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Judge to Hold Hearing on Whether Donald Trump Violated Gag Order in Criminal Case Related to Hush Money Payments to Stormy Daniels; Former Publisher of "The National Enquirer" Testifies for Prosecution on Buying and Not Running Stories Damaging to Donald Trump before 2016 Election; Pro-Palestinian Protests Spread at Universities Nationwide; Royals Release New Photo of Prince Louis on His 6th Birthday. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired April 23, 2024 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

DAVID URBAN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: We're making a bid for it. Hopefully we get more and more people of color to come to our side. And we eat away at the Democratic margin.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: David Urban, great to see you this morning. Bakari Sellers, great to see you, and congratulations on the new book.

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I'm waiting on the autobiography of John Berman.

(LAUGHTER)

BERMAN: It's more of a pamphlet.

(LAUGHTER)

URBAN: Or the biography written by Kate Bolduan.

BERMAN: Illustrated guide, a cautionary tale. Bakari, David, thank you very much.

A new era of CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts now.

(LAUGHTER)

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Those guys are still on set cracking is up.

OK, the gag order, did Donald Trump already violate it? If so, how many times? The New York judge is taking this all on this morning as the former president heads back to court.

College campuses across the country grappling with growing pro- Palestinian protests, and the schools struggling to diffuse campus tension over Israel's war with Hamas. More arrests overnight.

I'm Kate Bolduan with John Berman and Sara Sidner. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL. SARA SIDNER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Happening now, a live look at Trump Tower, a scene you'll become very familiar with where were standing by to see, and potentially here from Donald Trump before he heads directly to that gag order hearing. This morning for the first time since his historic criminal trial began, trial proceedings will be delayed while the judge first decides if Trump violated the gag order in this case as many as 10 times. That is what prosecutors are alleging. If the judge finds he did, there are some options. He could warn Trump. He could fine Trump. Or he could jail Donald Trump. All three on the table before day two of testimony resume.

CNN's Brynn Gingras is live outside of court. Brynn, the contempt of court, a possibility for Donald Trump this morning. How will this hearing go down? And is there any sense of how long it might take before they get back to the crux of the case and the witness that had first taken the stand yesterday?

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Sara, so the judge already said they're going to start this hearing at 9:30 this morning. The jury is going to come back and they're going to resume with that same witness at 11:00 a.m. If they're not finished with the hearing by 11:00, then they're going to discuss a little bit later. So we know that it only be an hour-and-a-half long for this hearing.

And what we expect is what we've seen previously in court filings from the prosecution. They believe Donald Trump has violated this gag order 10 times, as you said. And like you said, there are a couple options that they're asking for. They want the judge to fine Trump $1,000 for each time the judge believes that he may have violated this order. But they also said that they want the judge to remind Trump that he is a criminal defendant in this case. And because of that, that means that he's subject to court supervision, meaning they can put them in jail if he continues to violate this gag order.

So we will see exactly how the judge rules on this, but it's certainly a hearing that we have been waiting for since we have seen many social media posts that have come into question. We have seen Donald Trump go to the cameras and talk about witnesses, which of course is part of this gag order. And just a reminder for the viewers as we get into this hearing, that gag order was put in place at the end of March and it forbids Trump from talking about or putting on social media anything disparagingly about the jurors in this case, the witnesses in this case also, also family members of the prosecution and the judge. So we'll see what the judge says when this hearing gets started at 9:30 this morning.

SIDNER: And then there's, obviously, the former publisher of "The Enquirer," David Pecker, started his testimony only in a very short time yesterday. Where do you think that's going to pick back up?

GINGRAS: Yes, so he was really just getting warmed up for the prosecution, right? He was only on the stand for about a half-an-hour or so. Remember, he is the former publisher, like you said, of "The National Enquirer." He's on the stand due to a subpoena. He had his own lawyers in the courtroom yesterday. And essentially what we've learned from the prosecution in opening

statements is they are going to lay out how they believe he was a coconspirator in the entire scheme that is sort of at the center of this entire case, the fact they believe that he helped Donald Trump and Michael Cohen find this story about Stormy Daniels, pay her off, and then keep it from the public eye.

