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Presidential Debate Set; King Charles' First Official Portrait; Manhunt In France; White House Is Potential Deal To Sell $1 Billion Worth Of Weapons To Israel. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired May 15, 2024 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[14:01:50]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: The showdown is set. President Joe Biden and former President Donald Trump have agreed to a debate next month right here on CNN. Everything we know about the upcoming face-off. Plus, an unprecedented manhunt in France after armed men ambushed a prison van and freed the fugitive inside. Hundreds of officers are now searching for a criminal known as the fly.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: And this is the first official portrait of King Charles and it is getting mixed reviews. You might not be surprised what the very, very red picture here is meant to symbolize. We are following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN News Central.

KEILAR: The first 2024 presidential debate is set and you get to see it right here on CNN. President Biden and former President Trump have both accepted CNN's invitation to debate next month on June 27th. Not long after, they both accepted ABC News' invitation to debate on September 10th. And this all started earlier today when Biden kind of threw down a gauntlet here. He challenged Trump to two pre-election showdowns. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: Donald Trump lost two debates to me in 2020. Since then, he hasn't shown up for debate. Now he's acting like he wants to debate me again. Well, make my day, pal. I'll even do it twice. So let's pick the dates, Donald. I hear you're free on Wednesdays.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Biden taking a jab there, needling the former president, talking about Wednesday, which is the fact, which is when the hush money trial is not in session. So an obvious reference to Trump's ongoing legal woes. With us now to discuss this are CNN national correspondent Kristen Holmes and CNN's chief national affairs correspondent Jeff Zeleny. Thank you both for joining us. Kristen, first to you, Trump has posted on social media that he's accepted the invitation to these debates. He's also been proposing more debates. So what more do we know about how this is going to play out? KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, just moments ago, he

posted that he was accepting a third debate invitation this time from Fox News on October 2nd. And just to be clear, Biden said he was going to do two debates. This is clearly Donald Trump trying to take control of the narrative here that really has been largely owned by President Biden so far. But other than the number of debates Donald Trump is proposing for total, Biden is sticking with that two debates. Most of what Biden laid out is what Donald Trump's team has been advocating for and what they were hoping for. They wanted earlier debates citing early voting. They said that they wanted to have these debates before a single ballot was cast. They also wanted a one on one with Joe Biden. They didn't want a third party candidate there. They think that Donald Trump is stronger if he's just going against Joe Biden. So other than just that number of debates, most of this laid out is exactly what Donald Trump's team has been calling for. And I just will remind you, both sides are going to say the same thing. But when I'm talking to Trump advisers, they just believe that he is a stronger debater than Joe Biden. But that comes with him usually just speaking off the cuff, not doing any kind of preparation. So obviously, we're going to see how this plays out.

[14:05:09]

KEILAR: Yeah, no, we really are. And it kind of happened quickly. You know, Joe Biden, trash talk, announcement of a debate, Donald Trump, trash talk. How did we get here?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, I mean, Donald Trump has been laying this out for weeks. I mean, as Kristen knows, by going to rallies, he's been traveling with an empty podium next to him, saying anytime, anyplace. So really, the only missing piece of this puzzle was President Biden. Biden, was he going to accept this or not? And behind the scenes, we've heard from Biden advisors for weeks and more than that, a couple of months, actually, that they knew that they had to debate. Look, he's not in the strongest position in all these battleground states, as we know. So they came to that conclusion.

They thought the idea of not debating would be the story for the rest of the campaign. So they came to that conclusion. And on a Wednesday, when they could sort of own the news a little bit today, they decided to come out early this morning with that taunting video and then followed it up with accepting these debates. Which, of course, all the networks had, you know, thrown out there. Because, again, the only wild card was, was President Biden, when would he do it? Because the Trump campaign has been making no secret about the fact that they wanted to debate. So it came fast, yes. And I think even more important, these will be the earliest debates ever in the history of televised presidential debates.

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: Yeah. Right.

ZELENY: And that could have an impact on the race in some degree. I mean, the first ballots go out in September. So it's not all that early when you think about it in that context. But they were going to be scheduled for. Starting in September, going into October.

TAPPER: And they're going before, obviously, the conventions, before they're the official nominees. They're going around the commission. But, Jeff, we understand that they're also going to be in a studio audience with no audiences. Sorry, in a studio with no audiences.

