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2024 U.S. General Election; Showdown Set: Biden, Trump to Face Off at CNN Debate; Stock Markets Rise After New Inflation Report; $1 Billion Weapons Deal for Israel; Stocks Rally After Inflation Cools Off in April; Cohen Retakes the Stand Tomorrow for More Grilling from Defense; Hush Money Trial Continues Tomorrow, Trump Will Attend Fundraising Events; Tomorrow, Michael Cohen's Cross-Examination by Trump's Attorneys Will Continue; Newly Declassified Intelligence Says Russia is Ratcheting Up Efforts to Discredit Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy. Aired 1-1:30p ET
Aired May 15, 2024 - 01:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[13:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Rematch, after years of insults, name calling and attacks, President Biden and his Republican rival Donald Trump agreeing to a showdown right here on CNN's debate stage.
Plus, stocks popping off on a new report that inflation slowed in April now hope is building that the Fed may lower interest rates. We're watching Wall Street as markets rise.
ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: And as President Joe Biden pressures Israel not to invade Rafah, he's also preparing a billion-dollar weapons deal for Israel. We're following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to "CNN News Central."
And we do start with some breaking news. The 2024 race for the White House is coming to a stage near you and near us very, very soon. President Joe Biden and Former President Donald Trump have both just accepted CNN's invitation to debate next month on June 27th.
Just today, the Biden campaign challenged Trump to two presidential debates hosted by news organizations in June and then in September.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: Donald Trump lost two debates to me in 2020. And since then, he hasn't shown up for debates. Now, he's acting like he wants to debate me again. Well, make my day, pal. I'll even do it twice. So, let's pick the dates, Donald. I hear you're free on Wednesdays.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: A lot of scathing humor coming from the White House and President Biden today, we should say. Now, Trump responded to Biden's call out shortly after he said, "I am ready and willing to debate Crooked Joe at the two proposed times in June and September. Just tell me when, I'll be there. Let's get ready to rumble."
Let's get straight to CNN's MJ Lee at the White House. I mean, MJ, it kind of sounds more like WWE than presidential politics. I mean, John Cena will not be moderating, we know that much. What else can you tell us about the CNN debate?
MJ LEE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Brianna, for two men who typically agree on so little, Joe Biden and Donald Trump very quickly agreeing this morning to two presidential debates. The first one will be hosted by CNN on June 27th, the second one by ABC News on September 10th.
And I just want to do a recap quickly of how unusual all of these circumstances are. For one, both campaigns basically shunned the schedule that was set forth by the Commission on Presidential Debates. They basically agreed that the idea that the first general election debate would be in September is just way too late. Both campaigns, saying that they want to be able to reach voters a lot earlier in the cycle than September.
And also, in fact, we were told on this that there were some informal and back-channel conversations that took place between the two campaigns that largely had to do with their mutual disdain for the CPD. When it comes to that CNN debate on June 27, there is going to be no live audience. That, of course, is quite unusual.
And what the Biden campaign, for its part, had said was that they see the debates in recent years have -- as having become huge spectacles, and that the audience had become a big distraction. You have to think that the possibility of protests in a live audience had to be a part of the thinking there.
Now, The Biden campaign clearly wanted to use the debate, about the debates to try to go on the offensive. They wanted to be first to offer these earlier debates for the Trump campaign to basically accept. And also, there have been these not-so-subtle references to the fact that Donald Trump, for so many weeks, has been stuck in a courtroom. We saw President Biden saying earlier, I hear you're free on Wednesdays.
Now, lastly, just on the question of whether anybody else might be joining the two men on stage for the CNN debate that's coming up in June, you have to qualify by appearing on a sufficient number of state ballots. And also, secondly, you have to have at least 15 support in the polls for polls that meet CNN standards for reporting.
Now, we did see Robert F. Kennedy very quickly, saying that he sees this as a part of the effort to exclude him from debating President Biden and Former President Donald Trump.
[13:05:00]
MARQUARDT: All right. A punchy Joe Biden there in that campaign video as he needles the former president. MJ Lee at the White House. Thanks very much.
For the Trump perspective, let's bring in CNN's Alayne Treene. So, Alayne, we just read some of what the former president himself said about being ready to debate. What's the campaign saying?
ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: They are. They are very eager to debate, and you could see that clearly in the reaction from they -- them today. But look, I mean, a lot of the things laid out in that Biden proposal were exactly the same things that Donald Trump and his campaign want. They want these debates to be earlier. That's a key thing. They have argued repeatedly.
We saw this from Donald Trump's co-campaign managers, Susie Wiles and Chris LaCivita. They had written the Commission on Presidential Debates weeks ago and repeatedly really asking for more debates and for them to be earlier. And the whole thought about that is that, you know, if you get too close to the election, many people already cast their votes by then. They have this big focus on early voting, and they want to have these debates before that begins.
