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Petro Poroshenko is Interviewed about the War in Ukraine; Michael Tyler is Interviewed about Presidential Debates; Kiera Spann is Interviewed about TikTok Lawsuit. Aired 9:30-10a ET
Aired May 15, 2024 - 09:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[09:30:27]
SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: This morning, a critical moment in the war in Ukraine. Overnight, Russia launched another round of ground and air attacks on northern Kharkiv as it expanded its surprise cross-border offensive. Officials say about 8,000 people have now been evacuated from the area.
Joining me now is Petro Poroshenko, former president of Ukraine.
Sir, thank you so much for joining us.
I know you're there near the front lines in Kharkiv. You had been certain that Ukraine could win the war. But with this loss of territory and with this barrage coming from Russia, do you still believe that Ukraine can win this war?
PETRO POROSHENKO, FORMER PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE: Undoubtedly. And not only me. All Ukrainian people. All the people of the free world have - don't have any doubts about our victory.
I just want to have an evidence that the Russia, having the whole efforts to gain more territory, have progress for two years one kilometer, two kilometer. This is completely ruin all Putin plan. And this is really difficulties. Big difficulties for Ukrainian people, for our company, for our society, for the whole world.
This morning, couple hours ago, I would turn back to Kyiv from both charts (ph). Now, this is the town same famous like previously Avdiivka, Bahamut, Bucha, Marinka (ph). This is a disaster there. The town is completely destroyed. Before the war it was almost 20,000 people live their. Now the finish, the evacuation of people from there.
And I was in there (INAUDIBLE). I have a meeting with our soldiers. They are definitely need more air defense, more artillery, more electronic warfare system. And, unfortunately, the are delayed. In December 2023, the aid definitely has its consequences (ph) and Ukraine pay for that already with the life of our soldiers and the kilometers of our territory. And Ukraine cannot help man (ph) Russia, but together. Together we definitely get outgoing (ph) Russia (ph) (INAUDIBLE).
SIDNER: Mr. Poroshenko, you spoke about the aid. There was a long delay while Congress fought over this. Some of the congress members, the far-right republic - of the Republican Party trying to stop aid to Ukraine.
When you see what happened, that it was eventually passed, but many, many months later, can you count on US aid, do you think, for the rest of this war? Because I know that President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has asked for more. Tony Blinken, the secretary of state, was there in Kyiv promising that more aid would come. But do you think you can count on the United States for the rest of the war?
POROSHENKO: That's the full (ph) I don't agree, that either Ukraine or President Zelenskyy asked to aid. This is not an aid. This is investment in your security. In the security of every American citizen, no matter if it is Republican or Democrat. This is their investment for storming - stopping that crazy maniac Putin. And if we do not destroy him in Ukraine, tomorrow Russian missile can be anywhere in the world. That's why this is the fact, together, shoulder to shoulder, we should stop Putin.
And the visit of the Secretary Blinken now is definitely very important. The message that we will have 2 billion U.S. dollar for air defense, for the system of Patriot, this is the (INAUDIBLE). And we welcoming secretary and I hope that this visit was just in preparation for the next visit. And this visit, we waiting the President Biden. I know him very well because when I was a president became a very close cooperation and the role of President Biden was extremely important. And I want to thank him for the great leadership then and now. And I think that would be extremely symbolic if Biden can visit here before or immediately after the jubilee, 75th anniversary summit, which take place in Washington, summit of NATO, where we definitely think that it is vital thing for Ukraine, including possible invitation Ukraine to make.
[09:35:20]
Because everybody should know, without Ukrainian membership in NATO would be definitely no peace. It would bring definitely no sort of the war. And this is the investment of full NATO member states in their sustainable security situation on the content (ph) of (ph) and sustainable security situation in the world. There no victory against Russia would be final without Ukraine during NATO.
SIDNER: So, it sounds like you would really like to see President Biden there in Ukraine at some point, and also the, as you called it, the help from the United States as well.
Petro Poroshenko, thank you so much. I appreciate you speaking to us there from Kharkiv, which has lost some ground to Russia in the recent fighting.
John.
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, the breaking news this morning, President Biden challenges Donald Trump to debates as soon as June. Donald Trump responds. He says he is ready. What is the campaign calculus here?
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BERMAN: All right, just tell me when and I'll be there. So, Donald Trump just accepted President Biden's challenge to debate one-on-one. Trump posted online saying, I'm ready and willing to debate. He says he'd rather have it at a large venue and he wants more than two debates.
With us now is the communications director for the Biden campaign, Michael Tyler.
Michael, great to see you.
