Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

UnitedHealth Paid Ransom To Hackers, Says Patient Data Compromised; Gaza Civil Defense: 300 Bodies Found In Mass Grave At Hospital; Biden To Highlight Abortion Rights To Win Over Florida. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired April 23, 2024 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00]

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Now the company has this statement out there saying that the initial findings have said that they've found "files containing protected health information or personally identifiable information, which could cover a substantial portion of people in America."

Now, no precise estimate has been provided yet. The company says that a full analysis and actually notifying people -- that is something that could take months.

Now, just to remind people what happened here, we're talking about an attack on Change Healthcare. This is UnitedHealth's insurance billing firm and it is massive. Look at this -- processing 15 billion transactions a year. One in three U.S. patient records touch this company.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Wow.

EGAN: So, clearly, this is a company that is sitting on a treasure trove of data about all of us. And the company was so concerned here that they went out and actually paid hackers. We don't know how much they paid them but the hacking group that has been blamed for this -- they say that it was $22 million in ransom.

SIDNER: My God. What can people do and what is the company doing to try to help patients deal with what could be information out there that gets their identity stolen?

EGAN: Right, right. So the company is so concerned that they're not waiting for this full investigation. They are already taking some steps here.

They launched a customer website that provides resources, launching a dedicated call center, and they say they're going to provide free credit monitoring and identity theft protection for people who have been impacted for two years. The company says they're going to continue to monitor the internet and the dark webs. They say that, so far, they've only seen limited evidence that information has actually been published to the internet. But still, Sara, this attack really set off alarm bells and shows just

how exposed the whole health care system is to cyber. And really, ultimately, because it's our information, at the end of the day, all of us are exposed.

SIDNER: Yeah, and all of us may end up paying heavily for it.

Thank you so much, Matt Egan.

EGAN: Thanks, Sara.

SIDNER: Appreciate that -- Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: In a matter of hours, Manhattan prosecutors are expected to continue the questioning of David Pecker. Pecker is the longtime friend of Donald Trump who was the publisher of the National Enquirer for years. And during that time, he was a central player in the alleged hush money scheme to suppress negative information from getting out about Trump when he was running in 2016.

The prosecution argues that Pecker was the eyes and ears of Trump's catch and kill scheme to influence the election. Yesterday, he said this from the stand. "For the tabloids, we used checkbook journalism and we paid for stories."

CNN's Hadas Gold has much more on this. Hadas, catch and kill is going to be front and center once again for folks. Remind people what this means, why it was happening, and what it really is.

HADAS GOLD, CNN MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. So it's not unusual for tabloids to pay sources for stories. That's usually to have it as an exclusive.

BOLDUAN: Right.

GOLD: They could splash it on their front pages.

In this situation, the tabloid editors coined it catch and kill. This is where they would pay a source for a story, catch the story, but then not publish it. Kill the story. And often, these would be contracts that would say that if a source spoke elsewhere -- if it got onto other tabloids and other news outlets, they would have to pay the money back.

Now, we know this was used not just in situations with Donald Trump. There's actually also been reporting this was used with Harvey Weinstein as well.

Now, why would a tabloid do this sort of thing? Now, in some situations, it might be a sort of you scratch my back, I scratch yours. Maybe they'd get a better exclusive later on. Maybe there'd be a business deal later on for the magazine -- for the tabloid.

But in David Pecker's situation, prosecutors are alleging this was political. Now, they say that as part of this scheme, it was not just catch and kill. It was to publish flattering stories about Trump. Attack his political opponents. You remember all of those covers about Hillary Clinton's health.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

GOLD: How she was three months away from dying. And to silence these harmful stories on Trump.

Now, there are these three sort of catch and kill situation payments. We know one of them is $30,000 that would pay -- that was paid to a doorman at a Trump building.

And actually, a former editor at National Enquirer, Lachlan Cartwright, who has now come out publicly. He said that they were trying to prove those allegations at the National Enquirer when they were suddenly told by the people on the high top, pay the guy, and just don't publish the story at all.

