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Trump Back in Court; Flooding in Texas; Testimony Resumes in Hugh Money Trial. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired May 03, 2024 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: That those administrators deserve time to try to result - have peaceful resolutions, like we've seen in some instances.

I think what changed is what was happening at UCLA, my alma mater, that was heartbreaking, and the violence. So - and that's when it, you know, was clear. And certainly with Columbia.

I think in the speech next week what the president needs to do is, this is the perfect opportunity to remind us what this is all about. I think you can, you know, use this as a teaching moment. What's happening in the conflict? What is he doing actually to try to resolve the conflict and to bring hostages home? What is he also doing to try to have peace in the Middle East, to have a two-state solution, but also to remind us, the Holocaust is a remembrance of what happens when hate and violence go too -- far too far, and that that is a broader goal of the United States and, frankly, you know, the human condition that we can never let that happen again. And that's, you know, as he said, racism is not an American value. It's un-American.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Matt, a final thought from you because those are moments that any president, you - it's a very presidential moment.

MATT MOWERS, PRESIDENT, VALCOUR GLOBAL PUBLIC STRATEGY: Sure.

BOLDUAN: And maybe at that same time Donald Trump may be in a courtroom in New York.

MOWERS: Well, these are presidential moments, but so are the actions you take leading up to those moments.

And that's been the challenge for President Biden. He's been all over the map on this. Whether it was his ambassador to the U.N., Linda Thomas-Greenfield, abstaining on a resolution instead of opposing it, which called for a ceasefire with no conditions for hostage releases, whether it's the comments he's made about Bibi Netanyahu, the leaks coming out of the State Department and the National Security Council.

The problem is, that's been going on for months. He's now trying to clean it up because politically it's looking bad for him and Americans are saying enough is enough. So, he has a moment on Tuesday, but he's going to - it's going to be difficult to erase what he's been doing and what his administration's been doing for the last several months.

BOLDUAN: Yes, and it's that, you know, policy, politics, it's all blending together, especially in this election year.

Thank you both very much.

A new hour of CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts now.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Right now (ph), former President Donald Trump entering the courtroom for his hush money trial. The focus today, secret recordings involving his former fixer and attorney Michael Cohen.

Also, cracking down on college campus protests. Police moving in to clear an encampment this morning on the campus of NYU. But those student-led demonstrations in the United States are inspiring pro- Palestinian protests around the world.

And 7 million people right now under severe weather threats in the south, including Texas, after tornadoes and life-threatening flooding has already slammed the lone star state yesterday.

I'm Sara Sidner, with John Berman and Kate Bolduan. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, any minute now Donald Trump will be back in court. These are live pictures behind us. This is the criminal case he faces here in New York.

Now, the jury has had a night to digest a key piece of evidence. Donald Trump, in an audio recording, talking about hush money payments with Michael Cohen. You can here Trump say in this recording, pay with cash.

Now, this is about a payment to 1998 Playboy Playmate of the Year Karen McDougal. Cohen also recorded a discussion with Keith Davidson, who represented Stormy Daniels in 2016.

With us now, CNN's Brynn Gingras and Alayna Treene.

Brynn, I want to start with you.

Where do we begin this morning? What do you think the jury will see and here today?

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, John, I love how you said digest because there was a lot thrown at jurors yesterday and I suspect when court resumes in just about a half an hour we're going to hear some more of those recordings. Again, those were done by Michael Cohen sometimes in secret and many of them were played for jurors, not only on the prosecution's side, but the defense was also playing some for their benefit as well.

But let's start with the one that you just mentioned there. The one between Michael Cohen and Donald Trump. Remember, prosecutors are trying to explain to jurors how Trump knew about these payments that were being made to these woman on his behalf. So, here is one of those examples.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL COHEN: I need to open up a company for the transfer of all of that info regarding our friend David. And I spoke to Allen about it when it comes time for the financing, which will be -

DONALD TRUMP: (INAUDIBLE). What financing?

COHEN: We'll have to pay (INAUDIBLE) -

TRUMP: So pay with cash.

COHEN: No, no, no, no, no.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GINGRAS: Now, that is the first time jurors actually heard Trump's voice on a recording. And as you said, John, that had to do with the Karen McDougal payment. But there was also a recording that was played between Cohen and Keith Davidson, an attorney for Karen McDougal and Stormy Daniels, were essentially Cohen said that Trump hated the fact that they had to do it in regards to the Daniels non-disclosure agreements.

[09:05:10]

So, that was played for the - by the prosecution for the jurors. On the defense side, they were also playing recordings of Michael Cohen. In one instance he is said to use the word leverage, trying to say that the Daniels deal had to be done before Trump - before the election because then they would, quote, lose their leverage and some ways.

