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Columbia University Sets Deadline for Pro-Palestinian Protesters to Vacate Campus; Demonstrators at Columbia Vote to Stay Despite Facing Suspension; NYPD Intervenes as Columbia University Protesters Defy Eviction Deadline; University of Texas Experiences Growing Protests Amidst National Campus Tensions. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired April 29, 2024 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN ANCHOR: It is the top of the hour 2 p.m. here on the east coast which means it is deadline time at Columbia University in Manhattan. The school has given pro-Palestinian protesters until right now to either leave campus or face suspension. This deadline coming this morning after school officials announced negotiations with pro-Palestinian protesters had failed.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: It appears though many demonstrators inside the encampment are refusing to leave voting to stay beyond this 2 p.m. deadline that has just passed. They are expected to hold a news conference just 30 minutes from now. We have reporters being allowed onto the campus right now for the first time today. Our Omar Jimenez is among those making his way in and we will go to him shortly live. First though let's go to Miguel Marquez who is just outside of campus where protesters have gathered. Miguel what are you seeing there?

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah this has been weeks of action and reaction and I want to show you sort of the reaction. So that call went out this morning that if the protesters did not leave the encampment by 2 p.m. today they could face suspension or other disciplinary actions. We'll walk around here down the sidewalk. The police have moved in pretty quickly and set up barricades. We just want to walk along the protest here to give you a sense of how big it is. Several dozen. There's a lot of media in here as well. These individuals cannot get onto campus. All of the ways onto campus right now are being controlled by security for Columbia University and NYPD is now on the scene as well. NYPD moved in pretty quickly once they called for protests. So they put out a call for protests around noon, the protesters who are in the encampment in the main lawn in Columbia University.

What you're looking at down the street here, that's the bookstore and you can see all those people in the-and those barricades that police have set up down there as well they're trying to create a situation where they can put protesters and media and students and keep them separated. Very long lines for students right now to get on to Columbia University. This is crunch time as well. This is the end of the semester and a lot of them have tests and exams that they have to get done and then commencement in a couple of weeks . So there's a lot happening here at Columbia University. If we just keep walking down the street here, I'm going to show you. So these gates are the closest to where the protesters are inside Columbia which is only about two or three hundred feet inside there. But you can see students still trying to get in there. Police now at- this is NYPD now at this gate. That was earlier it was just security but protesters still inside the main lawn at Columbia. Back to you guys.

MARQUARDT: All right Miguel Marquez just outside Columbia University. You can see those barricades there and as Miguel was just saying a greater presence by the NYPD. Our Omar Jimenez has made his way inside onto the campus of Columbia University at the encampment. Omar the administrators had asked those protesting to leave voluntarily by 2 p.m. Is there any sign that anyone's leaving and it's dispersing?

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well the sign that we have right now is these are all protesters that have now encircled the encampment here. They are just marching in a circle around the encampment over and over again, doing so essentially multiple times since we've seen here. There are plenty of people still inside the encampment right now and we don't see at this point any efforts from the university to go in and forcibly remove people. But of course we are now past that 2 p.m. deadline where these students were given a choice to either clear the encampment voluntarily or face suspension. Now look you can see just the mass scale of the amount of folks that are circling here. This is outside the Baker library here at Columbia which has sort of been right out in front of what has been the focal point of encampment here. Now as you just heard from Miguel there are also protests happening outside of the gates of this university tied likely to this deadline. But we have seen this from the beginning that this encampment has said from the beginning that they wanted the university to divest from Israel.

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We heard this morning that the university had reached an impasse on those negotiations, essentially ending those negotiations, and flat out saying definitively that the university will not divest in Israel. And then, of course, we have hours later they set this deadline for them to leave, and if anything we have seen it only being more emboldened over the course of campus here. Now, there is at least one student group, a now suspended student group, that had encouraged people to show up here around noon, like two hours before this actual deadline, to protect the encampment.

Whether that had to do with what we're seeing right now, it does seem that that may be part of why they are encircling this particular camp and the numbers that they are. Also, I should mention, right before this 2 p.m. deadline, the students inside this encampment voted to stay. There was a vote that was held, and there was a large number of them, a majority as we understand, that voted to stay in this encampment and, of course, face the consequences that the university has promised that they will face up to this point, even at one point trying to tell people who are here on visas that you should think long and hard about staying in this encampment. Now, I'm talking to you within the first literal minutes of us stepping into campus, so we haven't gotten a chance to speak and hear from students just yet, but you know what? Let me try and ask one of these students here. Excuse me, were you guys in the encampment earlier? And you guys came out to protest? What is the purpose of the circling protest?

