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Biden Speaks In Battleground Wisconsin; Sources: Trump Defense Plans Longer Cross-Examination Of Daniels; Rep. Jared Moskowitz (D- FL), Is Interviewed About Defense Secretary Confirms U.S. Paused Shipment Of Bombs To Israel. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired May 08, 2024 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[13:00:58]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: New developments in the legal cases facing former President Donald Trump. After a day that showed us some shocking testimony in the criminal hush money case, the Trump legal team can savor two wins in other cases unfolding in Georgia and Florida.

Plus, President Biden speaking right now. He is expected to make a big jobs announcement from the battleground state of Wisconsin, an announcement that is a not so subtle dig against his opponent, former President Trump.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: And the U.S. hits pause on a shipment of bombs to Israel as a new report could reveal whether the U.S. believes Israel has broken humanitarian law. And criticism grows over Israel's military actions in Rafah. We're following these major developing stories and many more. It's all coming in right here to CNN News Central.

KEILAR: The 2024 campaign really in full swing today. President Biden is in the battleground state of Wisconsin. He is speaking right now about the economy from this critical state that he won narrowly four years ago. These are live pictures coming to us right now where Biden will highlight a $3 billion Microsoft investment in an AI facility that could create thousands of jobs.

He's also using this appearance to score political points, juxtaposing the announcement with former President Trump's promise to create 13,000 jobs at a Foxconn factory at this very same site back in 2018. It's a promise that really went unfulfilled.

DEAN: But will the new investment and the contrast with the previous president help Biden win over voters who are skeptical of his handling of the economy? CNN chief national affairs correspondent Jeff Zeleny is in Milwaukee. Jeff, you've been talking to voters. What do people want to hear from the president?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Jessica, there's no doubt the importance of Wisconsin to the reelection roadmap for President Biden. It's his fourth visit to Wisconsin just this year. But he is going to be talking about the investment that Microsoft is making in Racine County, just a bit south of me here.

Of course, it is a critical part of his rebuilding, his hopeful victory effort here in Wisconsin. But the job piece of it is something the President really is trying to focus Wisconsinites on. Inflation, of course, is at the center of everyone's kitchen table, their gas bills, et cetera. So the President is trying to show that his administration is actually having economic achievements.

But one voter we talked to, who lives just outside this area where the plant will be built, he talked about just the whipsaw nature of Wisconsin and how anxious he is about the economy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: Can you feel that, like, how closely of a divided state it is?

DAVE FLANNERY, OWNER, APPLE HOLLER ORCHARD: Oh, absolutely. It's just creating a lot of anxiety for everybody, just tremendous anxiety. Yes. No matter what side of the spectrum you're on.

These are two of the most unfavorable candidates that maybe we've ever had. So, yes, I think we need some new blood.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: So President Biden is trying to ease some of those anxieties by talking about job creation. And there will be many jobs created at this plant, construction jobs in the short term, but also many other jobs in the long term. And certainly, as you said, President Biden is taking a specific aim at a former project that former president Donald Trump announced back in 2017 that never came to fruition at all.

Of course, that underlies the challenge here for all presidents. They make these announcements. Sometimes the announcements are not completed. The President hopes enough people will focus on his economic achievements. But again, the question, inflation versus job creation, and how do voters feel these achievements in their own pocketbooks. Jessica?

KEILAR: And, Jeff, the turnout of black voters, specifically where you are in Milwaukee, could really be key when it comes to Biden looking for a repeat here in 2024. Tell us what he's doing, because he is trying to court that vote. He's meeting with black voters today.

[13:05:07]

ZELENY: He will be. He'll be meeting at a community center in Racine after this announcement, really going out into the community, talking to some volunteers and some organizers who he is going to rely on to really reach their friends and neighbors.

And there is a big divide between the age range of black voters. Older black voters have been very supportive of this President. Younger voters across the board, particularly voters of color, have been more skeptical, a variety of reasons for that. But there is a sense of his economic policies for as big as they are, the billion dollar plans of building bridges and roads aren't the same necessarily as those stimulus checks that were sent out during the Trump administration.

So talking to organizers here, they say that is something this White House must convey that he is doing, you know, some economic progress and good for voters of all ages. And of course, the Gaza war, also playing a deep role in voters of color, you know, their skepticism of the President. So he's facing all that when he meets with voters this afternoon.