We also know there was some $150,000 to McDougal. That was in exchange for fitness columns, which prosecutors are saying was really just to keep her quiet. And, of course, the $130,000 to Stormy Daniels.

Now, I have to note here this is not journalistically OK. Most reputable outlets will never pay a source for a story, whether they publish it or not.

BOLDUAN: Right.

GOLD: But clearly, with the tabloids -- the National Enquirer -- these are not reputable outlets.

BOLDUAN: Yeah. A very different standard, if you will --

GOLD: Yes.

BOLDUAN: -- that we are seeing exposed once again. And what role it will play in this criminal trial of Donald Trump we are about to see as it picks up today.

GOLD: Yeah.

BOLDUAN: It's great to see you, Hadas. Thank you so much.

Let's talk much more about this. Joining us right now is criminal defense attorney William Brennan. He represented Donald Trump's Payroll Corporation in a 2022 case. William, thank you so much for jumping on.

Let's talk about David Pecker's testimony continuing today. What kind of work do you think the D.A. has -- prosecutors have ahead of them with their questioning today?

WILLIAM J. BRENNAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY, FORMER TRUMP PAYROLL CORP. ATTORNEY: Well, good morning, Kate, and thanks for having me.

[07:35:00]

I think the prosecutors have to really walk a fine line because they're trying to use him as their witness. But, you know, when we examine witnesses we talk about sometimes polluted sources.

In this case, it seems that this individual who is running or had some managerial role in the National Enquirer -- the tabloid -- decided that he was going to, on his own, suppress stories with his own money. And it just -- it just smells bad. It doesn't pass the smell test.

And you have to look at the publication, too. We're not talking about the National Review here. I mean, this is a tabloid whose typical headline is Elvis raising alien twins on Mars. I mean, this is -- this is an area that will give great fodder I think for cross-examination with the defense team.

BOLDUAN: And we can see that they're already lining up to try to diminish or counter all of this. We heard in opening statements what they're going to do to prosecution witnesses.

One thing we also learned from the prosecution's opening statement, William, is that they want to portray this case as an election interference case rather than a hush money case.

What do you think of that choice?

BRENNAN: Well, they have to portray it that way Kate because they painted themselves into a corner when they built this case, and a lot of it really is built with duct tape and zip ties. They have to run it through the filter of the election interference crime because to get it to a felony it has to be shown that a) money was paid, which they have the burden of proving that; b) what it was paid for, and then c) that it was paid in relation to another crime -- and their allegation is election interference.

I believe the defense will argue that if money was paid, it was paid as legal fees. And if it was paid for even remotely close purposes to what the prosecution is arguing, it was paid because the defendant didn't want a personally embarrassing situation to come out that would bring shame to him and to his family.

So this is going to be a bitterly-fought battle.

BOLDUAN: And one more thing on David Pecker as he continues to testify. We do know that -- we heard from the defense's opening statement this, in part. "There is nothing illegal about what you will hear happened among the National Enquirer -- AMI David Pecker and Donald Trump. It's not a scheme unless a scheme means something that doesn't matter -- that's not illegal."

What kind of indication does that give you of the defense team's strategy here? I think you were getting at that.

BRENNAN: I was. I think the defense team will hold the prosecution to its burden of proving each and every element. And if the defense team admits that payments were made to the former attorney, I think there's going to be a great battle as to what those payments were made for. And a lot of it may come down to what the memo section says on the checks. If payments were made and they were made in the ordinary course of business, this case goes out the window.

BOLDUAN: William Brennan, let's see what happens. Very interested to see -- to hear from David Pecker back on the stand this morning. It's good to see you. Thank you -- John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, back-to-back thrillers overnight. A 20-point comeback for the Denver Nuggets in a buzzer-beater that shocked the Lakers. And something good actually happened to New York basketball for once.

CNN's Carolyn Manno has all the Playoff action this morning. So what happened?

CAROLYN MANNO, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Come on, the Knicks have had a pretty good season, John.

Listen, if you went to bed early you missed an absolute thriller. I woke up and I was like what happened? A couple of the Playoff games really delivered.

