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Five Alternate Jurors Selected, At Least One More Needed; Fire Breaks Out Near Courthouse Where Trump's Trial Is Underway; Full Jury And Panel Of Alternates Selected For Trump's Criminal Trial. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired April 19, 2024 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[13:30:49]

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: And breaking news. While we were in that break, another alternate juror seated in the hush money case against Donald Trump. Lawyers in his first criminal trial could start their opening statements in this case by Monday.

And today, they're trying to select this final -- these final jurors.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Yes, we could potentially see those closing arguments fairly soon.

Moments ago, that other alternate that Jessica mentioned was chosen. So five of the six are in place. We believe one more is needed to be in paneled.

Let's get straight to CNN anchor and chief legal analyst, Laura Coates. She's outside the court in New York.

Laura, it's moving pretty quick.

LAURA COATES, CNN ANCHOR & CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: A lot of buzz happening. As my father would say, now we're cooking with gas. Because you're one away from history actually starting on a historic criminal trial.

Opening statements would begin probably on Monday if they're able to impanel this full jury today. Remember, so far today, at least six people had been already excused from doing alternate jury duty.

But several of them got very emotional, citing stress and anxiety before they were dismissed from the pool.

But we know that we are now one away, one alternate juror away who might ultimately sit in this trial at least before deliberations. We have course already had the original 12 selected as of yesterday.

I want to bring in an attorney and jury consultant, Renato Stabile.

Renato, you have been part of this process known as voir dire or from the, voir dire, many times. What is standing to you about this one? The pace?

RENATO STABILE, ATTORNEY & JURY CONSULTANT: Yes, the pace, and especially now with the alternates, keep in mind, collectively, the parties had 24 peremptory strikes available to them to see if these alternates -- they only had 20 for the regular 12 jurors.

So you have more peremptories for the six alternates. So it looks like they're not really using a lot of their peremptories. They could really take their pick here. But it is moving very, very quickly.

COATES: And, Renato, coming in just now, we have learned just now they've got the sixth alternate jury. We have a panel of 18 jurors. The jury is now complete in what will be an historic criminal trial of a former United States president, that being Donald Trump. History will be made in this moment.

Now the number 270 for electoral count votes is not the issue for a candidate who is some 200 days away from a presidential election. Now, the number is 18, who may decide the fate of whether he will be convicted or acquitted in these historic charges.

So the question now becomes, will they have enough because a high- profile trial such as this, would six alternates be enough for those to sit and deliberate?

STABILE: Look, it may, it may not. I mean, I think it probably will. I don't think the trial is going to go as long as they are predicting. I think they're predicting another five weeks. It probably won't go another five weeks. I don't think it's that complicated.

But for sure the alternates are going to come into play. Because in a case like this, you're going to lose some of the regular jurors.

COATES: It's really unbelievable to think about where we are.

And by the way, who is on his jury is going to be very important. You and I both know that the prosecution, the defense are going to add the tailoring to their arguments, not only with a nod towards what burden of proof path, but now who the audience is going to be.

And you've got at least two lawyers who are empanelled on the jury. Many people think, what, a lawyer on a jury? That's a bad idea. What do you think?

STABILE: It is very unusual for either side to really want lawyers on the jury. That's because, if you're wrong about that person, you know, they're going to be a leader in the jury room.

The other jurors are going to look to them for their sort of legal analysis, even though they're not supposed to be instructing them on the law, they kind of can't help themselves.

So it's a big gamble. It's a big risk. But on the defense, I think it's a very bold move.

COATES: You know, the risks involved, if you're the prosecution, you don't want the lawyer on the jury the one that the other jurors look to clarify points. You want those to be questions to the judge if you need to communicate with them. If you're the defense side, maybe you want the lawyer on the panel.

Does that suggest, hold on, they haven't really met some burden of proof or there's more of a nuance. Either way, there's a risk that could be posed to either side here.

[13:35:06]

But think about this now. We know some information about these juries -- jurors. We know that, as of yesterday, at least one juror was concerned about sitting on this particular jury because she believed her anonymity would be compromised.

Walk me through, from a consultant's perspective, going from now on. The fact that we have some information now, will the defense and the prosecution continued to have access to the personal profiles of the jurors in this case.

And if they can, if they're made aware of issues, what happens next?

STABILE: Yes. So for sure, I think both sides are going to be monitoring their jurors' social media very carefully. Of course, they're going to be instructed by the court that they can't post anything about the case. They can't comment on the case.

But look, it's happened in other cases. Jurors, you know, don't always follow the rules. And so everybody is going to be paying very close attention to see if anybody violates the rules, bring that to the attention of the court, and that juror will be dismissed.

