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Full Jury Panel Selected for Trump's Criminal Trial; NYPD Gives Update After Man Set Self on Fire Outside Courthouse Where Trump's Trial is Underway; Soon: NY Appeals Court Holds Hearing on Trump's Change of Venue Motion in the Hush Money Trial. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired April 19, 2024 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[15:02:02]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN Breaking News.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Breaking news, any moment, former President Donald Trump's Manhattan hush money case is set to resume. It comes after an emotional, dramatic and productive day four of jury selection. History was made after the court impaneled a full 12-member jury along with six alternates.

CNN Chief Legal Analyst and Anchor, Laura Coates is outside court for us.

Laura, we have a jury, right? So what happens when court returns from break, because they're not expected back in the room until Monday.

LAURA COATES, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: That's right. And, of course, remember, Monday is also Passover to begin and - I believe, at sundown - and there are even questions when the jurors were initially questioned about scheduling, whether they would be able to not appear or they wanted to have some time off.

And keep in mind that Wednesday is the scheduled days off as well. So it could be the case that if opening statements began on Monday, there's a probability that they would not return in front of a jury until at the earliest, perhaps even Thursday.

Now, remember, in between, there is a gag order motion that includes the - ask for and request for sanctions or some sort of a punishment for Donald Trump based by the prosecution's accusation that he had violated the gag order that had been in place.

I would wonder now that the jury would have been impaneled, what sort of conditions will also be placed on this jury in terms of what they can consume from media and otherwise.

I want to bring in Evan Perez here, though, as well to this conversation, because he has been following this so closely along. And, Evan, you know that this is going to be a very big moment here to have a jury impaneled in a historic trial. And just moments ago, on the 15th floor of this building, you had the president of the United States have a full jury in front of him.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Right. I mean, for someone who has been attacking the entire process, to sit there very closely paying attention, it appears, especially today, he was paying attention, especially when there were people who had opinions about him, positive or negative.

Look, and I think this is a pretty impressive process that we've just witnessed, right? We had some doubts during the week, Laura, whether we were going to be able to get this jury done, this jury selection process done this week. And this judge has, we have to say that has taken full control and has moved things along very well. And his intent is for the opening arguments to begin on Monday.

But you saw today, though, he gave the - both sides the chance to strike jurors, to get people off the panel that they didn't want. But it was a pretty impressive process to - that we saw unfold there with jurors who basically - some of them who had views about the former president, but also said that they could put those things aside to judge this - the evidence impartially.

COATES: And that's the goal of any jury pool, right?

PEREZ: Right.

COATES: The idea of just finding a jury based on what the ultimate outcome is, acquittal or conviction is not really the process for the American justice system.

[15:05:05]

It's the jury of your peers, impartiality as the goal.

And unlike the way in which the former president has approached this case initially, he has been very clear, he thought that you could not get an impartial jury in Manhattan ...

PEREZ: Right.

COATES: ... that the political leanings that are assumed in Manhattan being an overwhelmingly blue in their votes, that that would be the jury pool as well. And they'd base their decisions off of their politics. But we saw, at least, in today's proceedings, a number of jurors, not only who are from out of state ...

PEREZ: Right.

COATES: ... but also who were leaning in favor of him politically.

PEREZ: Yes. That was actually, again, a reminder that New York is not what you think it is based on what you see on television, right? That New York is a more complicated place. There's a lot of people here who are Republican that are conservative, who support some of his policies. You heard that from some of the people on this panel today.

And so he has to, at least know, even if he's not saying it to the public, he has to at least know that he has a shot, he's going to get some fairness from the - from these people today.

COATES: There are also lawyers on this panel ...

PEREZ: Yes.

COATES: ... and many people were surprised to find that. I think there is this general assumption that if you're a lawyer you're immediately taken out of jury selection. Tell that to lawyers who are being put in there.

PEREZ: In some jurisdictions they tend to do, right?

