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Soon: Jury Selection Resumes In Trump Hush Money Trial; Trump Arrives At Courthouse For Day 3 Of Hush Money Trial; Rep. Anna Paulina Luna, (R-FL), Is Interviewed About Foreign Aid, Mike Johnson; Johnson Moves Ahead With Foreign Aid Plan Despite Threats To Oust Him. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired April 18, 2024 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

PAULA NEWTON, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: Sold for cash. What happened with that cash, it was then funneled into an elaborate gun smuggling operation.

And Kate, this really points to what's going on on both borders, right? You have both the northern border and the southern border, where gun running is really becoming a lucrative business for organized crime. And this is the kind of plot that unraveled police say at Toronto's airport, the investigation, I should say, is still underway. Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: I mean, it'll elaborate and I mean, you tell it so well, but it is amazing. The twists and turns it's taking in may still take. Thank you, Paula. It's good to see you.

And the next hour of CNN news -- CNN News Central starts now.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, happening now, just moments ago, Donald Trump arrived at court. Is he on his way to a major rebuke from the judge over social media posts about the jury? A critical day for House Speaker Mike Johnson putting his job on the line for a vote on Ukraine. How many Republicans are now pushing for his ouster?

And stay tuned to see what the world's most dynamic humanoid robot can really do. No, not me, this is science. I'm human being Jon Berman with Kate Bolduan and Sara Sidner. And this is CNN News Central.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Breaking news for you, we're standing by right now to potentially hear a brand new direct message from Donald Trump before he heads in court for the third day of his historic criminal trial. Moments ago, he arrived at the courthouse as you heard from John. And if the first two days are any indicator, you will likely stop before cameras and say something. But it is something he's already said rather posted that's raising serious legal alarm this morning? Will the judge admonished him again?

CNNs Kara Scannell is live outside court.

Kara, you are about to go inside where you've been watching this unfold. What will you be watching for as jury selection resumes and after this Truth Social post by Donald Trump?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Sara, I think that Truth Social post is something that we're all looking to see whether that is addressed this morning, either raised by the prosecution or if the judge takes it up himself. Mean in this post Trump says that "They are catching undercover liberal activists lying to the judge in order to get on the Trump jury," quoting a Fox News host. But the big question here is does this violate the gag order which specifically says Trump cannot make any statements about prospective jurors or jurors in the case. You know, the judge is already considering whether Trump violated the gag order for other statements he made earlier this week. There's a hearing on that next week.

But as we're in the middle of jury selection, big thing is will the judge bring this up? And just a reminder on Tuesday that it was the judge himself who pointed out and said he wanted to note for the record that he has heard Donald Trump uttering and gesturing in the direction of one of the jurors during jury selection. He said -- he put that on the record and he said to Trump's attorney that there will be no intimidation of jurors in this courtroom, I want to make that crystal clear and instructed Trump's lawyer to speak to him which he did. So, this is clearly something of concern to the judge. Big question is, does he bring that up and what is the fallout from that?

Once that issue is settled, though, jury selection is expected to get underway. Again, remember we have seven jurors who are already seated. Today they are bringing in a new panel of 96 jurors, and we will start this process all over again. The judge will ask if anyone feels that they can't be fair and impartial. Those jurors will be excused, if anyone else can't serve given the length of time or for other reasons, they'll be excused.

Then we'll have the mass of jurors go through that questionnaire, begin the lawyer questioning and then strikes and see if we can get to 12 jurors and as many as six alternates by the end of the week. Sara.

SIDNER: Yes. It's anything like what happened on Tuesday. This could go quite fast. The judge saying that potentially opening statements might start even on Monday.

Kara Scannell, thank you so much for all your reporting from inside court and out.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Joining us now on this is CNN Senior Legal Analyst, former Assistant US Attorney for the Southern District of New York, Elie Honig, and Criminal Defense Attorney and former Federal Prosecutor Seth Waxman. It's good to see you guys.

Elie, let's start with the social media post that Kara Scannell was just laying out. How close to the line did he get? Do you think it's a violation of the gag order?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: I do think it's a violation, Kate, I think it's over the line. If Donald Trump had simply typed out what he typed out, but not put quotation marks around it and attributed it to Jesse Watters, it would be a straight down the middle flagrant violation of the gag order. And I don't think Donald Trump's going to be able to convince the judge that he can get around it simply by attributing it to somebody else or taking something that somebody else said and reposting it.

And I want to note this, Kate, there are a few different classes of people, groups of people who were protected by this gag order. There's witnesses, there's court clerks, there's family members, but the jurors are the most important, the most sensitive needed -- need to be protected above all else.