The other part of this is, as MJ pointed out, there had been some back channeling between the Biden campaign and the Trump campaign about really trying to circumvent the CPD. They have a mutual disdain for the Commission on Presidential Debates, and that's really what led them to some of these informal discussions, we're told, behind the scenes.
Now, we did see Joe Biden have some choice words for Donald Trump this morning in challenging him to these debates. We heard similar language from the former president. Take a listen to what he told Hugh Hewitt this morning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND U.S. REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Oh, absolutely. I've been trying to get -- you know, he's issuing it. I wonder whether or not he shows up because, you know, he also challenged me to golf. So, I'm a very good golfer. He can't hit a ball 50 yards. He said, I'll give him three a side, but he knows he'll never play. This is sort of like that, I think. But I hope not, because I really think he has to debate. He might as well get it over with. Probably should do it early so that he can, you know -- because he's not going to get any better so long --
HUGH HEWITT, HOST, "THE HUGH HEWITT SHOW": No, that -- but June and September --
TRUMP: Every day --
HEWITT: -- is great --
TRUMP: -- every day is a down factor for him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TREENE: So, a lot of taunting there from the former president. Look, we also heard Donald Trump and his campaign call for four debates rather than just the two that the Biden team had laid out. And this aligns up with what I've been told from Donald Trump's advisers. They want to have this -- have as many debates as possible.
And part of that reasoning and thinking is that they really believe that if they can get these two men on stage that Joe Biden will seem like the weaker candidate, that will appear more feeble. And so, they're very eager to have this matchup between the two men.
KEILAR: Well, the trash talk sure is something. Alayna Treene, thank you so much for that.
Let's talk about this now with CNN's Chris Wallace. He is, of course, the host of "Who's Talking to Chris Wallace?" on Max and the "Chris Wallace Show", which is Saturday mornings here on CNN. And you moderated two debates with Donald Trump, one with Hillary Clinton, one with Joe Biden. And I just wonder though, this sort of run up that you're seeing with all of this trash talk, what do you think this portends for what the debate will bring?
CHRIS WALLACE, CNN HOST, "WHO'S TALKING TO CHRIS WALLACE?": Well, having, as you say, moderated the 2020 debate and in which Trump interrupted Biden and me 145 times in 90 minutes, I hope we don't have a repeat of that.
I find, to me, the big story here today, obviously, is they're debating. But the fact that Biden came out and how -- this is utterly extraordinary. Remember, since 1960, there hasn't been a general election presidential debate before September. Now, it's -- the sitting president is talking about June, my reaction is he knows that he's in trouble right now.
You had "The New York Times" polls this week that showed him traveling -- trailing in five of the six battleground states. I think he needs and feels he needs to change the arc of how this campaign is going right now. Oftentimes elections aren't decided. And, you know, post Labor Day, they're often decided in the late spring or early summer. I think Biden thinks, I got to have this debate now. I've got to ease people's concerns about my competence. Try to really make the case against Trump, and change the whole dynamic of how this campaign is going.
MARQUARDT: Let's play a clip from that 2020 debate that you moderated between these two men, which will of course be a matchup next month.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: That is --
TRUMP: What did he do with Burisma--
BIDEN: -- none of that --
TRUMP: -- to deserve $183,000 --
BIDEN: -- is true. WALLACE: Sir, you've asked him a question, let him answer it.
BIDEN: Not -- none of that is true.
TRUMP: Oh really, he didn't get $3.5 million?
WALLACE: But no -- Mr. President.
BIDEN: It's totally --
WALLACE: Mr. President, please --
BIDEN: -- Totally discredited.
WALLACEL: You've asked the question --
BIDEN: -- totally discredited. Totally discredited. And by the way --
TRUMP: Well, wait, he didn't get $3.5 million, Joe?
WALLACE: Mr. Vice --
TRUMP: He got $3.5 million.
WALLACE: -- Mr. President --
BIDEN: It is not true.
TRUMP: Oh, really?
WALLACE: Mr. President, it's an open discussion. Please --
Trump: It's a fact.
WALLACE: Well --
BIDEN: It is not a fact.
WALLACE: -- you have raised an issue, let the Vice President answer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[13:10:00]
MARQUARDT: Chris, that was a very, very tough job that you handled very well. It's your point there about interruption. So, in this rematch, what do you think would be the best approach for whoever ends up moderating this debate?
