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Man Sets Himself on Fire Outside Courthouse; Donald Trump's Hush Money Trial Progresses; Sandoval Hearing Scheduled; Middle East Tensions Escalate; International Diplomacy and Security Concerns. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired April 19, 2024 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BTREAK)

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: This is CNN Breaking News. We're following breaking news. Our team outside the Manhattan courthouse where former President Donald Trump's hush money trial is happening just witnessed a disturbing scene. A man set himself on fire near the location where they were going live. It happened just moments after the court impaneled the full 12-member jury. A historic moment.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: It was. Let's get right out to CNN's Laura Coates. And Laura, you were standing there interviewing a guest. When this all happened. And I know this was deeply jarring and affecting to watch this happen. Walk us through what you saw happen outside the courthouse.

LAURA COATES, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: Well, we were standing, as you know, just outside of the Manhattan courtroom when history had just been made by a fully impaneled jury. And we thought we were reporting on that history. Instead, life would change the course of events here today when a group of people who were standing near an area that, at once, had a Trump flag that was waving in the wind in the courtyard area. And a group of people began to scream.

Our attention was turned towards that area as onlookers saw some sort of pamphlets go up in the air. Immediately, over the course of what has come to describe modern American history, we at first thought it was an active shooter to look to the area where people were running away from. At that point, I saw a man lift his arm and appear to put something on his body, followed by flames. That engulfed his entire person. It not only lit his body into flames, but the area around him. People were screaming around the area and an immediate smell came around from not only some form of a chemical accelerant, but also from the scent of burning flesh.

Now, we had people in this area, law enforcement is all around, including Mayor Adams at one point on Monday, who'd come by to witness the presence of police. Remember, an American president was sitting inside of this courthouse, Secret Service, law enforcement detail in the heart of Manhattan, an arear where law enforcement is well known to be. It's in front of an active courthouse. They all ran. You saw many officers who were taking off their coats trying to stop the flames from coming. He has been taken away on a gurney. Now we see a number of people in the area trying to pick up pamphlets all across the park around us, police officers, law enforcement detail. We're trying to get a sense of what was on those pamphlets as well. And we'll bring you the latest reporting as soon as we have it.

DEAN: Laura Coates for us there outside the courthouse in Manhattan. Laura, thank you so much. And just to remind everybody kind of where we sit right now, we have this fully empaneled jury. History has been made. The first ever former president to face criminal trial. It is moving ahead. We now have an eye toward Monday where the judge is expecting to begin opening arguments. Now, as that was happening, we were talking about that news. Laura was talking about that news. That is when this person appeared to set themselves on fire just outside that courthouse.

SANCHEZ: We'll, of course, continue to monitor that news and bring you the latest details as we get them. But we do want to focus on what was happening in court. We have with us CNN legal correspondent, chief legal correspondent Paula Reid, also CNN legal analyst and former federal prosecutor Jennifer Rodgers. Paula, first to you, we are anticipating the Sandoval hearing this afternoon. And effectively, this is going to detail what aspects of Donald Trump's legal history could be entered into this case.

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, this could be pretty fiery given the circumstances here, the increasing tensions between prosecutors and defense attorneys. And the reason they're having this hearing is because Trump and his team, they are seriously considering having him testify in this case. That is surprising to many people because most experts would agree that is probably not a good idea based on his previous appearances in other civil cases and how he's conducted himself so far. But look, his defense,attorneys they believe that he could handle himself and hopefully help his case. So during this hearing they're gonna go through what would be inbounds for prosecutors to cross-examine him about if he takes the stand. So this is gonna be really interesting to watch.

DEAN: It sure is.

[14:05:09]

Let's also go out to Jennifer now. And Jennifer, now that we have all of these jurors that have been in panel for this historic jury, we've learned that during this process, several prospective jurors got emotional during their questioning. Is that unusual for jury selection? Does it speak at all to kind of the unique and high-profile nature of this case and the pressures that exist around it? I think it absolutely does.

