -- in my head I was just like I can't follow him and get those extra and ones to get him to the free throw line. I've just got to be smart while up and if he makes two, he makes two. Don't let the -- don't let the three-point shooters make shots and protect -- just protect them at all costs.

BERMAN: Yeah. That was -- I have to say it's gutsy. You guys didn't double Zach Edey underneath -- and that's something.

Listen, you lost your mother in 2018 and we are so sorry for your loss. She was a baller, too. I mean, what, three NCAA --

CLINGAN: Appreciate that.

BERMAN: -- tournaments.

CLINGAN: Oh, yeah.

[08:00:00]

BERMAN: What do you think that she would like most about this for you?

CLINGAN: Yeah, just how hard I've worked and what I've -- what I started with. I played at a public high school. I played on a very small AEU team. I worked hard and I tried to make it to a level -- a very high level and I was able to make history.

I know she's smiling down on me. I know she's happy for me. And I wish she could be part of it but like I said, I know she's proud of me.

BERMAN: I'm sure she would be so, so proud of you.

And we lost the signal there.

Donovan Clingan, what an athlete and what a nice guy.