And it's very likely we are going to hear how David Pecker would do that numerous times for Donald Trump in the 2016 campaign, different examples of stories that they would quote, "catch and kill" to keep the negative, any negative stories about Donald Trump out of the spotlight. So it's likely we will hear how all those plans allegedly took place, and he's a main witness for that. Sara?

SIDNER: And certainly, the defense will come after him. He has an agreement of immunity.

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Brynn Gingras, we will be watching. Thank you so much. Appreciate it. John?

BERMAN: All right, with us now, CNN legal analyst, former U.S. attorney Michael Moore. Counselor, great to see you this morning. First, this hearing over the gag order which kicks off fairly soon, what will you be watching for in this?

MICHAEL MOORE, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, well, I'm glad to be with you I think the judge is likely -- I just don't think he's going to take it quite as seriously, maybe as the prosecutors do. And I'm not saying that Trump didn't violate some things technically in the order. But when you look at the allegations of the order, it's things like, well, there were reposts. There were things that he said about Michael Cohen, despite the fact, of course, that Cohen has been all over the issue with Trump.

So I think the judge will probably look at some type of admonishment. I think he's going to say, look, are you trying to intimidate jurors? That doesn't seem to be the case, Mr. District Attorney, because we picked a jury fairly easily and without much consequence. We were able to get them in the box within a week. And then, whether or not they're spent some effort to intimidate witnesses. And I think that's an uphill battle, too for the district attorney's office.

So have there been technical violations? I'd yes. But at the same time, even if you read his April the First order, I believe it was, where he talks about, the judge talks about that there is a First Amendment right. This is a political season. He has, the defendant Trump has a chance to respond to attacks and that type of thing. The argument will be made likely by Trump's team that the comments by Cohen and about Cohen are sort of tit-for-tat, and what may be good for the goose is good for the gander. But it wouldn't surprise me to see some small fine. I think that's probably the way the judge will go in this case for some of the violations.

BERMAN: Look, there two things that this judge seems to prioritize, which is speed and also order. There really isn't too much he can do at this point if he wanted it to maintain even more order here with Donald Trump.

MOORE: That's right. I think the idea that he would incarcerate the former president is sort of nonsensical. I think that likely there will be some type of monetary fine, but I think more than anything else, this is a chance for him to sort of scold the children in the classroom about behaving improperly. And so before he brings out the switches and the paddles and those kinds of things, he's going to give them a good scolding at the chalkboard, and that's what you're going to see probably at 9:30.

BERMAN: All right, we're at a really interesting moment in this trial. The first witness is on the stand, David Pecker, and we just got the smallest preview yesterday of what his testimony will be. He talks about the fact that engages in checkbook journalism. Why get that out there yesterday? And what do you need to do with him if you or the prosecution right out of the gate today?

MOORE: He was a good witness for the prosecutors to call at first because juries like to hear a story, and they want to follow that story through the presentation of evidence. And so he really does begin to talk about how this works, the way that these stories come to him, the way that there's an effort put in place to keep them out of the media, and that type of thing, keep the stories, the salacious stories, at least, away from the news.

And so it's a good witness to start with. And I think the prosecutor probably put him up first because he is a witness the defense is likely to attack somewhat as a conspirator and whether or not he was actually doing something that Trump may not have known the full extent of, that type of thing. But he doesn't have the same baggage that some of the witnesses we expect later in the case, like Cohen and maybe even Miss Daniels might have.

BERMAN: And look, he was smiling when he was on the stand. He smiled at the defense when he walked out. How much of a difference does that make when the jury see someone who seems to be comfortable?

MOORE: Yes, it makes a difference, because from the time that you enter the courtroom until the time you leave, it's a performance. It's theater, really. And the jury is looking at everything they do. I used to tell clients don't even smoke a cigarette walking from the parking lot in because a juror may see you and any little thing may catch their attention, so just don't do it. And so I think it's important that they see that he's cuttable.

He has one thing that might actually hurt the prosecution, and that is if he makes this whole idea of catch and kill sound normal, if he seems to say, look, this is just how we do it. This is the normal thing. This happens in all kinds of stuff. We've done it for politicians throughout my time as the owner of "The Enquirer." If he talks about that and that seems to come across as something that there's nothing unusual here. There's nothing particularly nefarious about Trump's efforts to do this versus other politicians or other public figures, that begins to sort of take the edge off the idea of how this was just constructed solely to have some interference in the election. It becomes more of a this is just how things are done. If he does that, that could come back and be a problem that the district attorney's office has to overcome to show, in fact, this was an elicit conspiracy with criminal intent, which is ultimately what they have to have to prove.

