Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

Cohen Testifies Monday; Trump Unhappy Yesterday After Court; Bodycam Footage in Florida Shooting. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired May 10, 2024 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: To see you.

DEREK VAN DAM, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Nice to see you too.

BOLDUAN: Looking forward to the chance for many to see it for the first time.

It's good to see you.

A new hour of CNN NEW CENTRAL starts now.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: We begin with breaking news. We now know when Donald Trump's ex-lawyer and former fixer, Michael Cohen, will take the stand in the hush money trial. We are live outside court where the trial resumes in just minutes.

Also, a high-stakes report on whether Israel has violated international humanitarian law, heading to Congress today. We're learning new details on what the Biden administration has decided on that front.

And an emotional plea from the family of a black U.S. airman shot in his own apartment by a deputy. Tell the truth about my son. The deputy's bodycam footage just released as sheriff's deputies are looking into the family's claims.

I'm Sara Sidner, with Kate Bolduan and John Berman. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, and the breaking news this morning, we just learned moments ago when the critical moment in the critical trial - the criminal trial of Donald Trump he is coming. Michael Cohen set to take the witness stand on Monday. Remember, Donald Trump is charged with falsifying business records to cover up hush money payments to Stormy Daniels, adult film actress, all to influence the 2016 election. Michael Cohen is the key piece for prosecutors to make this case. It is Michael Cohen who will likely provide the testimony that Donald Trump somehow knew or was connected to the falsification of documents. He will take the stand on Monday, as I said. This will be a dramatic moment.

CNN's Kristen Holmes live outside the court with this new information. Also, Kristen, it does beg the question, what will we see today in

this trial?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, so first we'll talk about Michael Cohen, because this is something that we know both prosecution and the defense have been preparing for. We have been watching the prosecution lay out their case brick by brick, but that missing piece his trying Donald Trump to those payments. A knowledge of Donald Trump. And it appears that Michael Cohen is going to be that missing link. He will be laying out exactly what he says happened with this hush money payment and these reimbursement payments.

Now, in terms of how the defense is going to handle this, remember what we have said from the very beginning, they plan on going attack mode fully on Michael Cohen, painting him as an unreliable witness. Some of which we saw, or a little taste of what we saw when we saw that cross-examination of Stormy Daniels yesterday, really tearing into her, being aggressive, picking up old posts, Twitter posts, as well as looking at passages of her book, old interviews. You can expect the same thing when the defense goes after Michael Cohen as well.

The big question, of course, will be, what does the jury think? And that's just not something either side really knows the answer to.

Now, what we're talking about today, we are still finishing up that testimony with Madeleine Westerhout. She is an ex-White House aide. She sat outside of the Oval Office. And she was the one who planned - set up the meeting between Michael Cohen and Donald Trump, where Michael Cohen alleges they had this conversation about the repayment for these financial payments, the hush money payment.

Now, the reason why Westerhout is such an important witness is because she was really privy to almost everything during this timeframe that we have been talking about. She was not only just sitting outside of the Oval Office, but she was really in control of his schedule. She was next him almost at all times.

One of the things we talked about a lot with former President Donald Trump is the fact that he doesn't like to text, he doesn't like to use his own phone. Well, if you wanted to get in touch with the former president at this time, two of the people you go to, Hope Hicks or Madeleine Westerhout. He was really the eyes and ears at that point.

And remember, this was a chaotic time. The former president didn't really think he was probably going to make it into office. And so because of that, there was constant stream of people in and out, big meetings, all of which Madeleine Westerhout can attest to.

So, obviously, we're waiting to see what it is the big key element of her testimony with the prosecution today. We expect that to happen later this morning.

BERMAN: All right, Kristen Holmes for us outside the courthouse.

You know, this news that Michael Cohen testifies Monday, what this really sets up, Kate, is everything we will hear today, everything up until this point is trying to narrow that amount that Michael Cohen has to testify to for the prosecution. So, it will be interesting to see how they play it.

BOLDUAN: It is all the groundwork being laid for it.

BERMAN: Yes.

BOLDUAN: We do know that Donald Trump has arrived at court. Things are about to get underway very shortly.

We also know that Donald Trump did not leave court happy yesterday. With the new reporting on why and what the people around him plan to do about it, Alayna Treene back with us with much more.

What is it that set him off?

[09:05:03]

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: Well, look, I think it was a number of things, Kate. I mean clearly Donald Trump was very angry. I think it was clear to our reporters in the courtroom, but also in my conversations with Donald Trump's team behind the scenes, they acknowledge, this was a very uncomfortable week for Donald Trump. A very challenging week.

