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2 Seated Jurors Excused on Day 3 of Trump Trial Jury Selection; NYPD Dispersing Protests at Columbia University; Republicans Divided Over Making Process of Ousting House Speaker More Difficult; Rep. Buddy Carter (R-GA) Discusses About Leadership Standing of Speaker Mike Johnson. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired April 18, 2024 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: The court drama continues. The judge and attorneys have five jurors selected to hear the criminal hush money case against former President Donald Trump, but they need at least seven more to complete the jury. Right now, prospective jurors are being grilled by the judge and lawyers, a delicate task with the fate of the former president potentially hanging in the balance.

And Risking It All: Speaker Mike Johnson appearing to be putting his job on the line as he moves forward with a deal that could provide aid to Ukraine and Israel. We'll take you live to Capitol Hill for the latest.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: And Caitlin Clark cashes in. The college star is about to start her pro career with a huge deal. It's just one more sign that Clark and her fellow stars could be ready to change the game.

We're following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

SANCHEZ: Right now, 18 potential jurors in the Trump hush money trial are facing additional questions from Donald Trump's defense team and the prosecution. They're in the running for 13 open slots on the jury. That's more than we started with today because two impaneled jurors were unexpectedly dismissed. One of them cited concerns that her identifying information had been made public and that concern is apparently weighing on the jury pool, at least according to one person who was dismissed earlier in the process.

That person says that when prospective jurors saw reports that identifying information was published by certain outlets on Tuesday, some felt "scared." Let's go back out to CNN Chief Legal Analyst and Anchor, Laura Coates, who's posted up outside of court.

Laura, this is a painstaking process. Yesterday we were welcoming the fact that it was moving so swiftly. We thought open arguments would begin on Monday. Now we've hit a speed bump. LAURA COATES, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: I mean, we were one step

forward, now it's two at least jurors back. And the process continues right now, Boris, to find an impartial panel of 18 jurors. Remember, that's 12 jurors, as we know needs to happen, plus six alternates.

Now, it might now become at least six alternates because of the pace at which we seem to be losing people on this jury pool.

Now, remember, these two jurors that were dismissed, they were not just prospective jurors. They had actually been seated, which means, of course, that the defense and the prosecution chose not to use either of their peremptory strikes. A fancy way of saying I'm going to exercise my prerogative to dismiss you for any reason that is lawful outside of race or gender or ethnicity.

These were essentially compromised people who you could say, listen, we agree that you could be impartial. Now they've lost two of those people and the reasons for doing so, the first one phoning in with the judge saying, listen, I know I was chosen, but I believe that my anonymity has been compromised and now I feel that I cannot be impartial.

A second one having answered a question, question 19 on that jury questionnaire form, which alludes to whether you've ever been arrested or committed a crime or prosecuted for such or one of your family members has been. Apparently, one of the jurors did not answer that question truthfully through the investigation we learned later from the DA's office, and so these two different areas.

At the end of the day, you're right. It's not a perfect system. It's not quite an honor system, but it is about self-reflection and self- disclosure. And then you've got, of course, the duty of the prosecution and the defense team to then maybe go beyond that and see, are there other reasons to doubt what this person is saying.

Now, for a fair trial to take place, it doesn't mean it's only fair if a certain result, either acquittal or conviction ends up. It's whether or not there is a jury of peers who can be impartial, listen to the evidence as presented, does not have an ax to grind or a personal stake in the matter, is willing to have an open mind to actually receive the evidence.

That's the goal of any trial. It's the right of any defendant, but it's proving more and more challenging as the hours - not just the days - go by.

SANCHEZ: Laura Coates, thanks so much for the update and perspective from outside the courtroom in Manhattan, Jessica?

DEAN: All right. Let's bring in CNN Legal Analyst and former federal prosecutor, Jennifer Rodgers.

Jennifer, great to have you. Thanks for being here.

[15:05:00] In court just now, one of the prosecutors reiterated that a number of

the expected trial witnesses have, what they said, some edge, including an adult film star, of course, Michael Cohen, who lied to Congress. What do you make of this strategy from the Manhattan DA's office to get out in front of this and say, look, we know these people are - have some edge?

JENNIFER RODGERS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, it's a very, very common strategy, Jessica, with cooperating witnesses. You want to do what's called draw the sting. They're going to hear about all this bad stuff. The person has pleaded guilty to serious crimes. They've done bad things.