So, again, both sides playing those recordings to their benefit. We'll see who sort of is believed by these jurors.

Now, when court resumes in just about a half an hour, we are going to hear more from a forensic analysts that works in the DA's office that extracted some of these recordings from Michael Cohen's phone. Cross- examination was happening when court left off yesterday. And that will pick back up again when court resumes in just about a half an hour today, John.

BERMAN: And we'll be watching very closely.

In the meantime, Alayna Treene, Donald Trump said something yesterday leaving court, which was, either a lie or betrayed extreme confusion that he has about the American legal system. He said, he can't testify because of the gag order. Have you had any explanation from the Trump team into what got into his head?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: Yes, that's just not accurate, John, as you pointed out. The gag order does not say he cannot testify. And also, remember, Donald Trump, just last week, was saying, I want to testify, and he knew he had a gag order then. And so I think what's going on here is more of, it's a good messaging tactic for Donald Trump. We've clearly seen him use the gag order to energize his supporters, rally his base and attack the judge in this case overall for what he's saying is violating his First Amendment right.

Of course, the gag order is actually pretty limited when you talk to legal experts, when I've spoken with lawyers, they say, look, he's actually allowed to talk about a lot. He can go after the judge, which he's been doing. He did that on Wednesday when he was traveling to Michigan and Wisconsin. He can go after DA Alvin Bragg. He can talk about the case more generally. He just cannot talk about witnesses and jurors.

And I'm told, I know from Donald Trump's point of view, the thing that's really upsetting him about the gag order is that he can't attack people like Michael Cohen. And that's really where a lot of this comes down to as well.

Now, I do also just want to give you a preview of what Donald Trump is going to be doing when he leaves the courtroom today and where he's going this weekend. He's going to be trading the courtroom in New York for banquet halls in south Florida. He's going to be headlining and be the main attraction at the RNC's retreat in Florida this weekend, in Palm Beach.

And I think very notable there's going to be a lot of potential vice presidential contenders who are attending as well. People like Senator J.D. Vance of Ohio, Elise Stefanik, the House conference chair, the House Republican conference chair, I should say, Byron Donalds, a lot of these people who - Doug Burgum, North Dakota governor, a lot of these people who Donald Trump has been saying privately that he might want to choose for his potential vice presidential pick. Of course, he doesn't have any plans to announce that until later this year, closer to summer I'm told.

But there's going to be a lot of interesting people in the room. I think we'll be getting a lot of reporting out of it. And Donald Trump, I think, very much wants to be surrounded by his supporters, the people who will be boosting him, boosting his ego. We know that he has really been unhappy attending this trial. I think the novelty of it wore off for him very early on. And so he'll be getting some of that praise and be surrounded by his supporters this weekend in Florida.

John.

BERMAN: It's very cold, very cold, he complains every day inside - inside that courtroom.

Alayna Treene, thank you very much.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: The one similarity between that courthouse and this studio, it is very cold.

BERMAN: You turn the heat up. It's like tropical in here.

BOLDUAN: You know what, when you have to have a gun show every day, you need to have it a little warmer, OK?

I think we should move on to actual news. Do you want to say anything else?

BERMAN: Go ahead.

BOLDUAN: Exactly. Boom.

All right, coming up for us, historic flooding is hitting Texas. Mandatory evacuations are underway. And another round of storms are expected today. We will take you there as they're going through it.

Plus, a fresh look at the U.S. jobs market. The economy adding fewer jobs than expected in this new data. Why that's being seen as good news right now.

And we have live pictures, back at it, back in that courtroom inside in New York City. Donald Trump just arrived as the seventh day of testimony in his trial begins soon.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:14:00]

SIDNER: We are following the latest weather developments out of Texas this morning where rivers are rising to levels not seen since Hurricane Harvey, and the destruction you saw that had in Houston in some areas. This follows several days of heavy rainfall, large hail, even a tornado. Mandatory evacuation underway for parts of the state as 7 million people are under alert right now for historic flooding as far east as Louisiana. All of that and more on the way.

CNN's Rosa Flores is live in New Caney, Texas, part of the mandatory evacuation zone.

I see that it is still raining out there and that you are surrounded by a heck of a lot of water. What can you tell us?

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Sara, this is the mandatory evacuation zone. Now, I'm standing on a street that's closed because the water has been rising so quickly. In fact, we've had to move our vehicle back multiple times because of it.

But I want you to look behind me because this really gives you a sense of how quickly the water levels are rising. There are two streets right behind me here that go into the neighborhood that's to my right.