And, really, Stormy Daniels was one of the witnesses that they were the most worried about because they were afraid that she was going to share some very salacious details about the former president. And that's exactly what we saw on display during her testimony this week.

And one key thing they keep telling me over and over again is, they are not sure how this could play out in a general election. From the politics side of this, which I cover, that is the huge question is, how will general election voters view this? And they really do not know how that is going to play out.

Now, we did see a post overnight actually from Stormy Daniels where she was kind of taunting Donald Trump, saying that, you know, maybe you should be testifying and, you know, that's the kind of thing where when I talk to Trump's team, they say this is exactly why we're so frustrated about the gag order because they have witnesses - we're going to see this play out with Michael Cohen next week - who are able to attack Donald Trump, tell their side of the story. And for someone like Trump, it's like his inner psychological being thinks that he needs to defend himself and he wants to be able to publish - publicly push back on some of these claims that he is hearing and he's unable to do that. We saw the judge reiterate that yesterday when they said, no, this falls within the gag order, you cannot respond here, even though his lawyers had tried to see if they could have a way around that.

BOLDUAN: Also, Donald Trump, after what happens today, Donald Trump's heading back to - on the campaign trail this weekend. What do we - what are you hearing about it? TREENE: You know, it's actually really interesting, just speaking of the gag order. It's going to be very difficult for the former president to not violate the gag order this weekend, knowing, you know, right off the heels of this explosive testimony from Stormy Daniels and ahead of what we now know will be Michael Cohen's testimony beginning Monday.

But, look, he's going to be heading to New Jersey. I know, very interesting. People close to the former president kind of raised their eyebrows at this as well. He's going to be holding a rally in Wildwood, New Jersey. No hate on Jersey. I'm from there. But it's not a critical battleground state, you know? And when I've talked to some people, part of it is the proximity to New York. Donald Trump is - you know, doesn't want to travel far. It's close to his Bedminster golf club. But his campaign also argues that they'll be able to get some of the media attention from the nearby actual battleground state of Pennsylvania, the Philly suburbs, that sort of thing.

And we've seem Donald Trump actually visit the Jersey shore and Wildwood itself in the past. But it is a very interesting choice, especially as we know he hasn't been campaigning that much, despite him having the opportunity and complaining that the court and the judge is keeping him from hitting the campaign trail. This is only his third rally, or I should say second day of hitting the campaign trail since this trial started.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Yes. Alayna Treene with the Jersey disclosure of this. It's great to see you, Alayna. Thank you so much.

Sara.

TREENE: Thank you.

SIDNER: That's what I took away from that whole conversation. Alayna Treene, Jersey girl.

BOLDUAN: I love Alayna Treene. She's -

SIDNER: All right, coming up, the Biden administration is preparing to release a high-stakes report on Israel's fight in Gaza. The question they have to answer, did Israel violate international law while using U.S. weapons. That's ahead.

Also, disturbing body camera video shedding light on what happened in the moments leading up to the fatal police shooting of a 23-year-old active duty airman in his own home. What we're hearing from law enforcement after the family insists the deputy went to the wrong apartment. That's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:13:21]

SIDNER: This morning, Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin says he's now closely monitoring the case of a U.S. airman shot and killed by a Florida deputy. The Okaloosa County Sheriff's Department released bodycam video of the deputy shooting Roger Fortson, maintaining they went to the right apartment. But Fortson's family says the details don't add up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHANTEMEKKI FORTSON, ROGER FORTSON'S MOTHER: I need you guys to tell the truth about my son. I need you to get his reputation right.

BENJAMIN CRUMP, ATTORNEY: Yes.

FORTSON: If you have a heart, if you have a niece, a nephew, any young person in your life, tell the truth about my son.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: Fortson's family legal team also released their own video from the facetime call between Fortson and his girlfriend, which caught the aftermath of that shooting.

CNN's Nick Valencia is in Atlanta for us.

Nick, he is from Georgia. What are you learning from these videos? I know they are extremely disturbing.

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They are so disturbing, Sara. And social justice activists are enraged this morning, saying that this is just another example of police in America putting out false narratives about what really happened. In fact, during a press conference yesterday, Ben Crump, who's representing the family, said the initial statement from the Okaloosa County Sheriff's Office seemed to indicate that this shooting did not happen inside Roger Fortson's apartment, but rather outside, and that the deputy used fatal force because he feared for his life.

Now, there is also a dispute over this claim of whether or not the deputies responded to the wrong address. They were responding, they say, to a disturbance in progress call.

We want to show you this video and warn you that it is extremely graphic.

[09:15:02]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sheriff's office. Open the door.

Sheriff's office. Open the door.

Step out.

Drop the gun! Drop the gun!

