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Tense Protests Rock Major U.S. Colleges Over Israel-Hamas War; Trump Named As Unindicted Co-Conspirator In Michigan Fake Electors Case; Arizona House Pushes Through Repeal Of Civil War-Era Abortion Ban. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired April 24, 2024 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

PARKER DE DEKER, JEWISH STUDENT AT COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY: And while I think there is this demand, I think if we continue to have university presidents resign and having a new person in this position, you have to catch them up over everything that's happening in the past six months. And that requires significant amount of change.

We only have three weeks left in the semester. And so I think rather than asking for university presidents to resign, we have to do one thing, request more accountability from our universities, request more transparency.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Parker De Deker we very much appreciate you sharing your perspective with up. Thanks for coming on.

DE PARKER: Thank you so much for having me.

SANCHEZ: We want to give you a look at the situation at Brown University, where there has also been a tension. CNN's Isabel Rosales is there for us. Isabel, give us an update on what it's like there right now.

ISABEL ROSALES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Boris, unlike what we've seen in some of the other campuses around the nation, the school here, Brown, says that they have had no reports of any cases of violence, harassment or intimidation. But clearly, the school is unhappy with this encampment that is set up right here on the main lawn because this is in violation of the school policy.

Right now, there's about 20 or so tents that just were brought up this morning, about six in the morning, with over 100 students gathering here throughout the day, chanting, singing, saying from Columbia to Brown, Gaza, we will not let you down.

And they made it very clear to me that they have two major demands, and that is for Brown to divest, cut any ties that the school might have when it comes to financials, whether that's connected to the Israeli government. They want those ties to be cut loose.

And second, to protect free speech on campus. They're asking for 41 students that were previously back in December arrested during a sit in for those charges to be dropped. Now, earlier in the day, we saw the students in a circle right here in

the main lawn. And then we saw university police escorting a school employee with a machine. And they were having each protester, one by one by one, scanning their IDs.

Now we know from one of the organizers who has forwarded us an email that they are getting their first real taste of this disciplinary action. They've received an email from the Student Conduct Office indicating that there is a disciplinary case that is being processed against them. That is what they told me.

The school, meanwhile, tells CNN that they needed to verify that these are actual students and not outsiders. And this is for safety reasons.

I spoke with several organizers that say that they understand very well that they could potentially face an arrest in the future or a suspension or expulsion and say that time will show that they are on the right side of history -- Boris, Brianna.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: All right, Isabel Rosales live for us at Brown in Providence, Rhode Island, as we are watching these pictures come to us from a number of universities, including UT Austin and USC in Southern California. Stay with us. We're monitoring protests at all of these colleges. We'll be right back.

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KEILAR: We have some breaking news. We have just learned that former President Donald Trump is an unindicted co-conspirator in the Michigan Attorney General's case against so-called fake electors.

SANCHEZ: You might recall last year, 16 Republicans were charged with conspiracy to commit election forgery after they allegedly attempted to replace the state's electoral votes for President Biden with votes for President Trump.

Marshall Cohen has been following this story. Marshall, walk us through the details here, starting with what being an unindicted co- conspirator entails.

MARSHALL COHEN, CNN REPORTER: Yes, Boris, this is a pretty big deal coming out of Michigan. As you mentioned, state prosecutors there already charged the Republicans who were actually fake electors in 2020. There was a pretrial hearing in the case earlier this morning, and one of the lead investigators in the probe was on the stand testifying about their investigation.

He was asked, under oath, who are the other unindicted co- conspirators, people who have been implicated in this criminal conspiracy but are not facing any charges at this time. And he confirmed for the very first time that that list includes former President Donald Trump, Trump's former attorney Rudy Giuliani, Trump's chief of staff when he was in the White House, Mark Meadows, and then finally Jenna Ellis, who was a Trump campaign attorney. What this means is that state prosecutors in Michigan believe that

those four people were co-conspirators in this fake electors plot, though I want to, of course, stress they are not facing charges in Michigan at this time.