COATES: They do. But - and the reason for it, of course, is if you're the prosecution and the defense, you want your own words to be what's relied on.

PEREZ: Right.

COATES: And, of course, the evidence. And there's a fear sometimes that a juror would look to a lawyer and give undue deference to what they think about a case. Also missing here in New York the alternates are likely aware they're alternates.

PEREZ: Yes.

COATES: Will that change you think their ability to focus?

PEREZ: Well, that's the thing. I mean, one reason why you don't tell the alternates that they are the alternates is that this way everyone pays attention equally and they don't know until the end, right? And then so in this case these people already, going in, know this.

And so that's the big danger in something like this. Obviously, this is a case of historic importance so I think everybody's aware of what's riding on this. And - but it's going to be a challenge. You're going to be - they're going to be in there for five, six perhaps seven weeks and living this case every single day.

And, of course, as you pointed out, I wonder as a lawyer, Laura, do you think that having that break after the initial opening argument, what additional challenges that pose ...

COATES: Yes.

PEREZ: ... because you have that break till Thursday for a couple of days that they're not going to be here.

COATES: Yes. As a prosecutor I would hate to have my momentum broken up in any way.

PEREZ: Right.

COATES: I want to have people continuously go through it, have their feelings, have their emotions about it, visceral or otherwise, and be able to stack the case in certain ways that you can do this. We have a press conference happening right now. There's an unbelievably shocking event and disturbing event, there's a press conference right now.

TARIK SHEPPARD, DEPUTY COMMISSIONER PUBLIC INFORMATION, NYPD: ... that took place right across the street from the courthouse today. We just spoke to the mayor, Eric Adams, and we spoke to Police Commissioner, they both updated. And today you're going to hear from our Chief of Department, Jeffrey Maddrey, who will update you on the incident that took place. You're going to didn't hear from the fire Commissioner, Kavanagh, on the condition of all the people that were involved, their medical conditions and then we'll have our Chief of Detectives, Joe Kenny and he'll talk to you about the investigation of the incident today.

So with that, I'll bring out the Chief of Department, Jeffrey Maddrey.

CHIEF JEFFREY MADDREY, NYPD: Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Commissioner Sheppard. Good afternoon, everyone.

I'm going to try and talk loud so you can all hear me. But at 1:30 this afternoon, right here in Collect Pond Park, which is directly opposite of a New York County criminal court at 100 Center Street, where the trial of former President Trump is currently taking place.

We observe a male walk into the park. He walks to the center of the park. When he's in the park, he starts shuffling around his clothes. He opens up a book bag. From the book bag, he takes numerous pieces of papers, pamphlets out. He throws the pamphlets throughout the park. And then he pulls out a canister and pours some kind of liquid on himself, a liquid we believe is an accelerant, and he lights himself on fire.

The male - he takes a couple of steps while he's on fire. Then eventually he falls onto a police barrier and falls down to the ground. He's on fire. Another area in the park where some of the accelerant spilt is also on fire. Civilians, court officers, members of the police department, they run into the park. They make efforts to put him out. They use their coats. They use fire extinguishers.

Eventually, FDNY responds. We're able to put the male extinguished to that fire. And from that point, we moved him to a Cornell burn unit where right now he's there in a critical condition.

[15:10:00]

At this moment, I'll let our fire commissioner talk about the condition of the male and the condition of people who also helped and who are witnesses over there. Commissioner?

LAURA KAVANAGH: Thank you.

As the chief mentioned, the victim is in critical condition but is alive and intubated at Cornell burn center. At this time, there were four - three NYPD officers and one four court officers, so four officers who had minor injuries from their exposure to the fire. They are all fine. They are stable and they are green tags, which is minor at this time. We were on scene, as the chief mentioned, EMS did treat and transport the patient, and we do have our fire marshals here helping with the investigation at this time.