JENNIFER RODGERS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It is not normal for jurors to get emotional. Sometimes prospective jurors get annoyed, right, that they're going to have to sit and not go to work or do whatever they normally do. But I think it just shows the pressure that they will be under, right, the safety concerns they may have, the fact that for the rest of their lives, they will be public personas, at least, even if people don't know their names, right, they will have participated in a historic event. And then not to mention the pressure of deciding the first criminal case ever against a former President. So I think that it's not surprising that people are concerned about serving, emotional about serving, anxious about serving, and all of those things. And I think we may continue to see that. I'm afraid we haven't seen the last of a juror saying, I'm not sure I can do this. That may happen even after the trial starts, which is why it's a good thing that the judge impaneled six alternates.

SANCHEZ: Jennifer, I'm curious about the way, you mentioned security concerns, and I'm curious about the way what we watched unfold outside of the courthouse could impact the proceedings in the sense that there may be an argument to potentially change venue or to further secure the courtroom itself. Any indication as to how that ugly incident might change the way that this case proceeds?

RODGERS: Well, I think it depends what we learn, Boris. I mean, if you're assuming that the person who set themselves on fire was a rabid Trump supporter and that it was some sort of protest against the trial, and then take the logical leap that someone who feels that way may also try to harm jurors, then sure, I can see a juror saying, wow, people feel so strongly about this. I'm concerned about it. But we don't know that yet. There is a ton of security around the courthouse as it is. It actually sits in the middle of a bunch of law enforcement headquarters, and offices anyway. And then, of course, for the trial, security is even further beefed up. So I think and hope that the jurors should not take anything away from it, certainly at this point. And I'm sure that the court staff will do whatever they feel needs to be done if there does need to be an increase.

DEAN: And Paula, I want to come back to you as we await the next step in all of this, which is this hearing where they're going to go through Trump's criminal history and decide what they can talk about if he decides to testify. When you're talking to Trump allies, and if you're his defense team, what are they hoping to get out of this? I know that there is this thought that he actually may well testify.

REID: Yeah, they believe that he has learned lessons. He's been through multiple civil trials just in the past year, about a block away from where they are now. They believe that if he saw what worked there, he saw what didn't work for him there, and that he would be prepared to take the stand in a way that would be constructive for his case. Now, we'll see how that goes in reality. But, of course, they would hope that prosecutors would not be able to bring in most of the largely civil history that he has or any allegations of criminal conduct. Because, of course, this is his first criminal trial. He's never been convicted criminally, but he has had a lot of civil litigation in his past. So I'm sure they want to bring in as little as possible.

SANCHEZ: We want to bring in CNN's Kara Scannell to the conversation. She's outside the courthouse for us. She's been in the courtroom throughout the day. Kara, what can you tell us about, exactly what's going to happen when we get back from this break for lunch?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, now that they've seated this full jury and all six alternates, the judge has sent them home and told them all to come back Monday morning, where he expects there will be opening statements. Now, this afternoon, when this interview gets underway, or excuse me, when the hearing gets underway, and they'll discuss the Sandoval issue, that is how much of Trump's past legal issues they can bring up will be debated between the attorneys. Now, prosecutors want to bring up several recent verdicts. That's the E.G. and Carol verdicts, where Trump was found to have sexually abused her and defamed her. Also, the big civil fraud judgment, nearly half a billion dollars, where the judge found that Trump had engaged in persistent and repeated fraud and did not find his testimony on the stand to be credible. So these are all issues prosecutors think that the jury should be able to hear Donald Trump challenged on if he does take the stand. That his lawyers are expected to oppose this.

We have not heard their arguments. Yet they have not filed any public papers on it. But this will all play out shortly after the lunch break this afternoon.

[14:10:09]

And the judge is expected to make a decision, if not today, certainly before Donald Trump testifies and likely before opening statements, because it may shape some of the things that the lawyers will say in those opening statements. But this will take place this afternoon, now that they've got the biggest thing done that they needed to do. And that was to select the full jury, 12 jurors, six alternates, now in place for this trial to get underway. Boris.