[09:15:04]

Now, if we zoom into those stop signs, you'll be able to see where the water levels are. This first stop sign, it's about a third up to the stop sign. But the one beyond that, the street beyond that, it's about halfway. Now, it's difficult to see from where we are, but there is water gushing just beyond that stop sign because that's the east fork of the San Jacinto River. That's where this volume of water is coming through that is impacting this neighborhood. Now, the neighborhood here to my left, this is a residential

neighborhood. People live here. This is the area where the top executive of Harris County told all of these people, all the residents, that they had to evacuate yesterday, before night fell, because of the dangerous conditions, because this water was going to be rising very quickly.

Now, this is a multi-county event. I'm practically in Montgomery County. The northeast part of Harris County is just here to my left. And so this is an effort that involves multiple counties, authorities from multiple counties, letting people know that they had to evacuate because not only is the water rising very quickly because of these river levels, we're also expecting a lot of rain today here in this area.

Now, one of the huge concerns, of course, is vehicles, people that are trying to drive through these rising waters. We saw it a lot earlier. I know we have video from not just this county but other counties showing how some people are trying to drive through these rising waters, which makes it very difficult. And then, of course, then forces first responders to go then and rescue them.

Now, about the significance and some of the context that the water that you see behind me and why authorities are warning residents. Just to give you a sense, during Hurricane Harvey, the San Jacinto River, this area, the east fork part of the San Jacinto River, rose to about 81 feet above sea level. Right now it's expected to peak at about 78 feet above sea level. That's why authorities are saying, you've got to pay attention to this. You've got to evacuate if there's a mandatory evacuation.

There are areas that are not under a mandatory evacuation that are just here to my left, but authorities warned those individuals that if they were not going to evacuate, they had to have food for at least two to three days, Sara, because this - some of these areas are going to turn into islands. People are not going to be able to exit.

And again, the thing that we have to keep in mind here is that the rain is not stopping. And we're expecting rain through today and through the weekend.

Sara.

SIDNER: Rosa Flores, thank you so much.

We are looking at live - or pictures taken from a drone at Livingston, Texas, where you see there are some - some buildings underwater, including businesses and homes already at this hour with more rain on the way. We appreciate your time. Rosa, be safe out there.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: And we're keeping an eye on these live pictures, this camera inside the courthouse in lower Manhattan, where Donald Trump is about start a new day on trial.

Stay with us. This is CNN's special live coverage.

And we are also just minutes away from the opening bell on Wall Street, where we will see how the new jobs report is landing with investors. The April jobs report just out coming in below expectations with 175,000 jobs added last month. The unemployment rate ticking up slightly to 3.9 percent. You'll recall that Wednesday the Reserve, Federal Reserve, left interest rates unchanged again and the Fed chairman saying the employment rate was one thing that could drive a shift from the Fed in the future. Investors so far, clearly, they're happy with the news from this morning. Stock futures up across the board.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:23:29]

BERMAN: All right, these are live pictures of the New York City courthouse. Donald Trump, the trial begins again just minutes from now. The jury went home, got to digest the audio recordings they heard of Donald Trump on tape speaking to Michael Cohen about hush money payments.

With us now, CNN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney Joey Jackson, and CNN legal analyst and former federal prosecutor Jennifer Rodgers.

What do you think that jury thought about as they drifted off to sleep?

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, listen, they drifted off to sleep later in the day because of the computer person that was there. But let's be clear about that, that's because the defense is not stipulating to things. Not to get into the weeds, but generally in cases, because you want the jury to have the evidence and information, you allow it to go in. You don't need anyone to authenticate the document. Do you keep the document? Is it in the normal course of business? So, that is a bore.

But, John, before the bore there was a lot of good information, right, such as the tape that you mentioned. And I think that's important because it gives the former president knowledge, right? Knowledge is significant.

Now, let's just be very clear, very briefly, the information, in terms of the exchange (INAUDIBLE) Cohen, that was as to Karen McDougal, right, not charged here. We're dealing with, of course, Stormy Daniels. But very important because it goes to show his information, his knowledge, and what he was doing with Michael Cohen proceeding this deal. It would be very unusual that he knew everything about that but he knows nothing about this.

[09:25:01]

And that's the significance of that.

SIDNER: Interesting. I wanted - there were some things where things got very tense between Keith Davidson - and for people that aren't aware, this is the attorney that was really in the middle of these two cases.

Michael Avenatti came later and became the more famous attorney because of the Stormy Daniel case. But he was really instrumental in putting these deals together and was working with Michael Cohen as well.

What did you make of the tense exchanges that came when the defense was cross-examining him, really trying to make him look like this salacious, you know, sort of bottom feeder of an attorney?

