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Rep. Mike Lawler (R-NY) Interviewed on His Criticism of Biden Administration for Withholding Weapons from Israel Pending Potential Invasion of Rafah; Defense to Continue Cross-Examination of Stormy Daniels in Hush Money Criminal Trial of Donald Trump; Family of Florida Airman Killed By Police Demands Bodycam Footage; Whelan Concerned Arrest of US Soldier in Russia Could Complicate His Case. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired May 09, 2024 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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REP. MIKE LAWLER, (R-NY): So my voters are not going to be upset with my vote. In fact, my voters think these two are idiots.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Let me change focus, if I can. You mentioned a policy announcement, as you call it, from Joe Biden last night speaking to Erin Burnett in talking about how if Israel goes into Rafah, rather, in a major way, that he will not supply the weapons and artillery -- artillery shells that the United States has been providing and that have been used. You called that a complete betrayal. Why?

LAWLER: Well, first of all, the United States and Israel are as close as can be, and we should be supporting them in this moment. Israel is under threat. It's under attack. They have a right to defend themselves. Hamas is a terrorist organization, and nobody would have ever told the United States in the aftermath of 9/11 not to go after Al-Qaeda. Nobody would have told us during the war on terror not to go after ISIS. The fact is that Hamas is using innocent Palestinians as human shields.

BOLDUAN: Right, and --

LAWLER: Israel has a right to -- this war and the administration --

BOLDUAN: And Biden is saying that, right, Congressman? Biden said that he supports Israel defending itself. It seems what he's trying to say is he does -- he's trying to pressure Israel to lessen the chance of killing civilians in Gaza. You do not think those two things can happen?

LAWLER: Defending oneself includes rooting out the threat. Hamas is a threat. They continue to believe in the eradication of the state of Israel. They are a proxy of Iran. They are funded by Iran. Under Joe Biden, Iranian petroleum sales are up at $88 billion. Those funds are used to fund Hamas, Hezbollah, the Houthis.

So what the president is doing here is capitulated because of electoral politics, because he's concerned about the vote in Michigan and Minnesota. And that is taking precedent over eliminating a terroristic threat. And to me that's unconscionable. I don't care how many ways he tries to spin this, that is absolutely unconscionable. Congress passed aid to Israel just a few weeks ago. The president has a responsibility you to move that aid expeditiously.

BOLDUAN: Congressman Mike Lawler, thank you for coming on.

A new hour of CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts now.

SARA SIDNER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Shaking up their strategy, Donald Trump's defense is changing its cross-examination of Stormy Daniels after her embarrassing and explicit testimony. We're saying candy by for Trump to leave court any minute now.

A 23-year-old active duty senior airman fatally shot by Florida deputies in his own apartment. His family says, it happened after they went to the wrong address. Now they're demanding answers and the release of the bodycam footage.

Also, a close call on the runway wait at Orlando International Airport, the FAA now investigating yet another close incursion after a plane was told to taxi across the same runway another was used using to take off.

I'm Sara Sidner with John Berman and Kate Bolduan. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: We are standing by to see Stormy Daniels back on the stand in the criminal trial against Donald Trump. And we are just getting word that the defense is making new plans for how to deal with her in the cross-examination. Stormy Daniels testified that she had sex with Donald Trump. She testified about how she had sex with Donald Trump, even what he was wearing before and during.

Now, CNN has learned the defense says it has a while to go with its questioning. Remember, Trump is charged with falsifying documents to cover up hush money payments to Daniels, all to influence the 2016 election.

CNN's Brynn Gingras live outside court this morning for what we can expect. I imagine it's going to be another interesting data, to say the least, Brynn.

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it's going be interesting, John. Listen, Stormy Daniels was on the stand for about 90 minutes for the cross-examination. It was longer for that, of course, because she was questioned by the prosecution first. But 90 minutes wasn't enough for the defense team to ask their questions. And they didn't exactly like how that prosecution questioning went. They were told by sources that they're upset that basically she was insinuating the sex that happened between her and President Trump, which he denies, of course, was consensual. They said that they need more time now to basically work on repairing his reputation. And so they said they have a while to go with the questioning of Stormy Daniels. So now the question is, how much longer are they going to take? And

then, of course, after cross-examination, she is going to be redirected with questioning by the prosecution.

[08:05:01]

Another thing I think we're going to all be looking out for is how she is on the stand, right? She was very composed, according to our court reporters who were inside on Tuesday, when prosecution was asking questions, but a bit more feistier when it was the defense council asking her questions. So we'll see if that day between yesterday when court was dark, if that's helped her get herself together more for what's about to come from the defense attorneys, who, of course, were firing questions at her on Tuesday, basically questioning her credibility, questioning her motives, calling her buddies with Michael Cohen, basically, insinuating that she was lying. There was a lot that happened, of course, as you know, as you talked about yesterday, in court on Tuesday.

So we are waiting to see when she takes the stand how long that's going to last, and then of course, who is up next after that. Will Michael Cohen be the next witness? We just don't know.

