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GOP Allies join Trump in Court; Cohen Back on Stand Today; The Longest Clinical Trial of Weight Loss Drug Results; Louisiana to Reclassify Abortion Drugs; U.S. Weapons Package Arriving in Ukraine; U.S. Says Israel Has Enough Troops Around Rafah for Offensive. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired May 14, 2024 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[08:32:05]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, I'm John Berman, outside the courthouse in lower Manhattan. The criminal trial against Donald Trump, testimony resumes shortly. Michael Cohen will be back on the witness stand facing direct from prosecutors, at least for the morning.

Michael Cohen left his apartment, headed down this way. Donald Trump left his apartment, headed down here this way. When Trump left a little while ago, former presidential candidate Vivek Ramaswamy was with him as well. You get the sense that a lot of people trying to jockey to be here near Donald Trump for this crucial part of the testimony today.

Remember, Donald Trump is charged with falsifying documents to cover up payments to Stormy Daniels, an adult film actress, all to influence the 2016 election. Michael Cohen, so far, has testified that Donald Trump knew about those payments, approved the payments, and knew about the scheme to classify them as legal payments, even though they were not for technically legal services.

When Michael Cohen gets back on the stand shortly, prosecutors no doubt will walk him through more of the timeline, including one meeting we have not yet reached, an Oval Office meeting when Trump was already president, between Michael Cohen and Donald Trump, that we think they discussed the payment plan.

We also expect the prosecution to lay out all of the potential warts that Michael Cohen has, the convictions he has faced, the lies he has told, to get that information out there all before what might be the critical moment of this entire trial, when defense lawyers get their turn at Michael Cohen and try to thoroughly discredit him.

That is what we are standing by here for today.

Sara, back to you.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: And getting ready for some contentious debate back and forth from the stand and the cross-examination.

John Berman, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

All right, next hour, a major show of Republican loyalty for Donald Trump during his criminal trial. A source telling CNN, Republican House Speaker Mike Johnson will join the former president at the Manhattan courthouse this morning. The latest in a string of GOP allies setting foot in court. Also expected, possible VP picks Vivek Ramaswamy. Ramaswamy among the list of contenders hoping to be Trump's running mate, who have shown up to support Trump at his hush money trial.

Joining me now is CNN political commentator and Democratic strategist, Maria Cardona, and former Trump White House communications director, Mike Dubke.

Thank you both for being here.

Mike, I'm going to start with you.

It appears the courthouse is the hottest ticket in town if you want to be Trump's vice president. We just learned vice presidential -- potential Doug Burgum is showing up as well. And we're hearing Tim Scott is considering showing up. J.D. Vance, we saw him yesterday standing behind Trump. And he also went out to the cameras and did what Donald Trump could not do because of the gag order, attacking the witness.

Let's listen.

[08:35:01]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. J.D. VANCE (R-OH): Does any reasonable, sensible person believe anything that Michael Cohen says? I don't think that they should. And I actually think that his testimony is going to hurt with any reasonable juror. And hopefully we have a few of those.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: We will see what the jurors say. But do you think that this is the new litmus test, if you will, for Trump's potential VPs, one, going out and doing what he can't do, attacking witnesses, and, two, showing up at court with the cameras there showing he's - they're standing right there with him?

MIKE DUBKE, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Well, I think it's a full on pilgrimage. We saw it as a - there was a slow roll as folks were watching how the trial went forward. And as it's become more obvious that the - that the prosecution, frankly, is putting all of its eggs in the Michael Cohen basket, I think other politician have figured that it's a safe place to be.

It's also a place where all the cameras are. So, when I saw Rick Scott the other day, you know, he's running for re-election in Florida. He probably got more attention from his time spent in New York City than he has in campaigning around Florida.

So, right now it's a pilgrimage for a lot of these people.