[09:05:12]

BOLDUAN: Because the concern always is jury -- any kind of intimidation or perception of intimidation, all of that wrapped into that. Seth, you and I talked about this, not this exact social media posts but the idea of. On Tuesday, it's obviously up to the judge to decide what penalty, if any, to enforce, realistically, what do you think could happen here?

SETH WAXMAN, PARTNER, DICKINSON WRIGHT: Well, certainly he can start off by fining Donald Trump and continuing to increase those fines if the violations continue. As you and I last talked, you know, the remedy of incarcerating him is on -- it could be out there. I don't think that's likely. But he has a whole host of other tools. For example, he could tell Donald Trump, look, you have a sixth amendment right to be here to confront witnesses against you, but that's not absolute.

And if you continue down this path, I will remove you from this courtroom. And then if you continue posting on social media, you know, I can confine you to your house, I can put an ankle bracelet on you. And ultimately I can take away your social media, I can take away your internet access. So you know, that would be many steps down the road. But this judge is going to have to do something to try to constrain Donald Trump to make sure he's following the judge's rules.

BOLDUAN: Elie, let's talk about what's going to start back up today. Jury selections resuming very soon, a brand new panel of potential jurors about to walk in. How are they going to narrow down this pool of prospective jurors to fill these last five spots? What do you think?

HONIG: So Kate, here's how the process is going to go today, the judge is starting with a brand new panel of 96 potential jurors. And the first two questions he's going to ask are, A, do any of you have a hardship, a job related issue that prevents you from serving as a juror? And B, are any of you so biased for or against either side, in this case, that you just don't think you could be fair? And what the judge did the first time and he's going to do again, is essentially anyone who raises their hand in response to either of those questions, you're out, no questions asked. And last time that cut the pool by more than half, they lost 50 people.

Whoever remains after that will though then go through the questionnaire, the 42 questions that we see, we see some samples here up on the screen. After that the judge will decide if they should -- if they can stay on the jury based on their impartiality. And then after that, the parties will get to exercise what we call their peremptory challenges, meaning they can remove certain jurors they don't like for any reasons other than racially discriminatory reasons. Each side has four of those challenges left. And we'll see what this yield.

Last time it yielded seven. If we get another seven more out of this pool, we'll have 14. We need 12 plus up to six alternates. So we could get pretty close to that number at the end of this particular process.

BOLDUAN: And Seth, with four peremptory strikes left on either side, if you're at the console table, and you can pick which either side if you'd like, how do you plan to use these strikes when you're down to four?

WAXMAN: Yes, it's a chess game. I mean, you're sitting there holding back some strikes to make sure that if some jury at the end of the whole pool process, you know, is still there and that has not been struck for cause and is against your side. You want to have something in your back pocket to make sure that that one bad juror in your mind doesn't get on that jury to try this case. So it's a game of chess, and it's an art, not a science.

BOLDUAN: So Elie, the prosecutors have also revealed some of what they would be bringing up while potentially cross examining Trump, that is the big if, if he would take the stand. It's things like recent verdicts against him where he was found liable for a variety of things, and how he was fined for -- fine for violating a court order by publicly attacking a judge's law clerk. And another case, does this list -- does a list like this as I'm painting it in broad strokes, do you think it makes it more or less likely with the defense team knows about it that Trump would actually take the stand?

HONIG: Well, less likely for sure. I think we were already pretty close to 0.0. And I think this will make it even less likely than that if that's mathematically possible here. The purpose of this filing yesterday is to warn a defendant. It's a standard filing in New York State Court.

And what it says essentially is, if you choose to take the stand, you have that right, we will of course cross examine you about what we believe prosecutors believe is your guilt in this case, but also, we're going to ask you about these outside things that we believe bear on your truthfulness and credibility. Now the judge has to review these all, he has to vet them all. But to take one example, the fact that Trump was just found liable for the civil fraud, for inflating the assets, I think the judge is likely to look at that and say, sure, that bears on your credibility. So, Donald Trump and his lawyers are going to have to make a complicated and high stakes decision when the time comes whether he's going to testify, but I'm not holding my breath.

BOLDUAN: But I do love your legal math. It's good to see you guys. Thank you so much. [09:10:00]

John, I was told there's never math on the show, so I don't know what we do now.

BERMAN: I was told there would be no math.

House speaker Mike Johnson says let the chips fall where they may as he pushes to pass aid for Ukraine. Now those chips are falling. New reporting on the efforts to oust him.

The Kennedy family making a major show of force against one of their own RFK Jr. We've got new reporting on the plans for today.