But listen, John, as an aside to this, I've got to tell you, we're looking at the line for the public that are still waiting to go into court, and there's probably about 100 people that are in line from the public who want to get inside and see this testimony. A lot of people are here because they actually want to see Stormy Daniels. Some of those people I've talked to, they are coming back after being here on Tuesday. One person described it as a soap opera happening right in front of them. So a lot of interest in her testimony today, for sure.

BERMAN: Look, it was history. I mean, it was historic. It promises to be historic today, one way or another. Brynn Gingras, it all get started very shortly. Thank you very much.

Sara?

SIDNER: Historic and explicit, if you will.

With me now is CNN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney Joey Jackson. You've been watching the details of this trial as they are coming down. Donald Trump's defense team changing their strategy a bit saying, look, we're going to put Stormy Daniels on cross-examine, on the stand for a longer time than they had initially said. And that is partly because, they said, try to help Donald Trump's reputation after all this information that she put out there about the alleged one night stand she had with him.

She also talked about, she said, look, it was consensual, but she intimated, look, there's a power balance, and she talked about him sort of blocking her way to the door. What is happening here? Is this something that is a good idea for them to keep going down this road with her?

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: So Sara, good morning. Look, no one on has a monopoly on wisdom with respect to how you do trials, how you conduct them. In my view, I think it's a mistake. Why? You got what you needed out of her.

Now, a little inside baseball. Here's the issue. The judge is not going to permit a renewed and a new cross-examination. They've covered ground, that is the defense team. You're not allowed to say, OK, I'm going to have a do-over. No. There's something in the courtroom called "asked and answered." That means you asked the question. The witness answered. Counsel, move on. And so with respect to a renewed strategy, if it's ground that hasn't been covered, fine. But the judge will not allow them to go back.

Why do I think it's a mistake, Sara? You got what you wanted out of her. Cross-examination is to make your closing argument. The closing argument to be made is you heard her, ladies and gentlemen. She said she hated the former president. Would you trust someone who hates my client? Could you put any stock in any word she says? You know why she's here everybody. You can savage her in your closing argument.

The whole essence of cross-examination, yes, to attack credibility, yes, to speak your narrative if you're the defense, but to make the argument. You've got that. What do you lingering on? Are you lingering on because it's all about this affair, the affair, the affair. This is not a trial about an affair. It's a trial about business records. Keep your eye on the prize.

And so I think renewing it and it's a longer cross is a mistake, but that's my view, and everyone does things differently, and potentially they have an effective strategy. My view is I don't think so.

SIDNER: You're talking about the sort of legal ramifications here as opposed to the reputational ones, which is not what the jury is going to be looking at.

All right, I do want to ask you about some of the details that did come out, because there were a lot more explicit details, I think, then the defense certainly had expected, because the judge already ruled that any -- he said, quote, the details of the intercourse do not need to be put out there to the jury. Do you think this is going to be used on appeal?

JACKSON: It definitely will be, right. We saw Sara that they tried the mistrial, right, the mistrial saying that there's no way we can come back from this. It just prejudiced the jury too much. That didn't work. It will be used on appeal. In terms of whether it will be effective, I don't believe so. I think this is one witness, one issue.

And at the end of the day, listen, this witness serves as the impetus and the motivation as to why Trump did what he did. And I think the argument from the prosecution, I talked about the defense before, will be he spent an awful lot of time trying to bury a story for an affair that didn't happen in a witness who is potentially lying. Like, does that make sense to you?

SIDNER: So you're talking about, it's a credibility issue. JACKSON: A hundred percent. And that'll be the argument the prosecution makes to the jury, right, on closing argument, to buttress the notion that this hush money deal and this whole boosting election prospects, she was the impetus and the motivating factor because of the affair. That's why they're lingering on it.

[08:10:08]

SIDNER: Real quick, do you have a guess on who is the next person up on the stand?

(LAUGHTER)

SIDNER: You've got Michael Cohen still, you've got Karen McDougal, the "Playboy" playmate that she had an affair. But the prosecution has been doing this thing where they put somebody who is -- the public is very interested in hearing from, and then they put someone from the bookkeeping side.

JACKSON: Yes, and that's what you have to do, right, to kind of balance what goes and keep the jury awake. I think you do need more information with respect to records and invoices and that type thing. I think Karen McDougal, I think would be important because, hey, you did the same thing there. If you did it with Karen McDougal with regard to this hush money, it's a pattern. You didn't do it with Stormy Daniels? That's a disconnect. They will not end on Michael Cohen. That's, I believe, would be a mistake because he's too controversial.

SIDNER: He's -- there's going to be a lot of cross examination there for sure.

Joey Jackson, thank you so much, appreciate you.

JACKSON: Always.

SIDNER: Kate?

BOLDUAN: This morning, a family is calling for transparency and accountability after a 23-year-old black airman in Florida was killed by a sheriff's deputy. The deputy apparently going to the wrong apartment when responding to a call.