SIDNER: Maria, I've got to ask you, Speaker Mike Johnson showing up there. He's been hit pretty hard by the far right of the party over his Ukraine - the passing of the Ukraine bill. Why do you think he's in court today? And what do you think that means?

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think it's one of the reasons that you just mentioned, Sara, that he wants to have protection from the MAGA crazy right flank who is going after him in the House for the deals that he is cutting with Democrats. And, frankly, for the fact that in the last vote it was Democrats who came to save him from that crazy right flank.

But I think it also demonstrates, Sara, that Speaker Johnson, along with everyone else who is parading to Donald Trump's side, bending the knee, kissing the ring, assuring him that if they pick - if he picks them to be his VP, they will be the puppet that he wants them to be.

And I think Mike Johnson is in that group as well. Maybe not for VP, but he's assuring him that he will continue to be his puppet in the House of Representatives. And I think for voters what this shows is that this is clearly Donald Trump's party. He is there and whatever he says goes If he says jump, everyone around him says how high. And I don't think that that's going to be a good look for voters seeing Donald Trump in the courtroom every single day going through all of the things that he's accused of and all of their disgusting glory and then you have everyone around him, again, just doing everything that he wants. It's not a good look for him or for the Republican leadership in the House of Representatives. And it's going to give Democrats a key talking point that this is not what the American people deserve.

SIDNER: I do want to ask you about the polling there. The latest polling that we've gotten from "The New York Times" poll. Former President Trump, you know, he's been campaigning at court, shouting about these polls. He's what he said yesterday, saying he was surprised "The New York Times" published this, but they publish polls all the time whether they're in his favor or in Biden's favor.

Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Look, they're doing great. You know why they're doing great? They've kept me here for three and a half, four weeks, instead of campaigning. And yet we still have the best poll numbers, just came out in "The New York Times."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: Mike, you know, you see the polling and the polling is that in five of the swing states, as you heard, Donald Trump is up by a pretty good margin. Does this tell you that voters have bought into the Trump accusations

that this is a politically motivated trial, or that they don't really care, that it done doesn't really matter to voters?

DUBKE: Well, a couple of quick things.

One, I think it's a gross exaggeration to say that the folks going - that the elected officials going to New York, that they're puppets. I think they would be going to a campaign rally in the last three to four weeks. Unfortunately, Donald Trump has had to sit in a courtroom during that period of time and he's now running a presidential campaign from a courtroom. So, you go to where the candidate is, and that happens to be the courtroom. So, one, I wanted to get that - I wanted to say that.

Secondly, yes, I do think you're right, the American people, a lot of what the information that's come out in this trial so far has already been - are known knowns for the American people. They've taken that into account. So, there's no new revelations in this case. And the more that the prosecution relies only on Michael Cohen to try to tie Donald Trump to this case, the more political it looks. And most likely this is the only case we're going to have before the election on November 5th.

SIDNER: Yes, and we should be clear, there were a lot of people testifying, including some of Trump's former aides in the White House.

I do - last word to you, Maria.

The Biden administration - sorry, the campaign has sort of dismissed this poll publicly, but what are they doing privately because it's got hurt?

[08:40:11]

CARDONA: Well, certainly those aren't numbers that you want to see, but what they're doing privately, Sara, is exactly what they should be doing, which is, they're - they have their heads down, they're doing the work, they're going out there, they're talking to voters. And the reason why they are not taking this poll in terms of, you know, hair on fire and they should be panicking is because it's six months out. This is not the only poll out there. In fact, you have other national polls that have shown Joe Biden ahead or the races tied.

And if you even look at this "New York Times" poll, Sara, the likely voters in those swing states have either the race tied or Joe Biden up. And so, again, polls are a snapshot in time. What this campaign is focused on are the issues that are important to voters, continuing to talk about an economy that works for all, continuing to talk about how Donald Trump is an existential threat to our rights and freedoms, reproductive rights, the protection of our democracy. Those are key issues for voter, Sara. And that is going to be what - what people are going to look at in terms of the contrast in November.

