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Speaker Johnson To Visit Columbia Amid Pro-Palestinian Protest; Soon: Supreme Court Weighs If States Can Ban Abortions In Medical Emergencies; Biden To Sign Bill That Includes Possible TikTok Ban. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired April 24, 2024 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00]

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That is from on-campus. So that would have been placed there from folks that are on campus at this point. We spoke to -- we've been speaking to students over the past few days and one of those students, a Jewish student told me that she didn't feel safe on campus because of an experience she had where she said those in the encampment formed a human chain and forced her and her friend out.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JESSICA SCHWAB, JEWISH STUDENT AT COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY: I pay to go to the school and the student here, and I should have equal access to all the resources like everyone else. There's nothing wrong with peaceful we protesting. I'm all for that. You absolutely have the right to protest.

But when you do things like that, that's crossing a line and that's turning into harassment.

KHYMANI JAMES, STUDENT ORGANIZER, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY: Our -- our position here at this demonstration, this encampment, it has always been about decolonization, anti-genocide, anti-war and for Columbia to divest, for Columbia to make transparent in public their investments. We are also calling for amnesty for all students who have faced disciplinary actions so far.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JIMENEZ: And on that first students, some of the students complained because they were violating the community guidelines, which if you go in there, there are lists of community guidelines listed.

But regardless, the school based on these tensions that have been there, have moves classes to be hybrid and we now have an extension of 48 hours for negotiations over how this encampment will be resolved or as the universe president mentioned in the previously mentioned midnight deadline, they will have to find alternative ways to clear the encampment. We don't know what those may be, but we know that last week, the NYPD was sent into clear those camps. We'll just have to see what happens this time around.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm very curious to see the atmosphere when House Speaker mike Johnson arrives there a little bit later.

Omar Jimenez, great to see you. Thank you very much -- Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Joining us right now is Democratic congressman from New Jersey, Josh Gottheimer, to talk much more about this.

Thank you so much for being here, Congressman.

You visited Columbia's campus on Monday. We know Republican House Speaker Mike Johnson, he's heading there today. The school decided to push classes to mostly hybrid for the rest of the semester. I think it ends next week, and now extending this deadline for negotiating to talk about what that encampments going to look like.

What is the right response?

REP. JOSH GOTTHEIMER (D-NJ): I think a couple of things that the university should do immediately. One, you have to make it a place that's safe for all students, of all backgrounds, right? And you should be pushing civil constructive discourse that what they've done with allowing for right now with these encampments in front of the library, letting students harass and intimidate other students, literally scream pro-Hamas statements in front of kids as you just heard, threaten, intimidate others, punch students none of that is acceptable.

They've got to keep people who are not students off of the campus, right? It actually creates a safe place for students. You know, everybody is always for constructive discourse. It's a university. You want debate. That's okay.

What they have now is totally unacceptable. Where your kids can't even go to class. They can't study. They can't leave their dorm rooms. I was there this week talking to students.

I mean, you can't imagine how they feel. This is not a place that's welcoming to Jewish students or frankly not a place that's welcome to a lot of people right now.

BOLDUAN: Congressman Ritchie Torres, another Democratic congressman. He's from New York. He said that just canceling in-person classes, he called it an admission of failure by the school. Do you think that --

GOTTHEIMER: I don't disagree with her. She -- I mean, in fact, is why are you forcing -- you're basically saying it's okay. We're not going to have classes. We're going to cancel classes and make you go virtual because we can't provide a safe space for you.

Imagine if you're a parent trying to -- sending your kid there and you're not -- and you're worried if your kid can't leave his or her dorm room. That is not an acceptable safe place. And this university like all universities, especially those who receive federal funding, have a responsibility to protect all students and to make them feel safe.

BOLDUAN: It's not just people -- it's not just happening on college campuses, not just Columbia. It's having a lot of places. It's not just being watched by, you know, people in the United States. And what is happening?