SANCHEZ: Kara Scannell, Paula Reid, Jennifer Rogers, thank you all so much. We're going to continue to follow all the breaking news into CNN. A full jury seated now for the historic trial against Donald Trump. And we're expecting an update from the NYPD within the hour about that incident that took place outside of court. Stay with us. We'll be right back.

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[14:15:09]

DEAN: There is great concern for what could happen next in the Middle East after the latest salvo between Israel and Iran. U.S. officials say Israel carried out a military strike on Iran overnight. Explosions were reported near a major Iranian military airbase. Now, Iran claims it shot down three drones.

SANCHEZ: The satellite images obtained exclusively by CNN show no extensive damage at the site. A U.S. official says that Washington was given a heads up but did not participate in the attacks. The White House says the vote was not made. The focus is now on de-escalation to avoid a broader war in the region. CNN's Nic Robertson joins us now from Tel Aviv. So, Nick, where do things stand after this apparent retaliatory strike?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yeah, Boris, it really seems that we're in a situation of ambiguity, strategic ambiguity versus escalation. Why do I say that? I think partly the language that we've heard from Iranian officials, not escalatory language. In fact, the language they're using to tell their public about what's happened. That they saw objects that their air defense system shot at and that they would investigate it. In Iran, that's the language for nothing to see here.

There were protests on the street in Tehran, but that is the usual thing that the government can organize. Certainly, you don't get protests, anti-Israel protests like that spontaneously erupting in Tehran. So, that seems to be the strength of it. And as well, a couple of hours after the strikes were reported, I spoke to a regional intelligence source. And he's well placed. And he told me that he did not expect an Iranian retaliation. And I think we're also getting ambiguity here on the Israeli side.

The Israeli government has not come out and made a statement about this. All we've seen is something of a social media spat between the hard right, one of the hard right members of Prime Minister Netanyahu's cabinet, Itamar Ben-Gavir, saying lame. One of the opposition, senior opposition figures, Yair Lapid, said that that was actually damaging to Israel's security interests and that it would be heard all the way from Tehran to Washington. But neither of them actually said that Israel had perpetrated a strike on Iran.

Certainly, it shows that Israel can reach right to where Iran, Isfahan, in the city of Isfahan, has a strategic nuclear facility where it enriches uranium. And it enriches uranium way above previously agreed international thresholds, dangerously close some people say to making a weapon. So there is a message in the strike. But the fact that neither side is bigging this up, Israel's quiet, the Iranians are essentially saying, yeah, something happened, but let's move on.

It doesn't take away from the fact that the tensions exist between Israel and Iran. It does seem to say that direct state-to-state confrontation is not in play. But it is a dangerous moment because the red lines that the two countries understood between each other, those are now blurred. So if we're not closer to regional escalation, certainly the cost of it became a lot clearer over the past week.

DEAN: Absolutely. Nick Robertson, for us in Jerusalem. Thanks so much for that reporting. And I want to bring in Beth Sanner. A senior national security analyst, former deputy director of national intelligence. Beth, we're glad you're here with us. Listening to Nic's reporting there, I think so many people around the world are wondering, what does this mean now.

BETH SANNER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Yeah.

DEAN: Where are, what are the two, how high are the tensions and what is the risk of escalation? What's your assessment?

SANNER: I think if we pull back a little bit and say, like, where are we right now in terms of this 30,000 foot level? In the past few weeks, we've seen this context change completely. All these red lines that Nick just brought up, they've been broken. The norms of behavior between Israel and Iran have now changed. And it means that Iran is willing to strike directly and massively at Israel. And yeah, Israel's response was measured, but they made a point. And that means that we're at a new level, kind of at this new normal that we've seen in Taiwan and other places that we're going to have to deal with. And the problem is, is that the underlying context of this is, all those things we were worried about before, a war in the north with Hezbollah, this shadow war that started all this off on April 1st. All those things still exist and will continue. But now it's going to continue in this context of a heightened threat environment and risk environment. So it's not good.

[14:20:09]

SANCHEZ: U.S. officials have said a lot by not saying much, right? Like Secretary of State Antony Blinken kept his remarks on this short, essentially saying Israel told the U.S., but the U.S. wasn't involved. The U.S. didn't give the green light, so to speak. What is the U.S. position now?