KEILAR: Yes. Some headwinds overcome. All right, Jeff Zeleny for us in Milwaukee, thanks so much for that reporting.

And a quick programming note, tonight on Out Front, Erin Burnett's exclusive one-on-one interview with President Biden. He sits down with our colleague to talk about the economy and his plans if he wins a second term. That interview again airing tonight at 7:00 Eastern right here on CNN.

And the President is on stage right now. Just moments ago, he went after his opponent, Donald Trump and his promises in Wisconsin from six years ago. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Our country is proud manufacturing legacy. We had infrastructure day every week for four years, he didn't build a damn thing. He and the administration promised a $10 billion investment by Foxconn to build a new manufacturing complex, create 13,000 new jobs. In fact, he came here with your Senator Ron Johnson, literally holding a golden shovel, promising to build the 8th wonder of the world. Are you kidding me?

Look what happened. They dug a hole, those golden shovels, and then they fell into it. Look, they didn't shovel other dirt. They did shovel some dirt, 100 homes were bulldozed. They wasted hundreds of millions of dollars, your state and local tax dollars, to promise a project that never happened. Foxconn turned out to be just that, a con. Go figure.

In just four years under his administration, instead of creating 13,000 jobs in Racine, my predecessor, and 100,000 manufacturing jobs, rather than creating them, 1,000 manufacturing jobs left Racine, 85,005 -- 83,500 total jobs left Wisconsin during my predecessor's term, but that's not on my watch. We're determined to turn it around.

Thus far, since we've come to office, we've created, and with the governors and overwhelming leadership, we've created over 178,000 jobs in Wisconsin, and we're going to create more here in Racine and big time.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR: A big pitch there from President Biden, his fourth trip to Wisconsin so far this year. And he talked about falling into a hole. Well, Wisconsin can kind of provide the hole that a candidate falls into. It has been very narrow. Trump winning by only 23,000 votes in 2016 against Hillary Clinton, Biden besting Trump by just 21,000 in 2020. So it is going to be very narrow as he makes this pitch.

DEAN: Such a teeny margin there in Wisconsin. I always say it's like going to a college football game. It's like that many people --

KEILAR: Exactly.

DEAN: -- you know, amazing.

Well, today we are learning new details about Trump defense attorneys shifting their strategy in that Manhattan hush money trial. Sources close to the former president tell us the defense now plans to go longer than originally expected during their cross examination.

KEILAR: Yes, we're told that they plan to ask Daniels additional questions to help protect the former president's reputation after she took the stand yesterday and recounted salacious details about their alleged sexual encounter in 2006. We have CNN correspondent Kara Scannell, who has been in the courtroom every day of the trial. And Kara, Trump's team worked hard to undermine Daniels credibility yesterday. What should we be expecting when it comes to that tomorrow?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brianna and Jessica, I think we're going to see more of the same when they resume their cross examination. They had about 90 minutes of cross with Stormy Daniels yesterday. And their main focus was to try to undermine her credibility and her motivation. So the initial -- one of the initial questions out of the gate was, you hate Donald Trump, don't you? And Daniels agreed. Yes, she did. She was asked, do you want to see him in jail? She said, I want to see him held accountable but if found guilty, absolutely.

[13:10:00]

So really kind of hammering in on that. They also focused on her motivation, saying that she wanted to sell her story. And Trump's attorney, Susan Necheles, was peppering her with questions. Here is one exchange I want to read to you. The defense attorney asked, my question was, you've been making money by claiming to have had sex with President Trump for more than a decade, right? Daniels said, I have been making money by telling my story about what happened to me. The attorney, and that story, in essence, is that you say you had sex with President Trump, right? Daniels said, yes. And she asked again, and that story has made you a lot of money, right? Daniels said, it has also cost me a lot of money. So we're expecting to have that continue.

And one of the reasons why the defense attorney said that they need or they plan to spend time cross examining Daniels is because of the breadth of detail that prosecutors brought out about Stormy Daniels encounter with the former president in the hotel room where Daniels said that they had sex. And just the kind of the scope of all those questions, Trump's attorneys say that they want to ask more about that and they want to challenge some inconsistent statements that they say Daniels has had over time in which they allege she has changed her story. Jess, Brianna? DEAN: And Kara, why did the judge warn the defense over President Trump's behavior during Stormy Daniels testimony? What was going on there?