So, I think Donald Trump just said yes to President Biden's proposal. So, what now?
MICHAEL TYLER, COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR FOR BIDEN 2024 CAMPAIGN: Yes, I mean, Donald Trump says a lot of things. We'll see if he actually shows up. What the president communicated this morning, and what this campaign is proposing, is that we have two debates, one in June and one in September. I think we're ready to go. The American people deserve to see both of these candidates argue their case on the merits well before people actually go and cast their ballots. We believe that when people see Joe Biden vs Donald Trump, there'll be able to see the very stark choice between the president, who's been fighting for the American people since the day he took office, and Donald Trump, who's campaign of revenge and retribution will be on full display for the American people to see and reject once again.
So, we're excited to get this going.
BERMAN: So you say no live audience. You want it in a television studio without an audience. Does that mean if the Trump campaign insists on an audience, no deal?
TYLER: Listen, I think the Trump campaign made their proposal very clear when Donald Trump said he'd be willing to debate anytime, anywhere, any place. And so what we want, and what we have laid out, is that we want to do this sooner rather than later. We should do it in June after his criminal trial is likely to have concluded and after the president returns from the G-7 Summit. It should be, yes, in studio, with no audience, so that the candidates can clearly articulate their visions for the country, free of distraction, free of (INAUDIBLE) and then we should -
BERMAN: Is an audience - is an audience a deal breaker? Is it - is an - is an audience a deal breaker for you?
TYLER: Listen, it's Donald Trump who said he would do this anytime, anywhere, any place. So, I don't think that they should have any problems with what we have proposed. He's the one who said he's ready to go. So, we should be set to go once we have proposals in from networks. We're excited to debate. The question is, will Donald Trump accept it?
BERMAN: I just issued a proposal right here. We'll do it right here on CNN NEWS CENTRAL. Happy - happy to oblige.
No third party candidate. What if RFK is at 15 percent? Robert Kennedy Jr. at 15 percent in September. You still don't think he should be on the stage?
TYLER: No, listen, the reality here is that there are two candidates with a pathway to 270 electoral votes. That's President Joe Biden, and that's Donald Trump. And the American people deserve to hear from them because that is the reality that we're facing. That is the choice in this election. So, we should have a debate between the two candidates on the issues. Joe Biden will articulate his historic record of accomplishment, his vision for the future, and Donald Trump will go out here and try to explain why he's bragging about overturning Roe v. Wade, why he's trying to rebuild an economy that only works for rich people like himself, why he's trying to rule as a dictator on day one. That's the debate that the American people deserve to see in prime time. And that's what we're proposing.
BERMAN: So, in the video that President Biden released, President Biden talking - one of the last things he said to Donald Trump was, I hear you're free on Wednesdays.
What was that?
TYLER: That's a statement of fact. Donald Trump is free on Wednesdays. And so if he wants to do it on a Wednesday in June, after his trial has concluded, or even before, like we are ready to go. And so the question for Donald Trump is, like, will you accept the terms? And that's what we're prepared to do.
BERMAN: Has President Biden begun debate prep yet?
TYLER: Don't have anything to read you out on insofar as any prep. I can say right now that we are ready to debate in June. We are ready to debate in September because the American people deserve to see this.
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So, we are ready to go. We're waiting for proposals. And we will accept them when we have some that fit what we have laid out this morning.
BERMAN: Do you have a negotiator assigned yet?
TYLER: Again, I don't have too many details to read out other than what we have clearly articulated in the letter from Jen O'Malley Dillon to the debate commission that we've shared widely with folks. And so those are the metrics that we have laid out, that we're prepared to go forward with. I think the question now becomes, will the Trump campaign agree to these specific proposals that we have laid out with. If so, we are ready to go. BERMAN: All right. Well, we are standing by for more information on
this. Perhaps changing some of our calendars for the month of June.
Michael Tyler, great to see you. Thank you very much.
TYLER: Thanks for having me.
BERMAN: Sara.
SIDNER: All right, coming up next, her TikTok content got her invited to the White House, but now she, among other creators, are suing the government over that potential ban of the app.
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KIERA SPANN, TIKTOK CREATOR SUING U.S. GOVERNMENT OVER POTENTIAL APP BAN: Freedom of speech is not just being able to say whatever you want, but it's being able to access whatever information you want. And a TikTok ban will silence that.
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SIDNER: This morning, a new development in a legal battle over the wildly popular app TikTok. Eight content creators are now suing the government saying the new bipartisan law that threatens to ban the app is unconstitutional. That is on top of the lawsuit the social media company itself filed after President Biden signed that bill into law last month.