They were all charged in Georgia. You remember that big election interference case down in Georgia? They were all charged there. Ellis pleaded guilty. The other three deny wrongdoing -- guys?

KEILAR: All right, Marshall Cohen, thank you so much for that report.

SANCHEZ: Any minute now, House Speaker Mike Johnson is set to meet with Jewish students at Columbia University over concerns about their safety. And we understand he's set to call for the school's president to resign. All of this happening as protests break out across the country.

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[15:44:27]

SANCHEZ: We're now awaiting remarks from House Speaker Mike Johnson from Columbia University, one of several major U.S. colleges facing a wave of pro-Palestinian protests on their campuses. And some of these protests coincide with reports of anti-Semitism and dozens of arrests as officials face mounting pressure to confront this crisis.

KEILAR: Let's talk now with CNN senior political analyst Mark Preston. Mark, this Columbia visit by Speaker Johnson, what is he trying to do here? Is this going to de-escalate things or could it have the opposite effect?

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MARK PRESTON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, it's certainly not going to de-escalate things, but what it's doing is that he's sending a message not only to his base, but he's also sending a message to Jewish voters across the country as well as to the leaders in Israel that he stands with them, that he doesn't stand necessarily with these protests that are happening, specifically the anti-Semitism that we've seen that has sparked out of this, the violence that we have seen spark out of this.

And in fact, this morning he was on Hugh Hewitt's radio show when he talked about that Specifically. He said for him to go to New York this week was the right thing to do. He also said that he wants to look into potentially revoking federal funding from some of these schools that are not protecting the Jewish students who are on campus.

And he also goes as far as to say that he would suggest revoking visas for those students who are here on these campuses that are not United States citizens who are protesting.

SANCHEZ: Mark, do you think this has the potential to backfire on Speaker Johnson? PRESTON: No, not at all. I mean, look, I think at this point, I think

if you were to take a poll across America and ask people what they think about these protests, everyone, or just about everyone, you would hope would say they have the right to protest. What they don't have the right to do though, and we have to be emphatic about this, is to talk about violence, to upset folks, to target students who are Jewish just because of the foreign policy decisions of the United States. That's entirely wrong, and I think that it's an easy message for Johnson today to be sending.

KEILAR: And what about for President Biden, Mark? I mean, where do things stand for him right now as we're watching? And look, some of these universities, it's towards the end of the year. We should keep that in mind, right? They're going into finals in some of these places. But what does this mean for President Biden as we are watching this across all of these college campuses?

PRESTON: I think the calendar is on his side in that sense. Brianna, you're right. It is towards the end of the school year. You're going to see these campuses probably empty out. Eighty percent of them, maybe 85 percent of these kids are going to go back home. You're not going to see these widespread protests certainly that we have seen in the coming months on these college campuses.

I think for President Biden, who's supposed to be in New York this week, I think for him to go to Columbia would be a huge mistake. I don't know what he brings to it other than bringing more chaos and more focus on an issue that his administration right now doesn't seem to necessarily have the answer to resolve. Nor do I think that maybe his administration should have the answer to resolve. This is a much bigger issue than one person.

SANCHEZ: To that point, Biden has been getting relatively low marks for his handling of the situation, especially among that leftward flank of the Democratic Party. I want to pivot, Mark, with you because last night was the Pennsylvania primary, and a sizable share of Republican primary voters actually cast a ballot for Nikki Haley, even though former President Trump clinched his party's nomination over a month ago. There's a lot of -- there's, I would say, a lack of confidence among those independent voters who -- or rather just right- leaning voters who opted for Haley over Trump.

How does this issue play out amongst Republicans in specifically that the focus that some voters on the right will have toward President Trump and whether he will best handle the situation overseas?

PRESTON: Well, you know, it's -- so I spoke to one of Nikki Haley's -- someone who's very close to Nikki Haley which just describe it as that and ask what has she been up to? What does she think about the results that we saw last night?

Now, what I was told just in generalities right now is that Donald Trump right now, we should note, has not reached out to Nikki Haley at all, nor has he made any effort to try to reach out to her voters. And as this person told me just a few hours ago, nothing has changed, you know, for Nikki Haley. But what they're very surprised about is that Trump nor any of his allies have tried to make any headway with these voters.