SCANNELL: So while Stormy Daniels was testifying and talking about her conversations with Trump in the hotel room, Donald Trump had mouthed things with his -- with -- he mouthed some kind of word. It was not audible to us in the courtroom. But during a break, the judge had brought the attorneys up to the bench. So he said this in a sidebar, so we couldn't hear it at the time. We only learned it afterwards when we got the transcript. But the judge had said to him, I understand that your client is upset at this point, but he is cursing audibly and he is shaking his head visually and that's contemptuous. It has the potential to intimidate the witness, and the jury can see that.

So the judge had asked Trump's attorney to speak with Donald Trump about this. And then after we return from a break, he asked Trump's lawyer, Todd Blanche, did you speak with your client? And Blanche said that he had. We then did not see any apparent gestures or any other kind of reaction from Trump throughout the day. So heeded the judge's warning at this point so far in the trial.

KEILAR: All right, Kara Scannell, obviously, very interesting moments continue to talk about here. Thank you.

DEAN: And let's talk more about this with CNN senior legal analyst Elie Honig. Elie, always great to have you on and get your analysis of things. Sources telling CNN that Trump's legal team is shifting its strategy, planning a more extensive cross examination of Daniels that they need to in order to help protect Trump's reputation after she repeatedly raised the possibility that the sexual encounter was not consensual. Do you agree that the defense team needs to do this?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: I don't, Jessica. Longer is certainly not always better, especially when it comes to cross examination. The best cross examination is direct. It's efficient, it's right to the key points. And I think they started to do that yesterday. I think they, as Kara just laid out, I think they punched substantial holes in Stormy Daniels motivation, and Stormy Daniels credibility, I would continue with that. I would continue to confront her with prior inconsistent statements that she's made and she has. I would continue to point out her personal animus, hatred for Donald Trump. I would continue to point out her financial motives.

But I don't think by drawing this out over a longer period of time, it would make a cross examination any more effective sheerly for the length of it.

DEAN: And is there a chance -- and what kind of line do they have to walk as they go through cross examination? You're dealing with a witness who's been put in a very vulnerable position, sharing very vulnerable, you know, intimate details about something that happened to them.

HONIG: Yes, I think that's exactly right. It's a tricky balance for lawyers to find where, on the one hand, you do want to expose the witness's biases, the witness's lack of credibility. But you never want to risk being seen by a jury as bullying a witness. And I think while Stormy Daniels testimony had some aspects that were problematic for both sides, I do think she's probably a sympathetic relatable human being for the jury. And so I would be very wary of overdoing it, of being seen to browbeat her or even to go after her personally.

You can undermine her motives. You can undermine her credibility in a very professional straightforward way without having to tear her down as a human being. And I think that's the sweet spot that you want to aim for.

DEAN: And the intensity of the defenses cross kind of previewed potentially testimony of another star witness, really a witness a lot of this hinges on as well, Michael Cohen. Does the prosecution's case live and die by his testimony? How much of a linchpin is he going to be?

HONIG: I think it will live and die with Michael Cohen. Yes, this is a brisk warm up for what we're going to see either later this week or early next week when Michael -- we expect Michael Cohen to take the stand. Here's why Michael Cohen's testimony is so important. To this point, I think prosecutors have done an efficient, solid, workman like job of establishing the basic fundamentals that they have to show.

[13:15:06]

But there still is a missing link, which is directly tying Donald Trump to knowledge of the reimbursement scheme. The way that Michael Cohen was paid back in 2017 with this series of checks, and that it was done intentionally to try to cover up the hush money payments. We have a lot of documents and testimony around that point, and as -- that has made that point more plausible for the jury.

But Michael Cohen, it now appears quite clear, is going to be the only person who's going to say directly, Donald Trump knew what was going on, perhaps I discussed it with him. He was in on it. He was in on the falsification. And so what the prosecution has been trying to do, and I think with some effectiveness, is sort of narrow the gap that Michael Cohen is going to have to take the jury over. And whether he stands up will the truth -- the point will be told ultimately on cross examination. I think this cross of Stormy Daniels is a good warm up and preview of what we're going to see.