One of the content creators taking her case to court is Kiera Spann, who gained a following while in college posting about women's rights and politics. She even began invite - was invited to the White House because of her activism on TikTok. But now she's up against the Biden administration over this new law.
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KIERA SPANN, TIKTOK CREATOR SUING U.S. GOVERNMENT OVER POTENTIAL APP BAN: Thousands of people in our communities showing up in huge numbers. And because of that, we were able to change safety lights on my campus, create new safety initiatives for fraternities and sororities on my campus, introduce new Title Nine legislation into my state, starts survivor support groups, all of which never would have happened without an application like TikTok.
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SIDNER: Kiera Spann is joining us now.
Thank you so much for taking the time this morning, Kiera.
I do want to ask you, why are you going after the U.S. government over this potential ban? It's only of TikTok doesn't sell, which they say they won't. Why are you going after them? And what is the argument that you are making here?
KIERA SPANN, TIKTOK CREATOR SUING U.S. GOVERNMENT OVER POTENTIAL APP BAN: Well, the first thing I want to say, thank you for having me on, is that this definitely isn't a condiment about TikTok potentially being sold. It's not a divestment bill. The authors of the bill have said multiple times that this is about TikTok being banned. They don't have enough time to potentially sell. And if they were to sell, the app just wouldn't be the same. There's something about TikTok that it is controlled by the people. It's one of the only applications where politicians aren't able to promote, that people control the algorithm. So, my community would be completely shifted. I've created a community of sexual assault survivors and domestic violence survivors on my page. It's something that can't be replicated on other - any other social media platform. And it would just be completely devastated if this app was changed. And so that's what I'm fighting for. I'm not fighting for myself, I'm fighting for that community that I've cultivated.
SIDNER: I want to ask you about what lawmakers have said about TikTok. Do you worry at all about lawmaker saying, look, there are some risks of using TikTok. Number one, that it collects an excessive amount of information from its users and that TikTok could be used by the Chinese government to spy on - on you and to surveil you if you use the app. Of course, TikTok denies those things. But what do you - what do you - do worry about that at all?
SPANN: I'm absolutely an advocate for a data privacy bill if it were to cover all social media applications and platforms. I mean we had an app - an issue with Meta back in 2016 where we know they sold our data to foreign agencies. We had Cambridge Analytica, right? TikTok has invested billions of dollars into Project Texas. All of our U.S. data is stored here in the United States. So, if it's an issue of data privacy, I would fully support an application that covered all social medias. But when it just targets one platform, it is not a concern enough for me that covers our free speech rights. When it's - it's taking away my free speech, it's taking away all of my followers and all of Americans' free speech rights to access information, to consume information, to share information freely, when it's just targeting TikTok, to me that is not enough of a concern when I'm more concerned about my data being sold on applications that has already proven that they have sold their data to foreign agencies in the past.
SIDNER: And you - you're making the argument there that this is information that should be free and available, which is what the lawsuit is - is all about.
Can - can you tell me how you started using TikTok as a tool? I know you started using it as a student at the University of Delaware.
SPANN: Yes. So, I was at college. I studied political science in school. And I realized that the information that I was receiving and school was a lot less biased than all of the information that was out during the 2020 election. [09:55:01]
And so I wanted to use my platform to educate people about what I was learning and let people be informed and mobilize voters.
And I mobilized tens of thousands of people to vote in the 2020 election. It was hugely important for both people that are currently in Congress and our current walking - sitting president. I mobilized people to vote for him. And I also currently use it to educate people. It's a hugely important platform for education.
And then on my college campus there was a very brutal domestic violence incident and I used TikTok to bring awareness to that incident that was swept under the rug by my university. And in doing so, we were able to bring huge changes to my college community. Based on my TikTok video that you showed a minute ago, we changed IFC fraternity laws, and changes in Greek life. We brought support groups to my campus and none of that we would have been able to do without TikTok. So, it's a hugely important platform.
SIDNER: I just have a very, very quick question. Will you, again, go and try to get people to vote for Biden after what has happened here?
SPANN: That's a great question. I think that campaigns in general are going to be hurting because of this election, not even just specifically Biden, but people use TikTok to share information about elections. They use information to share about policies and specifics about elections in general.
So, I think that not all elections are going to be hurting this year.
SIDNER: Not - so not a yes or - you haven't answered the question. Not a yes or no.
SPANN: Yes.
SIDNER: But thank you so much for joining us. We appreciate it.
SPANN: Thank you.
BERMAN: All right, CNN NEWSROOM with Jim Acosta up next.
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