COATES: Renato, would you recommend for the judge, if you were consulting on this case or for the prosecution and defense team, would you recommend this to be a sequestered jury?

We don't know right now whether these 18 are going to be able to go home each and every night, whether they'll have to actually stay, or be distant from their families with the thought of potentially having these issues at all. What do you say?

We also were seeing -- an active shooter? An active shooter is in the park outside the courthouse. We have a man who is literally -- he has set fire to himself. A man has emblazoned himself outside of the courthouse just now.

Our cameras are turning right now. A man has now lit himself on fire outside of the courthouse in Manhattan where were waiting for history to be made. A full jury panel is gone.

We are watching a man who is fully emblazoned in the front of the courthouse today. We're watching multiple fires breaking out around his body and person. We have seen an arm that has been visible that has been engulfed in total flames.

There is chaos and it's happening. People who are wondering right now if people are in danger.

I'm looking across the -- across the courtyard. There is a man racing to his aid. There's (INAUDIBLE) coming up to try to put out the fire. We have members of security details. NYPD is rushing to the scene.

They are trying to come now. Officers are on the scene. A fire extinguisher is right now present, being put on this man to try to put it out.

People are climbing over barricades to try to separate the public, to put out the flame on this man. He has lit himself out in fire in front of the courthouse right now.

We are watching as the flames -- we can smell the air. I can smell the burning of some sort of a flesh. I can smell the burning of some sort of agent being used as well as an accelerant to put that fire.

I smell an actual fire extinguisher, having been displayed. I see a person whose body appears to be on the ground being surrounded by officers. Multiple officers. I've counted about a dozen officers on scene.

The fire is still burning. It's now in multiple locations. It continues to -- continues to blaze.

We right now have officers who are moving their coats, trying to surround this person. To douse their bodies to prevent them from further going into flames.

You can smell --I here with Evan Perez. You can smell burning flesh. You can smell an accelerant. The flames are continuing to engulf his person.

I hear shouts that are coming from across the courtyard. I have people running over. Another fire engine being brought out.

This person's body continues to be engulfed in flames. A portion of his body is still engulfed in flames. Yellow smoke is billowing from on top of his person as he's engulfed. And the officers who are continuing to try to put out the flames are continuing to move blazon (ph).

Now the officers are not visible through the gulf and the cloud of smoke that is happening. This man or this person -- we're unable to identify by the gender of this person. The body has been engulfed in flames for at least now 30 to 40 seconds.

They have a third attempt at extinguishing this person's fire around their body. We have no idea who this person is or the why.

A minute before we saw this happen, you heard shots happening. You saw a Trump flag that was running from the area as scream rang out.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME & JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: We have arms.

COATES: We have some arms continuing to be engulfed in flames. I have an EMT officer who was taking off his backpack trying to put out the fire and render aid.

This person's body has now been in flames for over a minute long.

PEREZ: Over a minute.

COATES: You can continue to smell the burning of flesh, a burning of an agent.

FDNY is on the scene. An ambulance is behind this as well. NYPD is blocking off the entire area. They're walking away. Gloves are being put on. A barricade around his body. They are looking down at the person.

The smoke continues to billow and also the lingering elements of a flame coming from his body.

They're contending another time to remove flames in the area. As now, we have multiple -- at least three different fire extinguishers are attempting to put out the flames on this person's body. It seems the very end of the claims are now gone as barricades are around the person.

I see no bodily movements from the ground, no movement from a human being on the ground. Officers walking away. In the distance, I can hear an ambulance coming down.

[13:40:02]

NYPD is on the scene. They're looking at the scene and trying to figure out what to do next. They are moving (ph) this person around.

As, Evan Perez, right here on the scene. I can smell smoke. I can smell --

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PEREZ: You can smell the accelerant, whatever it is that he -- the person put on themselves to burn is clearly the big smell that we're getting right now.

COATES: Yes.

PEREZ: There was a point where I saw his arm go up. And it's not clear whether that was just a body react --

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PEREZ: -- reacting to --

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PEREZ: -- or whether the flames, right? And right now, they're trying to administer some kind of first aid to him.

He's -- you know, obviously, the person's body is still on the ground there and -- COATES: There is no movement. We all see that. We hear -- we heard an ambulance coming.

To understand where we are right now, it is a high-traffic zone around the courthouse. You already had a number earlier in the week. You had Mayor Adams on the scene to talk about the amount of law enforcement presence that would be here.

Remember, a former president of United States is inside of the courthouse. Secret Service, law enforcement details all present for the threat of security rises.

It has led there to be a lot of congestion behind us in this particular area. It's also making it difficult for the ambulance to get through to the location of where a burning human being is laying on the ground motionless while they have tried to give him some form of health aid and first aid care.

