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Trump Hits Campaign Trail; Clashes on College Campuses; Polls on Abortion; Trump's New York Trial; Mayor Eric Adams Speaks about Protests. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired May 01, 2024 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: Since his trial began. So that's very significant.

But, look, he's going to be in Wisconsin. I'm here in Waukesha. You can see the crowd behind me has started to gather here. Doors will open later today. And then later he's going to be speaking in Michigan.

And these are both very critical battlegrounds that his campaign and his advisers have told me they are characterizing as must win in order to win the White House ahead of November.

Now, part of what he's going to be focusing on today in both of his speeches is the issues that he thinks Joe Biden is most vulnerable on. That includes crime, the border, immigration more generally, but also Joe Biden's handling of the war in the Middle East. Now, when I've talked to Trump's advisers about his visits here, both in Michigan and in Wisconsin, they argue that they've been paying very close attention, not just to polling, but also the protest votes that they saw cast in the Democratic primary against Joe Biden. And so I think you can expect some of that language and that rhetoric to come through in Donald Trump's speeches.

Now, they've also, you know, when they talk about November and being here on the ground, I just want to point out that one of Donald Trump's most recent visit was to both of these states about a month ago. And again, we have not seen Donald Trump a lot on the trail. And so the fact that he is coming back here less than a month later, both to Michigan and to Wisconsin, really underscores that they need to be hitting the ground here in both of these states very hard as they look to campaign against Joe Biden.

John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, when you start doing the Electoral College math, it is clear that this election could easily hinge on Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania.

Alayna Treene, in Wisconsin today, thank you very much.

Kate. TREENE: Exactly.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: So, new CNN polling showing where Americans think their own state's abortion laws are too restrictive. We've got much more from this new polling coming out.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:36:19]

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, we've seen a crackdown on college campuses across the country, from here in Columbia, where the police in large numbers stormed Hamilton Hall to take out pro-Palestinian protesters who had broken in an occupied that building. Dozens of people arrested here.

In Tulane, SWAT teams have gone in and there has been a rumble on that campus.

And then all the way to the other side of the country, in California, in Los Angeles, there is a large police presence at UCLA at this hour. We are watching police in riot gear there on that campus after violence broke out on that campus overnight with fireworks being thrown into the pro-Palestinian encampment from those who support Israel.

There has been clashes. We have seen a student beaten. We have seen people holding all kind - all manner of things like boards and pipes to try and get the protesters out of that encampment.

Now, that's - that is two groups that have nothing to do with the police. Now the police are on campus and the university has declared there at UCLA, they have declared that that encampment is illegal. We just spoke with a student who said they have not yet been told by the police that they must disperse, which is something they have to do legally. But we will be watching that scene very closely.

Meanwhile here on the Columbia campus, we are hearing from two professors who I just spoke with who are telling me that some of those students and some of the people who were inside of Hamilton Hall occupying it as pro-Palestinian protesters have been now released from jail. Some of them, they said, had lacerations and bruises, that they are treating themselves with volunteer medics outside here in New York. But we do understand that some of the people who were inside of that hall have now been released from jail after being arrested overnight. About 100 people arrested overnight between Columbia University here in New York and City College as well.

There is still a large police presence surrounding Columbia at this hour. And we'll be watching all of this all throughout the show.

John.

BERMAN: All right, Sara, thank you very much.

New this morning, a six-week abortion ban takes effect in Florida this morning. We have a new CNN poll out just this morning that shows that in states with some kind of a gestational limit, either six weeks or 15 weeks, on abortions, almost two-thirds say those bans are too restrictive.

With us this morning, CNN's senior data reporter, Harry Enten.

That's in states with restrictions. As we look toward the election -

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: Yes.

BERMAN: And we talk about important states, swing states in the election, what does the polling show?

ENTEN: Yes. So, let's take a look at states that will or may have an abortion measure on the ballot, say abortion should be legal. In Arizona, 59 percent believe that abortion should be always or mostly legal. In Nevada it's two-thirds, 66 percent. Now in Florida, where all the news is developing this morning, 57 percent of registered voters say that, in fact, abortion should be legal up to 24 weeks.

Now, why is that 57 percent important? Because in Florida, in order for a ballot measure to pass, you need 60 percent of the vote. So, even though the majority here believed that abortion should be legal up to 24 weeks, the fact is, that may not be enough to enshrine abortion rights in the state of Florida because, again, you need at least 60 percent of the vote to do so.