WALLACE: Well, one of the things that Biden has said, I don't know whether CNN has agreed to it or not, is that when it's not your time, when you're not talking, that your mic will be cut off. The problem is that when you have, as you saw in that debate, a free flow conversation. It isn't like I'm getting two minutes to talk and then you get two minutes. It's pretty hard to turn the mic on and off because you're hoping to engage them. To me, one of the other really interesting things we haven't talked about enough is, are the other networks going to carry the debate? Yes, CNN will obviously conduct it. I'm sure we'll make it available to everybody else. But, you know, are our competitors on cable? Are the broadcast networks?
The reason that they get such huge numbers, I think both of my debates got over 80 million, was because of the fact you couldn't miss it. It was on every channel. Will it be on every channel? Will ABC, NBC, Fox, MSNBC take the CNN debate? That makes it a very different experience if it's just wall to wall coverage on every broadcast outlet.
KEILAR: And what about the fact that there will be no in-person audience? And you can really speak to this, having been in that room, what that may change about the dynamic for the candidates and also for what people are seeing on TV?
WALLACE: I actually think that's overstated. I mean, having done two debates, that world, that stage with the two candidates about 10 feet apart at the podiums, and then the moderator about 10 or 12 feet away from both of them in the middle, it's very much contained. Nobody is paying attention or playing to the crowd.
Now, yes, sometimes the crowd intervened, and you'd have to, as the moderator, try to get them to be quiet. I think it's better without the crowd. I felt that for some period of time. Go back to the Kennedy-Nixon debates in 1960, four of them. No crowd, just in a television studio. I think it will make it a cleaner, purer experience.
But in terms of the candidates, I don't think it makes much difference, because you are so focused on what you're saying and what the other guy is about to say and what the moderator is going to ask that you're not sitting there playing to the crowd like it's a rally.
KEILAR: Yes, that's so interesting. Well, this may be a little bit of a throwback to the Nixon-Kennedy debates, but there will be some startling differences as well. Chris, it's so great to get your thoughts on this. Thank you so much, Chris Wallace.
MARQUARDT: Thanks.
WALLACE: Thank you.
KEILAR: The Dow is on the verge of a major milestone. Stocks pushing higher after a new report shows inflation cooled last month. Is this the nudge the Fed needs to cut interest rates?
Plus, what will Michael Cohen say next on the witness stand? We're going to preview the strategy for the Trump defense team during round two of cross-examination.
MARQUARDT: And also ahead, new reporting on how Russia has been stepping up its disinformation campaign to discredit Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy. I have new exclusive reporting, that's ahead. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[13:15:00]
MARQUARDT: A new inflation report is out, and there's good news and bad news. Prices are still rising, but at a slower pace, and grocery store prices are falling.
KEILAR: Yes, that's some good news. Consumer prices rose 3.4 percent over the past 12 months, ending in April. That is down a bit from 3.5 percent in March.
CNN Reporter Matt Egan has been digging into the numbers. All right. Matt, first talk to us about how the markets are reacting to this.
MATT EGAN, CNN BUSINESS AND ECONOMY REPORTER: Well, Brianna, Alex, investors are loving it because this does keep alive hopes for interest rate cuts later this year. The S&P 500 and Nasdaq are on track to close at record highs. And look at that, the Dow is just 150 points away from crossing the 40,000 level for the first time ever.
Now, I do think that the latest inflation report, it's not just good news for "Wall Street", it's also good news for Main Street. We learned that consumer prices, as you mentioned, up by 3.4 percent year over year in April. Now, that's not great. It's still above the pre- COVID trend, but this is an improvement from the month before. And of course, it is miles away from that spike on the middle of your screen there, back two years ago when we had nine percent inflation.
And when you dig into the numbers, there are some other positives here as well. We saw that grocery prices fell month over month. Prices also dropped for new cars, used cars and airfare. Also core inflation, which excludes food and energy, this was the slowest annual rate for core inflation in exactly three years.
So, I think if you put all of this together, it shows that inflation has not been solved, right? This problem has not been fixed, but we are seeing some signs of improvement. And that does raise the possibility that the Fed can start to give borrowers a break on very high interest rates. Probably not at the next meeting in June, maybe not in July, but maybe this is something that could happen in September or later this year. And of course, that would be good news for everyone who's dealing with very high rates right now, for mortgages, car loans, and credit cards.
KEILAR: Yes, we want it now though. It's house buying season, Matt Egan. Didn't you know? Don't they know? All right. Matt, thank you so much for taking us through that. We appreciate it.
EGAN: Thank you.
MARQUARDT: Now, Donald Trump has been hammering President Joe Biden over inflation, but at the moment, of course, he has his own legal problems to worry about. Today, Wednesday, is the regular day off from his criminal hush money trial, and Trump is set to attend two fundraisers. [13:20:00]
And while he's back on the campaign trail, his defense attorneys have the day to scour court transcripts, going through the eight hours that principal witness Michael Cohen was on the stand. Asked -- answering prosecutors questions in which he directly connected Trump to the hush money. Now, Trump's attorneys will be resuming their cross-examination of Cohen when he's back in court tomorrow.