SIDNER: And noted that Biden certainly has not talked about the trial against Donald Trump. That is very stark. We can see that. Maria Cardona, thank you so much. And, Mike Dubke, you as well.

Appreciate it.

CARDONA: Thanks, Sara.

SIDNER: Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: So, this morning, a new analysis of the longest clinical trial yet of the weight-loss drug Wegovy is offering up some new insight on the impacts of longer-term use of the medication. It has one cardiologist calling the implications "profound."

CNN's Meg Tirrell has the details for us.

So, Meg, what are you learning from this new analysis of this big clinical trial?

MEG TIRRELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Kate, this is really interesting data, these new analyses. This was a 17,000 person clinical trial. These new analyses look at four years' worth of data of people continuing to take Wegovy. And a lot of people have questions about the long-term safety of these medicines. At least in four years of use we didn't see any new safety concerns. We know that GI issues can be a problem for many people, particularly when they start the drugs. And those were there, but nothing major and new.

In terms of the weight loss seen in the trial, they saw that typically people continue to lose weight for more than a year on Wegovy and then sustain that weight loss on the drug up to four years.

And look at this chart. This is very interesting because it shows the variability in people's responses to taking Wegovy. People generally lost at least 5 percent of their weight. About two-thirds of the people on Wegovy compared with just more than 20 percent for people on placebo. When you get up to 15 percent body weight loss, you've got more than 20 percent of people on the drug, and less than 2 percent of people on placebo.

There were some other really interesting studies about heart benefits in these as well, including that these drugs may work by tamping down inflammation and not just weight loss.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Tamping down inflammation. I mean inflammation is the source of, I have to say, especially having back issues, inflammation is the source of all evil. So, this is potentially very important and good to hear.

It's great to see you, Meg, thank you so much.

So, every day this week we are bringing you stories of people who are "Champions for Change."

This morning we bring you a woman known as "the plant hunter." Her mission, searching the planet for new medicines to fight deadly superbugs.

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CASSANDRA QUAVE, ETHNOBOTANIST, EMORY UNIVERSITY: Plants are everything. They are what provide our food, our housing materials, our musical instruments, our clothing and our medicines.

When I look at a plant, I'm looking to its chemistry and trying to understand the secrets that may unveil new medicines.

The use of plants as medicines goes back to the very origins of humanity. Thirty-four thousand species have been documented as being used in some form of traditional medicine. Yet scientists have only looked at around 1,000 of these plants.

I've traveled to some incredible places across the world in my search for nature's next medicines. We're looking for the next type of antibiotic.

The work that I do is deeply personal to me. I was born with multiple congenital defects of my skeletal system, which required the amputation of my leg at the age of three. I developed a hospital acquired infection that nearly took my life. Luckily, back in the 1980s, we still had antibiotics that worked against some of these really bad bacteria. Today, we're not so fortunate.

CRAIG HOPP, NATIONAL CENTER FOR COMPLEMENTARY AND INTEGRATIVE HEALTH: A lot of our antibiotics have been around for a long time, and the pathogenic bacteria continue to develop resistance to them. Unless you come up with a continuous supply of new antibiotics acting by new mechanisms - it's not just enough to have a new antibiotic.

[08:45:03]

QUAVE: Over a million people die every year due to untreatable infections. And so I've dedicated my life to searching for new medicines from nature to combat the worst of these drug resistant infections.

We collect plants in the field. We pressed them and deposit them into an herbarium, which is like a library of life. We also take samples back to the lab where we pull out the chemistry from the plant. Some of our most exciting discoveries have come from plants like the American Beautyberry, the European Chestnut, and the Brazilian Pepper Tree.

We've discovered molecules in these plants that are very effective in the treatment of the worst drug resistant bacteria, including MERSA, or drug resistant staph.

We've also discovered fascinating molecules from the American Beautyberry plant. These molecules restore the activity of antibiotics against very dangerous, resistant bacteria.