BERMAN: If you are the Biden campaign looking at these numbers in important states for them on the map, particularly Arizona and Nevada, what do you see?

ENTEN: Yes, you love the fact that abortion is in the news because, would Biden or Trump do a better job?

[08:40:04]

This is nationally. Look at abortion. Biden leads on this measure by 14 points. It's by far his best issue. The economy, Trump leads. Immigration, Trump leads. Foreign conflicts, Trump leads. And even on preserving democracy, which has obviously been a focal point of the Joe Biden campaign, he only leads on the issue by - this issue by four points. So, abortion being in the news is something that Joe Biden wants because it's the issue that he runs most ahead of Donald Trump on.

BERMAN: What to the polls now say about how important the abortion issue could be in voting?

ENTEN: Yes. So, all right, you see this 14-point lead for Joe Biden, but will abortion be important for votes - for folks in their voting patterns.

So, in our new CNN poll, abortion affect your vote for major offices? Candidates must share your views, only 23 percent, John. Only 23 percent of Americans say that candidates must share your views on abortion. So, even if they agree with Joe Biden, it doesn't necessarily mean they'd vote for him.

And more than that, John, when we look at the top issues, the nation's most urgent issues, look where abortion is on this list. It's all the way down at 5 percent. The issues that are at the top of this list are immigration and the economy, which, of course, are Donald Trump's best issues.

BERMAN: Democrats are convinced that abortion helped them do well in the 2022 midterm elections. It's interesting to see if maybe something's not showing up on the polling. But right now it's not showing up in the polling -

ENTEN: It is not, John.

BERMAN: As a driving issue.

Harry, thank you very much.

ENTEN: Thank you.

BERMAN: Kate.

BOLDUAN: Let's take this all together. Let's get some perspective politically. Joining us right now is CNN political commentator and Democratic strategist Maria Cardona and CNN senior political commentator, Republican strategist, former Trump campaign adviser, David Urban.

Maria, let's just jump in to recap very briefly what we just heard from Harry and John, because the numbers are interesting. I want to hear what it means though for strategy. This - abortion is the issue that Joe Biden runs most ahead of Donald Trump on. Twenty-three percent, though, of voters polled say that the candidates must share their views on abortion. That's saying that they could agree with Biden on the issue but still not vote for him. And the top issue amongst voters in terms of top issues, abortion is at 5 percent in terms of voters who are saying it's their top issue.

You see that and you would do what with strategy regarding reproductive rights right now?

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I would make it front and center. It doesn't mean at the expense of all the other issues, Kate, but hearing this discussion just now between John and Harry, I just got deja vu from 2022 all over again. And I guarantee you that there is something that is absolutely not showing up in this polling that also did not show up in the polling for 2022, which is what allowed so many people to talk about this massive red wave that never appeared.

And frankly, abortion being on the front pages is something that is going to help Democrats because it's something that Republicans have not learned their lesson on. Clearly, women believe that they should have bodily autonomy. Women believe that they do not want their daughters to grow up in a country where their daughters will have less rights than they do. Women believe that women should not be treated as second-class citizens with all of these extremist bans, including the one that's going into effect today in Florida, which should practically be a full, all out banned because, as you know, a lot of women don't even know they're pregnant by six weeks.

So, the majority of American women, and the men who love them, believe that Republicans are going for the rights of women and women are going to go for Republicans in the fall.

BOLDUAN: One thing is worth repeating, I have said it before, and it is - it is not a talking point when you say most women do not know they are pregnant. I did not - with one of my daughters, I did not know I was pregnant until I was seven weeks.

CARDONA: Exactly.

BOLDUAN: And it was like - it was -- it was - it was a total surprise.

CARDONA: Yes. Right.

BOLDUAN: Let's - OK, David, bring - let's focus in on Florida on this issue. You - the vice president is headed there today trying - definitely trying to draw a direct line between Florida's ban and Donald Trump. You have this six-week ban going into place. You have everything that Maria just said. And you also have - I want to play for you, we heard from an abortion provider, a doctor in Florida, who spoke with John last hour. Let me play this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. CHELSEA DANIELS, FLORIDA ABORTION PROVIDER: The ban goes into effect today, but in Florida there is a 24 hour waiting period, which means that you have to have two physician visits, at least 24 hours apart, in order to obtain an abortion.

