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Nir Hoftman is Interviewed about the Protests at UCLA; Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA) is interviewed about College Protests, Israel- Hamas War, and Abortion; Marc Lotter and Chris Kofinis are Interviewed about College Protests. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired May 02, 2024 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: The fear that may be welling up there.

Have you heard from, you know, Jewish students on campus and how they are sort of dealing with this? I know we are in that sort of week or two of finals, and then there is going to be commencement. But give me some sense of what you're hearing from those students.

NIR HOFTMAN, CLINICAL PROFESSOR, UCLA: The Jewish students are horrified. It's - it's just a disgusting atmosphere where, you know, anybody can be stopped by thugs and asked if they're are Zionist, told that they're not allowed to enter the library, told that they're not allowed to enter a class, you know, being pushed around. I've seen videos of Jews being assaulted. It's a terrible atmosphere.

But, you know, this goes beyond just Jewish students. I'm sure the Palestinian students and other students are also horrified by what's happening. When you have no rule of law, when anarchy reigns, than everybody loses except the anarchists. And what happened there was, due to political decisions, it was basically decided not to send police up there when this was beginning, and it just got worse and worse. It was a snowball. And by the time they intervened, it was a disaster. And they should have done it earlier.

SIDNER: Nir Hoftman, I'm sorry to hear that you were attacked. Thank you so much for letting me talk with you throughout this. I know this has been a really stressful time for everybody on campus at this point. I appreciate your time this morning.

We will be back with more coverage of what is going on there, on the UCLA campus.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:35:57]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: We are following the breaking news out of California happening in the early hours still happening right now. Police moving in to dismantle the protest encampment at UCLA's campus. Pro-Palestinian protesters have been set up there in this encampment for about a week now. Arrests have been made. We're seeing this in live pictures now this morning after protesters were warned early - early this morning by the school to leave or face arrest.

This is the same encampment where a violent clash with a group of counter protesters happened yesterday.

Joining us right now is Democratic Senator Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts. Of course, she is also a Biden-Harris campaign national advisory board member and also spent a large part of her career as a college professor on these college campuses.

Senator, thank you for coming in.

I mean, some of the various schools you have taught at and been affiliated with during your academic career, Harvard, UT-Austin among them, and there are many schools in Massachusetts are seeing these very same pro-Palestinian protests.

What do you think of these campus protests? And the police being called in by school administrations just to make them disperse?

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA): It is foundational to our democracy that people have an opportunity to raise their voices, to protest, to be heard by their elected officials, and to be heard by everyone else in the country. That's guaranteed in the Constitution.

It is also foundational that it has to be peaceful and that it's not about bullying or attacking other people or interfering with other people's ability to go to class, to do the things they need to do.

My concern is to keep the focus on what's happening in the Middle East. There are things that our government needs to be pushing for right now. We need a ceasefire. No more dropping bombs in Gaza.

We also need return of those hostages. Remember that we are now nearly seven months into people who have been held in captivity. They need to be released and released to their families.

We need a massive humanitarian relief flooding in to save little babies, people who are on the brink of starvation.

And then most of all our government is in a position right now where we -- we should be giving a huge push to both sides to come to the negotiating table and to work out a peaceful two-state solution where two peoples can live side-by-side with self-determination, with dignity and with an assurance of a long-term peaceful solution.

I -- that's where I want to keep the focus right now.

BOLDUAN: And on that, Senator, you mentioned the conditions, the horrible conditions that people are suffering from in Gaza. Among the protests we're seeing on these campuses, we're hearing protesters accusing Israel of genocide, and I noticed -- I had seen that at an event last month, you had -- you had said that you thought the actions in Gaza legally could constitute genocide in the eyes of the International Court of Justice.

And you'd said that if you want to do it, if you want to do it as an application of law, I believe that they'll find that it is genocide and they have ample evidence to do so.

According to "Politico", your office clarified after that, you were commenting on the ongoing legal process at the ICJ, not sharing your views on whether genocide is occurring in Gaza.

Senator, do you view Israel's actions in Gaza as committing genocide?

WARREN: Look, there is a legal process for this. The point I underscored then and I will underscore now, is that what Benjamin Netanyahu is doing in Gaza is wrong, and that he has created a humanitarian disaster, dropping 2,000-pound dumb bombs in densely populated areas is way to get a whole lot of civilians killed.