SANNER: Complicated, right? I mean, you would not want to be a policymaker right now at the White House or the State Department because you're trying to juggle all these things. Like, here's more context. The hostage negotiations. Hamas has rejected them. They are going nowhere. There is no peace agreement deal going on with Hezbollah. On Wednesday, 14 Israeli soldiers, six seriously injured by drone and missile strikes from Hezbollah into Iran. I mean, like all of this, and then they're trying to thread the needle to a two-state solution by all this step-by-step stuff, and none of the things at the beginning of that process are going well. So crisis averted, but all the problems, underlying problems, are still here.

DEAN: They're still there. And Israel has been facing mounting criticism from the world, from one of their most important allies, the United States, over their prosecution of the war in Gaza. And yet, over the last week, Beth, we saw its allies come to its defense. We saw the Western world and even Arab nations come to its defense and also rally around it, more sanctions on Iran. If you're Israel and you're the Israeli government, where do you go from here now that you've gotten to that point? And what does it mean maybe for Gaza--

SANNER: Yeah

DEAN: -- for a possible invasion in Rafah?

SANNER: Yeah. Well, Secretary Blinken also, as you mentioned earlier, his statement today included, we still do not support this invasion. But in Israel, two brigades of reservists have been called up and will start showing up in the next few weeks. So they are going to do the Rafah operation. I do think that this sets up Israel. And the reason that they were so restrained is that they realize that they're actually in a public relations winning position right now. But I believe it's temporary because all of the things that need to be dealt with, getting rid of Hamas, what's on their plan, is still on the table.

SANCHEZ: You mentioned the inception of a plan to move toward a two- state solution not going great. There's speculation out there that the White House is going to try to tie something that you noted, the assistance from some of the regional players that Israel got over the weekend, specifically recognition by Saudi Arabia.

SANNER: Correct.

SANCHEZ: And a closer relationship with Riyadh, between Riyadh and Israel, that they would dangle that in front of Netanyahu in exchange for some kind of movement toward a two-state solution. Right. Is that a big enough carrot, a big enough incentive for him to shift his position?

SANNER: I don't think so yet. I think that, you know, the number one objective still has to be accomplished for them, which is making sure that Hamas's military organization in Gaza is wiped out. So that means a lot of carnage to come. So we're still a ways off, and we don't have a ceasefire in order to get the aid in, in order to kind of get to a place where we can have everybody talking. So while it's not closed off, it's not right now. And I think we can kind of overdo the idea that Saudi Arabia and UAE provided some radar information as being like, oh, they're all in for Israel.

SANCHEZ: Yeah

SANNER: Still limitations.

DEAN: Well, because they have their own interests to look out for, right?

SANCHEZ: Yeah

SANNER: Exactly. And their own populations, and they're worried about those things. So with the Gaza carnage still to come, more still to come, we're not kind of over that hump yet where we can get to that place.

DEAN: Beth Sanber, thanks so much for stopping by. We appreciate it.

SANNER: Thank you.

DEAN: Up next, we're going to take you back to New York City, where a full jury has been seated in the Trump trial. We'll be right back.

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[14:25:09]

SANCHEZ: All 12 jurors and six alternates have now been seated in the first criminal trial of a former American president. That means that opening statements could happen as soon as Monday in Donald Trump's hush money trial. But first, there's going to be a critical proceeding known as a Sandoval hearing that is set to take place.

DEAN: That's right. If nothing else, this is educating us about the legal process. That's for sure. It's expected the judge will be asked if prior bad acts can be brought up in this case in reference to President Trump and his criminal history. And what if he takes the stand, he could be asked about. CNN's Laura Coates is outside the New York courthouse. Okay, Laura, we now look ahead to this afternoon and for Monday when we are expecting opening arguments.

COATES: I mean, history is being made. As you know, this is a former president United States on trial criminally. About 15 floors above us right here outside of the Manhattan courtroom. And there are 18 jurors who will be in have been in panel that includes six alternates. And of course, the 12 jurors who were already selected to actually be the ones to deliberate.