So, for example, that means that if yesterday, on Tuesday, April 30th, I saw patients who were exactly six weeks and zero days of pregnancy yesterday, because of the 24 hour waiting period, we cannot provide them an abortion today because they are six weeks one day today. And so we are already seeing just the absolute distress and anguish that this is causing people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[08:45:05]

BOLDUAN: That's reality, right? How worried are you about what this means for Republican candidates, including Donald Trump?

DAVID URBAN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, look, it's obviously a tragedy for people who have to face these issues in real life. But as Harry pointed out, and the numbers, if you look down the list, abortion is - and I know Maria doesn't take, you know, she - she has a different opinion on this, but abortion was way down there, way at the bottom. And even people who thought it was an issue, only 23 percent said they'd vote, you know, that was the sole issue they'd be voting on. The economy and the border were much, much higher. Much, much higher. So, it's the only issue - really the only issue that the Biden-Harris administration has to run on. And so it's not a surprise that that's - they're going to be out beating the drum on it because it's the only drum they have to beat.

They're trying to say, look at the shiny spoon over here. Don't pay attention to the economy. Don't pay attention to the border crisis. Don't pay attention to crime. Don't pay attention to all the other things that are facing your life. We want you to pay attention to this abortion issue. And they're going to shout it loudly and repeat it often because it's the only thing they have.

BOLDUAN: Maria, today -

CARDONA: So -

BOLDUAN: Go ahead, Maria. Go ahead.

CARDONA: Yes. I was going to say, so here's the problem with what David is saying. What - when you treat abortion as this sort of -

URBAN: It's true.

CARDONA: When you treat abortion as this kind of side issue that is not that important, that is incredibly insulting to women who feel like Republicans are taking away their rights and freedoms. And they feel that way because Republicans are taking away their rights and freedoms.

And so, again, I have spoken to so many Republican women, David, who say, you know what, Maria -

URBAN: Yes.

CARDONA: The economy, yes, I'm worried about the economy. But, guess what, I can hold two issues in my head that are important. The economy is coming back. The economy will continue to come back.

URBAN: Yes.

CARDONA: My rights will not come back if Donald Trump and Republicans take them away. Republican women.

URBAN: Hey, but, Maria -

CARDONA: Not democrats, not progressives, Republican women who have told me, I'm going to vote for the Democrat. I'm going to vote for Joe Biden. I'm not even going to tell my husband about it because I believe in a country where me, my daughter, my granddaughter, my nieces should not have less rights than what I had growing up.

URBAN: Yes, Maria, I'm not trying to insult anybody, I'm just reflecting the numbers that Harry put up on the board. I'm just - I'm talking about facts.

CARDONA: Well, you know what, sometimes numbers are wrong.

URBAN: These are just the facts. Well, these are just the facts. I'm not trying to insult anybody. I'm just giving a recitation of the facts that were just presented to us. I'm just dealing in reality.

CARDONA: OK.

URBAN: I'm not trying to, you know, attack anybody or minimize anything. I'm just trying to, you know, Harry put up the facts, and I'm discussing the facts that Harry presented to us.

BOLDUAN: The political reality that is facing - that the -

CARDONA: Well, I hope that you - right.

BOLDUAN: The political reality that we're talking about right here, also colliding very much so with the reality that is hitting - hitting people, families, women in Florida.

CARDONA: Exactly.

BOLDUAN: And we're talking Arizona and other states today showing very clearly that this is - this political issue is one that will continue throughout the next six months. And we'll continue to see what happens and we'll have you guys on.

Thank you both.

John.

CARDONA: Thank you.

BERMAN: All right, the criminal case against Donald Trump. What is the one thing the prosecution has left to do to make its case in front of the jury?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:53:30]

BERMAN: Donald Trump on the campaign trail today, back in court tomorrow, charged with falsifying documents to cover up hush money payments to an adult film actress. So the judge in the case found Trump in criminal contempt for violating the gag order in the case with a $9,000 fine, and he warned that Trump could face jail time if he does it again. And there will be a hearing on even more alleged violations tomorrow.

With us now, CNN's senior legal analyst, former federal and state prosecutor, Elie Honig, the bureau chief of our Metuchen bureau.