In the case of Stormy Daniels, we're not talking about crimes, but a life that some jurors may not actually agree with. And so what they want to do is just put it out there, out in front, let everybody know about what it is, say this is who this person is.

And in this case, with jury selection, it's particularly important to get out in front of that because they now have an opportunity to keep that person off the jury if someone says, listen, I just don't trust that someone like that could tell the truth. I don't like people like that. That's the sort of thing that would be very helpful for prosecutors and the defense, of course, to know as they're selecting their jury. So that's why they're doing all that at this stage. It's a smart strategy.

DEAN: Yes. It's just a reminder that so much of this is about strategy and kind of playing a chess match in a way. I also want to talk a little bit about some of the jurors. We saw one juror be excused after saying they felt essentially too exposed. And we know that in Fulton County down in Georgia that some members of the grand jury there did receive threats.

Do you think that this jury should be sequestered? Is that something that would be appropriate in this situation?

RODGERS: Well, that's a good question. Sequestering a jury is a very serious thing. It's done very, very rarely and only when the judge thinks that there's a serious chance of jury tampering or some other threat to the jurors. So I think it's a last resort here. I don't think that anyone will be wanting to go in that direction now.

If, as we go along, there are threats coming in that the authorities deem serious or there's some reason to reconsider, I'm sure that the judge will, protecting the integrity of this. Proceedings and, of course, the safety of the jurors is paramount here. But I don't think anyone's willing to go there yet. That's a huge burden on the jurors and on the system. And so they like to use it only if absolutely necessary.

DEAN: Yes. And it brushes up against the notion of the safety of the jury, which you just mentioned. How much of a concern is that right now, because this is such an extraordinary case.

RODGERS: Well, I think each juror is going to have his or her own view of how safe that they feel. We know that one of the jurors who was excused today came in and said that she didn't really feel safe now that she felt that she had been identified and some may feel that way. Others may not be so concerned about that. It just kind of depends on the person.

Of course, if they got individual threats or, you know, saw someone following them or had some other specific reason to think that there was a safety problem, then that would change it altogether. But as of now, I think they're just thinking about: Am I going to be identified? What's that going to do to my life?

And if threats come in, then, of course, it's a whole another level of seriousness and the authorities would have to get involved.

DEAN: Sure thing. All right. We'll continue to monitor all of this.

Jennifer Rodgers, as always, it is great to see you. Thanks so much.

RODGERS: Thanks.

DEAN: Boris?

SANCHEZ: We're still following breaking news out of New York. Police have entered Columbia University to disperse dueling protests on campus. There are groups that are both pro-Palestinian and pro-Israel.

CNN Senior Crime and Justice Correspondent, Shimon Prokupecz, is there right now.

Shimon, walk us through what you're seeing. Things seem to have calmed down once some of the protesters actually moved into campus.

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. So mostly all of them are inside at this point. There's a few that are gathered outside. I don't know if they're students or not, but they're outside. But it's just past this gate here, Boris, where there's about 500 students that have gathered in the center of the university we're told that's pro-Palestine and pro-Israel groups that have gathered. There are speeches being made.

But around 1 o'clock, that is where everything started to happen. There was a pretty sizable police response, an escalation here by the university president. She had given warnings, the school had given warnings that students were going to be forced off the campus because they had set up tents. There were other things going on there. And then finally, the NYPD moved in.

They also gave warnings, telling students that if they don't leave, that they're going to be arrested. And then they started making arrests.

We're told that at least 30 people were taken into custody by the NYPD. They're being processed. They have been removed.

[15:10:00] But it's certainly an escalation for the university president to ask

the NYPD to come on campus in their riot gear and to start making arrests as they did, certainly has troubled many of the students here to see that kind of activity by police officers on their campus. But out here, certainly things have gotten a lot calmer, quieter out here. There's a small group gathered here. They're pretty peaceful and they're just chanting.

But the other thing, Boris, that I want to show you is just the security around the campus has definitely been stepped up. I've been on this campus before. You can easily just walk through. But today you see their security set up. They're checking students' IDs before they even let them in past the gates here, so definitely a difference here.

And like we said, at least 30 students were taken into custody by the NYPD. And certainly an escalation here that many of the students were not expecting.

SANCHEZ: Shimon Prokupecz live for us just outside the campus of Columbia University in New York.