KEILAR: No studio audiences.

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: No studio audiences.

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KEILAR: It's so strange, right?

ZELENY: Which is strange, but that is how debates began. Back in the first televised debate in a presidential campaign in 1960, the Nixon- Kennedy debate famously was in a studio--

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KEILAR: Because we all remember.

TAPPER: So even I don't remember that, the oldest person at the table here. But, look, history will show that there were obviously no members of the audience there. But after that, once they resumed in 76, there have been audiences at every debate. So we'll see. And we've heard a lot of complaining from the Trump campaign and from the former president himself. He loves an audience, as we all know --

(CROSSTALK)

HOLMES: He lives off an audience.

ZELENY: He feeds off an audience.

(CROSSTALK)

HOLMES: Exactly.

ZELENY: But the rules for the first one, at least, are no audience. And he agreed to it.

TAPPER: Yeah, I mean, so often he plays to that crowd. We just had, you know, we were speaking with Chris Wallace last and he was saying that he hopes that the mics will get turned off when the other candidate is speaking. So it remains to be seen what the rules are. But certainly a lot coalescing around these debates. Jeff Zeleny, Kristen Holmes, thank you both so much. Joining me now is Philippe Reines. He's a former advisor to Hillary Clinton and actually played the former president, Donald Trump, during Hillary Clinton's debate prep in 2016. Philippe, thanks so much for joining me. So you have played the former president. In 2016 he was still just businessman, Donald Trump. But in this prep for Biden, and we understand that Ron Klain, his former chief of staff, is actually going to be helping out with that now. Is there something that you would coach President Biden to zero in on when it comes to Trump?

PHILIPPE REINES, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE & SENIOR ADVISOR TO HILLARY CLINOTN: Well, I think you should remember that there are only two people in the world who have debated Donald Trump one on one. And the first one was Hillary Clinton. At the time, no one had done it. And the second one is Joe Biden. And he did it four years ago. And I think by all accounts, certainly by mine, he was scored to have won both of those debates. And the great common denominator between the two of them is Ron Klain. Ron Klain headed up both of those debate preps. And for anyone who's been in the room or knows Ron,the guy knows what he's doing. He knows how to really pinpoint in what's tough with Donald Trump is it's simultaneously easy and incredibly tough. It's easy because the guy just repeats himself a hundred times. We can all kind of script what he's going to say because he's the most predictable creature on earth.

What's a little tougher is that you don't know what he's going to say. You don't know what sort of frame of mind he's going to show up in or more specifically what arc of his frame of mind he's going to follow. So what's a little difficult to predict and what's a lot tougher to practice is to be ready for anything. I know that sounds sort of trite, but you know, when you're debating Mitt Romney or when you're debating Joe Biden, John McCain or President Obama, they're not going to just blow their top in the middle of it. So, you know, if you're debating Social Security, it's going to be about Social Security. You can ask Donald Trump a question about Social Security. And the next thing you know, you're talking about fire and fury or talking about windmills killing birds. So to the extent that you want to make sure that you're limiting, you know, as few surprises as possible, meaning the candidate has thought through different scenarios, you've got to go through a lot. And I know that Ron's doing that. And I believe that Bob Bauer played Donald Trump in 2020. And obviously he did a good job of that.

[14:10:09]

TAPPER: And, you know, we saw the current president coming out swinging this morning saying, you know, make my day and very quickly agreeing to these two debates on CNN and then on ABC.

(CROSSTALK)

REINES: Yep.

TAPPER: But obviously now the other side, you probably just heard Kristen Holmes there talking about how--

(CROSSTALK)

REINES: Yeah.

TAPPER--the Trump campaign wants more than two debates. They've agreed to a third. Do you think more--

(CROSSTALK)

REINES: Yeah.

TAPPER:--debates would work to Biden's advantage?

REINES: I don't really know. Frankly, you know, what we all know about politics, you don't have to be a professional, is that expectations have to battle. And boy, has Donald Trump and the Republican Party done a pretty bad job of setting expectations high for Joe Biden. They keep making it out like he's going to show up and fall over. And look what happened with the State of the Union. He gave a great speech, an energetic speech. And what was their response? Donald Trump said, well, I want him drug tested for the debates because I think he was on cocaine. What else would explain it? So I think they have to be careful. And that was at play 2022. You know - excuse me, in 2020. One of the moments that I remember is people always say Joe Biden is not a great debater. But one of the moments that stuck out was when Donald Trump said about the Proud Boys, stand back and stand by. And that was a really searing moment.