BERMAN: That'll be really interesting to watch when he gets back on the stand in the, as you say, son of Georgia theater. Michael Moore, counselor, great to see you. Thank you very much.

MOORE: Great being with us.

BOLDUAN: American universities in crisis, struggling to contain growing pro-Palestinian protests on campus and sparking new fears over the safety and security of Jewish students.

[08:10:07]

What students are saying, we will bring that.

And new research shows that women are seeing better health outcomes when their doctors are women. We have more on the new data.

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SIDNER: This morning, the unrest on college campuses is growing. Pro- Palestinian protests have erupted at universities across the country from Massachusetts to northern California.

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The protests have resulted in arrests of both students and faculty and there is really no sign of the demonstration stopping anytime soon as the war continues between the Israelis in Gaza.

Columbia University here in New York has been the epicenter of the protests. They saw faculty stage a walkout with students in solidarity. All while calls for the university's president to resign are growing.

I am joined now by editor-in-chief and president of the "Columbia Spectator," Isabel Ramirez.

Thank you so much for being here.

First of all, can you just tell me what the temperature is on campus? What is it like being there and do you feel it? Is it very present when you're on campus?

ISABEL RAMIREZ, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF AND PRESIDENT, "COLUMBIA SPECTATOR": Absolutely.

It has been an incredibly tense and emotional time on campus as of late. For a university that is considered an activist Ivy, in my time at the university and my time as a reporter, now as an editor, this is probably the largest scale protests I have seen, both on and off campus.

Of course, we've been covering this since October 7th and probably one of the most prominent protests that we had at that time was on October 12th, but since then, there has sort of been a fluctuation in sort of what our campus has looked like remaining sort of tense, but because of a series of crackdowns on policies, disciplinary action, we've actually seen a dip in protest sort of at least recently.

But this was, or this past time has been really a revival of that and really in my gauge of the situation, I truly believe this is some of the strongest sort of outpouring that I've seen in terms of the adamant -- with the demand that the pro-Palestinian protesters are requesting of the university specifically, you know, they have been --

SIDNER: What is it that they are demanding? What is the demand that would change this in their view?

RAMIREZ: Sure. Yes. So they have made it very, very clear that they do not intend to leave until the university divest from companies, with potential ties to Israel and there has been kind of an evolution of those demands as well, demanding for financial transparency and a series of also the reversal of the suspensions, and also, the removal of the NYPD from our campus.

And so -- but I think the core of that demand is truly divestment and we have been seeing that spreading just yesterday, Columbia College passed -- the student body voted for a referendum advocating for divestment from Israel on behalf of the university.

SIDNER: We heard from the university president who talked about students feeling like they were being intimidated and dealing with some threats. She talked about it antisemitism.

What are you hearing from Jewish students who are also sort of seeing this? And I know there has been a little bit of back-and-forth sometimes your students will come out and there will be a back-and- forth between the two groups.

RAMIREZ: Yes, absolutely.

I mean, there has certainly been a concern for Jewish students on our campus, Jewish and Israeli students and I think part of that, there is a lot of nuance there still as well because just yesterday, you know, with the start of Passover, we actually had Jewish students hold the seder at the encampment.

And so, there sort of still remains an interesting divide there, but undeniably there has certainly been antisemitic incidents that have also kind of happened in the surrounding of these events of these protests and have been in some instances, quite severe, led to violence, violent rhetoric.

And so that is certainly undeniable, but there is also sort of ongoing conversation because there is actually quite not only Jewish students, but quite a contingent of Jewish faculty who are also navigating that space as both a Jewish member of our community, but also as someone who may have a diversity of viewpoints on this particular issue.

And so I think very crucial to this has been, you how do we at the same time advocate for free expression, the academic expression of students and faculty on our campus, while also mitigating the fact that there is incidences of rhetoric that goes too far, of rhetoric that is inciting, at times violence, but also there is an important differentiation to know between what is happening on our campus, what is happening off campus, which is to say, people who are not affiliated with the university and what they are saying, and that is certainly having impact on people.