And a woman detained by police who say she took her dead uncle to a bank to try to get a loan. No word yet from the uncle.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:15:08]

SIDNER: Any moment now the House Foreign aid package will face its first major test as the political future of House Speaker Mike Johnson hangs by a thread because of threats from -- in his own party. Some Republicans are urging Johnson now to change House rules raising the threshold required to oust a sitting speaker currently, as you will remember, a single member can force a floor vote on a motion to vacate the speaker's chair. It's part of that deal that Kevin McCarthy made to become speaker last year. It's what ended McCarthy's speakership, and now it's threatening Johnson's. Some rank and file Republicans want Johnson to change the rule by adding it to the foreign aid package. The House Rules Committee is set to consider that in less than an hour.

CNN's Lauren Fox is live outside the Democratic Congress caucus meeting at this hour. What are you hearing from leadership? Are you hearing anything from the Democrats? Because it looks like Johnson is going to have to reach across the aisle to try to get this done?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I actually just spoke briefly to Democratic leader Hakeem Jeffries as he entered that room. He said this is a conversation that his caucus needs to have. He looks forward to listening to members as he hears their concerns, their questions, their views, but they have not made an ultimate decision as a caucus yet.

And there's really two scenarios that they are looking at potentially having to help with right now. Sara, let me walk you through both of those. The first of them is this question of whether or not they are going to help with the rule related to these three supplemental packages. If that's all that's included, just getting over that threshold, there's a lot of support from rank and file Democrats that I have heard. I just talked with one of them, Representative Dan Kildee, he said, while traditionally, it would be the role of Republicans to pass those rules to get this process to the floor, he realizes that in this moment of global insecurity, it may be important, it may be in the world's best interest for Democrats to help.

Now there's a separate question, if that rule does include a change to the threshold of how many people it takes to try to oust a speaker on the floor, that becomes a lot more complicated for Democrats. And they are arguing that that would add a complication. Another level, Speaker Mike Johnson has not ultimately decided if that's the route that he wants to go. But there are members who are telling him that this is an opportunity to make that change.

The question for Democrats, is that seen as sort of helping the world at the same time as helping the Republican speaker, that could be much more complicated for Democrats to figure out. So this meeting that's happening behind me critical to deciding what the next few days look like, not just for this aid package, but also for the future of Speaker Mike Johnson. Sara.

SIDNER: More complications is never a good thing in this particular Congress. Lauren Fox, thank you so much for your reporting there.

John.

BERMAN: All right. With us now is Congresswoman Anna Paulina Luna, a Republican from Florida.

Congresswoman, thank you so much for being with us. Let's just do a bit of a whip count here, if we can, as things stand this morning, how will you vote on a to Ukraine?

REP. ANNA PAULINA LUNA (R-FL): As of right now, I'm not going to be voting for the rule. And I would like to point out that the previous commentator actually brought up a serious question on will this actually benefit the world? And I think it's important for the American people to know that within this package that they're trying to bring to the floor, there's actually funding of both sides of what's happening in Israel, as well as with Hamas, and I simply can't get behind that.

But you know, as far as it goes with the rule, and I know that she just had addressed whether or not there would be something within the actual legislation that would have a motion to vacate, I would urge the speaker not to change that. And I also know that there are Democrats that will also not support that, because that is a parliamentarian toolkit that has been around since the time of Thomas Jefferson and actually empowers the people, in this, the representative, over the speaker.

BERMAN: OK. So you're against the rule, you're against raising the threshold on a motion to vacate. Where do you stand right now, if there is a motion to vacate?

LUNA: You know, the first thing that I have always done, and I know it's kind of rare in Washington, but I listen to my constituents, and the one concern that I am hearing from my constituents is, is this chaos going to be good for the House in November? And so what I would urge people and what I have urged, not just speaker Johnson, but my colleagues is I think right now, sometimes the best way to defuse the situation, as you know tempers are pretty hot here in Washington, is to take a step back and just calm for a moment. And I would encourage all of my colleagues to do so. You know, when you're legislating with a hot head, nothing is accomplished for the American people. And I think that it would be a net negative.

BERMAN: So that means you're against right now the motion to vacate?

LUNA: As of right now, I'm leaning towards no, yes. But again, you know, it changes things that they're trying to change that threshold because ultimately --

BERMAN: Oh.

LUNA: -- even to Speaker McCarthy's credit, what happens is, is you're removing the power from the representative unless the American people. And we have to ensure that first and foremost we are legislating for them, not any one person or individual. And as you're seeing right now in Washington, much to my disappointment, you're seeing both sides fund the war in the Middle East.

[09:20:12]

BERMAN: OK. Staying on Ukraine for a second here, Nancy Pelosi, the former speaker called Speaker Johnson's decision to hold a vote on aid Ukraine courageous. What do you think about that?