JOSEPH KENNY, NYPD CHIEF OF DETECTIVES: Good afternoon, everyone. So the male that's involved in this incident, his name is going to be Maxwell Azzarello. Right, he's a male, he's born in 1987. His driver's license indicates that he's from St. Augustine, Florida. What we know from speaking to other witnesses and family members is that he arrived in New York sometime - earlier in the week. We have his car being in St. Augustine, Florida on the 13th, so anywhere between the 13th and today, he arrived.

We spoke to family members today. They were unaware that he was even in New York. As the Fire Commissioner stated, he's at Cornell burn center right now in likely condition. So the accelerant that was used, it appears to be some kind of alcohol-based substance that's used for cleaning and that's what we have right now.

SHEPPARD: (INAUDIBLE) we go - right down the line, left to right and just - we'll decide who's going to take what.

MARK ROSE: Mark Rose, I wanted to ask you about security. Obviously, there's about 20 officers. Are you going to be putting more officers? What's - is there any change in the strategy with the protocol you're working (INAUDIBLE) ...

SHEPPARD: Listen, Mark, after every incident, we have an after action and we'll talk about if we're going to add officers or not. But just so you know, we had a lot of officers in the area. The - it is open to the public to still walk through the park and so there was no security breach here at all.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Eric Tresner (ph).

ERIC TRESNER: Thank you. Any evidence of (INAUDIBLE) as to why this occurred?

KENNY: The pamphlets seemed to be propaganda based. Almost like a conspiracy theory type of pamphlet. Some information in regards to Ponzi schemes and the fact that some of our local educational institutes are fronts for the mob, so a little bit of a conspiracy theory going on here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rocco (ph).

ROCCO: Chief, any indication that he was (INAUDIBLE) ...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, we're going to go through all those video but what we've seen so far today, it appears that he walked from Leonard Street. He entered the park, walked into the middle of the park and committed the act.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dola Miles (ph).

DOLA MILES: Do you (INAUDIBLE) ... UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very preliminary in dealing with the family so far. We just made notification to them that the incident had taken place.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right back there?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How concerned are you that somebody (INAUDIBLE) this far end lights himself on fire? Obviously, you said (INAUDIBLE) in critical conditions right now, how concerned are you (INAUDIBLE) ...

MADDREY: Yes. Thank you. We're very concerned. Of course, we're going to review our security protocols. This gentleman did not breach security protocols. The park was open to the public. But, of course, we're going to look at everything, and with the magnitude of what's going on around right here, we'll reassess our security with our federal partners.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How does that change things (INAUDIBLE) ...

MADDREY: Like I said, we're going to go back to the command. We'll talk to our federal partners and we'll make decisions. If we need to tighten up security, maybe we'll shut down the park. This is something that we'll determine once we talk with all our partners.

With the court officers to make sure that with everything going on, the gravity of the event going on right now, we make sure we'll have ample security.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) ...

ANTHONY: So from the video and from eyewitnesses, it took a few minutes for the police officers to get there, to get their hands on the fire extinguisher. Was there no FDNY presence already here because of the obvious person inside the courtroom and is that something that maybe FDNY wants to revisit in case there is some sort of another emergency like this where EMS or fire would have to respond immediately, because it took police officers (INAUDIBLE) fire extinguisher (INAUDIBLE) ...

SHEPPARD: So, Anthony, I'll give that - I'll give a piece of that a piece of that to the Fire Commissioner, but obviously we're working in partnership with courts, FDNY, all of the city agencies that need to be over here are here. But you've got to also remember the park's open to the public. So there was no reason for anybody to already have a fire extinguisher on standby. Nobody knew that this guy was about to light himself on fire.

So two minutes is a pretty quick response time to be able to get to a vehicle, get a fire extinguisher, run around, get into the park and start trying to extinguish this fire, all right? But as far as FDNY resources, I'll let Commissioner Kavanagh just talk about what she may want to do.