And Paul Whelan, the American who has been wrongfully detained in Russia for more than five years now, he speaks to CNN. Why he is now concerned the new arrest of an American soldier in Russia, the recent one, could complicate in this case.

And Congress is taking action to get heavy metals like lead and arsenic out of baby food.

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BOLDUAN: New this morning, the family of a Black airman shot and killed by a Florida deputy. The family is now demanding the release of body camera footage of that deadly police encounter. The sheriff says the deputies were investigating a disturbance in progress.

When entered Roger Fortson's apartment, the deputies shot him after seeing him holding a gun, but a witness who says they were FaceTiming with Fortson as this all happened, that witness believes the police went to the wrong apartment.

CNN's Nick Valencia is following this. He is joining us now.

Nick, what more are you learning here?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, hey, there. Good morning, Kate.

The family and this witness who was on a FaceTime call with 23-year- old Roger Fortson, they are adamant that police were in the wrong in this situation. All of this went down last week in Okaloosa County, Florida, when Sheriff's deputies said they were responding to a disturbance in progress called, but all of that is in question right now.

According to this witness who was on the FaceTime call, Fortson was on the phone call. He heard two knocks at the door, went to the door, saw no one in the peephole.

He gets scared, goes and grabs his legally owned gun and according to the witness, that's when Sheriff's deputies allegedly burst into his apartment and opened fire.

CNN affiliate WEAR says that Fortson was shot at least six times, including once in the chest and this is what the Sheriff's deputies are saying in response to what happened last week. "Hearing sounds of a disturbance, the deputy reacted in self-defense after he encountered a 23-year-old man armed with a gun, and after the deputy had identified himself as law enforcement. That deputy went on to shoot Fortson who later succumbed to his injuries."

The statement goes on to say: "The deputy was placed on administrative leave and they've asked the Florida Department of Law Enforcement to conduct an investigation."

This has all developed very quickly. Ben Crump, the famed Civil Rights attorney is now representing the family and we expect to get more details about what happened here in Okaloosa County later this morning, Kate, at a press conference at 11:30 -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: All right, we will definitely be learning more this morning. Nick, thank you for that -- John.

VALENCIA: You bet.

BERMAN: All right, a close call on an airport runway has investigators tracking down the communication breakdown in air traffic control.

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BOLDUAN: A CNN exclusive, Paul Whelan is the former US Marine who has been wrongfully detained in Russia for more than five years.

In a new call with CNN, he says he is concerned that the recent arrest in Russia of a US Army staff sergeant could complicate his own case even further.

CNN's Jennifer Hansler is at the State Department. She is joining us now with much more on this.

Jen, tell us more about your conversation because at the same time, he is expressing these concerns, you write that he also is expressing some more optimism than you've heard in previous calls.

JENNIFER HANSLER, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT PRODUCER: Well, that's right, Kate.

He sounded a lot more positive about the situation and the efforts that are underway by the US government to try to secure his release. He tells me that he knows there are negotiations ongoing, that proposals have been made, and he is hopeful that this is nearing the end.

At the same time though, as you mentioned, he did express what he described as a little bit of a concern that this recent arrest of this US soldier in Russia could complicate those negotiations, if this soldier is declared wrongfully detained, which is a designation given by the US State Department. That has not happened yet, given that this happened so recently, that process often takes a long time, Kate.

But he said that in the past it has been a pattern when there have been more arrested Americans and those Americans have been declared wrongfully detained, and that has made Russia want to go back to square one on negotiations.

This is how we describe it to me, Kate

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

PAUL WHELAN, FORMER US MARINE WHO HAS BEEN WRONGFULLY DETAINED IN RUSSIA: Unfortunately, if this gentleman is declared wrongfully detailed, it will sort of start negotiations for Evan and I all over again then, there will be the three of us. And this is one of the problems that we've had in the past.

You know, they were negotiating for me and then it was Trevor and me, and then it was Brittney and me, and now, it's Evan and me.

And every time they've negotiated, it has always been starting fresh when there is another persona involved.

So, yes, it is a bit of a concern.

(END AUDIO CLIP) HANSLER: So it is still very early in this process, Kate, to see

whether this actually does play any impact on those negotiations, a Russian court this week said they had extended the pretrial detention of that soldier for another two months, so we will see what happens there.

And the State Department says they are still working their utmost to bring home Paul and Evan and a State Department spokesperson told me yesterday that Russia should release them -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Hearing from him, especially right now is so important. It is great reporting on this always and I always marvel that we can hear from Paul Whelan in his own words, from detention in Russia.

Jennifer, thank you -- John.

[08:25:14 ]

BERMAN: All right, her testimony bothered Donald Trump so much he cursed in court, which earned a stern warning from the judge, so what will Stormy Daniels say next when she takes the stand in just a few minutes?

And scathing reaction out of Israel to President Biden's exclusive interview with CNN. One politician just tweeted "Hamas (heart) Biden."

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