DEAN: All right, more to come. Court resumes tomorrow. Elie Honig, always great to see you. Thanks so much.

Still come this afternoon, a new round of strikes on Gaza. This as the U.S. holds off on sending a shipment of bombs to Israel over concerns of their potential use in Rafah.

KEILAR: Plus, new fallout from a CNN investigation into what happened during the 2021 attack outside of the Kabul airport that claimed the lives of 13 U.S. service men and women. Lawmakers now demanding answers from Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin. And TikTok suing the U.S. government. Coming up, the social media giant's new move to avoid a nationwide ban. Stay with CNN News Central. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:21:09]

KEILAR: The Israeli military is now responding to the U.S. pausing a shipment of bombs for Israel. The shipment, according to one U.S. official, was held back last week because of concerns that the bombs could possibly be used in Rafah. These are big bombs. An IDF spokesman was asked about this just a short time ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

So while I understand that the concerns are raised, we have to understand that the war against Hamas is a legitimate war, a war that has to be conducted in accordance to international humanitarian law and the laws of armed conflict. We maintain that is what we are doing, but we are determined to get rid of Hamas. Hamas have to go.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Israel has been conducting airstrikes in eastern Rafah, and hospital sources tell CNN that at least 35 people have died in those, including a four-month-old baby.

DEAN: Israel had previously ordered people to evacuate. A senior U.N. staffer says over the past two days, about 50,000 people have done so. CNN national security correspondent Natasha Bertrand joins us now with details on the shipment. And Natasha, the secretary of defense confirming this shipment was delayed.

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Yes, Jessica, in testimony to the Senate earlier today, Secretary Austin did confirm that the U.S. has put a hold on shipments of some of those very high payload munitions, including those 2,000 pound bombs that you mentioned. And he said that the U.S. is doing this within the context of unfolding operations in Rafah, making sure that the Israelis have a plan for getting civilians out of there before the U.S. decides whether it is going to continue to send these bombs that Israel has been using to really devastating effect elsewhere in Gaza. Here's a bit of what he told the Senate earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LLOYD AUSTIN, DEFENSE SECRETARY: Again, I think we haven't made any decisions. We did pause as we reevaluated some of the security assistance that we're providing to --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERTRAND: Now you saw some protesters interrupting him there, but the bottom line is that this is a pause that could be temporary. The U.S., of course, has the discretion to decide to continue these shipments if and when Israel provides the U.S. with a credible explanation for how they are going to move all of these 1 million plus Palestinian civilians out of southern Gaza, out of that area in Rafah, where Israel has indicated that it wants to conduct a large scale operation to eliminate the remaining Hamas battalions there.

This review of these weapons shipments to Israel apparently began in April when the Israelis began making clear that they did plan to go into Rafah, something that the U.S. has repeatedly warned them against doing. And so it remains to be seen whether this is some kind of wholesale policy change whereby the U.S. is going to start using the leverage and influence it has over military support to Israel to try to influence Israel's behavior on the battlefield.

For now, though, they are taking a beat. They are waiting to see just what Israel decides when it comes to pursuing that operation inside Rafah.

DEAN: All right, Natasha Bertrand, force at the Pentagon, thanks so much for that reporting.

KEILAR: Let's talk more about this now with Democratic Congressman Jared Moskowitz of Florida. He is on the House Oversight and Foreign Affairs Committee. Sir, thank you for taking the time to be with us today. Your reaction, just first, to the U.S. pausing shipment of these bigger bombs to Israel?

REP. JARED MOSKOWITZ (D-FL): No, thanks. Thanks for having me. Yes. Look, there's all sorts of posturing and messaging that's going on publicly. You know, for right now, we were hoping that we would get a ceasefire. I think that's what the American people were hoping. I think a ceasefire is needed in the region in extreme exchange for the release of hostages. But unfortunately, Hamas continues to not to agree to the ceasefire on the table. In fact, they sent out ceasefire propaganda yesterday that a lot of the world absorbed, which was completely false.

[13:25:00]

You know, obviously the hope is that the operation in Rafah is very limited, but obviously there needs to be additional pressure on Hamas to agree to a ceasefire. And all of this posturing that's going on, unfortunately, just, it continues to relieve Hamas of any pressure to agree to a ceasefire.