UNKNOWN: So I think around, it's like more people coming over, just in support. And I think because from the camp that I can see that there are less people compared with this morning. So I think part of it and like, including me are, you know, outside to protect the camp.

JIMENEZ: So were you in the camp before the 2 p.m. deadline and then you left when it came?

UNKNOWN: Yeah.

JIMENEZ: Why did you choose to leave?

UNKNOWN: So, yeah, I just came out. I just, yeah, I didn't leave or sign like the message, like the, I didn't sign the slip or if that's what you're referring to, I came out to listen to the speech and then I go in circles. So, yeah.

JIMENEZ: Gotcha. And the circling right now is to protect the encampment.

UNKNOWN: Yeah.

JIMENEZ: Okay. And why are you all protecting the encampment? Why do you feel the need to?

UNKNOWN: Because the school, like, of course they send us an email saying like, okay, the police are, like calling the police again is not effective and you will probably backlash even like in a larger extent. But like, but our, like our demands are not met. Just because they're not getting the police to arrest us doesn't mean that, you know, like our demands are met. So that's why we feel the need to continue to protest and this camp is, symbolizes like the every start of the students encampments like around the United States and also like in the wider part of the world. So, we feel the need to protect this encampment and also, yeah, just...

JIMENEZ: And what's your name?

UNKNOWN: Sorry, I can't say.

JIMENEZ: Okay.

UNKNOWN: I can't touch you now.

JIMENEZ: All right. All right. So, she's not going to give her name, but obviously you hear that they are circling this encampment to protect the encampment as part of their protest here. And she was one of those students or they were one of those students that was inside the encampment prior to the 2 p.m. deadline. And while they didn't fully leave, they decided the next phase of letting their voice heard would be to circle and try and protect here. Now, they mentioned the police department being called. That happened in the very early days of the encampment and yesterday, the university president said that they did not. They thought it would be counterproductive to call them this time and that's part of why, likely part of why we're seeing this internal step being taken now. Though what happens from here on out, because clearly there are folks that are defying this deadline--

UNKNOWN: We will not stop.

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JIMENEZ: we still do not know.

KEILAR: She's not telling you her name. Certainly, these students feel that they are under threat of suspension or maybe even worse, for as you mentioned, those who have visas. Omar Jimenez, thank you for that live report from Columbia. We will continue to keep an eye on what is happening there as this deadline has just passed by nine minutes and students are encircling the encampment there. We're joined now by Hagar Chemali, who is an adjunct professor at the university. Thank you so much for being with us, Hagar. This deadline has passed just several minutes ago. The university has said students are subject to suspension if they do not leave this encampment. One student group said, we have informed the university that we are prepared to escalate our direct actions if they do not adopt basic standards of conduct for negotiations. That's sort of an umbrella group of a number of student organizations. What steps do you think administrators should take to de-escalate the situation?

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HAGAR CHEMALI, ADJUNCT ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY: Oh, it's a tough question. Listen, I can tell you, having seen from the inside, that the dialogue that the administration is pursuing with the students, particularly since the last arrests that took place about 10 days ago, that they've been in very good faith. And I know we as faculty, we've been kept informed multiple times a day, sometimes at 2 a.m. and 4 a.m. And I mean, they are working around the clock to pursue these dialogues. And they were really hopeful. I mean, all the messaging up until this point was that the dialogue with the student protesters was in progress, that they were facing progress, that they were improving because the students were changing certain things and agreeing to certain things like less inflammatory rhetoric, no anti- Semitism or hateful language, which I myself saw on campus, by the way.

And so things, it looked like they were improving. And the campus, the administration really did not want to get to this point. And they made that very clear. They said over and over again, they don't want to invite the police to campus. But at the very end of the day, there are rules. This is exam week. Kids need to be studying. They need to be focused. And the fact is that you've got a minority of students who are creating an environment that is very difficult to work, to pursue studies, and many who feel on top of it unsafe. And that rules, if they're not going to be enforced, are useless. And so I don't know how it's going to happen. But I will tell you that if they're suspended, then given the rules right now, they will be trespassing on campus. And so hopefully that it will end peacefully with security and not the police itself. But it is a possibility always that the police are invited back.

MARQUARDT: Hagar, we've seen and heard all kinds of things from these protesters, calls to end the war, calls for divestment from Israel, some truly horrific examples of anti-Semitism. You are a former national security professional. I know you've been following this war in Gaza very carefully. How much of what we're seeing now, particularly some of that ugliness that I just mentioned, do you think would disappear if that war ended in Gaza today? Or do you think that something's been unleashed that will be difficult to erase?