I just saw that the Israel defense minister actually put out a tweet just about an hour ago speaking directly about the protests at -- on U.S. campuses, saying they are not only as an -- they are not only antisemitic, but they're also inciting terrorism.

Do you -- I mean, do you go that far?

GOTTHEIMER: Well, I think certainly antisemitic, right? And when you have -- and I saw -- we've seen examples, you've read by bad examples. We've seen video, right?

We are all -- some screaming, we're all Hamas. Others said, this will not just happen one more time, not 1,000 more times, but 10,000 more times referring to Hamas attack on October 7th, the terrorist organization. So the fact that you have people on campus encouraging more terror activity, that's completely and totally unacceptable, but they should discipline these students, right? They should shut these encampments down.

BOLDUAN: Are you to a place that you think that -- are you to a place you're starting to think the president of Columbia, just as an example, should resign?

[09:35:01]

I know like the Republican delegation from -- the New York Republican delegation has gotten together to say that. Are you there?

GOTTHEIMER: Well, what I've said is it's up to the board -- ultimately up for the board of trustees.

BOLDUAN: Yeah.

GOTTHEIMER: But what's very clear is that time is running out last week, the president was -- that was before Congress saying how she's standing up to antisemitism, Kate, and antisemitic rhetoric, and to action. And now this week, it's about action. Is she actually going to -- is it just rhetoric or is she going to take steps here to make sure this antisemitic activity, and frankly, all hate, again, whether it's Islamophobic or antisemitic doesn't occur on this campus.

And what we're seeing now is she's letting it happen. So she gave herself 48 more hours to fix this. And I think times up after 48 hours.

BOLDUAN: Actually linked to this because the people who are protesting, it's basically kind of like a new version of the BDS movement. They want, you know, all -- all financial ties with Israel to be cut off. The Senate just passed the foreign aid bill late last night. And this

took months. You were very much involved with trying to get the House to move forward to take up the Senate bill. You essentially got that in the end with the addition of the potential TikTok ban.

Has your opinion of Speaker Johnson changed in the course of this? And what is the final message here?

GOTTHEIMER: Well, we also got an anti-Iran legislation in the end.

And here's my message: at the end of the day, Democrats and Republicans came together, right, from the middle, more -- more reasonable common sense approach versus bending to extremists. And in the end, we stood by our key ally, Israel. We stood by Ukraine, which is critical. Ukraine's in very deep trouble right now. We've got it and we cannot let Putin win.

We stood up to China by supporting Taiwan and we were able to get humanitarian aid into the region for Gaza, for innocent Palestinians being used as human shields by Hamas, right? And, of course, humanitarian aid around the world.

BOLDUAN: Did Johnson surprise you?

(CROSSTALK)

GOTTHEMER: I was -- listen, at the end, I was surprised that it all came together and glad that he actually stood up to extremists. You can't let extremists win, right? You have to let common sense when and get things done.

That's been always my approach as co-chair of the Problem Solvers Caucus. We were able to get people together. We're able to figure it out. And that's how we should legislate. You cannot let extremists control our country, right?

And frankly, you can't let extremists control the world, and that's why democracy at the end of the day has to win.

BOLDUAN: Yeah, I was going to say, is -- what ended up happening in the House and now the Senate is basically the mantra of the Problem Solvers Caucus which you're a co-chair of --

(CROSSTALK)

GOTTHEIMER: Exactly, get it done.

BOLDUAN: Just get it done.

GOTTHEIMER: And figure it out. You know, you've got to give a little bit and that's really what you saw happen to the end. People gave a little bit and it got done.

BOLDUAN: I know you always say hope springs eternal, but I don't know how -- how far this bipartisanship will extend.

GOTTHEIMER: Well, we got a lot left, come on, take --

BOLDUAN: Take the win, take the win, okay. Okay. Okay.

It's good to see you.

GOTTHEIMER: It's great to see you.

BOLDUAN: Thanks for coming in.

GOTTHEIMER: Thanks so much.

BOLDUAN: Sara?

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: I need a Problem Solvers Caucus in my House. I think --

BOLDUAN: Josh is available.