That wasn't because Lester Holt asked the question. That was because when Lester Holt said, are you something about white nationalists? Donald Trump said, well, who are you talking about? Joe Biden interjected and said the Proud Boys. And that's what got Donald Trump to say stand back and stand by. Joe Biden knows what he's doing. And what you're saying about this morning, that Joe Biden is great. The feisty Joe Biden that feels it in his gut, that knows that this is an existential threat. That guy is itching to get into the ring with Donald Trump. But look, I have friends this morning who said, I hate this mano a mano macho stuff from Joe Biden. But that brings out the absolute best in him. I think they could debate 10 times and Joe Biden would win seven, eight or nine times. I think, you know, Donald Trump is not a good debater because he's not focused. All he does is complain about everyone picking on him. That's not what people want to hear. They want to hear about what you're going to do for them, not what has been done to you.

TAPPER: Yeah, a good reminder, you can have some very, very important moments, some of the most important moments during campaign on that debate stage. Just a few short weeks before that June 27th first matchup rematch right here on CNN. I'm sure Philippe Reines will be speaking to you--

(CROSSTALK)

REINES: Congratulations on that by the way.

TAPPER:--again before then. Yeah, it's quite a coup. Thank you very much for joining us today.

REINES: Although you guys need to buckle up because Donald Trump's going to threaten to cancel probably five times between now and then.

TAPPER: I'm sure our moderators can be ready for whatever comes. Thank you very much. Ahead this hour on CNN News Central, mandatory evacuations in Ukraine as Russian forces make significant advances. The U.S. promises that more help is on the way. KEILAR: Plus, the Justice Department says it may prosecute Boeing for crashes involving the 737 Max. Why now? We'll talk about that. And a fugitive is on the run in France after his prisoner transport van was ambushed. Amazing pictures, terrible, terrifying pictures here. The scene playing out like a movie. We'll have the latest on the manhunt ahead.

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[14:15:09]

KEILAR: Donald Trump's defense team has one job tomorrow, and that is to whittle away at the credibility of the prosecution's star witness, former Trump fixer, Michael Cohen. Court is dark today, but back in session tomorrow morning, and Cohen will be back on the stand for more cross-examination. Former Trump attorney Tim Parlatore is joining us now to talk about what is ahead. First, Tim, let's look back a little bit and see how it's gone so far. How has Cohen come across? Has he been credible, in your opinion?

TIM PARLATORE, FORMER TRUMP ATTORNEY: Yeah, I think it's difficult for somebody with that history to generally come across as credible, but from, you know, from what I hear, he has been connecting with the jury and, you know, really kind of telling them the story. So, it is something that, you know, they've done a good job of trying to cross. They've tried to corroborate the pieces that they can and hope that the jury will connect with them on the pieces that they can't.

KEILAR: He has kept his cool as well, which I think has worked in his favor. Does Todd Blanche need to approach this a different way or change strategies to try to effectively ding Cohen's credibility?

PARLATORE: Yeah, if all you do is just focus on, you know, things that people have said before, and just attack their character, you're not really getting to the heart of his testimony. And so, I think what Todd Blanche really needs to do is to refocus on inconsistencies within the testimony itself, take things that he said on direct, and if you can show the jury, you know, really, that he lied about anything during the questioning by the prosecutors, I think that that's, you know, going to be, you know, much more effective than just simply saying, you know, you said this on TikTok about Donald Trump. You said this on TikTok about me or something like that.

KEILAR: Cohen talked--

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PARLATORE: And I think that he does have some good things to go after.

KEILAR: Yeah, there's certainly-He did do it a little bit. We saw that, or we read that. Cohen talked a little bit about how he still lives in a Trump building, how he had read Art of the Deal twice, had deep admiration for Donald Trump. Those were all revealed, actually, in cross-examination by Trump's lawyer. And Cohen said, as well, that he had been under the spell of the cult of Trump.

[14:20:09]

I was just reading it, because obviously there's no cameras in there, we can't see it on video, but I sort of wondered if that didn't make him appear sympathetic to the jury rather than the opposite. What did you think?