But being able to differentiate that from the parties that are on campus and also always being specific about who are the actors in this and who do we hold accountable? And I think that is what our reporting has also aimed to do is to really identify that and to really make clear and avoid overgeneralizations that can be very harmful for all the communities involved in this.

SIDNER: Both the university president and some of the student groups that are involved here have said that outside forces have exacerbated this. They have sort of blown this up bigger. Is that true?

RAMIREZ: I mean, I think I was actually in DC for the hearing on Wednesday, and so being able to see that play out certainly highlighted that for me.

[08:20:10]

I think there are certainly outside sort of political pressures and in terms of, like you said, Columbia has become the epicenter of this idea of the American university coming around this issue. And so what I have seen is that this is looping into larger conversations about DEI on campuses, about sort of these bigger issues that we are contending with, not only within the university spheres, but just that politics out large.

And so I think there is interesting kind of microcosm on Columbia's campus of representing a polarization that I think is just something that we've spoken about just at-large in American politics, but also an interest in what is sort of like I said, DEI universities --

SIDNER: The issues.

RAMIREZ: The roles of these institutions in kind of diversity, equity, inclusion, and sort of the success and failures of what that has been.

SIDNER: It is really interesting to see what is happening on canvas and for some students, very scary; for other students, they feel like freedom of speech has been infringed upon and this fight is nowhere near over as you have said.

Isabel Ramirez, thank you so much for coming on and explaining all of this to us. I appreciate it.

RAMIREZ: Thank you. SIDNER: Kate.

BOLDUAN: All right, we are standing by for former President Donald Trump headed back to court to find -- it looks like cars or departing -- maybe he already got in the car.

Okay, I am told he did not get in there, regardless, he will be very soon heading out of there and heading back downtown to Lower Manhattan to head back into court, to find out first and foremost, if he is going to face a penalty for any violation of the gag order that the judge has put in place.

That is first up, we will bring you all of that.

And Britain's Prince Louis turns six today. The Royal family is releasing a new photo.

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[08:26:18]

SIDNER: All right, you're looking at live pictures of court in Lower Manhattan now, outside the courthouse, inside the courthouse very clearly where Donald Trump will be arriving any minutes and first up, a gag order hearing. Will he face new punishment for what he has said outside of court. We will find out.

We are were also watching this in the meantime, Prince Louis, the youngest child of Prince William and Princess Kate turns six years old today.

And in honor of his big day, the Royal family released a new photo of the young prince.

CNN's Max Foster joins us now.

Max, clearly an adorable photo, that is totally objective. Why all the interest in this adorable birthday pic?

MAX FOSTER, CNN ROYAL CORRESPONDENT: He only is fourth in line to the British throne. And as you say, great picture taken by his mother, interestingly, in the last few days in Windsor. She is still in recovery or treatment rather for cancer.

So I think there was some debate behind the scenes about whether they will release this picture, they ultimately did. The other thing that is interesting is how they released it.

So normally, we would have got a version before it was actually released, so we could prepare. This one was just put straight onto their own social media accounts, which is a different way of doing things.

A Royal source told me it wasn't edited. We can't see anything in it that suggests it was manipulated any way, but the reason that is important is because the last picture they sent out was edited. It caused a storm of controversy and all sorts of conspiracy theories.

So, I think this is a case of the palace sharing this moment. They have said they wanted to thank everyone for their best wishes to Louis, but also taking control of their own content, taking control of their own narrative, but also being as honest as possible, so they don't prompt all of these conspiracy theories that we had last time -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely, Max and I see a missing tooth in this photo and I love that. What does the tooth fairy bring to a prince?

FOSTER: Straight to the story.

BOLDUAN: That is what we need get down to.

It is good to see you, Max. Thank you so much.

FOSTER: Thank you, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Thank you.

SIDNER: Another crown, of course, Kate, that's what you get when you're a prince, I think.

BOLDUAN: I mean, don't let the girls try to hear this kind of stuff, right?

SIDNER: Fair enough.

BOLDUAN: I've got a six-year-old who has got several loose teeth right now.

SIDNER: All right, coming up, new research showing women have better health when their doctors are women.

We will explain, coming up.

And what is the case against Donald Trump relying heavily on his relationships with David Pecker? What will the former "National Enquirer" publisher say on the stand today?

We will be live.

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