LUNA: I think as of right now, that's likely not even going to happen, because as you know those different bills are supposed to come to the floor under one rule. For those who might be asking what that is, that's a parliamentary procedure that would allow the legislation to kind of be looped all into one yes or no vote to come to the floor.

But again, I went to actually Poland and I met with the Ukrainian parliament. And the reason why I've been so vocal, not only about actually ensuring that we know where that money is going, but really I think being hesitant about sending more is because of the fact that I was told by -- in a bipartisan delegation by the Ukrainian parliament speaker that they were trying to create a mercenary army with the equipment that we're giving them after Russia leaves Crimea, and I don't think that we should be funding that either. And so, again, you know, a lot of this messaging doesn't get out there to the American people. But what I will say is that, if the speaker wants to truly empower representatives on both sides, he needs to separate these bills, and he needs to bring them to the fullest separately and let the representatives vote --

BERMAN: OK.

LUNA: -- for their constituents,

BERMAN: There will be separate votes, ultimately on aid to Ukraine, in aid to Israel and aid to Taiwan, I do understand that ultimately, it may be repackaged as one thing when it moves to the Senate. I also want to ask, House Speaker Mike Johnson said his son is about to enter the Naval Academy, first of all, congratulations to his son and to the Johnson family. And He says he'd rather have the Ukrainian military equipped to fight Putin than force his son to do it. What do you think about that?

LUNA: I mean, I'm an Air Force veteran, and my husband was shot in Afghanistan in 2014, so I first and foremost know definitely the unfortunate blood that is shed by this country and our young people as a result of people up here Washington making decisions. And what I will tell you is currently right now with Ukraine, while we are sending money over there, there is no accountability. But I think even furthermore -- remember, Ukraine chose to not join NATO. They also, in addition to that, had decisions that they made early on that would basically enable them to support what we're doing here in the United States as far as fighting that and they chose not to.

So, again, it is not our fight to fight. We've given them a ton of aid. We've given them so much aid that we could have funded a second Marine Corps. I think that if you go to what's happening right now with the inflation that we're seeing in this country, in addition to, you know, let's take student loans, for example, and yet we're funding a foreign government. I simply don't agree with that.

BERMAN: Yes. It was also -- it was NATO, and the United States and others who didn't want Ukraine to enter back when it was an issue. Initially, I do want --

LUNA: I don't have to respectfully pushback on that because I disagree, but continue, sorry.

BERMAN: I -- you know, I appreciate that very much. If a motion to vacate does come to the floor, we just heard from Democrat Jared Moskowitz, I also heard from Democratic member Tom Swasey that they would try to block the motion to vacate. If it is Democrats who ultimately save the speakership from Mike Johnson, what will that tell you?

LUNA: I mean, look, I think that that's going to have to be something that will unfold in real time. But again, I think that Mike Johnson has a very clear decision to make. He knows the sentiments that exists within his Republican conference. And he's been on record multiple times, saying that he would not support Ukraine, but then also too, I just heard him say that he hasn't made a decision on changing the threshold and a motion to vacate. So, I don't know that that will actually come up.

But what I can tell you is my advice to the speaker and my advice to this Republican body is to give people a few days to calm tempers because as you know, no decisions will be made that are good for the American people when there's hotheads. But again, I mean, I would not think that that would be best for Republican speaker.

BERMAN: Representative Anna Paulina Luna, appreciate you being on this morning. Thanks so much.

LUNA: Thank you.

BERMAN: Right just in, the FCC launched an investigation a short time ago after 911 stopped working for millions of people. We're getting new information about these outages. And just minutes away from the opening bell on Wall Street, futures pointing higher this morning. Some welcome green in there after some four days in red. It's been a bad losing streak for the markets, one of the worst since the beginning of January. The downward trend sparked by fears over high interest rates and that anxiety is driving down stocks for some tech companies.

All right. Before -- we'll be watching all this very closely

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:29:11]

BOLDUAN: So next, our President Biden is heading to Philadelphia where he will get a major endorsement from the Kennedy family. This is more than just a show of support, it's a show of force from one of America's most storied political families. More than a dozen members of the family will join Biden at today's event, pointedly shunning the third party campaign of their own family member, Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. CNNs. Kevin Liptak is at the White House.

Kevin, what is this -- what is this meeting? What is President Biden hoping to get out of this meeting and this endorsement?

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes, I mean, it's quite a moment President Biden really trying to harness the legacy of the Kennedy family and ordinarily that wouldn't necessarily be a huge surprise. This is the most storied family and Democratic politics. But the intrigue really comes with the backdrop of the third party candidacy.