JENNIFER RODGERS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, really combative cross- examination there from Emil Bove. I think we probably will see Emil cross Michael Cohen actually because he really has that attack dog instinct. I'm looking for that going forward. But they did a couple things. They establish that Davidson didn't have any direct contact fact with Donald Trump, right?

SIDNER: Right.

RODGERS: So, all of the things that happened, happened through Michael Cohen. That's one point they wanted to make.

But then, you're right, he really tried to dirty him up, saying, oh, he represents all these people. This whole thing is so sleazy. You're kind of extorting people and all that. That kind of cuts both ways. Of course, they want to undercut this witness on the stand who's giving evidence against their client ultimately.

But, you know, you lay down with dogs and you get fleas. Donald Trump is in a conspiracy with all these people to the extent you continue to dirty up and attack every single one of those core conspirators, I think the jury starts to think, huh, the head conspirator also is problematic.

BOLDUAN: With all of those recordings that were played, Michael Moore was on earlier this morning with me and he said that he actually thinks recordings cut both ways. That he thinks it actually was helpful to the defense as well. Do you?

JACKSON: Listen, as attorneys you can make whatever arguments that you think are fair and appropriate to the case. You know, I think, at the end of the day, what it goes to demonstrate again, which is important, is that you have to loop Donald Trump into this case.

The importance of the Davidson testimony, the lawyer for Stormy Daniels, the lawyer for Karen McDougal, is that he was, of course, dealing with the - what did we call him, the fixer for Trump, right?

BOLDUAN: Yes.

JACKSON: And his interactions were as to Cohen. As to Cohen. Everything as to Cohen.

What you need to do is loop in the boss. That's the missing link to demonstrate and show that he was acting at the boss' direction. That's why it's all about, right, as Jen can tell you, it's the puzzle. It's connecting the dots.

And that's why, to the earlier point, the tape is so significant, the audio is so significant, because it brings the boss into the mix. And that's what you need here.

BERMAN: So, they have the tape. It's a Friday. Jen, what do you do today if you're the prosecution? Where do you want to take this case now and with whom potentially?

RODGERS: So, I almost hate to say it because it's another custodian situation, but I think you got to get to the documents that are actually charged here. I want to see these invoices, the ledgers. I want to see the checks that Donald Trump signed. Get the end of the week jury thinking like, OK, we know what this case is about. We have seen the documents and we're starting to actually check off the boxes to prove the elements of this case.

SIDNER: Can I just quickly ask, because you brought up the stipulations. Is a stipulation issue, because I've never seen that happen in any other trial, to delay? To drag this out?

JACKSON: So to be clear, without question, Sara, it delays matters and it's just ridiculous and irrelevant. What are we fighting over a document for that's going to come in anyway as a business record, right? You don't need a live body to go and to give you all the predicate information. Did you keep the document? Was it in the normal course of business to keep the document? Is this what your business does? Generally speaking, we get to the meat and potatoes of what the jury is here for. And it has sometimes an effect. Jurors don't want to be glazed over. They don't want to be falling asleep. They want to know about what the facts are that are in dispute.

BOLDUAN: The Friday issue, I think, is actually really interesting. What is an approach for prosecutors, knowing that they've got days - got more days the normal - than they have - than the jurors have had since this has started to sit and marinate and digest, as Johns mentioned, before they're back in court again?

RODGERS: So, prosecutors want to end on a safe note, right? Like, they don't want to take the risk that something blockbuster happens. Some piece of cross that really starts to get the jurors thinking the defense is scoring points. That's what I think they'll probably end with someone putting these documents into evidence. You can also end on a direct examination if they have enough time to get to the next witness, maybe Hope Hicks or something, then they might end there. They're not going to end on cross-examination. They're be very careful timing wise to make sure that doesn't happen.

BERMAN: Let's talk about Hope Hicks. We've got about a minute left, Joey, 30 seconds left. If you are the prosecution, what do you want from this woman, who was the communications director for Donald Trump in the White House.

JACKSON: Yes, I mean, I - you know, you want to demonstrate and establish that the boss was aware of what was happening. Remember, there were meetings at the actual White House with respect to this transaction, with regard to the reimbursement, with respect to, you know, his knowledge and information. The critical component here is tying Donald Trump into what was happening. And I think the defense was trying to do as masterful job as they could with saying, this was all about Cohen and Davidson.

[09:30:01]

Trump was nowhere to be found. Hope Hicks might change that dynamic.

BERMAN: It will be an interesting Friday to be sure.

SIDNER: Yes, it will.

BERMAN: All right, that is all.