ROGER FORTSON: It's over there. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Drop the gun!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VALENCIA: Now we paused the video to now show that - those fatal shots. But you heard the audio in real time. And you see there's just a matter of seconds that passed before that deputy - the door opened and that deputy opened fire.

The victim has been identified as 23-year-old Roger Fortson, an active airmen in the U.S. Air Force, a senior airman. He was on a Facetime call with his girlfriend, who was a witness of this shooting. She says there was no disturbance to begin with.

And want to show you the video that she gave to Ben Crump the allowed him to release it. And in this video, which is also graphic, Fortson is on the ground saying that he's struggling to breathe. And even still, the deputy continues to give him commands.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(INAUDIBLE)

ROGER FORTSON: I can't breathe.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do not move! Stop moving! Stop moving!

(INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hang on, man, we've got the EMS coming for you. Don't move.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hang on. We're good (ph). We're good (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're good. He had a gun (ph) as soon as he opened that door.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VALENCIA: Now, you've seen this bodycam footage and that Facetime (INAUDIBLE) -

SIDNER: Just watch those videos (INAUDIBLE)

Nick Valencia, thank you so much. I appreciate your reporting.

John.

VALENCIA: You bet.

BERMAN: All right, what a moment in the criminal trial of Donald Trump. We just learned when the key witness, Michael Cohen, will take the stand, and we're about to see how the prosecution sets up this crucial testimony. Court resumes in just minutes. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:22:30]

BOLDUAN: We are going to show you live pictures - two live pictures. On the left hand side of your screen, live outside the courthouse in lower Manhattan. On the right side of your screen, inside the courthouse in Manhattan. The hallway where Donald Trump will be entering the courtroom very soon. Breaking -

BERMAN: A lot of activity in these two pictures.

BOLDUAN: You know what -

BERMAN: Sorry. Sorry. Go ahead.

SIDNER: Not a darn thing going on.

BOLDUAN: See, it says Kate in the corner there?

BERMAN: Sorry, go ahead.

BOLDUAN: But the breaking news, as I would get to, is that on Monday, Michael Cohen is expected to take the stand.

Joining us now is CNN legal analyst and former federal prosecutor Jennifer Rodgers, and CNN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney Joey Jackson.

With the news that Michael Cohen, who is the central puzzle piece to the prosecutor's case, that they need to prove a crime was committed, he is going to be - expected o begin testimony on Monday. You do - with that knowledge now, how is - how do you set up towards that today?

JENNIFER RODGERS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, we've got Madeleine Westerhout on the stand, right, so we'll have to finish with her. I'm actually kind of surprised they're not calling Michael Cohen today. You always -

BOLDUAN: To start it off?

RODGERS: Well, you always want the jury to sit over the weekend with something really good. And even if you had half an hour with Michael Cohen, you could kind of, in very broad strokes, take him through the scheme and then go back into detail later. So, I'm a little bit surprised that they're not going to do that. I liked the jury to sit with some good prosecution stuff over the weekend.

SIDNER: All right, I do want to ask you about this. If the Stormy Daniels testimony was contentious, what's this going to look like? How long do you think Michael Cohen will be on the stand? She was on the stand a couple of days. Michael?

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, you know, Sara, to that point, interestingly enough, you looked at the prosecution for Stormy Daniels. What was it, about three hours and change. And the defense went over that, right?

SIDNER: Right.

JACKSON: So, there will be a lot to talk about with him.

I'm one who believes that, you know, he's the pivotal witness. He's the critical one. I don't buy that. I just don't, right? And I know everyone's yelling, what are you talking about? Michael Cohen, he's the guy. He brings it all together.

What they have done, that is the prosecution, is they spent so much time corroborating the things he would say, right? Supporting what he'll talk about. Pecker with the catch and kill, right? Hope Hicks, with respect to the "Access Hollywood" tape and the imperative of the campaign to bury the story. You know, all these financial documents and things that are in. So, when he testifies, yes, he's important, but he's going to say a lot of what has been said.

And then, of course, the lynchpin, because he's going to say, I did all this because of this guy, right, the defendant sitting there. But you already can make reasonable inferences that that's the case.

Last point.

[09:25:00]

He already, right, was in - we have this meeting in the Oval Office that we know he went to. So, what were they talking about? And then we have this flow of checks from a personal account from one Donald J. Trump to him. So, yes, you're a liar. You're a perjurer. You lied before Congress. You're a convicted felon. All of that. Yes. But he's saying essentially things that have been supported by other people.

BERMAN: On the other hand.

JACKSON: Yes. I knew that was coming.