SIDNER: Maybe Josh --

GOTTHEIMER: I'm available.

SIDNER: -- can help me.

All right. Right now, but protest growing outside of the Supreme Court were justices are about to hear the most significant argument over abortion rights since it overturned Roe versus Wade.

Our Gabe Cohen is right there in the middle of it.

Listen.

GABE COHEN, CNN CORRESONDENT: Yeah, and Sarah, we're already seeing clashes between pro-choice and anti-abortion activists. We'll have video of that, and a closer live look at what's happening here outside the Supreme Court on this critical day.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:42:43]

SIDNER: Protests have begun outside the Supreme Court this morning as justice prepare to hear arguments in a major abortion case that will decide how far state abortion restrictions can go when it comes to what happens when a woman has a medical emergency.

CNN's Gabe Cohen is live outside of the Supreme Court.

Gabe, it started off quiet, but boy, things have changed at this hour.

COHEN: Yeah. Picking up quickly, Sarah, you can see behind me just growing crowd of pro-choice demonstrators who are gathering here. On the other side of these barricades over here, those are the anti- abortion activists. They're going to be these dueling programs really getting started here in the next 30 minutes. But even before all of that, we've already seen really tense clashes

between a couple of those anti-abortion activists who came over to this side, were chanting and yelling an immediately surrounded by a large group of people. Organizers that looked like from some of the reproductive rights organizations that are organizing this program here and they were yelling back and forth, trying to drown out the anti-abortion activist.

Sara, it really showed how even in the early hours of this morning, there is a lot of tension here between these two suicides. We will see what it looks like over the next few hours as the programs and those arguments got underway.

SIDNER: They will be getting underway and just a few minutes here actually. And we will be bringing that to you live and special coverage where you can hear the arguments for yourself in front of the Supreme Court justices.

Gabe Cohen, outside of the Supreme Court, where protests are fully in swing now, appreciate your reporting.

John?

BERMAN: All right. Very shortly, President Biden will sign a bill that could ban TikTok nationwide unless the app changed its owners. We have details on when that potential ban could take effect.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:49:02]

BERMAN: So when President Biden signs the $95 billion foreign aid package into law today, this will also start a count down to a possible nationwide TikTok ban. The Chinese parent company of TikTok, will be forced to sell or the platform could get kicked off app stores in the United States entirely.

CNN's Hadas Gold is with us now. I mean, really, the clock is ticking here.

HADAS GOLD, CNN MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Yes. So, once President Biden signs this into law, TikTok's parent company, ByteDance, has 270 days. That's about nine months before they need to spin off or sell the U.S. version of TikTok. There are some extensions that could be built into this, but the clock is now taking.

Now for years, American officials have cited security concerns over the Chinese ownership of this mega popular app with more than 170 million users. And now that talk is actually turning into action. This clock has started. They need to spin off or sell.

But it's unlikely that this is going to be off your home screens anytime soon. That's because TikTok has announced that they will be a mounting legal challenges to this.

[09:50:04] TikTok is saying this is a clear violation of the First Amendment, saying, this is the beginning, not the end of this long process.

Now, John, in honor of Passover, I have four questions about the future of TikTok, and this possible ban. First, will Chinese -- what the China will try and retaliate against American tech companies as a result of this law, what will happen to TikTok's algorithm if it is spun off? It will likely stay in China.

The algorithm, of course, is so valuable to this app. Who would potentially buy a TikTok spinoff? It's going to be very expensive, potentially tens of billions of dollars and where would the users go if TikTok changes? Most likely the beneficiaries of all this will be Meta and Instagram and Google and YouTube.

But the key aspect for people to remember in all of this is that this will take time and TikTok will most importantly stay on your phones through the November election.

BERMAN: So if you have a few billion dollars to spare right now and you're dying to spend some money, TikTok, apparently available.

Hadas Gold, great to see you. Thank you very much.

BOLDUAN: And thank you all so much for joining us. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

CNN's special coverage of the Supreme Court's oral arguments on this very important abortion case starts next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:55:34]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. You were live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington.