KAVANAGH: Yes, as they mentioned, obviously, we'll work with NYPD to review what happened. And if an additional resources are necessary, we will place them here. [15:15:03]

But typically for any kind of major security event, which this is, we have additional EMS resources on scene. Fire only sometimes are usually is not a reason for that, as you typically would not have next to a public park, but we will work with NYPD to review that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) were they the ones who responded?

KAVANAGH: I would have to confirm what time they responded. We'll get back to you. But we do typically in any kind of high security event have more EMS resources on scene because there could be patients for any reason.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. We're going to do two or three more, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) do you think that this is something that have been (INAUDIBLE) ...

SHEPPARD: Not everything that you see right here is part of the plan. There's a large security plan for this. And trust me, when we had our meetings before this took place, we met with FDNY, EMS, we met with our court partners, we met with Secret Service, so I'm not quite sure what else you're looking for.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, an ambulance like on standby (INAUDIBLE) ...

SHEPPARD: Yes, EMS and FDNY are in the area during this trial as well. And they're totally aware of what's going on and our response time today was pretty quick.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Max, (INAUDIBLE) ...

MAX: The man - do we know if the man says anything during, before or during the incident?

SHEPPARD: (INAUDIBLE) you want to talk about it.

KENNY: As of right now, what we're showing is that he just walked directly into the park and began to throw the pamphlets in the air and then lit himself on fire. We're still - that could be - come out during our investigation. We have a lot of witnesses here. A lot of people are coming forward. We hope if more people come forward, we can put a little more information together. But as of right now, we don't have that he was making any statements.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tim (INAUDIBLE) CBS.

TIM: (INAUDIBLE) ...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, we're looking through his social media and what he did online prior. And it appears that he did post something in regards to this event prior to the incident.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dan Rivoli (ph).

DAN RIVOLI: That's going to be my question (INAUDIBLE) posting for something like this trial when you're gathering intelligence (INAUDIBLE) saying I'm the man, I'm paraphrasing, but I'm the man who set himself on fire (INAUDIBLE) ...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah, all of his social media is going to be scrubbed. Obviously, we didn't know him prior to this incident. I - from - I could talk about the detective bureau, we didn't know him prior to this incident. But going back now, part of the investigation, all his social media, any associates, we'll be looking at all of that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) ...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is there any connection to this guy lighting himself on fire to stop the trial?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At this point, like I said, very preliminary, we don't have that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Emily (ph).

EMILY: (INAUDIBLE) ...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As of right now, he's considered likely, which means he's very critical. His condition is not good. But as of right now, he's still alive.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dana (ph).

DANA: Are you aware that (INAUDIBLE) ...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're looking through that right now. As - five minutes ago, before we started this press conference, I didn't see any criminal history in New York.

SHEPPARD: I know it has been asked yet, but I just want Commissioner Daughtry to step in for a second and just talk about what he did immediately after to make sure that the area is safe.

KAZ DAUGHTRY, NYPD DEPUTY COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Thank you, Commissioner Sheppard.

Immediately following this incident, I requested the bomb squad to come. I wanted the bomb squad to search this area for any type of - any possible secondary devices. They're actually doing this right now behind me with K-9 checking all the vehicles.

As of right now, there has been no additional devices found. There hasn't been any devices found, I'm sorry, in regards to this incident. So we'll be continuing to search this area. And as far as your question about enhanced security procedures, we're going to take look into this. Maybe we may have to shut this area down, but that's something that we're going to do. We're going to have a conversation when we get back to 1 Police Plaza, thank you.

SHEPPARD: All right, last couple.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you talk about just (INAUDIBLE) personality do you have onsite right now?

SHEPPARD: Yes, we're not going to talk about specific numbers, but obviously we're working with numerous city agencies and our federal partners over in this area. Obviously, we're working with courts. We're working with the Secret Service. We're working with sanitation whose building is right here. We're working with FDNY, so there's a lot of city agencies that are part of this, but we won't discuss what number of personnel we have out here.

All right, last two.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) right here in front.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you just share what you told Donald Trump's service details, his team (INAUDIBLE) ...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely not.