The Lakers were in control for most of game two against the Nuggets. They were up by 20 in the third quarter. But Denver just kept chipping away and chipping away, thanks in large part to the play of Jamal Murray. After missing 13 of his first 16, he had 14 of his 20 points in the fourth quarter -- and none of them bigger than that right there -- a step-back fadeaway jumper over Anthony Davis at the buzzer to give his team the 101-99 win and a 2-0 series lead.

So the Nuggets have now won 10 straight games against the Lakers as they head to L.A. for game three on Thursday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMAL MURRAY, GUARD, DENVER NUGGETS: I told my teammates when I was struggling -- I go, I'm going to look for you all. I'm going to look for you all. And every single one of them told me to keep shooting. I had the ball with two seconds left and I knew once I made a couple, the next one should go down as well. I'm thankful enough that it was one of the few that went down for me.

REPORTER: Can you take us through that last play and just what happened and what unfolded? What was -- I don't know if you were screened or what happened in that last play.

ANTHONY DAVIS, CENTER, LOS ANGELES LAKERS: Jamal Murray made a shot. (Mic drop).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MANNO: No shortage of drama in the Sixers-Knicks game at Madison Square Garden. New York was down by five in the final 30 seconds before one of the most incredible comebacks in Playoff history. Jalen Brunson's three-pointer from the corner bounces on the rim and falls in, cutting it to two. And then later, Josh Hart would steal the ball from Tyrese Maxey and get the ball back for the Knicks. Donte DiVincenzo misses a three-pointer for the lead. But the Knicks

somehow managed to grab the rebound and eventually get the ball back into his hands. And this time he connects to give New York the lead. They would hold on to win 104-101.

[07:40:10]

But the plot would thicken here. Philly coach Nick Nurse says he was actually trying to call a timeout before the Sixers inbounded the ball, but says that his request went unanswered by the officials.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NICK NURSE, HEAD COACH, PHILADELPHIA 76ERS: I called timeout. The referee looked right at me and ignored me. It went into Tyrese. I called timeout again, then the melee started. And yeah -- I mean, I'm not necessarily going to run out onto the floor or do something to make sure and get his attention.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MANNO: Three more games on the schedule tonight. Phoenix and Minnesota getting things started at 7:30 Eastern on our sister channel TNT. The Pacers are in Milwaukee, and the Mavericks and Clippers have the nightcap at 10:00. And you can catch that one on TNT as well.

And lastly for you, Yankees manager Aaron Boone finding himself ejected from yesterday's game against the A's for what turned out to be absolutely nothing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HUNTER WENDELSTEDT, UMPIRE: You're not yelling at me. I did what I was supposed to do and checked. I'm looking for him to get hit by the pitch. You got anything else to say, you're gone, OK?

FAN: (Sitting behind Boone yelling something at Wendelstedt).

WENDELSTEDT: Aaron, you're done!

AARON BOONE, MANAGER, NEW YORK YANKEES: I didn't say anything.

ANNOUNCER: You now hear him saying, "I didn't say anything."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MANNO: So check it out. You can see the ump yelling towards the dugout. It was actually a fan in the stands who first did that talking. Boone just standing there and took the warning. And then when the fan started to heckle again, the umpire thought it was Boone who piped up and tossed him out of the game.

I feel like, John, this is when you have an older brother or a sister and they say something, and then you end up getting caught for it. It goes like that sometimes. BERMAN: I hope I knew the person that was standing behind him yelling that and who got Aaron Boone thrown out. It gives me some ideas -- not that -- you know, look, no one can afford the seats if they're in Yankee Stadium, at least, behind the dugout there. But again, that is something to see.

Carolyn Manno, thank you --

MANNO: Yeah, it was fun.

BERMAN: -- very much for that.

SIDNER: John was the one causing the trouble; not the one that got into trouble, I suspect.

BERMAN: We'll see where my sympathies lie here, but not with Aaron Boone.

SIDNER: Fair enough.

This morning, what is the secret to living to 105 years old? A Wisconsin woman has cracked the code. Katherine Sibert, known at her senior living facility as Miss Katie, celebrated her 105th birthday on Sunday. Born in 1919 -- I looked this up because I was like what was going on in 1919. The popular car, the Ford Model T. The average wage, $1,200 a year. Bread, 12 cents a loaf. She has lived a long time.