This person said to me it's not about him breaking bread with Nikki Haley and trying to get her to come and support him. It's more about him talking about issues that she championed that's going to get those voters to come support him. And if you look at Pennsylvania last night, just to put it in very stark terms for the Trump campaign, Nikki Haley got 157,000 votes after she had, you know, canceled her campaign a couple of months ago.

Joe Biden, 2020, only won Pennsylvania by 81,000 votes. Now, I'm not a mathematician. I failed math in college. I'll tell you all my weaknesses. But I can tell you that you double 81 and that's pretty much close to what Nikki Haley was able to pull out of Pennsylvania last night. That's problem problematic for the Trump campaign.

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SANCHEZ: Yes, a zombie campaign that gets that many votes. It tells you something. Mark Preston, thanks so much for the perspective.

PRESTON: Thanks, guys.

SANCHEZ: So we are awaiting remarks from House Speaker Johnson as he visits Columbia University. We're going to bring you his live remarks to students and to campus once they start.

Stay with CNN.

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KEILAR: Breaking news out of, pardon me, out of Arizona, where the House of Representatives has just voted to overturn the state's Civil War era abortion law. The law, which was passed before Arizona was a state and before women had the right to vote, bans nearly all abortions, with just one exception, and that is to save the life of the mother.

[15:55:02]

The repeal now moves to the Senate, where it's expected to pass.

SANCHEZ: Yes, CNN's Natasha Chen is in Phoenix following the story for us. Natasha, lawmakers tried to do this twice before and failed. What was different this time?

NATASHA CHEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: A few people just needed an extra week, apparently. There were a handful of Republicans who joined Democrats voting along party lines there to push through this repeal. And as you mentioned, now it goes to the Senate, where it is also expected to pass there also with a little help from Republicans for the Democrats.

I'm standing now with Representative Stephanie Stahl Hamilton, the author of the repeal bill, a Democrat here who has been pushing for this. Tell me just your initial reaction to today. REP. STEPHANIE STAHL HAMILTON (D-AZ) ARIZONA STATE LEGISLATURE: There is a lot of relief. I've been -- it's emotional. I've been keeping my emotions in check, knowing that we needed to be smart and we needed to be steady and rooted and continue to work hard in order to meet the moment.

CHEN: Did you think this was going to happen today?

HAMILTON: More so than the last two weeks when we showed up. I was very hopeful. I'd had some good conversations last night that led me to believe that I think we would get there today.

CHEN: Tell me, what was the most difficult part of this process? You heard a lot of emotional debate on the floor. You heard Republicans calling this egregious, that they're disgusted. What do you have to say to your colleagues on the other side?

HAMILTON: I respectfully disagree. I think this is something where we've -- we have been divided my whole time here in the Arizona legislature. And I think for me the most difficult piece was knowing that we needed to get the bill on the board and trying to get the votes to work around the speaker.

CHEN: Thank you so much.

And just to let our viewers know that there is also a ballot initiative in the works for November that would enshrine abortion rights in the state's constitution. Of course, Republicans are discussing the possibility of a countermeasure to that -- Boris and Brianna.

KEILAR: All right, Natasha, we'll be looking for that. Natasha Chen live for us from Arizona.

And any minute now, House Speaker Mike Johnson is expected to be speaking at Columbia University, where he'll call, as we understand it, for the university's president to resign.

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SANCHEZ: House Speaker Mike Johnson is about to speak at Columbia University at that podium where he is set to call for the school's president to resign.

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This among several major U.S. colleges facing a wave of pro- Palestinian protests on their campuses. We've seen scenes of tension and violence at the University of Texas and the University of Southern California as well, Brianna.

KEILAR: Yes, we certainly have and we've been watching these develop and it seems like today there just is a bit of a fever pitch being reached in some of these college communities, particularly USC and UT Austin today. So we'll continue to keep an eye on that here on CNN. Where "THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts right now.