You see at least one EMT standing down. They are trying to not -- here is a stretcher coming out. We're about to see this body be lifted off the ground that has been engulfed in flames for over three minutes in time. Although the flames have totally dissipated, the cloud of smoke is still there.

We're getting ready, Evan, to see what no human beings should see.

I see a totally charred human being. His arms are expectedly outright.

PEREZ: Right.

COATES: His leg is down. It appears to be a man. His entire body is covered in a white -- type of shock.

We're going to go to break. We'll be right back and reset in just a moment. A man engulfed in flames, had lit himself on fire outside of the Manhattan courtroom just as history being made, a full jury panel. We are watching this person. He's come out.

We'll be right back.

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[13:46:33]

SANCHEZ: Breaking news to CNN. Some dramatic and disturbing moments outside of the courthouse in Manhattan.

Just as history was being made and a full jury was empanelled to oversee the hush money payments case against former President Donald Trump, a person outside the courthouse, apparently engulfed in flames, sent first responders rushing to the scene, not far from where our crews are stationed just outside of the courthouse.

That person immediately got medical attention and was rushed out of the scene. We understand that this was happening as court was adjourning for lunch. Our reporters in the room say that a Secret Service agent then approached former President Trump and was seen speaking to Trump shortly before the former president exited the room.

Still unclear exactly what transpired out there. It is an ugly scene, to say the least.

DEAN: It absolutely is.

I want to go back out to Laura Coates and Evan Perez. They were standing there.

Laura, you guys were standing there as this happened. It's worth noting that there is a gigantic security presence all around that area as this trial is going underway.

We know New York City had been preparing this, coordinating with the Secret Service as they moved forward through this.

What else are you seeing happen right now?

COATES: What an extremely disturbing set of events. We are standing here, Evan and I, still smelling not only smoke, but what appears to be human flesh as well. The disturbing nature of this cannot be overstated.

A man appeared to engage in a kind of self-immolation, although we are unclear as the nature of the incendiary device or otherwise that prompted this fire.

But this, as we are obviously in the presence, about 100 yards away from where this took place shortly toward -- a short distance away from where there were Trump signs and people gathering.

In support of the former president of the United States outside of a Manhattan courtroom today where, of course, history is being made with now the empanelling of a full trial jury, including alternates.

This taking place, causing chaos to unleash here.

And, Evan, we are in a place where people expected, because a former president was in this building, that there was a heightened law enforcement presence. Mayor Adams to come earlier in the week to check on the amount of presence that would be here.

Little did we know that that police presence and emergency assistance would actually come to the aid of somebody who was set on fire.

PEREZ: Right. Look, I mean, the police have put up a cordon around this area to get access to the park right here. There is -- there are some barriers.

But that area is clearly reserved for people to protest. There have been just a couple of -- of pro-Trump protesters who have been out there with their signs. We haven't seen a very, very large crowds. Certainly, at other Trump

hearings or court events, we've seen a larger presence. So it was a complete shock to have something like this happen, obviously.

You can still see smoke coming from the ground, an area where this all happened in the middle of the park.

But one of the things that, Laura, I think that is important for us to mention is that the NYPD and the New York City have kind of made it a point to keep this area functioning normally, as normally as possible.

They have these cordons.

COATES: Right.

PEREZ: But they've -- they've tried to maintain public access because this is obviously a big part, a central part of lower Manhattan, downtown Manhattan, with all these courts and city hall is right over there. The federal building is over here.

[13:50:07]

COATES: Yes.

PEREZ: So the fact people have access here is frankly something that a lot of us have been concerned about, about how open the axis has been. And for someone like that to be able to get this close and do something like that, obviously, a major concern about the security of this area.

COATES: We are following to get more information as well.

But I just have to tell you, I have been a student of history for a long time. I cannot under or overstate the emotional response of watching a human being engulfed in flames.

PEREZ: Right.

COATES: And to watch his body be lifted into -- on a gurney.

Here we are, knowing that we're here to document history, but to know about what has just taken place.

Boris, Jessica, what an emotional and unbelievably disturbing moment here in Manhattan.

DEAN: Yes.

SANCHEZ: Yes, Laura, as we process what happened outside of court, we're going to wait to get more information about exactly what transpired and who potentially was involved.

We do want to focus on what was happening inside the courtroom before that happened outside. And it was a huge moment in the case. A full jury was empanelled to try the case against a former president, the first time that is ever happened. DEAN: Right. That is right.

And so let's talk more about that with Paula Reid. She's here now.

Paula, we have the full jury. This is step one completed. And so now let's talk about what comes next because there's something called a Sandoval hearing.