The staff at the Autumn Lake Healthcare facility says she rarely misses an activity and she is always upbeat. Miss Katie loves her home so much that before moving in at age 100, she spent time volunteering there.

We are wishing Miss Katie a very happy 105th birthday.

All right. Still ahead, why "Star Wars" fans are flocking to the dairy aisle. Blue milk's arrival from a galaxy far, far away. Yeah, oof, as they say in the studio.

And, Joe Biden heading to the battleground state of Florida today. The message he plans to deliver and why they think Floridians will be listening real closely.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Hello, hello, hello.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL)

[07:47:45]

BERMAN: And these are live pictures outside Trump Tower in New York. Very shortly, Donald Trump will leave and head to the courthouse. First up, a hearing to determine if he violated a gag order in the falsified documents case against the former president. Also today, on the witness stand again, David Pecker, the man who used to run the National Enquirer.

The FTC is suing to block a merger between luxury fashion companies Tapestry and Capri. The more than $8 billion merger would bring brands like Coach, Kate Spade, and Michael Kors, Versace altogether in a bid to create a U.S. fashion behemoth that could compete with bigger European brands. The FTC says the merger would eliminate competition and drive up prices for U.S. consumers.

So, the blue milk that Luke Skywalker drank in "Star Wars" will soon be available in grocery stores just in time for May 4, which is also known as Star Wars Day because May the 4th be with you. It's also my father's birthday. Previously, the milk was only available in Disney parks. We are told the blue milk tastes like chicken -- no, vanilla, vanilla. It tastes like vanilla, not chicken.

The royal family released a new photo this morning of Prince Louis on his sixth birthday. He is the youngest child of the Prince and Princess of Wales. This is the first photo the family has released since the photo editing scandal last month. A royal source says this photo is not edited. Our photo desk is taking a close look at it.

So crews just broke ground on a high-speed rail line that will travel up to 200 miles per hour and shuttle at least 11 million people a year between Las Vegas and Southern California -- at least that's the projection. The Secretary of Transportation Pete Buttigieg joined the groundbreaking ceremony. The rail line is expected to cost about $12 billion. They want it to be open in time for the Los Angeles Summer Olympics in 2028 -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: So today marks 200 days since Hamas terrorists launched their attack on Israel, sparking the bloody war that is still playing out. The IDF reports conducting 25 airstrikes in Gaza over the past 24 hours. One airstrike hit a building near Gaza City, demolishing the top three floors. You're seeing some video there.

[07:50:00]

Now, last night, protesters marked the beginning of Passover outside Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's residence, urging him and his government to do more to bring home the remaining hostages who are still being held there in Gaza.

CNN's Matthew Chance has much more for us from Jerusalem. Matthew, what's the very latest?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, the latest is that, Kate, there has been more bodies exhumed from a mass grave that's been uncovered inside the Gaza Strip. Palestinian officials who are exhuming the bodies there saying they found another 35 Palestinian people that were buried there. It brings to 310, the number of bodies that have been taken out of it so far.

Now, to clarify what we've learned from our staff members on the ground in the Gaza Strip is that these individuals -- these bodies were buried by their families. They were -- they were killed as a result of Israeli military action, for the most part, inside the Gaza Strip over the course of the past several months. It's all happening around a hospital in Khan Yunis, which is a city in Gaza. It's at the south of the Gaza Strip.

The bodies were buried there temporarily. What happened is that the Israeli forces came in to search for hostages and to conduct their operations against Hamas militants following the October 7 attacks and they dug up these graves to test whether any of them were the Israeli hostages. And then they reburied them in a -- in a collective grave. And so that's the origin of this -- of this mass grave.

It is a pretty disturbing -- the sort of graphic details coming out of that region.

This, of course, as you mentioned, 200 days since the October 7 attacks and also the start of Passover. It's meant to be a time of celebration for Jewish people, of course, but this year it's tinged with grief and with sadness at the fact that there are still 70 people killed 200 days ago, of course, but still more than 130 people -- Israelis -- missing, believed to be held hostage inside the Gaza Strip.