Thanks so much, Shimon.

Coming up, as Israel is vowing to make its own decision about responding to Iran's most recent attack, there's renewed concern about the people in Gaza and how the escalation could worsen an already dire situation.

Plus, more chaos for House Speaker Mike Johnson. Will passing billions of dollars in foreign aid potentially cost him the speakership?

Plus, an erupting volcano already forcing hundreds of people to evacuate and it could trigger something even bigger, a tsunami. We'll explain as Mother Nature shows her force next on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

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DEAN: Right now, House Speaker Mike Johnson has a critical decision ahead of him that could have a major impact on his leadership. He's considering raising the threshold required to remove a speaker from power, it's what's known as the motion to vacate. And currently, any one member of the House can force a full vote on it.

But some conservative hardliners say if he changes how the process works, they're likely to induce that very motion to oust him. They're also weighing whether to give him the boot over his proposed foreign aid package, which includes billions of dollars for Ukraine. Johnson said he's going to stick to his plan to put the series of bills up for a full vote on the House floor this Saturday.

Let's go live to Capitol Hill and CNN's Melanie Zanona.

And, Melanie, for now, today, at this moment, Mike Johnson still has his speakership and the gavel. But this is continuing to evolve kind of minute by minute.

MELANIE ZANONA, CNN CAPITOL HILL REPORTER: Yes, that's exactly right. And we should point out in terms of timing here, a motion to vacate has not been brought yet. And the House floor is closed for the rest of the day. So the earliest that someone could try to force a vote is tomorrow. Even then, it would still take two days to actually schedule that vote.

But Speaker Mike Johnson is still actively working to try to head off that scenario entirely. As you mentioned, a number of Republicans have been heavily lobbying Johnson to change that motion to vacate tool and essentially make it harder for any single member to force a floor vote on that.

As you may recall, that was something that former Speaker Kevin McCarthy agreed to as a concession to become speaker in the first place. But this idea of now changing the motion to vacate has sparked some blowback on the far-right and really left Republicans divided about how to proceed. Just listen.

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REP. STEVE SCALISE (R-LA): A lot of our members would like to see the threshold change because of that, so that we can get back to the work that we need to do and not have that as a constant threat over our Republican majority in the House.

REP. MATT GAETZ (R-FL): Our goal is to avoid a motion to vacate, but we are not going to surrender that accountability tool, particularly in a time when we're seeing America's interests subjugated to foreign interests abroad.

REP. LAUREN BOEBERT (R-CO): Changing the threshold for the motion to vacate, that's been my redline this entire Congress. That's what I fought for in the rules package, among other things. But that was my redline then, it's my redline now.

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ZANONA: And just a sign of how tense things are right now. There was a heated discussion on the House floor this morning involving Speaker Johnson and some of those hardline members at one point, Republican congressman Derrick Van Orden, who is a Johnson ally, jumped in. He referred to Matt Gaetz as tubby.

And the hardliners were also pressing Johnson for a commitment that he wasn't going to change that motion to vacate tool. But at this moment, Johnson has not made any decisions.

DEAN: All right. A lot of mature behavior going on there on the House floor clearly. Is there any indication, Melanie, at this point - there has been some talk that Democrats may save Johnson both to get this foreign aid package done, but also if it comes to his speakership as well. What are you hearing about that?

ZANONA: Yes, there are active discussions inside the Democratic caucus right now, not only just about saving Johnson's speakership, but also Democrats putting up the votes for a key procedural vote for those foreign aid bills. Democrats do want to see those bills passed. They're also sick of the chaos in the House as well.

And so there is some openness on behalf of Democrats to stepping in and bailing out Johnson. But we should get some more clarity later today because that is when the House Rules Committee is going to meet, and they will take their first vote to advance those package of foreign aid bills, Jess.

DEAN: Yes, that's going to be the one to watch, nothing like a good Rules Committee meeting. Melanie, thanks so much.

All right. Boris?

SANCHEZ: Let's get some perspective on all of this with Republican congressman Buddy Carter of Georgia.

Congressman, thank you so much for sharing part of your afternoon with us.

[15:20:00]

It's quite possible that the Speaker will have to cut a deal with Democrats to save his job. What does that tell you?