The next phase of our research involves moving these discoveries from the lab to human clinical trials. HOPP: We could see a scenario in 10, 20, 30 years where many

infections are not responsive to any type of antibiotic. And for that reason, Dr. Quave's work is essential to help prevent that from happening.

QUAVE: Around 45 percent of all flowering plants are at risk of extinction. We're losing vast opportunities to alleviate human suffering and to treat disease. This is not just about saving nature for nature's sake, this is about saving humanity.

There's a lot of work that has to be done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Remarkable.

Be sure to tune in Saturday at 9:00 p.m. Eastern for CNN's "Champions for Change" one hour special.

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[08:51:30]

SIDNER: New this morning, Arizona's supreme courts signing off on a 90 day stay on the states revived 1864 abortion ban. The ban has been repealed, as you know, but that repeal does not go into effect until later, meaning the ban could take effect for a brief period. That victory for abortion rights advocates coming as Louisiana lawmakers move to reclassify abortion drugs in that state.

CNN's Dianne Gallagher is joining us now.

Tell us about this new legislation in Louisiana that has to do with one of the most popular ways that people get abortions.

DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Sara. And look, this is proposed legislation right now. It's still working its way through the legislature. But what it would do is essentially classify Misoprostol and Mifepristone a schedule four controlled, dangerous substances. Putting them in the same category as highly regulated drugs like Diazepam and Rohypnol.

This reclassification was added through an amendment to a bill that would have made it a crime to give somebody abortion drugs in medication without their knowledge or consent. Now, a state senator, he's a Republican, Thomas Presley, proposed that legislation he said because his sister was given Misoprostol without her knowledge, against her will. So, this proposed legislation, as amended, would make it a felony, punishable by up to five years in prison, with fines of up to $5,000 for any person found in possession of these drugs without a valid prescription. It does include an exemption for pregnant women in possession of both Mifepristone and Misoprostol if for their own consumption. And doctors, the legislation says, would still be able to prescribe the drugs.

But, look, medical professionals worry that this could make it more difficult for them to prescribe this for things like ulcers, miscarriages, and to - and to induce labor. Plus, look, this ads stigma and confusion they say. In a letter obtained by CNN, 270 Louisiana physicians, health care providers, and medical students criticized this amendment, saying in part, quote, "neither Mifepristone nor Misoprostol have been shown to have any potential for abuse, dependence, public health risks, nor high rates of adverse side effects." They warn that classifying these drugs as scheduled for substances, "creates the false perception that these are dangerous drugs that require additional regulation."

Now, look, Presley responded telling CNN that the legislation doesn't stop these drugs from being dispense or prescribed for legitimate reasons.

Sara, they must still pass this by the full house in Louisiana by June 3rd. And at that point it would go to the Republican governor, Governor Landry's desk, to determine if he would sign it into law.

SIDNER: Dianne Gallagher, another rung in sort of the battle over abortion across the country.

Thank you so much. I appreciate the reporting.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Secretary of State Tony Blinken on the ground in Kyiv meeting with Ukraine's president to show U.S. - that U.S. support remains firm, saying U.S. aid is here to stay. Blinken announcing that pieces of the new weapons package have started to arrive with much more on the way.

And this is Blinken's first trip to Ukraine since Congress finally broke through that six month long blockade against approving the aid.

And it comes as Ukraine is suffering new setbacks on the northeastern front. Russia launched surprise incursions across the border this weekend, forcing Ukrainian forces already spread thin to stretch to defend even more.

[08:55:03]

Joining me right now is retired General David Petraeus. Also, of course, a former director of the CIA.

General, thank you for your time.

Let's start in Ukraine. Blinken is there as a show of support from the U.S. CNN's reporting though is that the way it's put is Russia has momentum unlike anything seen since March of '22.

Do you think the six-month delay by Washington to approve sending over ammunition and weapons is why Ukraine's forces are losing ground now?