And as you say, more pressure, more requests, more demands for the Israeli government to do more to get them free.

BOLDUAN: Yeah.

Matthew Chance, thank you, as always, for your reporting, Matthew -- Sara.

SIDNER: All right. In just a bit here as Donald Trump heads to a New York City courtroom, President Biden, in the next couple of hours, heading to Tampa, Florida with a focus on abortion rights. The Biden campaign believes Florida is up for grabs, especially over restrictive reproduction rights issues there.

Biden was in the battleground Pennsylvania while Trump was going through jury selection. Then Virginia on the first day of Trump's criminal hush money trial. And he'll be in Upstate New York as the first week of testimony concludes.

CNN White House correspondent Arlette Saenz is joining me now. What are we expecting from this particular trip?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Sara, President Biden is hoping to use this trip to Florida to once again tie former President Donald Trump to restrictive abortion laws across the country. It comes as the campaign has expressed some optimism about their chances in Florida, which has typically gone Republican in recent years. But specifically, over a law that is set to go into effect that would ban abortions at six weeks.

Governor Ron DeSantis signed that law back last year. It was upheld by the Supreme Court. And it adds to the restrictive abortion laws that have been passed across the South and in other parts of the country.

The campaign has long believed that the issue of reproductive rights could be a galvanizing issue for voters heading into November and they are hoping that will be the case in Florida as well.

The State Supreme Court there also is allowing for a vote in November on a ballot initiative, which would enshrine access to abortion in the state's constitution. There are similar measures being considered across the country and Democrats believe that could be a galvanizing force for moderate voters, including women voters, heading into November's election. That is one of the reasons that the Biden campaign is seeing some optimism -- projecting some optimism about the state of Florida.

But Florida really is difficult terrain for Democrats. If you take a look at the past few elections, former President Trump has really widened his margins over his Democratic opponents there, including Joe Biden.

It's also a state that can be quite expensive to operate in. So one big question going forward is how much the Biden campaign will be investing in a state like Florida where advertising dollars are -- don't go as far as some of the other traditional battleground states.

But it all does come at a time when Biden has found an advertising edge over Trump in recent weeks. If you take a look at the numbers of amounts that the Democrats and Republicans are spending, Democrats and Biden have spent about $27 million in advertising in seven weeks; Trump, about $9 million. So that is one area where the Biden campaign continues to hold an edge over Trump.

[07:55:00]

But in just a few hours, we will see the president depart for Tampa where he's expected to make his case when it comes to reproductive rights, warning of what Trump -- a second term could pose to the country, especially when it comes to access to reproductive rights.

SIDNER: All right, Arlette Saenz. Thank you so much. Live there for us from the White House.

John, over to you.

BERMAN: All right. With us now, CNN political commentators Bakari Sellers and David Urban. Bakari is also the author of the new book "The Moment," out -- available in bookstores as of this morning.

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, AUTHOR, "THE MOMENT", (D) FORMER SOUTH CAROLINA STATE REPRESENTATIVE, ATTORNEY: Yes.

BERMAN: So run --

SELLERS: Run and get one. Run and get one.

BERMAN: Run, don't walk. Endorsed by David Urban. You just saw it.

SELLERS: I don't know if that's going to sell books.

DAVID URBAN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST, FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN ADVISER: Slow down. I might -- I might have hurt Bakari.

BERMAN: Sell something.

All right, we're going to talk about the book in just a second.

SELLERS: Sure.

BERMAN: I do want to talk about what President Biden is doing, going to Florida. Maybe not a play for Florida but an effort to keep the spotlight on reproductive rights.

How much do you expect of this from Democrats?

SELLERS: David was giggling a little before we came on the air. Florida is a tough nut to crack for Democrats, but I do believe Miami- Dade, Broward -- those are areas that are ripe if the messaging is correct. I think he needs to go to Florida to see.

I mean, we always have -- Donald Trump does it every year where he postulates about -- or every election cycle -- what states he can win.