Elie, I want to start with where we are in the case and some of the exchanges we saw yesterday between the prosecution and Keith Davidson, who was the lawyer who represented Karen McDougal and Stormy Daniels and negotiated their hush money payments. This is the prosecutor, Steinglass, "did you ever believe Michael Cohen was going to be the ultimate source of the funds?" We have a graphic for this. Davidson responds, "never, never prior to funding, no." Steinglass, the prosecutor, says, "even after he said, I'll just do it myself, where did you understand the money would be coming from?" The defense objects. "Objection." The judge overruled. Davidson, the witness, says, "from Donald Trump or some corporate affiliation thereof." If you read along, it makes a lot more sense.

Elie, my question to you is, what is it that the prosecution has accomplished so far and what do they have left to do?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: So, John, that's actually a perfect excerpt to illustrate this point, which is, the prosecution has done a very good job thus far of laying the foundation, of explaining to the jury who is who, what the lines of communication were, what the transactions were.

[08:55:09]

But the challenge, and I think this excerpt really nicely illustrates this, is tying it all back to Donald Trump himself because the jury's heard a lot about negotiations between, for example, on the "National Enquirer" side, David Pecker and Dylan Howard. On the Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal side, you have Mr. Davidson, who you just read the excerpt from. And in the middle of it all you have Michael Cohen.

But what they need, the prosecutors need to do is drive home that Donald Trump knew about all this stuff. Donald Trump knew about these details. And so it's fine for Keith Davidson in the excerpt you just read to say, my understanding was this was all going back to Donald Trump. It's another thing to actually prove it. And the way they're going to have to prove that primarily is through Michael Cohen.

BERMAN: And, look, we have one more exchange and I think illustrates the same point you're making. This is Steinglass, the prosecutor, saying, "did you know when you were dealing with Michael Cohen that you were dealing with Donald Trump." Keith Davidson says, "yes. I never thought otherwise."

So, you have, as you point out, Keith Davidson saying this was his understanding. How will the prosecution prove more than that? Will it just be Michael Cohen who says it? And how much does he have to say?

HONIG: So, I think the prosecution is hoping to do this in two ways. Of course they're going to rely on Michael Cohen. And a key question for Michael Cohen is not going to be just, did Donald Trump know you were negotiating with Stormy Daniels. I think that's clearly got to be a yes. But how much of the details did he know? Because the details is where the crime sits. The structuring and the financing behind the payment. Thats the actual crime here, which is falsifications of business records.

Which leads me to the second way prosecutors are going to want to prove this. They don't want to just have Michael Cohen's word. They want to back him up. And so if they have ledgers, invoices, notes, emails, memos, texts, and we've started to see a few of them in the trial thus far that backup Michael Cohen, that's gold for prosecutors. They're going to want to say, folks, you don't need to just rely on Michael Cohen's word. You can rely on Michael Cohen's word as backed up by the documents. BERMAN: To what extent are you expecting some kind of, you know, you're damn right I did order the code red moment here. And, obviously, Donald Trump won't be on the stand. But will there be a document that needs to definitively show that Donald Trump knew?

HONIG: I don't think there needs to be or will be a document where Donald Trump says, for example, OK, Michael, go ahead and finance the payment to Stormy Daniels so we make it look like attorney's fees. I mean maybe if Donald Trump was an email or a texter, but perhaps to his benefit he's not. And this is a good sort of lesson in real life trials, John. It's not like TV. It's not like "A Few Good Men." A lot of times prosecutors build cases in ways that are methodical. And I think the prosecutors here are doing that, not without any flaws, but you build methodically and you don't have a code red moment, but you can still prove your case if the evidence adds up.

BERMAN: We love the code red moments from TV.

Hang on one second, Elie.

New York City Mayor Eric Adams is speaking about the situation at Columbia. Let's listen.

MAYOR ERIC ADAMS (D), NEW YORK: That the - we should have been a peaceful protest. It has basically been co-opted by professional outside agitators. We were extremely cautious about releasing our intel information because our goal was to insure the safety of our students, faculty, and without any destruction of property. And we are here today to update New Yorkers about the ongoing situation at Columbia University (INAUDIBLE) students, our staff and the public. And we were well aware, based on a series of observations, that what should have been a peaceful protests, that is part of the constitutional rights of Americans, has clearly been co-opted.

A right which this administration supports and defends to voice your concern. But we also will continue, and we have sounded the alarm numerous times before, about external actors who are tempted to hijack this protest.

[08:59:43]

Tonight, we're here to show you some example of these external actors who have no - no affiliation with Columbia University, as well as some of our other educational facilities.