GEN. DAVID PETRAEUS (RET.), FORMER CIA DIRECTOR: Well, it's a very important reason why. There's also been a bit of a lag in Ukraine's development of a new conscription policy so that they could get on with force generation. They've now done that as well, but they also had a long, emotional debate in their congress, in their parliament, before that took place, just as we did, of course, in the House, as you noted, for nearly half a year.

BOLDUAN: Just before Blinken arrived, Ukraine's top general said that the situation in northern - in the northern Kharkiv region has significantly worsened and the head of Ukraine's military intelligence agency told "The New York Times" in a new interview, "the situation is on the edge. Every hour the situation moves toward critical."

I mean Kharkiv is Ukraine's second largest city and seeing, you know, new pressure heading towards it. Do you think Ukraine can hold if this surprise incursion by Russia continues to prove successful?

PETRAEUS: Well, I think they may have to give up a bit more ground. And the worry is that Russia could once again be within artillery range of Kharkiv, in which case they're literally going to dismantle it piece by piece. They are already using the so-called glide bombs. These are bombs that Russia can launch from its airspace. And, of course, we won't allow them to use our systems in Russian territory or above it.

So, this is a fraught moment. And if they can get to that range, again, the use of artillery is going to be absolutely devastating, as it was, of course, when Kharkiv was nearly encircled before, but was able to fight that off. And then to regain the territory right up to their own border.

BOLDUAN: Right.

On Israel's war against Hamas, Joe Biden's warning that he will stop sending bombs and artillery if Israel launches a major ground operation in Rafah, what did you think of that warning and the - and what do you think the impact of this now red line will be?

PETRAEUS: Well, I'm not sure it's going to be that substantial. Prime Minister Netanyahu replied that Israel is going to fight on with whatever it has. And it has a lot.

Look, I believe that Israel does need to destroy Hamas. I believe their equivalent to the Islamic state. They're an irreconcilable extremist organization. And also to ensure that Hamas can never again govern the territory.

That said, how they do it is hugely important. And that's really the issue here. It's a concern by the administration that civilians and infrastructure and so forth will be damaged, destroyed, killed and that this could plant the seeds of Hamas 2.0. And, in fact, the challenge that Israel has is that it is destroying these individual battalions. There's maybe four of 24 that are left. And they are in the Rafah area, hence the need to go in there. But they are then leaving these areas. They are clearing and moving on rather than clearing and holding and rebuilding.

And I think it's very important that they announce that they're going to explicitly make life better for the civilians in Gaza, that they clear an area and then try to hold it to keep the enemies from coming back in among the people. They're back into northern Gaza now, where the enemy was able to reconstitute. They had to go back into al Shifa Hospital, because Hamas was able to reconstitute their some months after they originally cleared it.

So, they've got to look very carefully at their campaign design. And again, how they carry out these operations. Absolutely minimum to keep to a minimum the innocent loss of life and the damage to infrastructure.

BOLDUAN: You talked about the - you talked about this with Max Boot in a new column I thought was really interesting in how the clear and leave strategy will not work.

How does this compare - how does this fight compare, and this strategy and what you see, to what you faced in commanding U.S. forces in Iraq? Because I've seen a lot of the conversation, after Biden's warning, as some people thinking Biden, as they describe it, learning from the mistakes of the - of Iraq and Afghanistan.

PETRAEUS: Well, I would contend that we got it right in Iraq during the surge. And really for the three-and-a-half years after the 18 months of the surge. We explicitly went back to living among the people, created gated communities to keep al Qaeda out of the areas, and so forth.

But I also note in that interview that Gaza is tougher than Fallujah or Ramadi, Mosul, Bucuba (ph) and all the others put together because of the 350 miles of very well-developed tunnels and subterranean infrastructure used by Hamas. So, this is a fiendishly more difficult situation.

[09:00:03]

An enemy who hides among civilians and so forth.

But clear, hold, build, I think is the answer.