KEILAR: When you say posturing, do you mean withholding 2,000 pound bombs? Do you see that as posturing?

MOSKOWITZ: Yes, I mean, look, as we know, right, every country that's talking to Israel, right, sometimes they say things publicly versus what's going on behind the scenes. I mean, the President has been clear that so far this limited operation in Rafah does not cross a red line. The White House put that statement out. So if it hasn't crossed the red line, I don't know why we would be pausing any weapons.

We need to get to a ceasefire as fast as possible. We need to make sure we're getting humanitarian aid in as fast as possible for the innocent Palestinians to make sure that we don't continue to have a food crisis in the area. But the only way this is going to end as soon as possible is if Hamas releases the hostages. We don't even have, quite frankly, any honesty, shocking from Hamas how many hostages are left. They try to change the deal and now want to return bodies instead of hostages. And so we need to increase the pressure on Hamas. Everything we do that gives Hamas a little bit of room or a little bit of an excuse, unfortunately let's Hamas get away with an additional day of dragging this out. They're the ones prolonging this.

We had hoped Israel wouldn't go into Rafah, but because Hamas won't release the hostages, this unfortunately continues.

KEILAR: Yes. It's incredibly alarming what we're learning about the hostages and how many may or may not be alive. Do you think the IDF though, needs 2,000 pound bombs to effectively put pressure on Hamas?

MOSKOWITZ: Well, look, I'm not a war commander, OK, so I don't know what they need or not need. I mean, the idea right now is hopefully they're not doing a lot of this from the air.

KEILAR: All right, but I mean, well, let's not, you know, you are on pertinent committees and you know what these bombs do and you know how they can be used tactically. Do you think the IDF needs them to put pressure on Hamas?

MOSKOWITZ: Yes, what I was going to say, Brianna, is I don't think that much of this war should be done by the air anymore. I don't think that is at this stage of the war. I think we should be doing more on the ground like you saw the last couple of days rather than from the air. That being said, the message that it sends to Hamas, just like the message that Hamas is getting from watching American television, right? They see their power growing in this country by people supporting them.

And so Hamas is very interested in the PR war. They're willing to sacrifice Palestinians to win the PR war. OK. And so when they see America pulling back even in the slightest, right, that is a message to Hamas of, we don't have to agree to a ceasefire. So that's my concern about this sort of stuff. Obviously, we want, again, this -- we want Rafah to be limited. We want it to achieve a target. We want to make sure we're protecting innocent civilian life. But right now, we got to get to a ceasefire. And the only way that's going to happen is if there's more pressure on Hamas, not less.

KEILAR: We've seen, no doubt, in some instances, terrible language when it comes to these -- some of these protesters. And you know that, you've seen it as well at GWU, where I believe you attended. But do you believe that all protesters are supporting Hamas?

MOSKOWITZ: No, of course not. But let's not gloss over that many of them are, right? I mean, here's the deal. If I'm at a protest and we're chanting ceasefire now, and all of a sudden the chant at the protest changes to bomb Tel Aviv or kill all Zionists, and I don't leave, I'm now at a anti-Jewish protest, right?

By the way, where are the protesters? I haven't seen them. If there are, please show them to me. Where are the protesters that are fighting for Palestinians, that are fighting against the war, that are protesting Netanyahu? All fair, all under the First Amendment. Where are those people saying, hey, those guys over there that are saying, kill all the Zionists, bomb Tel Aviv, go back to Poland. They're not with us. They're not with us. That's not going to help people in Gaza. Have you seen those people? I haven't seen those people.

KEILAR: Do you think at this point in time, if we can focus on the Rafah offensive, that the IDF can actually eradicate Hamas with a Rafah offensive?

MOSKOWITZ: Well, listen, we know that fighting against an ideology is hard to eradicate. The idea at this point, I think, is to demilitarize Hamas to a point where they can no longer launch anything offensive against Israel and obviously to remove them from the power structure so that we can rebuild Gaza and get a new government in to actually fight for the Palestinians.

[13:30:01]

I mean, remember Hamas? The leaders of Hamas are worth billions of dollars. How did they get that money? Did they invent a product? No, they stole from their own people.