[15:20:02]

SHEPPARD: We're not going to share a conversation that we had with Secret Service, but everyone involved in the trial inside is aware of the incident that took place outside today.

Last one.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And do you know how he got here?

SHEPPARD: Oh, so what do you want?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you know how (INAUDIBLE) ...

SHEPPARD: That's on the investigation. I'll let Chief Kenny talk about that.

KENNY: Yes, as of right now on all these camera, we have him walking to the park. That doesn't mean that he didn't need to take the train here or come here via car. We do have a vehicle identified that's connected with him. We're currently searching for that car.

SHEPPARD: All right, last one.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, last question.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, so the man was seen by multiple people carrying a sign that appeared to be someone anti-Trump and earlier this week you guys blocked off, barricaded for Trump supporters protesting and leftists, and I noticed that he lit himself on fire on the Trump supporter side. Do you have any reasons to believe that he was targeting some supporters?

SHEPPARD: As, I think, everybody who stepped up here said earlier, we do not believe he is - this was targeting any particular person or any particular group. We're just right now labeling it as a sort of a conspiracy theorist and we're going from there, but the investigation will continue.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks, everyone.

SHEPPARD: All right. Thank you, everybody.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you for your time and attention. Thank you.

SANCHEZ: We have been listening to officials in New York City to give us an update on a dramatic and disturbing incident outside of the courthouse, where former President Donald Trump is being tried in his hush money case.

Officials there confirming that as Maxwell Azzarello, born in 1987 from St. Augustine, Florida, who had arrived in New York in just the last few days, apparently walked up to an area not far from where the press is stationed outside of the courthouse. Opened up a bag that he was carrying, started tossing pamphlets into the air. Those pamphlets apparently containing what officials described as conspiracy theories related to Ponzi schemes and mentioning specifically an institute of higher education.

Azzarello at one point then removed a canister containing a type of accelerant believed to be alcohol based and then lit himself on fire. Officials then say that a group of civilians and nearby officers rushed to try to help him, putting clothes on him using a fire extinguisher at one point to put the flames out. It wasn't until the FDNY arrived on the scene and were able to successfully get the fire out and then help him get on a stretcher and get to Cornell Medical Center where he's currently in the burn unit.

Officials revealing that despite this ugly incident that man is alive and currently intubated. They relayed that he is in critical condition, though as one officer put it, the situation does not look good for him. Officials were asked repeatedly if this would change the makeup of the scene outside the courthouse, officials made clear that this man did not actually breach the security barrier outside of the courthouse but they say they are going to reassess security and potentially could shut down that area to public access. Again, an update from NYPD on that disturbing incident in New York.

They also relayed, Jessica, that they are scanning the area for any possible devices but so far they see no threat to the public. Jessica?

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: Okay we have some more breaking news to share with you, sources telling CNN the New York appeals court is now set to hear arguments in just a few minutes over Donald Trump's motion to change the venue in this hush money trial. That hearing is scheduled for 3 30 PM. Last week Trump asked the appeals court to stop the trial so they could argue over a change of venue saying he couldn't get a fair trial in Manhattan. An appellate judge denied that motion.

Now the full panel is hearing Trump's challenge and all of it, of course, happening as the trial goes on and a full jury has been impaneled in that New York City courtroom. I want to talk more about the Trump trial with former U.S. attorney Michael Moore and jury consultant and president of Decision Analysis, Richard Gabriel.

Great to see both of you here.

Former president Trump just posted on social media saying Judge Merchan is "railroading" him and taking away his constitutional right to free speech because of the gag order. Michael, this doesn't violate the gag order but could it have any repercussions in court.

MICHAEL MOORE, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I'm glad to be with all of you. It can have some repercussions and that is basically because you're accusing the judge that you're in front of doing something, which clearly is not the case. And so I think probably this judge is smart enough to have now caught on to the fact that there's a lot of bluster coming from that side of the courtroom and this kind of nonsense is just going to be the norm for the next eight weeks or so. But I don't think it's going to do anything as it relates to increasing the gag order. I mean, certainly as the judge hold - is going to hold a hearing next week, we understand, to dig into the allegations that Trump has been violating that order.