This morning, reproductive rights are once again in the hands of the Supreme Court. For the second time in as many months, the justices will weigh in on the reality facing some pregnant women in post-Roe America. Can states deny an abortion to a woman having a medical emergency such as organ failure or infection? Case in point, Idaho's restrictive abortion law.

Right now, one of the few exemptions in that state's abortion ban is when the life of the mother is imminently at stake. We expect the Supreme Court arguments from the government and a lawyer for the state of Idaho to begin shortly. We're going to show that to you live as its happening.

But I first want to go out to CNN's Gabe Cohen outside the Supreme Court.

Gabe, obviously, both sides are going to be out in force in front of the Supreme Court.

What can you tell us? What can you share with us right now?

COHEN: Well, Jim, look, that crowd has been very quickly growing. I apologize. It's hard to hear you out here.

I'm in this sea of abortion rights activists right now. Now they were gathered here, many of them over the past 30, 45 minutes, right outside the Supreme Court.

On the other side of all those barricades is going to be anti-abortion activists. We're going to have a program running at the same time as this one right around 10:00 a.m. and look, the program hasn't even gotten underway, and we've already seen some really tense clashes. At one point, a couple of anti-abortion activist came over to this side. They were chanting, they were yelling, and they were surrounded by abortion rights activists.

Some of the organizers from these reproductive rights groups trying to drown them out, trying to keep cameras from getting a look at them. There was a lot of tension there, a lot of shouting back and forth. Finally, those two activists did walk away, but it could be telling as to what today brings, Jim. Those arguments not even underway yet, and were already starting to see tense moments and we do expect a program would speakers to get underway around 10:00 a.m. as well.

So we'll see what that looks like in the coming minutes.

ACOSTA: Yeah. Obviously, emotions have not simmered down since Roe versus Wade was overturned. We're seeing that on display outside the Supreme Court. Thank you very much.

Here with me out now to discuss is CNN's Paula Reid, Meg Tirrell, and constitutional law professor Sonia Suter.

And let me start with you, Paula. What can you tell us about what were going to be hearing you think from these -- these justices as they go over this case?

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: So another incredibly significant case asking the court to help them interpret their decision to overturn Roe v. Wade. And here, they're focusing on the state of Idaho and the state has an abortion ban that does have an exception, more talking about medical emergencies that threatened a woman's life.

But the Biden administration says that under federal law, you shouldn't have to let it get that far before in the context of medical emergency, professionals can, you know, conduct this procedure. They say, look, if you need to perform an abortion to stabilize a patient, that is sufficient under federal law.

So that's what at stake here. I mean, do they need to wait in the state of Idaho before someone is in a medical life-threatening emergency or can you perform an abortion to stabilize someone?

That's really at the core here. It's just another big question after they overturned roe.

ACOSTA: Yeah. Meg, what are the implications for medical professionals? Because I mean, this is a huge issue out in Idaho. We're also seeing it play out in other states like Florida and Texas, where hospitals, doctors, nurses, they're afraid to treat women who come into emergency rooms go to their doctor with very serious complications during their pregnancies?

MEG TIRRELL, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. And that's a huge problem. It's this gap between what the law in Idaho says, which is you can intervene to save the life of the pregnant person. But then if somebody has a medical emergency that is not immediately life- threatening, the doctors there don't feel safe to treat them.

And so, you have situations like severe pre-eclampsia or hemorrhaging or premature water breaking. These are situations where, you know, if you're to certain stage of pregnancy, you cant deliver that baby if it's too early, but you need to save the life of the pregnant person, or need to preserve the health of the pregnant person because it can affect future fertility or their organs. It can have all kinds of health consequences where they're not on the brink of death. But that's what doctors are saying is really challenging for their care with the state.

ACOSTA: Right. If a mother wants to preserve her ability to have a pregnancy later on and so on.

And, Sonia, tell -- talk about this Idaho law a little bit.

[10:00:00]