I think Florida is in play right now. We'll see what happens. But I think starting in Tampa today on this message of abortion. In light of what happened in Arizona and other places, I think it's a good strategy.

BERMAN: You gotta go.

URBAN: Listen, not surprisingly, I'll disagree with Bakari in saying that it's in play. I don't think Florida is in play. I do think it's smart for Democrats to go and show up. You've got to play in all 50 states. You kind of have to make your case.

It's, I think, a tactical move on the Biden administration's part to go to Florida while president -- former President Trump's on trial here to make the point that he can't be there to defend his home turf. And so it's a little bit of a messaging point I think as well.

BERMAN: I do want to ask about the trial since you brought it up here, David Urban.

SELLERS: What trial?

BERMAN: The New York Times -- well, The New York Times wrote this morning -- Maggie Haberman and others -- that apparently, Donald Trump's a little upset there aren't more Trump supporters outside the courthouse greeting him or protesting.

The Times wrote, "Mr. Trump had made no secret of the fact that he wanted a circus to accompany this trial. The demonstrations have so far been spotty at best."

What does that tell you?

URBAN: Well, I'd say this. The president should take solace that the circus is inside the courtroom, right? You know -- and so, look, it's cold. You see our colleagues outside freezing out there, right, with heaters. It's -- I've been watching. So I don't think that he should be -- he should be concerned -- particularly concerned.

When he did a rally most recently in Pennsylvania a few weeks ago, supporters lining the route to the -- from the -- from the airport to the event site two-three deep the whole way. I wouldn't be too concerned there are people not standing outside a courtroom waiting to see him come out. You don't even seen him come out because he goes outside of a -- in the car quickly.

BERMAN: Again, the conventional wisdom has always been --

SELLERS: Yeah.

BERMAN: -- this energizes his base. Energizes his base. Where's that --

URBAN: But it's New York City, too, John. It's not like, you know --

SELLERS: I mean, I think that the president is having a real-life kind of come-to-Jesus moment right now. He is struggling with the fact that he is being treated as a criminal defendant. I'm a criminal defense lawyer and my clients go through this all the time. And he's going through this now. And when he's found guilty, or if he's found guilty, it will be another slap in the face.

BERMAN: So, you're not just a criminal defense lawyer, you are also an author.

SELLERS: I am.

URBAN: Best-selling author.

BERMAN: Endorsed by David Urban.

Bakari, in this book there's a really interesting chapter -- every chapter is interesting -- but on Black men --

SELLERS: Yes.

BERMAN: -- and how the Democratic Party has an issue --

SELLERS: Yes.

BERMAN: -- right now that you see with Black men.

What is that issue, and what's the prescription to solve it?

SELLERS: So in the book, I talk about the untapped power of Black men for a very long period of time. I mean, we've given Black women their flowers and deservingly so. They are the largest demographic of people that vote for the Democratic Party. The second-largest demographic are Black men and we just have not paid attention to it, and there's been slippage.

And so, as a Black man in this country, it's very difficult to walk outside in a place where you're not loved and to deal with the struggles of trying to provide for your family and protect your family, and protect yourself.

And so, in this chapter, I try to give an ode to those who have given what Abraham Lincoln called the last -- given the highest angels of our nature and describe the pain that it -- that it feels sometimes to go outside and have to be yourself every single day.

And so, this book is a -- for me, it was -- it was a love to write the pages in that book. Hopefully, people will read it and that chapter, and hopefully, people will pay attention to it.

BERMAN: And David, raw politics in 30 seconds or less.

URBAN: Yeah.

BERMAN: Republicans have noticed that they can make some inroads with Black men.

URBAN: Listen, I think that to Bakari's point, right, that Republicans are trying for the first time. They're trying. They're trying to message to --

SELLERS: Yeah.

URBAN: -- working-class people of color, whether you're Black, brown, right? They're just saying look, we've got -- we've got some solutions. And also, on some social issues, I think that Republicans are kind of taking some votes away. So we'll see. We're making a bid for it. Hopefully, we get more and more people of color to come to our side and we eat away at the Democratic margin.