And blocking off humanitarian relief so that people can't get access to food, to water, to medical care, that is a problem for Gaza, and it creates a disaster that has put literally hundreds of thousands of people on the brink of starvation.

[08:40:13]

It is important that we get that humanitarian relief in, that we stopped the bombing, that we get those hostages back. And the United States has a role to play in pushing both parties in the region to come to the table and negotiate a peaceful solution. That's the way that the suffering will stop, not just in the short run, but how we build a bridge to a long-term peaceful solution.

And I want to add here, it's not just the United States. Other countries in the region want to support a long-term solution, but that's a two-state solution where two parties can live side-by-side with self-respect, with security, and with self-determination.

BOLDUAN: Senator, you've also been a leading voice and you've been on the program talking, speaking out, and taking on Donald Trump directly, especially on the issue of abortion rights.

The Biden campaign has just put out a new ad this morning and its going to be running in battleground states. And it really seems a direct response to what Donald Trump was saying in that "Time Magazine" interview and has just been saying even more about abortion.

Yesterday in Wisconsin, he spoke to the "Milwaukee Journal Sentinel", and he said, basically, the states decide on abortion and people are absolutely thrilled with the way that's going on. Every state is different, that he said at a campaign event.

He's refused to say he would commit to vetoing a federal abortion ban. He deflected on that question. He says Congress won't pass it, so it's not his problem.

Do you agree that a federal abortion ban would not make it through Congress?

WARREN: Look, let's be clear. There's the question of making it through Congress and he has an extremist party that still embraces, for example, fetal personhood. That is now the majority opinion in the House of Representatives.

And what that means is not only zero access to abortion nationwide. It also means, for example, no access to IVF.

So, let's take a look at where that Congress is right now, but also keep in mind that groups like the Heritage Foundation that support Donald Trump are trying to map out ways that they believe that if Donald Trump is in the White House, whether he has Congress with him or not, that he can put a nationwide abortion ban in place.

For example, they're promoting the idea that they could use the Comstock Act, an old act that's already a part of federal law that he could use that now, in order to ban abortion nationwide. You know, there is no sharper contrast between the two people who are running for president than there is on abortion.

Donald Trump has said over and over that, well, he wants to try to keep a lot of votes, but he goes out and brags to his people about how he's the one responsible for overturning Roe versus Wade.

All of this can be laid at his feet. He is the one who is responsible for young rape victims who cannot get access to abortion, women who are in the middle of a miscarriage who are told that they have to wait until they're in sepsis to get access to abortion.

By contrast, Joe Biden is using every tool available to him in the tool box right now to protect access to abortion, it's very limited post-Roe versus Wade, but he's doing that and he has promised, give him the chance and we can make Roe versus Wade law of the land again.

BOLDUAN: Senator, let me play this new ad that's just released. Let me play a portion of it because it gets to exactly what you're saying.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, BIDEN FOR PRESIDENT)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Two years ago, I became pregnant with a baby I desperately wanted, and I learned that the fetus would have fatal condition and never survive. Because of the new laws in Texas, I had to flee my own state to receive treatment.

If Donald Trump is elected, that is the end of a woman's right to choose. There will be no place to turn.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: And, Senator, here's the thing in the polling that -- call it a head-scratcher, I don't know what to call it. Polls show very consistently that two-thirds of Americans disagree with the Dobbs decision that we're talking about, but there is not consensus on what to do about it.

Some want right -- abortion rights and enshrine it nationwide, some almost an equal portion-ish want it to be left to the states. And there's also a much smaller portion of one access restricted nationwide. And when you see those numbers, I start wondering, do you see that Donald Trump is politically in terms of the coalition of voters he needs to get to win.

[08:45:07]

That he's maybe successfully threading a needle here?

WARREN: Oh, I don't think so. I don't think so at all.

The position of Donald Trump and the extremists I think is just way out of the mainstream. And, look, I'm -- I'm not a polling expert. I don't pretend to be. But what I know is that right now, one in every three women of reproductive age live under an abortion ban.