PARLATORE: I think it does, because he has to explain why the massive change of heart. You know, he has to, there are so many inconsistent statements in his past, from the time when he was loyal to Trump to the time that he was, you know, antagonistic to Trump. So he really has to explain why that is. And I think that that's something that Todd Blanche should go into much more detail on, on cross-examination, getting a lot more deep than just simply saying, you know, that I was very loyal to him, and then I said that with my family and I changed my mind. I think there's a lot more to it that he's got to unpack and explain the dichotomy there.

KEILAR: So much of what's happening doesn't happen in the same way as what the jury is seeing. You had the House speaker writing to court with Trump, along with Vivek Ramaswamy on Tuesday, the day before it was Senators Vance and Tuberville. I'm sure there's going to be more who's who tomorrow. What does it say to you about where the Republican Party, historically the party of law and order is at the moment, where you have top leaders accompanying Trump to his criminal proceedings?

PARLATORE: Well, I don't know how effective that's going to be for the jury. I mean, I heard that there was an incident where a couple of elected officials walked in and made kind of a bustle, not waiting for a break. And so I think that when you do that kind of thing, it does have the potential for a negative impact, you know, on the jury. And again, I'm a lawyer, I'm not a political guy. So, you know, what effect does that have on the party is something for somebody else to comment on. But I don't think that doing that kind of theatrics within the courtroom is going to necessarily be helpful, especially when you have the judge, who apparently was visibly annoyed by that as well. You know, that also has an effect on the jury.

KEILAR: Do you think that Trump might testify? Do you think he should testify?

PARLATORE: I think it's a possibility. I think he should not though. You know, there is, there's no benefit to him testifying here because the single thing, yeah, everybody talks about the hush money payments and everything else, but the reality is what he's charged with is these false business records, whether those cheques, the annotation on them for legal fees, whether that was knowingly false by him. And I think that that is, you know, one of the key pieces of Michael Cohen's testimony that's not corroborated. So do you really need Donald Trump to get on to say, I didn't know that, you know, is that really going to help him, especially on balance of all the potential negative and unpredictable effects of him doing that? So if I were there, I would be telling him, please do not testify.

KEILARL Yeah. I think we'll all be, be very surprised if it does happen, but sometimes with Donald Trump, anything can happen. So we'll wait to see how this all goes. Tim, thank you so much. Really appreciate your insights.

PARLATORE: Thank you.

KEILAR: And next after withholding a shipment of large 502,000 pound bombs over concerns about how they'd be used in populated areas, the White House is now taking steps to sell Israel $1 billion in new weapons. And Slovakia's prime minister is said to be in a fight for his life. He was shot multiple times in an assassination attempt. We'll have the latest on his condition ahead.

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[14:25:09]

TAPPER: We are following the latest developments in two major wars. One between Israel and Hamas and Gaza and the other, of course, in Ukraine, where Russia is making significant advances in the Northeast Kharkiv region. Today, Russian troops launched another round of ground and air attacks. The fighting so intense that it has forced Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to cancel all of his foreign trips that were planned in the coming days. U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken has just wrapped up his trip to Kyiv, where he announced a $2 billion foreign military aid package for Ukraine and reaffirmed U.S. support for Ukraine. Let's go back to Israel, where military officials say they have intensified operations in northern Gaza and parts of Rafah, which is in the southern part of the Gaza Strip. The United Nations Agency for Palestinian Refugees now estimates that 600,000 Palestinians have fled southern Rafah since last Monday.

Sources now tell CNN that the White House is in the early stages of a potential deal to sell $1 billion worth of weapons to Israel, which could include tank ammunition, mortar rounds, armored vehicles, among other weapons. But just last week, we learned that the Biden administration had put a pause on a large shipment of bombs, 2,500- pound bombs destined for Israel, amid concerns that Israel could use them in Rafah. Let's talk about all this with retired U.S. Army Colonel Peter Mansour. Colonel, thank you so much for joining us. Lots to get to. I want to ask you first about this news that the U.S. is looking at a potential new shipment of military aid for Israel, around $1 billion, tank ammunition, mortars, armored vehicles. And, of course, that's a bit of whiplash after the president just threatened to cut off offensive weapons if Israel goes into Rafah in a major way. So what do you make of this news?

COL. PETER MANSOOR, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Well, I think what we're seeing is the Biden administration is committed to giving Israel what it needs to replenish its stockpiles of ammunition that it's used in the Gaza war.