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

DEAN: Walk us through what that is. Because what it is, essentially, my understanding is, they're going to look at Trump's history -- criminal history and decide how much of it they can talk about if he takes the stand.

REID: Yes, this will be fascinating to watch because, while this is a pretty routine hearing that you'd have before a criminal trial, the reason they're going to have this is because there is a real chance that Trump will testify here.

In speaking with sources familiar with their thinking, they are absolutely considering this, even though you've heard many experts say this is not a good idea.

But Trump -- this is something that he clearly wants to do. And his team believes that he can do this successfully. But they want to see how the trial goes.

Now during this hearing, they will discuss what he can be asked about on cross-examination.

And what's going to be fascinating to watch is this increasing tension between the prosecution and the defense, right? We saw that the prosecution said they won't even share their witness list with the Trump team, assuming things start on Monday.

And that's because they don't trust the former president not to tweet about those witnesses because he has done that, possibly in violation of his gag order already.

You're seeing the tension between the two sides start to ratchet up. And the focus of this hearing is going to be what prosecutors can ask Trump about if he takes the stand. So this is going be something to watch.

SANCHEZ: You mentioned the not sharing of the witness list by the prosecution. The defense tried to assure the court that he wouldn't post anything. The judge at least was very skeptical.

How does this potentially set up the defense to be at a disadvantage once court -- once the case gets underway?

REID: It's a huge disadvantage to not know who's going to take the stand. Because while they know the universe of witnesses that can be called, it certainly helps to focus your preparation and be ready for the two or three people who might take the stand on Monday. But this -- this is the legal consequence of Trump's political

attacks, these efforts to try to undermine trust in the trial. The statements that he has made, attacking witnesses, like Michael Cohen and Stormy Daniels, this is the consequence that there is no trust.

This is a courtesy that the district attorney's office said they would normally extend, but they're not going to do it here.

And not only did the judge agree with them and didn't force them to share it. He suggested that he doesn't believe that they can control their client.

Which is probably true, but again, not something that the defense attorneys want to hear.

So this has got to be incredibly frustrating to the Trump defense team.

DEAN: Yes. And look, there are consequences for violating gag orders and behaving that way.

All right. Stay with us, Paula.

I want to go out to Kara Scannell, who is just outside that courthouse in New York.

And, Kara, you just got out of court. They're taking a short break. What's the latest?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Are they talking?

Sorry, guys. I missed you. I didn't hear what you said.

But I just came out of court where they finally have seated the six alternates. Five of those alternates were seated today.

What we know about them is that what is a woman from Spain. Another is the man who is a native New Yorker. We also know there's a woman who is a contract special, another -- two females. One works for a clothing company and one is a project manager.

Now, the judge decided to keep this-- to keep court in session a little later than usual, so we can get through the jurors that were already in the room today. They started with 22. We've got the five alternate jurors.

[13:55:03]

Now, we -- as we went through this voir dire, what was interesting in today's session, which was different from the other ones, is that two of the jurors, before the attorneys began questioning them, specifically.

But as the attorney questioning was underway, they both become emotional and said that they didn't feel that they could do this. One of them saying that this was much more stressful than she had

thought. And so the judge, with the consent of the attorneys, excused those jurors.

But now that we have the full set of alternatives and the 12 jurors that were selected yesterday, the judge told all the jurors before dismissing them today to be ready to go on Monday. And then we'll have opening statements in this case.

So certainly, a historic moment having the full panel of jurors now seated to hear former President Trump's first criminal trial related to the falsified documents.

This afternoon, after the lunch break, the judge is going to take up what's known as the Sandoval hearing. And that is a hearing where they will discuss the scope of the cross-examination if Donald Trump does choose to testify.

And that means whether the prosecution can ask him about certain past legal acts. That includes a number of these verdicts and judgments against Trump, including the E. Jean Carroll defamation case and the civil fraud judgment that was handed down earlier this year.

That will all be discussed this afternoon. Trump's attorneys are pushing back on that. But that will -- we'll also learn a little bit more about what the prosecution's leeway would be if Trump were to testify.

Certainly, a decision that is likely to come later into the trial. But as for now, we have the full jury. Jury selection is over and opening statement statements can begin as soon as Monday.

SANCHEZ: A major moment in the case, no doubt.

Kara, thank you so much.

I do want to let our viewers know CNN has confirmed that, according to two law enforcement sources, the person that was engulfed in flames outside of the courthouse set themselves on fire.

Again disturbing moments right outside the courthouse during this historic chapter in Donald Trump's legal woes. We're going to keep an eye on all the latest developments and bring you all the details as we get them.

Stay with CNN. We're back in just moments.

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