[15:25:05]

He could make reference to this, but I don't think it's the kind of thing that necessarily increases or enhances the likelihood of any real significant punishment to him.

DEAN: And Richard they finished selecting those alternate jurors today. I'm curious if you think that there is a higher chance that in this particular case that those alternates will be used. We saw multiple people going through jury selection today get emotional about the potential of sitting on this jury.

It is a very specific case. There's a lot of pressure around it. Do you think that that will impact these alternate jurors and how we see them used?

RICHARD GABRIEL, PRESIDENT, DECISION ANALYSIS: I do. I mean, it's a long trial. I think there's the likelihood that one juror could get sick or have a family member that gets sick. And so a lot of times in a longer trial, you do use one or two alternates.

What compounds that, of course, is the pressure in this trial. We just had an incident with a guy setting himself on fire. We have a lot of political pressures. Some of these people may get into this trial and they realize they may be identified somehow and then get pressures. There's going to be social media searches.

So there's a tremendous amount of pressure. All of this obviously creates the opportunity for some of the jurors to be dismissed and also makes it so that the rest of the jurors really have to concentrate to just focus on the evidence and the law.

DEAN: Yes. And Michael, I want to go back to that news we were just talking about, about this appeals court and Trump trying to get a change of venue. And he's argued he can't get a fair trial. Interestingly, we've been hearing this reporting from Kara Scannell and Laura Coates and others that some of these jurors support Trump. They've read his book. They like his tax policy.

And Evan Perez making the point that New York City is more diverse than perhaps people like to think that it is. What do you think the odds of the court granting that change of venue request are?

MOORE: I think it's slim to none that they grant the change. And remember that one judge has already decided that the trial would go forward. And so the trial judge then continued on, selected this jury with the lawyers. And as you say, there was a great deal of back and forth during the jury selection process about social media posts, feelings about the defendant, feelings about the government, so some of those things cut in Trump's favor.

So now this panel of appeals court judges will be essentially saying, well, look, lawyers, didn't you have a chance to find out? Hadn't you - didn't you have a chance to use your strikes, didn't you have a chance to talk to these prospective jurors, so tell me why you think this is going to impact his right to a fair trial. Look at the jury you make up here.

So I just have a hard time believing that there's going to be any change at all. This hearing was scheduled before the jury selection took place. And obviously this has gone at a quicker pace than we thought to get a fully impaneled jury. So it may have had more of a bite had the jury selection process been mired up in conflict and controversy, but it hasn't.

And so they've got a full jury in the box ready to go and I just don't think he's going to have a very welcoming audience on this type of argument at this stage, at least, in front of the appellate court.

DEAN: And Richard, the former president hasn't posted directly about jurors himself, but he has reposted people like Jesse Waters who do comment on the jury. How concerned are you or do you think that concerns are warranted about jury tampering or intimidation, that sort of thing?

GABRIEL: Well, I think it's a big concern. I mean, these jurors have a tremendous amount of pressure. They're just trying to do their job. We already had a juror yesterday who said that she's been - she'd been identified and all of a sudden said, I really can't do this. So the judge has done a good job of trying to make these jurors anonymous. He's actually admonished the press to be careful not to give physical descriptions of the jurors.

So this puts that at risk and it puts the whole process at risk, so it does endanger the jurors, it does endanger, I think, the process and I think there's a lot of concern that this could put the trial at risk.

DEAN: All right. Michael Moore and Richard Gabriel, we're going to leave it there. But thanks so much for giving us context and analysis there. Good to see you both.

MOORE: Good to see you.

GABRIEL: Thank you. DEAN: Israel retaliates against Iran as U.S. officials say they did not endorse that attack and did not take part in it. Everything we're learning about the counterstrike.

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