REP. BUDDY CARTER (R-GA): Well, I'm not so sure he's going to have to cut a deal. I mean, let's face it, Mike Johnson has been fair. He's been even-handed. He's doing the right thing and I think people realize that. I think that the American public realizes it. I think Democrats realize it and I think most Republicans realize it. But I don't think he's going to have to cut a deal in order to save his speakership.

SANCHEZ: The speaker has been lobbied by members to include in this package of foreign aid bills that he's trying to pass over the weekend, some language that would alter the structure of the motion to vacate, to up the threshold, to make it harder for him to be removed. He seems open to it, but some Republicans are saying that if he does, that would be a reason to push forward the motion to vacate. Would you support that shift? What's your message to those fellow members of your party?

CARTER: Well, I - look, I hope we don't have a motion to vacate. I would support increasing the number of votes that it would take in order to bring about a motion to vacate. I thought that last October, the treatment of Kevin McCarthy was totally inappropriate and totally unnecessary. But nevertheless, the will of the majority, the will of the party, will come out and we'll have to see if it changes or not. But, you know, one vote, I think that's pretty ridiculous, to be quite honest with you.

SANCHEZ: Congressman, you argue that he may not need to broker a deal with Democrats to save his job, but when it comes to the aid bills themselves, he likely will need help from Democrats to get them to pass, even through committee, because there are members of the Rules Committee, Republicans, who are threatening to tank these aid bills, to not pass a rule that would allow these aid bills to hit the floor. They already tanked a border bill that he wanted to attach to the package. I'm wondering what you would say to those members of your conference.

CARTER: Well, it's certainly disappointing. I hope that we will be able to get the votes on the Republican side to get the rules out. But if we don't, then you don't always have to cut a deal to do the right thing. Let's keep that in mind. I mean, there are Democrats who realize this is the right thing to do and we don't always vote just partisan and along parting lines.

I mean, I know that I and a lot of my colleagues on my side of the aisle, and I suspect. I hope that the case is the same with Democrats. We vote our conscience and we vote what we think is right.

SANCHEZ: That's absolutely fair. Some Democrats, though, have called for limitations, for example, on the way that aid is sent to Israel. They want to see adjustments in the way that aid is sent based on the way that the IDF has carried out its war in Gaza and you may need that Democratic support to get these bills through committee. Do you think there's any way that your priorities might be limited based on the way that these deals are written and brokered to get Democratic support?

CARTER: I don't think so. I don't think that our leadership and I certainly don't think our conference is willing to compromise in order to just get something passed. This is important. We - Israel is our ally. They're our greatest ally in the Middle East. The only democracy in the Middle East. We've got to get money there.

Let's keep in mind now we've already got a bill over in the Senate to send money to Israel and it's been there and it's paid for. So we're having to do something over again that we shouldn't have to do over.

SANCHEZ: Speaker Johnson was asked about why there's been a delay in trying to get this foreign aid package in the House that, as you noted, is very similar to what was passed in the Senate. Johnson says the House didn't pursue this earlier because "it takes a long time to socialize and build consensus when you have the smallest majority in U.S. history."

Why do you think it took so long to ultimately get to this point?

CARTER: Well, I think that the Speaker makes a good point. I mean, we've got a majority today of two. In Saturday afternoon, I suspect it will be down to one, the slimmest majority ever in the history of the House of Representatives. It's difficult and we have - ours is a big tent in the Republican Party and we have a lot of different opinions and sometimes it is difficult to get a consensus.

But I'm convinced that we're right on policy. I'm convinced that we're going to do the right thing here. I still have confidence and faith that we will do that.

SANCHEZ: Would you like to see some of those Republicans on the rules committee resign? [15:25:03]

CARTER: That's not my decision to make. That's the Speaker. The rules committee has generally been. The Speaker's committee and it's decided by the Committee on Assignments, so - and I'm not on the Committee on Assignments, so it's not my place to say, but I know it's a very important role and I certainly hope that they're not going to be obstructionist. And I just think they're trying to do what they think is right.

SANCHEZ: Congressman Buddy Carter, thanks so much for sharing your views with us.

CARTER: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Appreciate it.

So we're still closely following jury selection in former President Donald Trump's Manhattan criminal trial as dozens of potential jurors are dismissed for saying they can't be impartial. Two jurors that had already been impaneled have been removed.

Plus, some big play - rather from big plays to big money, the massive endorsement deal reportedly in Caitlin Clark's future as she helps turn women's basketball on its head.

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