And what's going to happen between now and the election in November is we're going to hear one more story and one more story and one more story about women who have been denied access to the care they need. People who are rape victims who can't get help that they need, women who are caught in the middle of a medical condition, or they have a fetus that cannot survive. People who are going through heartbreaking circumstances.

And we are going to be reminded over and over that decisions that should be between a patient and that patient's doctor and nobody else that Donald Trump and extremist Republicans want the politicians to decide.

And remember, there's another piece of what's come out recently. Donald Trump has said that he's actually okay with monitoring pregnant women to make sure that they don't engage in any activities that might end up in an abortion or seek abortion help in any way.

You know, this is -- talk about fundamental freedoms here, things that people for a long time thought were protected for women have been wiped out and it all can be laid at the feet of exactly one person and that is Donald Trump. When he got that extremist Supreme Court in place and they overturned Roe versus Wade, we're just watching wave, on wave, on wave on the water of what that means for people all across this country.

It is an extremist position that Donald Trump has taken. Joe Biden has said, give me the chance, and I'm going to put Roe versus Wade back in as law of the land. That's what this election in 2024 is going to be about.

BOLDUAN: Definitely a center --

(CROSSTALK)

WARREN: Which side are you on? The side of where government makes the decision or the side where people make their own decisions.

BOLDUAN: Apologies to jump in. Definitely -- absolutely becoming a centerpiece of this general election.

Senator Elizabeth Warren, thank you very much for coming on.

WARREN: You bet.

BOLDUAN: And as we're seeing right there, we're continuing to monitor these live pictures. This is UCLA's campus. And you can see, the sun is about to come up. And we will have a new view of what happened this morning as police, law enforcement moved into arrest protesters on campus and dismantle the encampment that has been there for a week now. We have - we'll take you live back to LA after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:52:27]

BOLDUAN: All right, you are - we're going to show you live pictures out of Los Angeles as we continue to cover the breaking news. Police making arrests on UCLA's campus as they've began dismantling the protest encampment that's been there for a week now. This is one of so many campuses we've been tracking that have also seeing pro- Palestinian protests engulfing campus life and shutting down operations in some cases.

This is bringing new pressure on all of Washington and all politicians and - including President Biden, in how they're going - how to respond to this protest movement and the issues they're getting at.

This morning, Donald Trump is posting on social media about this, asking, where is President Biden and where is Gavin Newsom?

Joining us right now is former Trump 2020 director of strategic communications, Marc Lotter, and Democratic strategists and former chief of staff to Senator Joe Manchin, Chris Kofinis.

Guys, thank you so much for being here.

Marc, Donald Trump is not only posting about it this morning, he's talking - he's trying to use this whole thing against Joe Biden on the campaign trail.

Let me play this for you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The radical extremists and far-left agitators, they're terrorizing college campuses, as you possibly noticed. And Biden's nowhere to be found. He hasn't said anything. But they're his political base.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: It's not surprising, I would say, that Donald Trump is take - is putting this at joe Biden, when you see all of this playing out on college campuses. But if poll after poll after poll we have seen that amongst young voters and voters writ large, this issue, what's happening, Israel's war against Hamas in Gaza and Biden's response and handling of it, is not a top issue. Is he making a mistake by making this such a big issue from the trail?

MARC LOTTER, FORMER TRUMP 2020 DIRECTOR OF STRATEGIC COMMUNICATION, FORMER SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO DONALD TRUMP AND PRESS SECRETARY TO MIKE PENCE: Well, I think this may -- this is an easy opportunity where you have folks who are maybe middle of the road, you know, possibly undecided folks look and see what's going on, on these college campuses, and it just leaves them shaking their heads. I saw a poll yesterday that came out that said 70 percent of Americans supported arresting these protesters. Two-third supported sending the National Guard in if state and local and university officials won't deal with these threats to Jewish students and just to - just good order on these campuses.

BOLDUAN: It's not specifically this. It gets to the bigger issue of - of crime, if you will, that Donald Trump has been hitting and so on.

LOTTER: Well, exactly. And I think it does resonate with folks who are - across America, when they see what's happening in our cities, in many big cities, and they just shake their heads.