BERMAN: OK. So, Donald Trump is charged with falsifying documents to cover up hush money payments to Stormy Daniels to influence the 2016 election. Falsifying documents. We do not yet have specific testimony, Jen, that Donald Trump was involved in the falsifying of documents, which is where it seems that Michael Cohen comes in. So, he may not have to testify to tons of things, to Joey's point, but doesn't it seem like he's got to testify to that one crucial thing?

RODGERS: He does. And this is where this corroboration comes in. He's going to testify about tons of things. And the reason that he does that is to give the jury the full picture, but also because, as Joey says, a lot of the other stuff is heavily corroborated. So, what you end up with is a jury that thinks, huh, 95 percent of what he said I believe 100 percent because I heard it in a bunch of places. That piece isn't as heavily corroborated. I think it is corroborated by some of what we've seen in terms of his being a micromanager. He knows exactly what pennies are coming in and out, et cetera.

But they say, listen, he told us the truth about everything else. Of course we believe him about that too.

BERMAN: But does he have - how explicitly does he have to testify to the issue of Trump being connected to the falsified documents?

RODGERS: Completely explicit. Allen Weisselberg, Donald Trump and I sat in a room and we put together the reimbursement scheme and here's what was said. He said, I said, Allen said, et cetera. That's how it has to be.

BOLDUAN: So, if there - there may be more witnesses after that. This is probably the - I think it's been described as the last like substantive witness that the prosecution is going to be putting on.

So then you start wondering, what is the case that the defense is putting on?

JACKSON: That is a very good question. And here's the issue, Kate, right. From a defense perspective, what you're looking at is, did we have and establish enough doubt not to have a case, right? Remember, the defense has no burden. That defense is not there to prove anything. The defense is there to raise the specter of reasonable doubt. So, from a strategic perspective, you ask yourself, do we need witnesses to otherwise establish that there's reasonable doubt, or do we just get up and, on closing arguments, say the prosecution has improved their case because if you're relying upon the linchpin between Michael Cohen establishing that this was done at the behest of his boss, that's a false thing to do because he's a liar. So, whether there will be any case is the open question and whether Donald Trump would be goaded to testify, which I think would be a huge mistake, is another question. But I just don't see this major defense case. I think they rely upon reasonable doubt.

SIDNER: I guess the big question is, who would they call? Who would they call to the stand other than Donald J. Trump?

RODGERS: That's right. I mean the only thing you might think about doing is to call someone who can establish that even though he was a micromanager and managed his business so closely, in those first months of the presidency with everything that was going on, it wasn't quite like that. But they're actually getting those pieces from people like Madeleine Westerhout and Hope -

BOLDUAN: Yes.

RODGERS: You know, other people who can say how chaotic it was. So, honestly, I think they probably won't call anyone.

BERMAN: I want to know what happens today. If Michael Cohen testifies on Monday, what happens today?

RODGERS: That's the question. I mean, I know, that's why I thought they might call him today. I mean, who else could they put on? I mean another, you know, records type person. They've got to save some of that for after Michael Cohen, to put that little cushion.

BERMAN: But then I imagined - and, again, if you're going by my theory, not saying it's right, but you're trying to -

BOLDUAN: Always going by your theory.

SIDNER: John Berman esquire.

BERMAN: You're - always going by my - you're trying to narrow that part which depends on Michael Cohen. Is there any way to narrow it more before he takes the stand Monday?

JACKSON: I think potentially what you do, because you have to be careful, to Jen's point, because you don't want him to be the last person.

BERMAN: Right.

JACKSON: Because it's going to be to controversial of the testimony. And he's going to be salvaged and called a liar and a perjure and you can't trust him and believe him. Don't want to leave that the last thing in the jury's mind. So, you have to strategically think about, if we're going to put on documents people, could I put on just one or two more, right, who could talk to you about the ledgers, the invoices, the checks, the Sharpie pens, where they originated from, the White House, getting to the White House, a security person carrying them over, then being brought in, in a manila envelope. The president signs it, sends it back. So, maybe some of these people, right, to talk about the logistics of the records. But I think you save one or two for after so that you can kind of close full circle your case and establish, this guy knew what was happening. It was done at the behest of him. The records were false. They were fraudulent. There was the nexus between the fraud and their concealment, the conspiracy and the cover up. Have a nice day. Guilty. That's the prosecution side (ph).

RODGERS: So, the social media person is coming back we've been told.

[09:30:00]

BOLDUAN: OK.

RODGERS: The person from the DA's office who put in all of the posts. I guess she's coming back. We may see more of that.

BERMAN: There's always a tweet. There's always a tweet.

SIDNER: One person we know that is not going to be testifying, Karen McDougal.

BERMAN: Right.

SIDNER: Which.