CHEMALI: Well, I think you have two issues at hand. So if you had a ceasefire this week, which by the way is possible. Israelis have proposed a ceasefire that is right now in Hamas's lap as we speak. Secretary Blinken came out and said it was, quote, extraordinarily generous and he hopes Hamas takes it. And if you have a ceasefire, I definitely think it would calm tensions down for sure so that the protests aren't as heated. But you're still going to have protesters want divestment. Maybe they're going to want aid to Israel to be conditioned, for example. Those desires, I think, are unleashed and will still be there. But my concern as a professor and also, I would say, as a different generation, there is a generational divide here in what seems acceptable in terms of language and views among these protesters who call for intifada, who call for resistance by any means necessary, things of this kind.

And that's what I am concerned because that when you're going down that path of questioning the right of Israel to exist, it means that this type of issue is going to linger on for a while. And there's some real education there that needs to happen. Kids don't seem to even understand what is anti-Semitic language. And that's my concern, is that you are going to see some things linger. But the immediate protests right now, yeah, you'll see a little calm down if the war ends or if there's a temporary ceasefire.

MARQUARDT: As you say, there is a potential for a ceasefire that's being discussed in Cairo as we speak among all the parties. Hagar Chemali, thank you so much for joining us today. We really appreciate it. We also have some breaking news right now. Protests are growing on the University of Texas. That's the Austin campus. He names Ed Lavandera. Is there, Ed, what are you seeing on that campus?

UNKNOWN (SHOUTING): Free, free, free, Palestine.

ED LAVENDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is a situation that is quickly developing here on this campus, Alex. What you see behind me is a number of protesters who had been gathering out here throughout the morning, having poetry readings, some art sessions at what was supposed to have been billed as a educational setting of a protest, as some professors were also holding a silent vigil. But then in just a matter of moments, these protesters gathered up all the tables that have now encircled this area and set up some tents. And they're now calling this the liberated zone on the south mall of the campus. And let's be clear, it is a very small gathering at this point, but

this is exactly the kind of scene that university officials have been very clear that they were not going to allow in any kind of way. In fact, in speaking with university officials over the course of the last week, there was definitely a sense that what they had seen play out at other campuses across the country, they did not want to see play out here. In fact, just a moments ago, from the university police department, they sent out a campus wide dispersal order telling these protesters that they are in violation of university rules and gathering rules and that they will face arrest here for disorderly conduct if they do not disperse.

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Right now, the police presence, and we can show you off to the side, is just a handful of Austin police officers. They're under the trees and in some areas. You clearly get the sense that right now what law enforcement is doing is trying to assess the situation, figure out what they're going to do next. I must point out again that this all kind of developed very quickly as university professors were finishing up and wrapping up a silent vigil on the steps of the UT Tower.

And this is a significant location, Alex, here on this campus, we should point out, because here in the coming weeks, this is the area that is used for the university-wide commencement ceremony. So this is an area that obviously university officials are very concerned about, and this is the kind of thing that they were trying to prevent. But this is also a situation that we could see kind of potentially escalating here in the hours ahead. Alex.

KEILAR: And, Ed, I do want to ask you, part of the reason we're keeping such an eye on UT Austin is because of what we saw there last week. You had a number of colleges across Texas in the UT system where students gathered and they protested. But the reaction by law enforcement was different at UT Austin. You had almost 60 people, a number of them students, arrested. Eventually they were barred from campus, and then the university kind of walked that back. Now they're totally allowed back on campus. It is interesting, as you see law enforcement kind of off there to the side assessing the situation. What's the thinking there of campus officials as they try to maybe avoid some of what happened last week?

LAVANDERA: Well, I think what we've heard over the last week, and this is going back to last Wednesday when you saw this massive presence of state troopers show up here on the campus, as you mentioned, nearly 60 people arrested for trespassing. You should also point out that the county attorney, those were misdemeanor charges. All of those charges were dropped against the protesters. But there was always a great concern that they did not want to allow any kind of encampment, any kind of tents. That would prolong and create a situation where the protesters would be on campus for an extended period of time, as we've seen play out at other campuses like Columbia and Yale across the country.

I think the university administration here had seen that, and they were thinking they would much rather end it as early as possible and not allow that to happen. That is their thinking. These protesters obviously feel very differently that they have the right to free speech and to be able to voice their opinions about what has happened in Gaza and in Israel. So that is the dynamic that is playing out here, here in this very kind of significant part of the University of Texas campus.

KEILAR: All right, Ed Lavandera live for us from Austin. We'll keep an eye on the situation there. Stay with CNN News Central. We're following all of the breaking news on college campuses. These are live pictures that you're watching of Columbia University. We're also keeping our eye on developments in Israel and the Gaza war. We'll be right back.