[08:55:02]

You see these protests happening and then they go on for weeks and weeks and weeks. As a - as soon as it crosses over from that First Amendment to where we're threatening Jewish students, to where we're actually shutting down operations, I think that's where the line was crossed. And the president, Biden, should have taken a stronger stance, come out more forceful on it, and even threaten to use the National Guard if local and state officials wouldn't step in and do it.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Chris, if I can, I want to shift gears now to another moment of unrest and other crime that were committed because Donald Trump, in the interview with "Time" magazine the other day, referred to people who rioted at the Capitol, the insurrectionists, as J 6th patriots. And then last night, in an interview with "The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel," was asked if he would accept the election results in 2024. And he said, "if everything's honest, I'll gladly accept the results. I don't change on that." But then he also said, "if it's not, you have to fight for the right of the country." You have to fight, he says, if he doesn't think the election results are honest. And we know that his bar for honesty doesn't comport with reality since he didn't think the 2020 results were honest.

So, how seriously should voters take statements like this, Chris?

CHRIS KOFINIS, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF FOR SEN. JOE MANCHIN AND DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, I mean, you know, it's this - not just Trump rhetoric. And the one thing, if - even if you look at what's happening across the college campuses and Trump's rhetoric yesterday, it is kind of ironic and rich that he's talking about a forceful response to those college campus protests, but completely ignores, you know, his role and responsibility of the January 6th protests.

Here's - if you step back and put this - the politics aside for a second, you know, voters are sick and tired - and I've seen this in all the research we've done over the last year, are sick and tired of this division, dysfunction, chaos, unrest across the board. And so I'm not surprised, nor should anyone be, that, you know, Trump's going to essentially talk out of both sides of his mouth. He's going to talk about a forceful response and then ignore it in other circumstances.

The other part, I think, for Democrats, and I think this is the part that's key, you know, the president has kind of missed, I think, a key opportunity here, right, to go out there and talk about, you know, these college campus protests, to talk about them and I think in a fair, reasonable way, to paint a contrast between what a Donald Trump presidency would do and what he is doing.

The idea that you're not going out there at this moment talking about this, I'm talking about the president right now, makes no strategic, political sense at all. And I think it provides a vacuum that Trump is happy to fill with whatever rhetoric he's going to come up with that day.

BERMAN: You're talking about Biden and the unrest at colleges, specifically, Chris, right?

KOFINIS: Yes, I mean, absolutely. I mean the reality is when you look at what's happening, I mean, voters, you know, especially as you look at the election, right? There's -- the election is going to be decided by kind of two dynamics, mobilizing your base and those middle, undecided voters. Those middle undecided voters have a lot of questions and concerns about both candidates, right? They abhor, you know, if you will, kind of chaos. This creates, right or wrong, the image of chaos. And in those circumstances the president, President Biden, right, has to go out there and make it clear what his position is and what he believes is right and wrong in these circumstances. Not doing that, right, creates an opportunity for Trump to say, oh, I'm the adult, which is insane but that's the problem when you create a vacuum. I do not understand it at all.

BOLDUAN: I want to - but - I want to go - double down on - and go back to what - the quote that John was reading, Marc, about political violence related to the coming election in 2024. Trump, to "The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel," "if everything's honest, I'll gladly accept the results. I don't change on that. If it's not, you have to fight for the right of the country." Also, to "Time" magazine, that we've - that we've been talking about this week, "I think we're going to win. If we don't win, you know, it depends. It always depends on the fairness of the election."

People who are familiar with Donald Trump often say, this is his rhetoric. After January 6th, is there any way that it can only be that? I mean, from a coms perspective, do you want your candidate out saying this?

LOTTER: Well, I think what we have to understand is, we're asking - we're asking a political candidate. Regardless of whether it's Donald Trump or Democrat/Republican, are you just going to accept at face value the results. When we've seen in state, local elections, go back to the 2000 election, if we would have asked Al Gore in April of 2000, will you accept the election results, not challenge, not go to court, not - not take your legal rights to have questions asked about the counting and the ballots, no one would have expected that and then Al Gore did that. So -

BOLDUAN: I get that. But I get that. But Donald Trump is in a category of his own when it comes to this commentary after January 6th, after the 2020 election, which he still does not accept the results, even though it was a fair election.

[09:00:05]

After that, how can this - this is in a category of its own.