Joining me now is Criminal Defense Attorney David Oscar Markus. David, thanks so much for being with us. So, if you are Trump's lead attorney, Todd Blanche, what are you doing today to prepare for tomorrow?
DAVID OSCAR MARKUS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, they're going to spend the day really digging in about how they want to start tomorrow and end tomorrow. They want to start really strong and end strong.
And if I was Todd Blanche, I would start with the question to Michael Cohen, are you an honest person? And then I'd lead him through all of the lies that he's told him. And I think I might end with something like, you know, if you are on the jury, Mr. Cohen, would you believe someone who had lied as much as you did? And so, I would try to dry out all those lies for the jury.
MARQUARDT: And so, Todd Blanche, he asked questions of Cohen for about two and a half hours so far, but he has yet to ask Cohen about the actual business documents that were allegedly falsified to cover up this hush money. So, when do you expect that to happen? And what issues, do you think, the defense has to highlight to the jurors?
MARKUS: No, it's a really great point. I think the defense needs to drill down tomorrow on exactly that because they can't make the case about Stormy Daniels. The case isn't about whether President Trump had sex with Stormy Daniels. It's not about whether they paid Stormy Daniels. It's about whether these business records were falsified.
So, they have to -- the defense has to tie into that theme and show that these lies are related to the false entries. Otherwise, you know, the defense is going to fall flat. They have to tie it into the false entries and that's what you're going to see, I think, most of the day tomorrow.
MARQUARDT: There was so much anticipation for Michael Cohen being on the stand, of course he's back on it tomorrow. But if he were your client, how do you think he's been doing under cross-examination so far?
MARKUS: Well, Michael Cohen, despite the tons of baggage, has remained pretty calm. Now, Blanche did score some points, but, you know, the defense is going to want to get under his skin. They're going to want to get him angry and talking and off of those rehearsed lines.
I might ask him, why did you write the book -- why did you title the book, "Revenge"? And maybe it should have been titled, "Rehearsed." I would try to stick him with some zingers because I think you could get him animated, and you want him talking. You want him animated. That's where you're going to get the jury to, I think, dislike him.
MARQUARDT: And he is the prosecution's final witness. So, do you think that by that point, by the time that they're done with him, they'll have proven their case?
MARKUS: Well, they still -- this is the big point, right? They have to prove that Trump knew about these false entries, that he was involved with these false entries. They only have Michael Cohen. So, it's all going to come down to him. If I was the defense, I'd try to narrow the issues, not make it about the other witnesses, make it about Michael Cohen. And in summation, spend most of my time saying why you can't believe this guy.
MARQUARDT: Yes. And to that point, is there a chance that jurors do find that there's evidence that Trump falsified documents to hide information from voters? And still determine that the offenses do not rise to a felony offense in New York. That the alleged crime should have been prosecuted at the federal level and years ago.
MARKUS: Sure. You know, jurors are told that they'll never be questioned about their verdict, that they can reach a verdict based on anything they want. The lawyers are not permitted to argue things not in evidence or nullification, those types of things. But this is an odd one because there's going to be that undercurrent of the political prosecution and those types of things.
So, you know, the jurors are going to be free to find however they want and nobody can ever second guess them on that.
MARQUARDT: All right. Another big day back in court in Manhattan tomorrow. David Oscar Markus, thanks very much for your time and your thoughts today.
MARKUS: Thank you for having me.
MARQUARDT: And the White House is moving forward with a new plan to send $1 billion worth of military aid to Israel. Now, this comes despite Israel not backing down yet from its military operation in Rafah.
We'll be speaking with the vice chair, a vice chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus for his reaction, that's next.
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[13:25:00]
MARQUARDT: Breaking news now. Some newly declassified intelligence shared with CNN says that Russia is ratcheting up its efforts to discredit Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and raise questions about his legitimacy.
For the past several months, Russia has been stepping up its disinformation efforts about Zelenskyy, seizing on various recent events to fuel criticism about his abilities and his place as Ukraine's leader. In an interview, a senior Biden administration official told me that the Russian efforts are, "Definitely increasing" and are, a reflection of Zelenskyy's resilience and his formidability as a leader during this war over the past two years.
There have been two main areas, I'm told, that Russia is pushing this disinformation on, the senior official said. Ukraine's recent, painful withdrawal from the eastern city of Avdiivka, which was a significant setback for Ukraine. And the fact that Ukraine has postponed its presidential election that was scheduled for this year, for this spring, because of Russia's war in Ukraine.
Now, according to U.S. Officials, the Russian intelligence services are helping disseminate this disinformation, but it's also coming from official channels.
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