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KEILAR: Let's go back to Columbia University now. A 2 p.m. deadline ordered by the school obviously has come and gone. Student demonstrators remain in that encampment they set up to protest the Israel-Hamas war. And they're making multiple demands.

MARQUARDT: For now, the NYPD, it appears, remains outside the campus. But those demands, Brianna was just referring to, include a ceasefire, divestment from weapons makers, and the end of Columbia University's program in Tel Aviv. Now, Columbia has warned the protesters that if they don't leave that space, if they don't decamp from the center of campus that you're looking at right now, the students would be suspended. So, I'm going to get straight back to CNN's Omar Jimenez at Columbia. Omar, you made your way in there just a short time ago. We had heard that protesters are going to be holding a news conference any minute. What can we expect from them?

JIMENEZ: Yeah, right now, we're waiting to see if that actually materializes. Because what we're seeing right now is a group of protesters, that is now encircling the encampment. So, you see them, they're essentially walking back around me and around the encampment here. Little by little, they've done it repeatedly. And then you see over to my right here, this is the encampment itself. So, it's right in the middle of essentially the main quad here at Columbia University. This is where the university said students should be vacating at 2 p.m. local time. Otherwise, they face suspension. Clearly, we still see folks inside. And before this 2 p.m. deadline, there was a vote where students, the majority as we understand, voted to defy that 2 p.m. deadline.

And now, when it happened, obviously, the university had threatened, essentially, for these students to sign on to the university policies or face suspension. And that is when these students, some of whom were inside the encampment prior to the 2 p.m. deadline, came outside and then now are encircling it to try and protect it. To catch people up on this saga, this goes back almost two weeks ago to this point. The first day of the encampment essentially started with the university president, Manu Shafiq, testifying on Capitol Hill about rising anti- Semitism on college campuses.

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Then, not long after that, the university, at the direction of the university president, called in the New York Police Department to clear out this encampment. It drew a lot of criticism from not just students, but faculty as well, who believe that's what raised the temperature, not just at this campus, for other places as well. So then the camp came back. Day after day, we saw it there with tensions going back and forth. We had a student organizer for it, kicked off of campus for comments, anti-Semitic comments he had made in the past.

And then there were negotiations between the university and the student protesters for trying to voluntarily get this encampment off of the campus, or at the very least come to some sort of resolution. This seems to be the first step by the university to test whether they will do so voluntarily. What remains to be seen is what happens after this, because clearly there are those that have defied that first deadline.

MARQUARDT: Yeah, it doesn't look like that's going to happen anytime soon. Omar Jimenez on Columbia University's campus will be back with you as the day unfolds. I want to bring in a CNN senior political analyst, Mark Preston. Mark, as we watch these protests spread, we have new CNN polling showing just how much Americans disapprove of Biden's handling of this war between Israel and Hamas. It obviously extends well beyond just about those college campuses and those college students. So what are you seeing in these numbers?

MARK PRESTON; CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, you know, Alex, we do have this new poll out right now that these images are certainly not helping Joe Biden when he's trying to deal with this Israel-Hamas situation. Look at these numbers right here. How is Joe Biden handling this situation right now? Only 28 percent of Americans right now approve of how he is handling this situation between Israel and Hamas. But what is even more difficult, and you can put a number to a face right now, is look at how he is doing with young kids right now. Look at these numbers right here. His approval rating with people under the age of 35 on this Hamas issue is 19 percent. Now, when you're going into an election year right now and you are looking at a key constituency of your voting bloc, young people for Democrats, that is incredibly troubling right now for the Biden administration.

KEILAR: He's having a tough time as well when it comes to his own party, and he's got to work to regain some trust there if he wants to repeat, obviously, a win here in November. Only 46 percent of Democrats approve of his handling of the Gaza situation.

PRESTON: I mean, we are seeing this play out right now, not only here on college campuses, in the halls of Congress. You are seeing, you know, the likes of Omar Jimenez going, excuse me, Omar, our guy out there. But you are talking about members of Congress right now who are at odds with the administration coming out publicly criticizing the Biden administration, joining these protests in some cases. And, in fact, we're even seeing a split amongst Democrats who are now writing letters saying that they want these college campuses protests to end because they know that it's a political loser for them. MARQUARDT: I think it was 21 Democrats who wrote that letter. That's a fair bit of overlap with Republicans, which, you know better than we do, you rarely see these days in Congress.

PRESTON: Yeah, you certainly don't, but certainly on this issue.

MARQUARDT: Mark Preston, thank you very much. Don't go anywhere. We are following all of this breaking news as protests all across the country grow. Stay with us.

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